Anet.. can you make a DPS meter?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> > > And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

> >

> > If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

> >

> > Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

> > >ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY **MECHANISM** ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

> >

> > I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

>

> The caps is to make it clear that Anet can't be liable regarding issues of harassment under the idea that they should have known what was going on.

>

 

The EULA is rather clear and I answered the "you constantly have to read the EULA", it's both accepted under the terms of the EULA AND they will send you a message or require you to accept it again in case they change it. Unless you see a pop up when you fire up the game that requires you to re-accept the EULA it's perfectly legal and safe to use ArcDPS. It happened when Heart of Thorns was released, everyone got a pop up while logging in to re-accept the EULA, possibly because they made changes to it.

 

They are obligated to tell you when they change the EULA so you can give your consent once again, so there is no reason to worry and re-check it constantly.

[Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> You do realize that arcdps was _literally approved for usage_ by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

 

I am fully aware of this, but it is still prone to changing, at which point ArcDPS may no longer be "safe" to use. If Anet just makes their own it will work from the get-go every patch instead waiting for some _unknown, working for free whenever they feel like it_ 3rd party developer to get on it. (Who may or may not be on vacation for the next 5 years). I'm just saying I'm in favor of an **ArenaNet developed** DPS-meter, and I'm not going to use ArcDPS because I don't want to risk getting spyware from a source I know nothing about. /rant

[sokeenoppa.5384]

Like the idea to add that stat summary that PvP has in the end of every instanced content

[Henry.5713]

A proper DPS meter, one to provide us with all of the information we are craving for, would be a great tool to behold. All though, rather unlikely that we would see anything able to rival the 3rd party meters made for raiders by raiders, let alone a tool that includes the additional information not provided by the most extensive 3rd party meters at the moment.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> > I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

> You do realize that arcdps was _literally approved for usage_ by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

 

If this is so safe, why ArenaNet refuses to protect players using it offering support and help if anything unexpected happens. They literally said they do not take any responsibility for this tool.

 

I find it reasonable request from OP to ask for build-in DPS meter because ArenaNet would then make sure and would be obligated by UA to make sure it's safe to use, compliant and what's important compensate if any damage is done by this tool.

 

Using 3rd party tools is a risk. Always. From DPS meters, to YOLOmouse. You cannot guarantee anyone here that one day its developer changes this tool into credit card data stealing tool. And if it happens, ArenaNet is free from any responsibility.

 

This is why I agree and endorse OP's request for considering creating and support build in DPS meter supported by the game dev.

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

Any software is a huge risk.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > > **CAN** they make it? Yes, absolutely. **WILL** they make it? Who knows.

> > > I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

> >

> > > @Kururu.8140 said:

> > > Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

> >

> > > @Belorn.2659 said:

> > > What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

> >

> > > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> > > Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

> >

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

> >

> > The thing is, **They _already have the meters in place_ for their PvP arenas**, not only do they track DPS, but healing, kills, and defense, I would wager from their attempts at E-sports. so it makes no sense for them to not put the same kind of feature in their raids, if their player base wants it so badly they made it themselves. In fact if Anet put in the feature it could even be set up to give top stat awards like PvP, and support players could also get bonus rewards for healing, raising downed players, etc.

> >

> > There is no real reason why Anet should not put this in, they already have it in the game, so it would not require any additional development.

>

> This makes a lot of sense to me. They could add it for certain areas of the game, including fractals and they could even include lore to go along with it. Like Dessa pops up after the fractal is over with her summary of the "data" she "gathered" during your fractal encounter etc etc. Same could go for raiding and Scholar Glenna, she could just give you a report after the boss fight win/lose etc.

>

> If they did something like this, they could include it in the mechanics of fights, like an NPC voice-over telling you something bad (boss mechanic) is going to happen if you (personally) don't do more damage or you are doing well type of thing, to help people get into raiding easier and judge their performance in real-time without having to look at a bar graph or numbers.

 

I had not thought about that, but, having some kind of NPC either cheering you on, or warning you of doom, could be another great mechanic that could be added to the encounters to give it a more personalized feel! Great Idea!

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @Henry.5713 said:

> A proper DPS meter, one to provide us with all of the information we are craving for, would be a great tool to behold. All though, rather unlikely that we would see anything able to rival the 3rd party meters made for raiders by raiders, let alone a tool that includes the additional information not provided by the most extensive 3rd party meters at the moment.

 

Well the good news would be, that raiders that wanted something more just their style, "for them, by them", could still make it. Nothing would stop them, even if Anet made a DPS/Stat Meter for their Instance content. Anet making a mater would simply help everyone else, like the people that don't want to deal with overlays and 3rd party programs.

[STIHL.2489]

> @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

> Like the idea to add that stat summary that PvP has in the end of every instanced content

 

Maybe even give rewards for it as well, like PvP does.

 

Which makes me wonder if the people objecting to this, don't want everyone else to see how well they really did at the end of the encounter?

[Ayakaru.6583]

Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight no one's gonna notice you have or dont have a dps meter.

Been filling dps and cPS roles for over a year now, no dpsmeters, no problems

[Substatic.6958]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight

 

You mean play the right build in a very poorly balanced game.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> ANet isn't going to make one.

 

Its' not for you to say what Anet will and will not make.

 

Also, Anet already has DSP meters in the game, been there for years, its' just a matter of applying it to raids.

 

> but if you want to just ignore it and bury your head in the sand hoping for ANet to do something official when they won't... Well, you have fun with that.

 

That is exactly what I am doing, good to see you finally catching on, feel free to move on some other discussion now.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @Substatic.6958 said:

> > @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> > Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight

>

> You mean play the right build in a very poorly balanced game.

