Defense Line looks very weak after the balance patch

[claytonmorby.3751]

I've seen this mentioned / alluded in other posts on here, but the Defense trait line looks severely lacking after the balance patch. Or maybe rather it was lacking already outside of Defy Pain and Last Stand.

 

Don't get me wrong, those two traits are like the rest of the OP passive traits that are getting nerfed. I'd love for them to be removed completely and be replaced with something else. As it stands now though, I can't find a reason to run Defense.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Hence just another reason why it's a lazy patch. Only anet team could actually thinks making two significant traits within a traiine basically useless is better than leaving them in the state they are now until a better replacement is decided on. Seriously who ever decides on these changes should not be in charge of anything game balance or design related. Not to be rude but it's pretty ridiculous.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well the passive traits were nerfed to 300s CD while the balance team waits on the dev team to conjure up something else and are intended as placeholders.

 

As for the rest of the Defense Line. Cull The Weak could be better, like weakness on crit and a benefit other than increased damage versus weakened foes. As it is now it only procs when the foe is under 50%, at which point it is of little value as they're close to death anyway and Warrior has other more solid ways of putting weakness on someone.

 

Sundering Mace is decent to maximize your CC on Mace/Mace, but the benefit is small and would be better if it affected all hard CC not just Mace CC.

 

Armored Attack is outdated and untouched since 2013. This one could seriously use a revamp. More access to retaliation or protection would be nice, something like gain Protection when you gain Retaliation or something like that and Protection gives you 150 power.

 

Cleansing Ire is nice, but requires you to actually hit, so Blind, blocks, and evades shut it down. Would be better if it did not require a hit to land, Ditto for Adrenal Health. But that would be borderline OP perhaps.

 

Rousing Resilience is nice, but has always been a niche trait. If you spec for it you can have 4-5 stunbreaks that heal you for 3-4k, but that is also getting ramped down in the upcoming patch. The Toughness boost from it will still be nice, but only for small scale. Deathtrap for Zerg play.

 

[claytonmorby.3751]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Cleansing Ire is nice, but requires you to actually hit, so Blind, blocks, and evades shut it down. Would be better if it did not require a hit to land, Ditto for Adrenal Health. But that would be borderline OP perhaps.

 

Yeah this one I thought was rather weak due to the things you mentioned. But yeah they can't give 2-3 condi cleanse just for using burst. Not sure what the solution is.

 

You actually don't have to hit for Adrenal Health though.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"claytonmorby.3751" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Cleansing Ire is nice, but requires you to actually hit, so Blind, blocks, and evades shut it down. Would be better if it did not require a hit to land, Ditto for Adrenal Health. But that would be borderline OP perhaps.

>

> Yeah this one I thought was rather weak due to the things you mentioned. But yeah they can't give 2-3 condi cleanse just for using burst. Not sure what the solution is.

>

> You actually don't have to hit for Adrenal Health though.

>

>

 

No, but such things deny the adrenaline buildup to fuel it.

 

Cleansing Ire USED to be condi cleanse per hit on the LB pulse, but that was a well abused bug. Cleansing Ire might be better if it cleansed condi on nearby allies as well per bar spent.

[claytonmorby.3751]

That's still very situational. Hitting with the skill and having allies around you. Unless they were willing to give it a decent radiusmaybe.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"claytonmorby.3751" said:

> That's still very situational. Hitting with the skill and having allies around you. Unless they were willing to give it a decent radiusmaybe.

 

Depends on game mode and focus really. Same range as Phalanx Strength though.

[claytonmorby.3751]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Depends on game mode and focus really. Same range as Phalanx Strength though.

 

I could be down with 600 radius. It would line up with similar radial traits other professions have.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"claytonmorby.3751" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Cleansing Ire is nice, but requires you to actually hit, so Blind, blocks, and evades shut it down. Would be better if it did not require a hit to land, Ditto for Adrenal Health. But that would be borderline OP perhaps.

>

> Yeah this one I thought was rather weak due to the things you mentioned. But yeah they can't give 2-3 condi cleanse just for using burst. Not sure what the solution is.

>

> You actually don't have to hit for Adrenal Health though.

>

>

 

Yes you **do** have to hit for Adrenal Health. Adrenal Health does not proc if it hits a block, misses, is dodged or invuln'd. The only Burst skills that proc Adrenal Health without the hit actually needing to connect are Full Counter (so long as it gets proc'd) and Longbow's burst.

[Zexanima.7851]

Personally never ran those traits in the first place. If I take defense its almost always for adrenal health and rousing resilience. Everything else is just kinda extra to me.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Well the passive traits were nerfed to 300s CD while the balance team waits on the dev team to conjure up something else and are intended as placeholders.

 

Hopefully. Is this confirmed?

[claytonmorby.3751]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> Yes you **do** have to hit for Adrenal Health. Adrenal Health does not proc if it hits a block, misses, is dodged or invuln'd. The only Burst skills that proc Adrenal Health without the hit actually needing to connect are Full Counter (so long as it gets proc'd) and Longbow's burst.

 

oof you're right. Tool tip doesn't really inform that. That makes the traitline look even waeker.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"claytonmorby.3751" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > Yes you **do** have to hit for Adrenal Health. Adrenal Health does not proc if it hits a block, misses, is dodged or invuln'd. The only Burst skills that proc Adrenal Health without the hit actually needing to connect are Full Counter (so long as it gets proc'd) and Longbow's burst.

>

> oof you're right. Tool tip doesn't really inform that. That makes the traitline look even waeker.

 

Eh I mean sure, technically, but really those passives have just been a hard carry for quite a large number of Warriors in the game. Personally I will be either using Tactics or Defense still as I intend to run with more Toughness post patch to see how that performs with all power coefficients having gone down.

[sneakytails.5629]

I liked Rousing Resilience alot, I was able to dual wield axe, and skip the shield (and take dogged march), and be more brawly and aggressive when running it (which dual axe demands). Of course loosing out on the passive LS, but with 4 stun breaks on my bar I got really good mileage out of RR.

 

I also never really used Healing Signet or MMR because without GS/SH (Axe/Axe-Rifle) I never really had the kiting ability to really use regen to its fullest. So I tended to use the other heals like Mending, and Defiant Stance. (in high pressure situations)

 

I am really hoping that whatever ends up replacing the passive EP and LS end up promoting a more brawler playstyle rather then a regen/kiting playstyle, the latter has already been supported for so long now.

 

I am hoping for less nerfs to RR than the preview notes suggested.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Well the passive traits were nerfed to 300s CD while the balance team waits on the dev team to conjure up something else and are intended as placeholders.

>

> Hopefully. Is this confirmed?

 

Yes, cmc said that in teapots 10 hour patch analyzing stream.

 

And its kind of obvious too, they intentionally made them as bad as possible to basically remove them from being played, until they can rework them.

 

The problem is that the balance team cant make mechanical changes, they can mostly change numbers.

 

I personally will probably not be running defense until i see those reworked traits. Maybe in a core build, but not very likely.

[Infusion.7149]

If you mean for WvW: In a condi heavy meta , dogged march might still be minorly useful against chill/cripple and there's the +180 toughness bonus >75% HP. Whether that is enough to warrant taking is a different story.

In the strength line you could use Great Fortitude instead of Forceful Greatsword, but most people use Forceful greatsword with Might Makes Right for the healing. When you pair either of them with Brawler's Recovery in Discipline there's less condition issues. Warrior's sprint in discipline already breaks immob on hammer,dagger+shield, and Greatsword movement/leap skills.

 

I think Strength, Discipline, Spellbreaker is the best option unless you're running tactics for shouts.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> If you mean for WvW: In a condi heavy meta , dogged march might still be minorly useful against chill/cripple and there's the +180 toughness bonus >75% HP. Whether that is enough to warrant taking is a different story.

> In the strength line you could use Great Fortitude instead of Forceful Greatsword, but most people use Forceful greatsword with Might Makes Right for the healing. When you pair either of them with Brawler's Recovery in Discipline there's less condition issues. Warrior's sprint in discipline already breaks immob on hammer,dagger+shield, and Greatsword movement/leap skills.

>

> I think Strength, Discipline, Spellbreaker is the best option unless you're running tactics for shouts.

 

Or Berzerker for that matter for lulz. Rifle post patch is going to be a lot more fun to play with.

[claytonmorby.3751]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> If you mean for WvW: In a condi heavy meta , dogged march might still be minorly useful against chill/cripple and there's the +180 toughness bonus >75% HP. Whether that is enough to warrant taking is a different story.

> In the strength line you could use Great Fortitude instead of Forceful Greatsword, but most people use Forceful greatsword with Might Makes Right for the healing. When you pair either of them with Brawler's Recovery in Discipline there's less condition issues. Warrior's sprint in discipline already breaks immob on hammer,dagger+shield, and Greatsword movement/leap skills.

>

> I think Strength, Discipline, Spellbreaker is the best option unless you're running tactics for shouts.

 

Eh you're going to be getting cleansed in WvW, you can't afford to have more than a few seconds of cripple or chill in large scale fighting. And if condi meta does return(which let's be honest, as it stands now it will be back with a vengeance) shout warrior is probably going to be a mainstay.