What happened dear ANet?

[Widmo.3186]

>Guardian:

 

>Echo of Truth (Mantra of Truth): Reduced condition durations from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.

>Voice of Truth (Mantra of Truth): Reduced vulnerability, weakness, and blind durations from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.

>Writ of Persistence: Reduced healing coefficient from 0.04 to 0.01 in PvP only.

>Protector's Restoration: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.

>Symbol of Vengeance: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.

>Blazing Edge: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 18 seconds in PvP only.

>Daring Challenge (Tome of Courage): Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

>Restoring Reprieve (Mantra of Solace): Reduced base heal from 997 to 199 in PvP and WvW. Reduced healing coefficient from 0.25 to 0.1 in PvP and WvW.

>Rejuvenating Respite (Mantra of Solace): Increased base heal from 2,816 to 3,519 in PvP and WvW.

 

>Necromancer:

 

>Signet of Undeath: Reduced passive life force gained per interval from 4% to 2% in PvP only.

>Signet of Vampirism: Reduced passive base heal when struck from 325 to 211 in PvP only.

>Unholy Martyr: Reduced life force per condition consumed from 7% to 3% in PvP only.

>Death's Carapace: Reduced toughness per stack from 20 to 10 in PvP only.

>Lich Form: Reduced duration from 20 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

 

>Revenant:

 

>Banish Enchantment: Increased energy cost from 20 to 30 in PvP only.

>Pain Absorption: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.

>Call to Anguish: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.

>Searing Fissure: Reduced initial burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.

>Echoing Eruption: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.

>Embrace the Darkness: Reduced additional torment stacks after using an energy skill from 2 to 1 in PvP only.

 

You promised to keep an eye on balance from now on and after patch to hotfix things as fast as possible. Nice, you actually did it, ppl found out that FB, Core Necro and Condi Rev were overperforming and after week or so you nerfed them. Thats nice.

But I wanna ask you a question @"cmcary.4762" . Before patch you wanted to make WvW and sPvP with similar balance, with 25 february patch you put same balance changes to both PvP and WvW, most ppl really liked that, and so did I, good work. Things like Revenant Staff 5 which dealt 50% more dmg in WvW than in sPvP were...stupid and shouldn't ever happen.

Yet now you make 20 changes to the skills, and only 2 of them include WvW. Why? You wanna tell me that e.g. ppl dont play Condi Rev in WvW or what? Maybe its not so OP as it is in sPvP?

You made a good step towards balance and now you start going with same sh*t as before, splitting important balance changes between two "competetive" game modes. One patch, then another one, then another one, and after few months ppl gonna discover plenty of broken stuff in WvW which don't exist in PvP, go into forums and start crying as usual, then you'll have to look onto this stuff, balance things again and lose time you already spent once on balancing those things. Sounds stupid? Should, because it is.

 

https://imgur.com/a/tYNexaS < - thats what Im talking about.

[Dawdler.8521]

I thought the answer was obvious.

 

Because its WvW.

[Sansar.1302]

These changes need to come to WvW too as soon as possible.

[lare.5129]

nothing special is happens. Everything is ok.

Feel only that kill npc on wvw is harder.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

**These changes should come to WvWvW as well, at least for guardian and revenant.**

 

Guardian is still overperforming in WvWvW (for 7+ years already) and the most popular profession.

 

Condi revenant is a common spec at least here in EU and very powerful as such. Way too much condi spam considering the build has good mobility, CC etc. Too much in one package.

 

I see the core necromancer as the least overpowered out of these three, because WvWvW maps are big with a lot of open spaces and it is often quite easy to use long range attacks and mobility to slowly pew down the necro. E.g. LB/GS ranger.

[lodjur.1284]

Core necromancer is not overperforming in WvW.

 

Symbolbrand is not.

 

Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

 

True Nature - Demon specifically is actually impossible to avoid, it ignores evades, blocks and blinds, has a massive 600 radius, is very close to instant and has the potential to 1 shot.

 

Nuking core condi rev/condi renegade because of herald would be a shame. Given that the rest of the kit has ample counterplay.

 

The only relevant change for WvW is really the firebrand manta heal nerf which was nice that we got.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

 

> Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

 

Haven't tested Condi Herald yet, and haven't run into too many. Condi Renegade does some good numbers, but is easy to mitigate with timed CC and can do more damage to the Rev themselves then the enemy, even more so when their condis are passed back to them. Key here is people using blanket statement on classes is not good thing.

 

Also what might be OP when dealing with a circle in PvP is not the same in an open field fight, so can agree not everything should be mirrored.

 

 

[Hannelore.8153]

The point isn't that certain classes aren't overperforming in WvW as they are in PvP, the point is that many people want non-zerg battles to be more balanced in WvW, and that means using the PvP balance set for it, because despite the illusion that the game mode is all about blobbing, the majority of fights on anything but T1 primetime are made up of small groups in similar composition to PvP, and the traditional means of balancing WvW purely based upon the blob factor has made small fights a gruelling experience of imbalance in the game mode.