 

Why aren't you using the build that does a lot of damage, or supply a lot of might?

I'm not gonna queue for a might role and not equip my phalanx strength.

That's like a fireman running in without a suit

[Feanor.2358]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight no one's gonna notice you have or dont have a dps meter.

> Been filling dps and cPS roles for over a year now, no dpsmeters, no problems

 

Sure, but they are an awesome tool to spot problems in performance and improve. Both personally and as a group. You might argue improvement isn't really necessary if you're getting the job done anyway, but you know... increasing mastery is rewarding in its own way.

[Menaki.6329]

I've seen this coming, when they have introduced raids in gw2. Dps-meters are poison for the community in every game. It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps. Well, it's okay if you want yourself to get better, but many players won't stop at this point. Seeing or reading combat data from other players shouldn't be possible.

 

Here is an example for what I mean and where I could vomit:

> @Zenith.7301 said:

>

> REAPER SHROUD IS NOT HIGH DAMAGE. IT IS A DPS LOSS TO CAMPING GREATSWORD AUTOATTACKS AND GRAVEDIGGER.

>

> THIS IS WHY DPS METERS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE. So crap like this doesn't get spouted right and left.

 

 

 

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

> @Menaki.6329 said:

>It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

 

You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

 

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > @Menaki.6329 said:

> >It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

>

> You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

>

 

Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

[Feanor.2358]

> @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

> > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > @Menaki.6329 said:

> > >It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

> >

> > You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

> >

>

> Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

 

There is no problem. There are just players who like doing stuff one way and players who like it another. Why would you expect everyone to comply with your own way of playing?

[Joxer.6024]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

> > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > @Menaki.6329 said:

> > > >It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

> > >

> > > You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

> > >

> >

> > Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

>

> There is no problem. There are just players who like doing stuff one way and players who like it another. Why would you expect everyone to comply with your own way of playing?

 

Yea, I just cant get my head around all the hype and drama. I raid, weekly with my guild team, 2 days, and that's it. If we clear we clear, if we do 2 bosses due to trying new builds and such, so be it. I wont pug, period. Its not my thing and I don't need to subject myself to such toxic people. Now, don't get me wrong, I have met some very nice people in a pug or 2, before I was an "active" raider, so they are there. But most times LFG is full of "need chrono +150LI and leg armor" or something like that. I just stay away. I have seen and been tempted to join the ones that ask for new folks, training, whatever, so its there for everyone.

This needs to go away, bury it and move on folks. Discuss BALANCE and lack of maybe!!! ;)

[Verenhimo.3296]

Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

[jamesdolla.3954]

Arcdps is fine and easy to install. Why would we want Anet to waste time on something we already have instead of working on making gw2 better? No thanks to this.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Verenhimo.3296 said:

> Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

 

I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

 

However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

[Substatic.6958]

> @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

> > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > @Menaki.6329 said:

> > >It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

> >

> > You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

> >

>

> Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

 

But It is caused by the devs. The Druid, Chrono, PS Trinity (on top of silly DPS deltas) causes group issues that aren't as extreme as in other MMOs. The result is very limited group comps for incredibly superior run times for any serious content. Imagine if WoW only had 1 good healing spec, 1 tank spec, and only 1 spec with Bloodlust. That would be horrific and raid/mythic participation would flat line...like in GW2.

[Verenhimo.3296]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Verenhimo.3296 said:

> > Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

>

> I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

>

> However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

 

A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

 

And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

 

Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

 

Same with a quest tracker.

 

Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

 

Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

 

This also works in reverse, WoW still has voice chat within the game client, it's still there, it's not accessible, but the developers pretty much conceded that they'll never make a product as feature rich as ventrillo/mumble/ts3 for people at the time

 

Same reason they've given up on DPS meters, they've become so feature rich and tailed to very specific gleaming of data, some want to just know what killed them in the last 4 seconds, some what to know who dispelled what, at what time the dispel was cast, where they were when it was cast, was it metzen in the shower with the crowbar? etc - I mean you can LITERALLY follow a raid's actions perfectly and visualize it in 2D because of parsing addons (example - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qx7TkFfMKbHm3P9w#fight=1&view=replay // click replay in the top right, then click play in the bottom left)

 

DBM springs to mind aswell, all raid encounters are fully designed with the knowledge that the player WILL have Deadly Boss Mods to time everything down to perfection, same goes for bosses with very strict dps checks, they know you'll be monitoring the raids DPS atall times to reach the goal.

 

 

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @Verenhimo.3296 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Verenhimo.3296 said:

> > > Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

> >

> > I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

> >

> > However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

>

> A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

>

> And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

>

> Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

>

> Same with a quest tracker.

>

> Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

>

> Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

>

> This also works in reverse, WoW still has voice chat within the game client, it's still there, it's not accessible, but the developers pretty much conceded that they'll never make a product as feature rich as ventrillo/mumble/ts3 for people at the time

>

> Same reason they've given up on DPS meters, they've become so feature rich and tailed to very specific gleaming of data, some want to just know what killed them in the last 4 seconds, some what to know who dispelled what, at what time the dispel was cast, where they were when it was cast, was it metzen in the shower with the crowbar? etc - I mean you can LITERALLY follow a raid's actions perfectly and visualize it in 2D because of parsing addons (example - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qx7TkFfMKbHm3P9w#fight=1&view=replay // click replay in the top right, then click play in the bottom left)

>

> DBM springs to mind aswell, all raid encounters are fully designed with the knowledge that the player WILL have Deadly Boss Mods to time everything down to perfection, same goes for bosses with very strict dps checks, they know you'll be monitoring the raids DPS atall times to reach the goal.

>

 

a lot said... I am sure I would have had to play WoW to understand it.