WvW NPCs need nerf

[SuperNix.5061]

Usually i do not make this posts but this is something which is of huge importance for WvW mode in general and should be adressed soon as possible.

 

As someone who has good exp in roaming in WvW i can say that NPCs are the bigest problem right now(aside from mounts ofc),and let me explain why.

 

Even tho roaming scene is quite dead there are people that still do it every now and then and that's when the problem apears.

 

After recent patch and dps nerfs to everything T2/T3 camps are now really hard for 1 person to take especially with mercanary around,just takes way too long as they have way too much sustain and you can't just yolo as they still hit for a lot.

 

Now add any random player that could join your fight vs 10 npc or just afks inside camp as people usually do,some even with golem/bali(why 1v1,when you can 10v1 right? :] ),it makes it so 1 person on his own pretty much can't do a thing anymore,i know mode is made for zergs mainly and i zerg a lot too but doesn't mean it should be unplayable for people trying to solo.

 

In short,doubt anyone wants to fight NPCs for 5 days,you got PVE for that.

 

This comes from a person that used to solo towers/camps+1-2 players on top of it on pretty much any class and any dps build i played so i can only imagine how it feels to an average player or someone just trying to get into WvW,so no wonder why 80% of day on most NA servers is a ghost town,mode is just less and less forgiving on solo players which used to be mayority and now barely exist.

 

So my idea is to either nerf NPCs sustain/dps or to at least improve NPCs mastery so it gives you more damage reduction/more damage against them(that still leaves problem for low ranked or new players that won't have acces to those mastery).

 

Hope this doesn't end up like one of those posts crying about unbalances in the game,just trying to point out a mistake that was made in recent patch from my perspective.

 

 

 

Have a good day

[lodjur.1284]

Golems shouldn't count for contesting a camp, just like mounts

 

Otherwise npcs are fine, I have no issues clearing them fast in a groupsize of 1-4

 

 

[GlazedEntity.8591]

Agreed I thought they might have changed it without putting notes out. Then I attempted to solo a tower and was horribly mistaken. Now why would you nerf the players in a PvP style mode and leave the NPCs with former build. At the least I think dropping their damage would help their CC hits hard.

[aspirine.6852]

On the other hand, arent upgraded camps suppose to be harder to cap....

[KrHome.1920]

I was thinking about that a few days before the patch. A significant number of players will be struggeling with the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Schematic:_Iron_Guards buff and the boons granted by hyleks and ogers when trying to flip camps.

 

I was afraid to create a thread about that because I thaught no one would have believed it, because "lol struggeling with npc mobs, no way!".

 

So yes @OP. You have a point here.

[Len.1879]

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> On the other hand, arent upgraded camps suppose to be harder to cap....

 

Sorry, but this. Nothing against solo-roaming in general, but WvW is a team mode after all. If you can't cap T3 alone, you probably shouldn't. Get a buddy or two, and if you don't want that, stick to slapping Doylaks and flipping T1 or fighting other roamers. That is still a valuable addition to your team.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I've had 0 problems capping. But then I've been playing power Berserker and burn DH post patch. Don't think my necro would have any issues either though.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I've had 0 problems capping. But then I've been playing power Berserker and burn DH post patch. Don't think my necro would have any issues either though.

 

Wall of Reflection + Symbol of Punishment + Sword of Justice + Shield of Wrath

Then step into circle.

 

But I think that just really highlights the strengths of the Burn DH build. Pre-patch it was a challenge on my Hammer Rev taking on a T3 camp that also had mercs.

[lare.5129]

> @"SuperNix.5061" said:

> After recent patch and dps nerfs to everything T2/T3 camps are now really hard for 1 person to take especially with mercanary around,just takes way too long as they have way too much sustain and you can't just yolo as they still hit for a lot.

 

the really hard is now T1.

T3 camp for two non hardcore players it is uppossible. If event week will gone and on non rime time it will be some bug fail...

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Len.1879" said:

> > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > On the other hand, arent upgraded camps suppose to be harder to cap....

>

> Sorry, but this. Nothing against solo-roaming in general, but WvW is a team mode after all. If you can't cap T3 alone, you probably shouldn't. Get a buddy or two, and if you don't want that, stick to slapping Doylaks and flipping T1 or fighting other roamers. That is still a valuable addition to your team.

 

 

^ this..

[lare.5129]

> @"Len.1879" said:

> If you can't cap T3 alone, you probably shouldn't. Get a buddy or two,

I was can't do it before nerf. Now we can't do it in duo. Also I have all npc mastery.

Also on T1 I have 20% chance to die form npc now. And as for me I am more skilled player than more other people in my guild.

So wiht wvw nps is not good.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > I've had 0 problems capping. But then I've been playing power Berserker and burn DH post patch. Don't think my necro would have any issues either though.

>

> Wall of Reflection + Symbol of Punishment + Sword of Justice + Shield of Wrath

> Then step into circle.

>

> But I think that just really highlights the strengths of the Burn DH build. Pre-patch it was a challenge on my Hammer Rev taking on a T3 camp that also had mercs.

 

Yep. But warrior GS has no problems either. I expect that people who sacrificed their DPS for sustain are the ones having problems.

 

It's safer to go full DPS now, so go for it.

[Dawdler.8521]

So... It became more balanced now?

 

Because thats what I hear with every post. Do you want easy mode and being carried by build or do you want a team based MMO? If you cant kill NPCs get more people.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Golems shouldn't count for contesting a camp, just like mounts

>

 

Agree. No risk, no reward. This shouldn't come down to who spent supply.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

@"SuperNix.5061" u are in a process of adaptation, now u notice u can’t kill a mob and suposelly for what I read u die a lot, u were to much dependent of how game was carrying with damage.

 

Tip:

Learn how to lure, and where to.

Play with LoS, that blind spam can be irritating but it’s avoidable.

 

T3 now are a bit harder and take more time it’s just that... they still can be soloed w/o issues.

 

Any chance u tell ya what build were u playing and what’s ur current build or preferably gameplay style?

Maybe that way some player m8 be able to understand why ur having such difficulty.

[Notsoperky.4291]

So, no more just running into centre of camp, spamming a few skills and everything is dead, and you come on here to complain because you have to engage a brain cell now?

Maybe learn where to pull the mobs to, what skills they use, how to split them up if you need to, how to counter, etc?

Still having zero issues here soloing upgraded camps, just need an ounce of 'engage brain'.

Sorry it is no longer as easy for you as most pve.

[monkcrabswamp.9315]

I do think WvW NPCs should be nerfed, but not because of camp. I can still take camps just fine.

 

No, it's lords with Iron Hide/Iron Guards on, which is what everyone slots now. It's just TEDIOUS taking those down at the moment, and takes way too long. (Before anyone says 'bring Burn DHs'-----Anet *supposedly* wants to encourage build diversity.) Either nerf WvW NPCs, or nerf that tactic.

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Len.1879" said:

> > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > On the other hand, arent upgraded camps suppose to be harder to cap....

> >

> > Sorry, but this. Nothing against solo-roaming in general, but WvW is a team mode after all. If you can't cap T3 alone, you probably shouldn't. Get a buddy or two, and if you don't want that, stick to slapping Doylaks and flipping T1 or fighting other roamers. That is still a valuable addition to your team.

>

>

> ^ this..

 

Actually, this is not very usefull for your server. Monkey on TC would literally say they are dead weight and should be helping to do something that matters. Also what you suggest sounds like such poor WXP at present it would not very productive from a reward standpoint either.

 

Also fighting other roamers takes too long now. You lose too much participation for it. Roaming seems like more a waste than ever.

[SuperNix.5061]

I didn't made this post for people to brag if they can solo a camp or not,who is good or bad player,how to fight npc and so on,i made it to point out that NPCs didn't got any nerfs while all power dps builds did which makes a huge diffrence in feel of the game where you are spending more time fighting NPCs then actual players

 

Whoever tried WvW should feel the diffrence, it's pretty much how you would feel pre-patch while fighting without mastery.

 

Whoever thinks it's fine i will ask you this:

 

did you played with mastery pre-patch or not? answer is yes,you did

 

and why did you? cause it's easier and you don't want to fight NPCs but players,

 

also for people playing condi builds,you won't feel the diffrence cause condis didn't got nerfed so posting expiriences while using those makes not much sense cause it's pretty much the same dps

 

also not saying that it's not possible to solo camp/tower anymore,just saying that it takes way too much time,which makes it so that you shouldn't even bother cause by the time you are half way done more players will come and gank you,where pre-patch doing this was way easier and managable

 

someone pointed out about lord and stuff which all go under NPCs category so should be nerfed but it's less relevant from roamer perspective as you won't solo keep/smc,maybe if you lucky you can do it with 2-3 people but usually you wll get noticed and zerged down so think talking about that is irelevant for this topic but it's definetly noticeble especially in smc 3-ways

 

Keep up the discusion,it can only benefit the mode

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Len.1879" said:

> > If you can't cap T3 alone, you probably shouldn't. Get a buddy or two,

> I was can't do it before nerf. Now we can't do it in duo. Also I have all npc mastery.

> Also on T1 I have 20% chance to die form npc now. And as for me I am more skilled player than more other people in my guild.

> So wiht wvw nps is not good.

>

>

 

Maybe your DPS and gameplay isn’t as good as you think it is?

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"SuperNix.5061" said:

> I didn't made this post for people to brag if they can solo a camp or not,who is good or bad player,how to fight npc and so on,i made it to point out that NPCs didn't got any nerfs while all power dps builds did which makes a huge diffrence in feel of the game where you are spending more time fighting NPCs then actual players

>

> Whoever tried WvW should feel the diffrence, it's pretty much how you would feel pre-patch while fighting without mastery.