 

That was the point of using the same balance rules for both competitive modes, excepting some tweaks for party versus squad.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> The point isn't that certain classes aren't overperforming in WvW as they are in PvP, the point is that many people want non-zerg battles to be more balanced in WvW, and that means using the PvP balance set for it, because despite the illusion that the game mode is all about blobbing, the majority of fights on anything but T1 primetime are made up of small groups in similar composition to PvP, and the traditional means of balancing WvW purely based upon the blob factor has made small fights a gruelling experience of imbalance in the game mode.

>

> That was the point of using the same balance rules for both competitive modes, excepting some tweaks for party versus squad.

 

On the contrary sPvP feels far less balanced than WvW smallscale does. Most fights in sPvP feel predetermined, most fights in WvW don't.

 

But WvW overall has a higher power level

 

We got trailblazer/dire/minstrel, fully powered marauder (and other 4 stats), durability runes, cleansing sigils (with 3 condis) etc.

 

In addition to this we can put together our stats in much more optimal ways and we have far far greater build variety.

 

In spvp everyone is forced to run terrible stat combinations, runes that do almost nothing and sigils that somehow do less.

 

These gamemodes should not share everything.

 

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

>

> > Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

>

> Haven't tested Condi Herald yet, and haven't run into too many. Condi Renegade does some good numbers, but is easy to mitigate with timed CC and can do more damage to the Rev themselves then the enemy, even more so when their condis are passed back to them. Key here is people using blanket statement on classes is not good thing.

 

Interesting, at least personally I encounter full transfer heralds extremely frequently and have seen just a couple of renegades overall. True nature Demon is really the only part of the class that feels very over the top to me.

 

> Also what might be OP when dealing with a circle in PvP is not the same in an open field fight, so can agree not everything should be mirrored.

>

>

 

Agree, sPvP balance should definitively stay away from WvW.

[Widmo.3186]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Core necromancer is not overperforming in WvW.

It is

> Symbolbrand is not.

It is

> Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

"Slightly" xD. Lemme show you something

> True Nature - Demon specifically is actually impossible to avoid, it ignores evades, blocks and blinds, has a massive 600 radius, is very close to instant and has the potential to 1 shot.

1 shot is too big word, overpowered is the right word

> Nuking core condi rev/condi renegade because of herald would be a shame. Given that the rest of the kit has ample counterplay.

Yeah, big shame. _I play condi renegade, pls dont touch that just because herald condi version is more popular but goes with same overperforming mechanics_

> The only relevant change for WvW is really the firebrand manta heal nerf which was nice that we got.

It was nice, not enough.

 

:)

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > The point isn't that certain classes aren't overperforming in WvW as they are in PvP, the point is that many people want non-zerg battles to be more balanced in WvW, and that means using the PvP balance set for it, because despite the illusion that the game mode is all about blobbing, the majority of fights on anything but T1 primetime are made up of small groups in similar composition to PvP, and the traditional means of balancing WvW purely based upon the blob factor has made small fights a gruelling experience of imbalance in the game mode.

> >

> > That was the point of using the same balance rules for both competitive modes, excepting some tweaks for party versus squad.

>

> On the contrary sPvP feels far less balanced than WvW smallscale does. Most fights in sPvP feel predetermined, most fights in WvW don't.

>

> But WvW overall has a higher power level

>

> We got trailblazer/dire/minstrel, fully powered marauder (and other 4 stats), durability runes, cleansing sigils (with 3 condis) etc.

>

> In addition to this we can put together our stats in much more optimal ways and we have far far greater build variety.

>

> In spvp everyone is forced to run terrible stat combinations, runes that do almost nothing and sigils that somehow do less.

>

> These gamemodes should not share everything.

>

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> >

> > > Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

> >

> > Haven't tested Condi Herald yet, and haven't run into too many. Condi Renegade does some good numbers, but is easy to mitigate with timed CC and can do more damage to the Rev themselves then the enemy, even more so when their condis are passed back to them. Key here is people using blanket statement on classes is not good thing.

>

> Interesting, at least personally I encounter full transfer heralds extremely frequently and have seen just a couple of renegades overall. True nature Demon is really the only part of the class that feels very over the top to me.

>

> > Also what might be OP when dealing with a circle in PvP is not the same in an open field fight, so can agree not everything should be mirrored.

> >

> >

>

> Agree, sPvP balance should definitively stay away from WvW.

 

Saw a guy just the other day doing hanky stuff. Im a rev main and I run invocation to get the procs when you swap legends, It gives you unique stuff like glint blasting tons of fire around for tons of burning. (I believe its song of the mist) Top row, last set of traits and as its late Im not gonna log back in to go look it up right now so im going off of pure memory. Anyhow, he was standing there spaming legend swap within the practice dummies within seconds of swapping and getting the proc so he was getting INSANE numbers. (Something I can't abuse, because the mechanic works just fine for me. And I can't by-pass my legend swap.) However I saw it again this reset and fought it, and yea it overpreforms when it has that slapped ontop of it.

