Zexanima.7851 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes dont even have *any* real access to stability right now. The fact that Necro has them *ontop* of having good stunbreaks means that youre one of the least vulnerable CC classes even if we didnt get to the unkillable part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is in fact untrue guardians on firebrand have better access, hence why necros like teaming with them to keep them up, and necros def noticed the nerfs in stab they already had lower stab uptime than other classes noticeably. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Druids with CA have 2 stab on 10 cD each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can get stab from we heal as one on ranger. We heal as one copies and is on 20 sec cd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Revs have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Darkrazor%27s_Daring > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Nature_(dwarf) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many of these have lower cd and higher amoutn of stab,hence why several necros complained about lack of stab, while other necros argued: You got more sustain from tankiness, and cost is less stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People were upset that foot in the grave was in fact nerf so yes necros do in fact have less stab uptime than other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say most classes, didnt I. Funny that you mention Rev when Rev is currently terrible vs CC due to their severe lack of stunbreaks. Guardians, sure, its kind of their thing. And the others you mention are still less than Necro. And of course, you didnt mention thief (no stab access at all), Mesmer (far as I can tell only from random boons, so effectively none), Elementalist (I think Weaver and Tempest each have 1 way of getting stab?), Engineer (One of the Elixir toolbelt skills has one, I think thats it?). Truth is, even if they werent unkillable, Necros have better tools for dealing with CC than most classes do. > > > > > > > > > > > > They really don't. CCing them is still the best way to shut down a necro and it works pretty well still, honestly. Other professions have more ways to avoid eating CC in the first place where necro usually just has to stand there and take it. You can't base a professions ability to deal with CC purely around their stab access in a game that has blocks/evades/blinks/invulns > > > > > > > > > > They really do. CCing them does nothing to shut them down. Theyre far too unkillable for that. And as for other professions having more ways to avoid eating CC, not really, no. Sure, Warriors can just chain-block and have a fair few evades. Some thief builds have extra evades as well (others however have no way of avoiding CC over Necro, worse stunbreaks and no stab, soo). But then you have Engineers who generally dont have any way of avoiding CC other than the baseline dodge. And their stunbreaks and stab access is also worse. > > > > > > > > I'm more than willing to demonstrate core necro's weakness to CC in game if you like if you're convinced its not weak to it. Feel free to hit me up in game. > > > > > > No need, Ive experienced their weakness to CC, or rather *complete lack thereof*, first-hand. You do see a lot of Necros in 2v2. And seeing your string of CC do basically nothing to them is rather disheartening. Hell, the only reason we won is because his teammate wasnt a Necro and kept dying early, and he just let us kill him instead of fighting 1v2 (probably a mistake because Im pretty sure he had good odds of winning the 1v2). > > > > If you're just spamming CC after CC into them then yeah, you're going to get no value. You need to use it to interrupt skills and setup damage. > > Yeah, "setup damage". I mean its not like the whole problem is that the build is nearly unkillable and even a full 3 seconds of attacking him non-stop barely loses him 25% of his HP, if even that. Idk what to tell you then. I have no problem killing them as long as they don't have a FB baby sitting them. They are not pushovers like they use to be but the fights are winnable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes dont even have *any* real access to stability right now. The fact that Necro has them *ontop* of having good stunbreaks means that youre one of the least vulnerable CC classes even if we didnt get to the unkillable part. > > > > > > > > > > That is in fact untrue guardians on firebrand have better access, hence why necros like teaming with them to keep them up, and necros def noticed the nerfs in stab they already had lower stab uptime than other classes noticeably. > > > > > > > > > > Druids with CA have 2 stab on 10 cD each. > > > > > > > > > > You can get stab from we heal as one on ranger. We heal as one copies and is on 20 sec cd. > > > > > > > > > > Revs have > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Darkrazor%27s_Daring > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Nature_(dwarf) > > > > > > > > > > Many of these have lower cd and higher amoutn of stab,hence why several necros complained about lack of stab, while other necros argued: You got more sustain from tankiness, and cost is less stab. > > > > > > > > > > People were upset that foot in the grave was in fact nerf so yes necros do in fact have less stab uptime than other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say most classes, didnt I. Funny that you mention Rev when Rev is currently terrible vs CC due to their severe lack of stunbreaks. Guardians, sure, its kind of their thing. And the others you mention are still less than Necro. And of course, you didnt mention thief (no stab access at all), Mesmer (far as I can tell only from random boons, so effectively none), Elementalist (I think Weaver and Tempest each have 1 way of getting stab?), Engineer (One of the Elixir toolbelt skills has one, I think thats it?). Truth is, even if they werent unkillable, Necros have better tools for dealing with CC than most classes do. > > > > > > Necro has relatively long cds on most of their stab > > > > > > Well of power? 