>

> Whoever thinks it's fine i will ask you this:

>

> did you played with mastery pre-patch or not? answer is yes,you did

>

> and why did you? cause it's easier and you don't want to fight NPCs but players,

>

> also for people playing condi builds,you won't feel the diffrence cause condis didn't got nerfed so posting expiriences while using those makes not much sense cause it's pretty much the same dps

>

> also not saying that it's not possible to solo camp/tower anymore,just saying that it takes way too much time,which makes it so that you shouldn't even bother cause by the time you are half way done more players will come and gank you,where pre-patch doing this was way easier and managable

>

> someone pointed out about lord and stuff which all go under NPCs category so should be nerfed but it's less relevant from roamer perspective as you won't solo keep/smc,maybe if you lucky you can do it with 2-3 people but usually you wll get noticed and zerged down so think talking about that is irelevant for this topic but it's definetly noticeble especially in smc 3-ways

>

> Keep up the discusion,it can only benefit the mode

 

Didn't have a problem with a power build either, might need one extra AA attack at the most.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"SuperNix.5061" said:

> (snip because I have no comment)

>

> Whoever tried WvW should feel the diffrence, it's pretty much how you would feel pre-patch while fighting without mastery.

>

Pre patch it was too easy. Otherwise, why upgrade a camp? More supply that is just as easy to disrupt..

> Whoever thinks it's fine i will ask you this:

>

> did you played with mastery pre-patch or not? answer is yes,you did

>

> and why did you? cause it's easier and you don't want to fight NPCs but players,

>

 

Answer is yes because I would have an additional 2000 points not used instead of 1900. And yes, it’s there to be easier.

 

I would ask you do you have the WvW infusions on your toons? Each one provideS benefits vs lords. If you don’t, that is a non rank based buff anyone can have. And I don’t..

 

> also for people playing condi builds,you won't feel the diffrence cause condis didn't got nerfed so posting expiriences while using those makes not much sense cause it's pretty much the same dps

 

True, but my power reaper is having no difficulty soloing camps. That isn’t to brag as personally, I don’t think soloing camps is anything to brag about, it’s simply to say there are tools that we had before that still work. It may take me 5-10 seconds longer but...

 

>

> also not saying that it's not possible to solo camp/tower anymore,just saying that it takes way too much time,which makes it so that you shouldn't even bother cause by the time you are half way done more players will come and gank you,where pre-patch doing this was way easier and managable

 

Always been an issue. If you can’t take it faster, bring help.,

 

>

> someone pointed out about lord and stuff which all go under NPCs category so should be nerfed but it's less relevant from roamer perspective as you won't solo keep/smc,maybe if you lucky you can do it with 2-3 people but usually you wll get noticed and zerged down so think talking about that is irelevant for this topic but it's definetly noticeble especially in smc 3-ways

 

Keep/SMC lords shouldn’t be soloable. Towers? Depends.

>

> Keep up the discusion,it can only benefit the mode

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> So... It became more balanced now?

>

> Because thats what I hear with every post. Do you want easy mode and being carried by build or do you want a team based MMO? If you cant kill NPCs get more people.

Flipping camps is one of these rare senses of achievement for new players in the game mode. I would not take that away from them, so that they quit in bigger numbers as it is the case anyway (because wvw lacks tutorials and is frustrating as f. when you are new).

 

I mean what do we lose? I can flip a camp without any issues now and I could do it before. It makes no difference. But give weaker players ways to contribute and feel useful! We all benefit from that at the end of the day.

[acidic.4356]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > So... It became more balanced now?

> >

> > Because thats what I hear with every post. Do you want easy mode and being carried by build or do you want a team based MMO? If you cant kill NPCs get more people.

> Flipping camps is one of these rare senses of achievement for new players in the game mode. I would not take that away from them, so that they quit in bigger numbers as it is the case anyway (because wvw lacks tutorials and is frustrating as f. when you are new).

>

> I mean what do we lose? I can flip a camp without any issues now and I could do it before. It makes no difference. But give weaker players ways to contribute and feel useful! We all benefit from that at the end of the day.

 

i believe something is only an achievement if its not easy to do, therefore id say let the new players learn by their mistakes, they will probably feel a better accomplishment after a few trys, rather than just easy mode. ( not that its not easy - if ya get my drift )

 

also i saw plenty new players die to camps even prior patch - its a game mode and we need to be able to learn it, not have easymode and learn nothing except its easy.

[GlazedEntity.8591]

> @"acidic.4356" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > So... It became more balanced now?

> > >

> > > Because thats what I hear with every post. Do you want easy mode and being carried by build or do you want a team based MMO? If you cant kill NPCs get more people.

> > Flipping camps is one of these rare senses of achievement for new players in the game mode. I would not take that away from them, so that they quit in bigger numbers as it is the case anyway (because wvw lacks tutorials and is frustrating as f. when you are new).

> >

> > I mean what do we lose? I can flip a camp without any issues now and I could do it before. It makes no difference. But give weaker players ways to contribute and feel useful! We all benefit from that at the end of the day.

>

> i believe something is only an achievement if its not easy to do, therefore id say let the new players learn by their mistakes, they will probably feel a better accomplishment after a few trys, rather than just easy mode. ( not that its not easy - if ya get my drift )

>

> also i saw plenty new players die to camps even prior patch - its a game mode and we need to be able to learn it, not have easymode and learn nothing except its easy.

 

Exactly prior to patch without the trait it was no fun, now post patch with the trait is much more annoying to take camps I could not imagine without the trait.