 

As someone who is running full trail-blazers, runes of tormenting and is completely condi I don't over-preform. I Can easily be countered and I only swapped to this because power is a dumpster-fire right now. In realistic terms if you kite a revenant, especially a condi one its going to have a hard time killing you and if you have a cleanse its basically all over. I've been kited to death by rangers, power/ranged is its bane so before screaming for nerfs maybe try taking out something with long range and high burst against one? Or have a buddy run CC as Rev's are kinda screwed now if they get caught within cc because it becomes "Waste the energy and risk being unable to retaliate? Or do I sit here and hope I don't die."

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > Core necromancer is not overperforming in WvW.

> It is

 

You can either just chainstun them til they die, or you ignore them cause they do extremely little, either way not an issue.

 

> > Symbolbrand is not.

> It is

 

Struggling with not standing in red are we?

 

> > Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

> "Slightly" xD. Lemme show you something

 

Lovely video of some guardkilling.

 

You know what else gives the exact same result in that situation

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Precision

 

Lets nerf that too. Clearly it's broken.

 

Rune of torment is really good at healing when there's multiple afk enemies in your AoEs, who could've guessed?

 

> > True Nature - Demon specifically is actually impossible to avoid, it ignores evades, blocks and blinds, has a massive 600 radius, is very close to instant and has the potential to 1 shot.

> 1 shot is too big word, overpowered is the right word

 

"It has the potential to"

I never said it always does, big difference.

 

> > Nuking core condi rev/condi renegade because of herald would be a shame. Given that the rest of the kit has ample counterplay.

> Yeah, big shame. _I play condi renegade, pls dont touch that just because herald condi version is more popular but goes with same overperforming mechanics_

 

sPvP changes would've more or less killed the other variants (specifically the mace and EtD nerfs, rest is w/e).

 

Condi Rev overperforms against the same kinda people symbolbrand overperforms against...

 

> > The only relevant change for WvW is really the firebrand manta heal nerf which was nice that we got.

> It was nice, not enough.

>

> :)

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> "Slightly" xD. Lemme show you something

 

You can't be serious. Now I won't disagree with the topics overall premise, but this... REALLY? You should know better.

 

PS. there is a ton of builds which would:

A. clear those enemies faster

B. with less risk to their life

C. with less button pressed

D. while doing way more impressive numbers.

 

and pretty much all of them are PvE related making many of them useless in WvW

 

Sorry, but bringing PvE rotations to a WvW balance topic is weak and useless.

[BarnacleBoy.6918]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > The point isn't that certain classes aren't overperforming in WvW as they are in PvP, the point is that many people want non-zerg battles to be more balanced in WvW, and that means using the PvP balance set for it, because despite the illusion that the game mode is all about blobbing, the majority of fights on anything but T1 primetime are made up of small groups in similar composition to PvP, and the traditional means of balancing WvW purely based upon the blob factor has made small fights a gruelling experience of imbalance in the game mode.

> >

> > That was the point of using the same balance rules for both competitive modes, excepting some tweaks for party versus squad.

>

> On the contrary sPvP feels far less balanced than WvW smallscale does. Most fights in sPvP feel predetermined, most fights in WvW don't.

>

> But WvW overall has a higher power level

>

> We got trailblazer/dire/minstrel, fully powered marauder (and other 4 stats), durability runes, cleansing sigils (with 3 condis) etc.

>

> In addition to this we can put together our stats in much more optimal ways and we have far far greater build variety.

>

> In spvp everyone is forced to run terrible stat combinations, runes that do almost nothing and sigils that somehow do less.

>

> These gamemodes should not share everything.

>

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> >

> > > Condi herald is slightly overperforming, the condi rev part isn't the problem, it's the Herald part.

> >

> > Haven't tested Condi Herald yet, and haven't run into too many. Condi Renegade does some good numbers, but is easy to mitigate with timed CC and can do more damage to the Rev themselves then the enemy, even more so when their condis are passed back to them. Key here is people using blanket statement on classes is not good thing.

>

> Interesting, at least personally I encounter full transfer heralds extremely frequently and have seen just a couple of renegades overall. True nature Demon is really the only part of the class that feels very over the top to me.

>

> > Also what might be OP when dealing with a circle in PvP is not the same in an open field fight, so can agree not everything should be mirrored.

> >

> >

>

> Agree, sPvP balance should definitively stay away from WvW.

 

Nodes in pvp have nothing to do with small scale fights.

[Dralor.3701]

Think this is fine PvP and WvW can be different, WvW is not 5v5 tiny point control.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah some of the splits def don't make any sense.

[Eramonster.2718]

There's also the limitation of stat options, runes and sigils, food and utility for Spvp. Eg. No endurance food etc. It's a more controlled enviroment. WvW have more plus borderland's bloodlust, more variables in the equation.

[Yasai.3549]

I think they should focus on nerfing Theef hee hee.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

I agree. I think we should bring Spvp balance to Sigil of Cleansing too so it only clears 1 condi on weapon swap. So many of these people clearing my aids spam! How dare they.

 

D: