bravan.3876 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Most of the suggestion would make stealth unncessary clunky and near useless. It will just not work like that in GW2. Also you guys often miss all the counterplay stealth has already. You cannot compare with other slow paced games. The only thing that makes sense and also would be totally enough in my view would be a debuff starting after 3-6s of stealth and disables all dmg multiplier or simply reduce dmg from power and condi around 40-50% (numbers only examples). The debuff ends 1 or 1,5s after the player went out of stealth. This way you only punish stealth stacking and that only in the offensive use for oneshots. What is in my view the only problem. Short stealth around 3-5s for offensive uses and longer stealthstacking for repositioning/ rotation and defense are no issue. Also they should find a way to make missed, blocked attacks and attacks into invuln reveal the stealthed player (make missed/blocked/invuln stealth attacks hit for 1 power dmg or something), there is no reason why a stealthed player gets rewarded for failing and wasting his stealth attack by staying in stealth (you can remove the clunky cd on backstab then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > We went a good 3 weeks without a "dElETe sTeAlTh" thread guys! This is a record high, last time we got this much of a downtime since the deadeye rework! > > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > Here is your tradeoff: you have to invest in skills/traits to maintain it, losing damage potential for your burst. Also cannot contest/defend points. > > > Ideas: > > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) > > The game literally has traits going the opposite way. Also there are no more stealth 1-shots. Even on the lowest base health classes, equip an amulet with any vitality on it and no opener can kill you. > > > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds > > I'm starting to think you're just trolling and I got baited hard. > > > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them > > I'm just going to leave this here... > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab > > > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed > > You cannot be serious. Please tell me I got baited, noone who played this game for more then 20 minutes can type something like this with a straight face.... RIGHT? > > > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. > > Stealth counter: reveal. General cleave/channeled skills still hit targets in stealth. On the off chance you're not trolling, I'd advise to go try the stealth heavy classes before wanting to balance them. (Ranger, mesmer and thief) This Stealth has a learning curve, but it's not broke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > We went a good 3 weeks without a "dElETe sTeAlTh" thread guys! This is a record high, last time we got this much of a downtime since the deadeye rework! > > > > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > > > Here is your tradeoff: you have to invest in skills/traits to maintain it, losing damage potential for your burst. Also cannot contest/defend points. > > > > > Ideas: > > > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > > > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) > > > > The game literally has traits going the opposite way. Also there are no more stealth 1-shots. Even on the lowest base health classes, equip an amulet with any vitality on it and no opener can kill you. > > > > > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds > > > > I'm starting to think you're just trolling and I got baited hard. > > > > > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them > > > > I'm just going to leave this here... > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab > > > > > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed > > > > You cannot be serious. Please tell me I got baited, noone who played this game for more then 20 minutes can type something like this with a straight face.... RIGHT? > > > > > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. > > > > Stealth counter: reveal. General cleave/channeled skills still hit targets in stealth. On the off chance you're not trolling, I'd advise to go try the stealth heavy classes before wanting to balance them. (Ranger, mesmer and thief) > > This > > Stealth has a learning curve, but it's not broke There is no counter play to stealth spikes, in particular at the start of the game. That is terrible game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. > > The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. > > If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. > > Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. Talking about 5v5 not 2v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > > > > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. > > > > The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. > > > > If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. > > > > Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. > > Talking about 5v5 not 2v2. Ah, so why is thief over performing in 5v5? Damage? Mobility/Sustain? On what weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klypto.1703 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 The only thing with these people is anet caving in and giving them their way so they can see what happens when they break an entire class just for the purpose of their whining. They will wonder why it takes hours for a match to start and same with wvw they will complain about population problems after a whole class is condemned and they stop playing. Biggest example of this are ele players so many of them gone and even the only time they were ever useful was that one weekend that they were bugged out into being useful. So it doesn't matter with features like stealth once they completely remove that from the game they will move onto the next thing that kills them and so on. So in the end anet's trade off is to please the players who will never be pleased they will destroy their own game to get rid of players who have stuck with the game so long. In the end its like self sabotage but its their game they can do what they want with it I just won't be playing it at all if this is the direction of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aavataris.5720 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Currently stealth is very weak compared to what it once was. Moreover, today there are lots of skills that disable and penalize stealth. In