30 sec but has 1 sec of stab. > > > Lich form? ok it has stab but 150 sec really long cd. > > > > > > Also eles have multiple ways to gain stab overload air overload earth gives stab overload water. > > > > > > Unfortunately most of those are actually from tempest > > > > > > chilled to thebone has also a 90 sec CD on reaper sure we got some for each spec but relatively long cds. There is a reason why necros take multiple Stab sources rather than one, and its because most have a noticeably long CD. > > > > > > We take lich for both stab and dmg, because if we don't we gonna get destroyed. > > > > > > Also dolyak stance is 6 sec stab on 30 sec CD for rangers. > > > Strength of the pack is 10 sec stab and fury 75 sec so right there plenty of stab on rangers. > > > > > > Also i heard core ele is fairly weak. > > > > > > One o f the things about ele is they actually got 2 ways of stab core is pretty problematic, which is why i'm guessing folks go for weaver since playing core and tempest is problematic due to short range and long channels and being rather squishy. > > > > > > > > > > Relative to what? Because most classes would laugh at 30 seconds being long. Overload Air and Water do not give Stab. Only Earth does. Thats the 1 stab I mentioned. Reaper has Infusing Terror, 25 seconds, and youve mentioned the others already. Thief has no access at all. Mesmer has a bad mantra and thats it. Engineer has Elixir U which is 1 second stability every 40 seconds (And also a stunbreak so rather redundant) and Toss Elixir B. Core Ranger only has Strength of the Pack at 75 seconds. Soulbeast only adds Dolyak Stance, and nothing else. Yeah compared to them, Necros are pretty well off. > > In some ways though Ele has better mobility than necro with acces to invuln and ability to overload and such plenty of movement stuff with dagger and scepter has better mobility than staff. This is one area i actually feel comfortable with since i tend to play quite a bit of ele andenjoy the playstyle a lot.(tempest bias here) > > granted i feel like dmg is kinda lackluster on tempest, maybe its me since i'm not used to the newer changes. > > Every time they change ele you gotta relearn the rotations. > > If we need to compare classes it should be tempest to reaper since reaper is better than core tempest is better than core prob daredevil has some stuff better than core(access to ability to get swiftness quite often and ability to jump in shadows to hide and seeker arrow) > > There is a reason i went ele man, it feels good to not be slowed down, and i really like tempest and enjoy healer ele in PVP. > > You obviously also felt comfortable talking about necro without having any clue tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes dont even have *any* real access to stability right now. The fact that Necro has them *ontop* of having good stunbreaks means that youre one of the least vulnerable CC classes even if we didnt get to the unkillable part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is in fact untrue guardians on firebrand have better access, hence why necros like teaming with them to keep them up, and necros def noticed the nerfs in stab they already had lower stab uptime than other classes noticeably. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Druids with CA have 2 stab on 10 cD each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can get stab from we heal as one on ranger. We heal as one copies and is on 20 sec cd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Revs have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Darkrazor%27s_Daring > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Nature_(dwarf) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many of these have lower cd and higher amoutn of stab,hence why several necros complained about lack of stab, while other necros argued: You got more sustain from tankiness, and cost is less stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People were upset that foot in the grave was in fact nerf so yes necros do in fact have less stab uptime than other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say most classes, didnt I. Funny that you mention Rev when Rev is currently terrible vs CC due to their severe lack of stunbreaks. Guardians, sure, its kind of their thing. And the others you mention are still less than Necro. And of course, you didnt mention thief (no stab access at all), Mesmer (far as I can tell only from random boons, so effectively none), Elementalist (I think Weaver and Tempest each have 1 way of getting stab?), Engineer (One of the Elixir toolbelt skills has one, I think thats it?). Truth is, even if they werent unkillable, Necros have better tools for dealing with CC than most classes do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really don't. CCing them is still the best way to shut down a necro and it works pretty well still, honestly. Other professions have more ways to avoid eating CC in the first place where necro usually just has to stand there and take it. You can't base a professions ability to deal with CC purely around their stab access in a game that has blocks/evades/blinks/invulns > > > > > > > > > > > > They really do. CCing them does nothing to shut them down. Theyre far too unkillable for that. And as for other professions having more ways to avoid eating CC, not really, no. Sure, Warriors can just chain-block and have a fair few evades. Some thief builds have extra evades as well (others however have no way of avoiding CC over Necro, worse stunbreaks and no stab, soo). But then you have Engineers who generally dont have any way of avoiding CC other than the baseline dodge. And their stunbreaks and stab access is also worse. > > > > > > > > > > I'm more than willing to demonstrate core necro's weakness to CC in game if you like if you're convinced its not weak to it. Feel free to hit me up in game. > > > > > > > > No need, Ive experienced their weakness to CC, or rather *complete lack thereof*, first-hand. You do see a lot of Necros in 2v2. And seeing your string of CC do basically nothing to them is rather disheartening. Hell, the only reason we won is because his teammate wasnt a Necro and kept dying early, and he just let us kill him instead of fighting 1v2 (probably a mistake because Im pretty sure he had good odds of winning the 1v2). > > > > > > If you're just spamming CC after CC into them then yeah, you're going to get no value. You need to use it to interrupt skills and setup damage. > > > > Yeah, "setup damage". I mean its not like the whole problem is that the build is nearly unkillable and even a full 3 seconds of attacking him non-stop barely loses him 25% of his HP, if even that. > > Idk what to tell you then. I have no problem killing them as long as they don't have a FB baby sitting them. They are not pushovers like they use to be but the fights are winnable. The fights are winnable if you can kill their teammate and isolate them in a 1v2 (and even then thats not a guarantee). Facing 2 necros? Yeah thats not winnable unless youre at least one necro as well. They dont die, thats the whole problem. Im playing a full glass build. My damage against normal builds is really, *really* high. And even then, when the necro I mentioned let us kill him instead of fighting the 1v2, with me doing max damage ... it still took 2 of us 10 seconds to kill him. Because thats just how busted the build is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes dont even have *any* real access to stability right now. The fact that Necro has them *ontop* of having good stunbreaks means that youre one of the least vulnerable CC classes even if we didnt get to the unkillable part. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is in fact untrue guardians on firebrand have better access, hence why necros like teaming with them to keep them up, and necros def noticed the nerfs in stab they already had lower stab uptime than other classes noticeably. > > > > > > > > > > > > Druids with CA have 2 stab on 10 cD each. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can get stab from we heal as one on ranger. We heal as one copies and is on 20 sec cd. > > > > > > > > > > > > Revs have > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Darkrazor%27s_Daring > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/True_Nature_(dwarf) > > > > > > > > > > > > Many of these have lower cd and higher amoutn of stab,hence why several necros complained about lack of stab, while other necros argued: You got more sustain from tankiness, and cost is less stab. > > > > > > > > > > > > People were upset that foot in the grave was in fact nerf so yes necros do in fact have less stab uptime than other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say most classes, didnt I. Funny that you mention Rev when Rev is currently terrible vs CC due to their severe lack of stunbreaks. Guardians, sure, its kind of their thing. And the others you mention are still less than Necro. And of course, you didnt mention thief (no stab access at all), Mesmer (far as I can tell only from random boons, so effectively none), Elementalist (I think Weaver and Tempest each have 1 way of getting stab?), Engineer (One of the Elixir toolbelt skills has one, I think thats it?). Truth is, even if they werent unkillable, Necros have better tools for dealing with CC than most classes do. > > > > > > > > Necro has relatively long cds on most of their stab > > > > > > > > Well of power? 30 sec but has 1 sec of stab. > > > > Lich form? ok it has stab but 150 sec really long cd. > > > > > > > > Also eles have multiple ways to gain stab overload air overload earth gives stab overload water. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately most of those are actually from tempest > > > > > > > > chilled to thebone has also a 90 sec CD on reaper sure we got some for each spec but relatively long cds. There is a reason why necros take multiple Stab sources rather than one, and its because most have a noticeably long CD. > > > > > > > > We take lich for both stab and dmg, because if we don't we gonna get destroyed. > > > > > > > > Also dolyak stance is 6 sec stab on 30 sec CD for rangers. > > > > Strength of the pack is 10 sec stab and fury 75 sec so right there plenty of stab on rangers. > > > > > > > > Also i heard core ele is fairly weak. > > > > > > > > One o f the things about ele is they actually got 2 ways of stab core is pretty problematic, which is why i'm guessing folks go for weaver since playing core and tempest is problematic due to short range and long channels and being rather squishy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Relative to what? Because most classes would laugh at 30 seconds being long. Overload Air and Water do not give Stab. Only Earth does. Thats the 1 stab I mentioned. Reaper has Infusing Terror, 25 seconds, and youve mentioned the others already. Thief has no access at all. Mesmer has a bad mantra and thats it. Engineer has Elixir U which is 1 second stability every 40 seconds (And also a stunbreak so rather redundant) and Toss Elixir B. Core Ranger only has Strength of the Pack at 75 seconds. Soulbeast only adds Dolyak Stance, and nothing else. Yeah compared to them, Necros are pretty well off. > > > > In some ways though Ele has better mobility than necro with acces to invuln and ability to overload and such plenty of movement stuff with dagger and scepter has better mobility than staff. This is one area i actually feel comfortable with since i tend to play quite a bit of ele andenjoy the playstyle a lot.(tempest bias here) > > > > granted i feel like dmg is kinda lackluster on tempest, maybe its me since i'm not used to the newer changes. > > > > Every time they change ele you gotta relearn the rotations. > > > > If we need to compare classes it should be tempest to reaper since reaper is better than core tempest is better than core prob daredevil has some stuff better than core(access to ability to get swiftness quite often and ability to jump in shadows to hide and seeker arrow) > > > > There is a reason i went ele man, it feels good to not be slowed down, and i really like tempest and enjoy healer ele in PVP. > > > > > > You obviously also felt comfortable talking about necro without having any clue tho. Wow bud thats a personal attack territory, take it easy with the attacks. I've mained necro since i started GW2 and played pvp before. PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. I'd appreciate if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. Also: I'd advise taking a look at your class(possibly guardian firebrand) which is literally possibly helping carry necro. if necro takes a nerf, firebrand should take a pretty big nerf first so to know how much its carrying or not. After all, firebrand was carrying rev before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. I was testing out a build that was given to me. Reaper has fairly strong aoes on weapon fairly strong attacks and tanky. I've also encountered in the past reaper while playing thief(using sindrener build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. > > Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. If the two are poor players or not built for damage/cc maybe. Core necro is strong but it's not as strong as people are making it out to be. The only two real issues with it are lich form AA coefficient and fear of death life force generation. They are strong/weak against the same stuff as they were before patch but now they're not just free kills. Now they can actually *soak* damage instead of having to wurm out at the first sign of being focused. People just need to try to adapt before knee jerk over reacting to stuff. Condi rev is so much worse imho but that's outside the scope of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > > > > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > > > > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. > > > > Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. > > If the two are poor players or not built for damage/cc maybe. Core necro is strong but it's not as strong as people are making it out to be. The only two real issues with it are lich form AA coefficient and fear of death life force generation. They are strong/weak against the same stuff as they were before patch but now they're not just free kills. Now they can actually *soak* damage instead of having to wurm out at the first sign of being focused. People just need to try to adapt before knee jerk over reacting to stuff. Condi rev is so much worse imho but that's outside the scope of this discussion. P3 engi and another engi I didn't know :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. > > Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. I do though, as i played reaper. Reaper has stab on GS because it has to get close check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > > > > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > > > > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. > > > > Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. > > I do though, as i played reaper. Reaper has stab on GS because it has to get close check it out. no it doesn't lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GewRoo.4172 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS i would appreciate you leave personal attacks out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if you would stop pretending that a class isn't as good as everyone knows it is just bc you are biased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to defend it from people who want it to be deleted, that's the point, not to say it shouldn't get any nerfs. > > > > > > > > You said it has no weaknesses, well it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say other classes don't have many stabs, while its true stab got nerfed, necros got hit too in the stab other classes aren't the only one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ignore the mobility of other classes such as thief and ranger who have more forms of disengage, the forms of invulnerability which guardian warr ranger have more of than others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros are weak to being kited like I heard revs are and guards, they are vulnerable to big bursts like a few others. They are vulnerable to CC, so yes they got weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every class has a weakness, and necro isn't unique in that, it's just that its weakness needs to be increased slightly more again, just not to the point it was before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever played against any semi good necro with an other class but necro? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i played against reaper while on ranger and core necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was testing out a build that was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reaper isn't that great btw. And I never said necro has no weakness, I just said it's stupidly strong. > > > > > > > > Reaper hits harder and has better access to stab than core and better cc and better damage. > > > > > > > > GS hits quite hard and axe warhorn are pretty solid. Core can do very solid dmg in lich but its 150 sec compared to reaper where GS can do solid dmg and reaper shroud. > > > > > > Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. Core can easily tank 1v2s, even scourge can easily tank 1v2s. Both are close to unkillable in 1v1 while still dishing out decent dmg. > > > > I do though, as i played reaper. Reaper has stab on GS because it has to get close check it out. > > no it doesn't lmao Well in reaper shroud but it also has a shout thats on lower cool down plus GS has some pretty strong CC pulls. It also used to have foot in the grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) > > Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. > > The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. > > Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. > > It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. Just bc they do well against you doesn't mean they do well against necro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > > > > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) > > > > Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. > > > > The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. > > > > Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. > > > > It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. > > Just bc they do well against you doesn't mean they do well against necro I'm done talking you trying to antagonize me. I'm trying to prove a point: core necros are fairly slow have 2 evades so sticking to them like glue. Go back to playing guardian mr guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"lare.5129" said: > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > These last two sentences. > Nice. > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. Did you even play Ele nimon when Fireweaver was around? or did you just complain how OP it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > > > > > > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) > > > > > > Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. > > > > > > The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. > > > > > > Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. > > > > > > It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. > > > > Just bc they do well against you doesn't mean they do well against necro > > I'm done talking you trying to antagonize me. I'm trying to prove a point: core necros are fairly slow have 2 evades so sticking to them like glue. > > Go back to playing guardian mr guardian. Mate, you are legit defending the most broken class in the game rn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > > > > > > > > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) > > > > > > > > Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. > > > > > > > > The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. > > > > > > > > Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. > > > > > > > > It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. > > > > > > Just bc they do well against you doesn't mean they do well against necro > > > > I'm done talking you trying to antagonize me. I'm trying to prove a point: core necros are fairly slow have 2 evades so sticking to them like glue. > > > > Go back to playing guardian mr guardian. > > Mate, you are legit defending the most broken class in the game rn I mean, the longer people think that core necro is op the more time I have to farm them The way people build/play core necro right now is not that hard to shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > What's the weakness of this build (DM/SR) again? CC? The meta version of this build is not weak(er than others) to CC for several reasons. On the one hand you have two stun breaks (three if you take the escape sigil; one stun break is a port btw) on a 30 sec cd which is at least (!) average and you have stability on Lich (although the cd is pretty high). On the other hand the build is not as punished as other builds or even classes if cc'ed since it's (passive) sustain is through the roof (life force regeneration from several sources, second life on short cd shroud, Lich, Death's Carapace). Being kited? What does that even mean in this context? That you don't get the kill? This is not your goal with this build and no problem if you can facetank several opponents for a certain amount of time (then again you have a decent amount of skills avaiable that range up to 1200). That enemies freecast on you? Regarding the sustain of this build this should not punish you in mere seconds; also there was no situation in which I ever were picked apart from range by one opponent in the past few days (and even if I am able to abuse LOS or none port spots). Also, a necromancer who knows how to kite and abuse the map is the biggest pain in the kitten I can imagine in this state of conquest (not ranger or thief). > > > > > > > > > > > > I am multiclassing/multicheesing since day 1 btw and you can be sure I will abuse the kitten out of this build so don't talk about bias :) > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its still weak vs mobile classes. Aoe classes and ones with a lot of burst CC do well against them. > > > > > > > > > > The one you are talking about is spectral walk yes When i tested i went with spectral walk wurn and lich because enemies love to stick to you like glue, and getting away is quite tough. I even tried to hug the pillar in order to attempt to get away and avoid the aoes and failed to counter rev. > > > > > > > > > > Necro is very very slow( Like guardian i hear) has very few ports and has a couple access to swiftness. They lack invulns evades and the like,so they are forced to take blows. > > > > > > > > > > It seems like its quite hard to do a lot of damage outside shroud and or the lich. > > > > > > > > Just bc they do well against you doesn't mean they do well against necro > > > > > > I'm done talking you trying to antagonize me. I'm trying to prove a point: core necros are fairly slow have 2 evades so sticking to them like glue. > > > > > > Go back to playing guardian mr guardian. > > > > Mate, you are legit defending the most broken class in the game rn > > I mean, the longer people think that core necro is op the more time I have to farm them The way people build/play core necro right now is not that hard to shut down. EXACTLY!! they are weak vs the same amount of stuff. Necro is weak vs the same things mobility and also cc big bursts. There are plenty of classes that are powerful in burst. I saw weaver with fairly decent size bursts revs warriors with rifles also rangers with pets and bow, and also Reapers. Reapers also end core cause they can pull you in and chill you and start smacking you, since they do better in melee range. He's acting as if necro's have no weakness, they got the same exact kind of weaknesses, its just they also got a few st rengths that when combined as well with support become really powerful in 2V2 which shouldn't be even bothered to mentioned as 5v5 is the official. Necros have also always been vulnerable to being overrun. The difference is, necros might be a bit to strong in application of prot and beefiness of shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > These last two sentences. > > Nice. > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > Did you even play Ele nimon when Fireweaver was around? or did you just complain how OP it was? IS weaver even a thing? just curious. Saw a weaver vs rev fight, was pretty impressive looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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