fact, I do not use stealth as a source of damage (only utility and defends), because it is a functional mechanism for the full killer (which is the idea of the thief). I don't think I need modifications, let alone some so brutal. If you are not a tanke and you are wounded by full damage in a 1vs1, this is what corresponds (in most games): - Killer > DPS - DPS > Magician - Magician > Tanke - Tanke > Killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > > > > > > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. > > > > > > The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. > > > > > > If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. > > > > > > Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. > > > > Talking about 5v5 not 2v2. > > Ah, so why is thief over performing in 5v5? > > Damage? Mobility/Sustain? On what weapons? Mobility and stealth. If stealth isn't fixed then shortbow 5 should cost 8 initiative and break stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. > > > > > > > > The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. > > > > > > > > If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. > > > > > > > > Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. > > > > > > Talking about 5v5 not 2v2. > > > > Ah, so why is thief over performing in 5v5? > > > > Damage? Mobility/Sustain? On what weapons? > > Mobility and stealth. If stealth isn't fixed then shortbow 5 should cost 8 initiative and break stealth Lol, so basically thief should be deleted? Mobility and stealth are how thief remains most relevant in terms of decap and survivability/+1 ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster.8752 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. > > > > > > > > > > The maps are pretty tiny. Necro and rev (both popular have AoE reveal. Necro and Rev aren’t going to be one shot either for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > If the thief tries to permastealth they also won’t have the resources to do huge damage to you. Just wait until they come out of stealth and pressure them. Rinse and repeat. > > > > > > > > > > Can thief be a threat in 2v2? Sure, but not unfairly so. > > > > > > > > Talking about 5v5 not 2v2. > > > > > > Ah, so why is thief over performing in 5v5? > > > > > > Damage? Mobility/Sustain? On what weapons? > > > > Mobility and stealth. If stealth isn't fixed then shortbow 5 should cost 8 initiative and break stealth > > Lol, so basically thief should be deleted? > > Mobility and stealth are how thief remains most relevant in terms of decap and survivability/+1 ability. Thief is by far the best hero in 5v5. I am sure they could take some minor nerfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Kitsunee.4620 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"trixantea.1230" said: > World of Warcraft actually handles stealth mechanics better than GW2. I don't ask to copy/paste WoW's stealth but they could make stealth remove/prevent boons, reduce healing and movement speed while stealthed. WoW stealth doesnt do that anymore lol. WoW stealth just doesnt have 1 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > Agreed. Thief is annoying af. And hard to punish at least in 2v2 arena. > > > > > > > Hard to punish in a small area made for reveals and AoE damage that hits everyone, including in stealth? > > > > Yeah, let’s pretend that thief is OP in 2v2. > > Lol, how small? You can do the same play style as core thief. Stealth, burst, heal, stealth burst again. Sword thief, can port all over the place. You can. Of course, then the enemy team just shrugs and focuses your teammate who dies in that 1v2 you left them in, while you watch helplessly, before they then just kill you, either by tracking you through stealth (really not that hard), throwing condi fields on your smokefields when you try to stealth, or just waiting out the timer and farm that easy win at the end. Sword thief can teleport, but their teleport is location linked. The enemy can abuse that, *maliciously*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitworth.7259 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Please don't balance stealth around the lowest common denominator. Don't ruin the beautiful and fluid accessibility of the stealth we have now by making it so clunky and unwieldy that it's not worth using. The mind games you can play are fantastic and keeps conquest interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > trade off should be 1hp while in stealth? so they will not attack so recklessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Stealth is worst than CC's in this season. It's not technically one shots, but I've seen countless teammates die in seconds to burst rangers, DE's and mesmers. Does it take skill? No. Is it fun to fight against? No. Does Anet encourage silly 100%-0% hp ambushes? Absolutely not. Can't wait for this kitten to get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Can't trigger combos while in stealth. Boom! Fixed, and it's still more fair than what happened to mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Stallic.2397" said: > Stealth is worst than CC's in this season. It's not technically one shots, but I've seen countless teammates die in seconds to burst rangers, DE's and mesmers. > > Does it take skill? No. Is it fun to fight against? No. Does Anet encourage silly 100%-0% hp ambushes? Absolutely not. > > Can't wait for this kitten to get nerfed. Define "seconds". Because the DE shouldnt be killing you any faster than any other DPS build. Mesmers do have cheesy oneshot builds, but theyre not that effective. As for Rangers, most of their "burst" is in the form of Rapid Fire which can be cancelled. Idk, I enjoy fighting non-condi Rangers. DEs, not so much, Im mostly playing 2v2 right now (duh), and its just not that fun to get a free win because your opponent picked DE and turned the game into a 2v1 for you. As for Mesmers, I just havent seen any power Mesmers yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > Can't trigger combos while in stealth. > > Boom! Fixed, and it's still more fair than what happened to mirage. I mean, that solves permastealth for the most part, but thief still has ways of doing long periods of stealth, as do Shatter Mesmers. Its also a surefire way to get griefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > Stealth is worst than CC's in this season. It's not technically one shots, but I've seen countless teammates die in seconds to burst rangers, DE's and mesmers. > > > > Does it take skill? No. Is it fun to fight against? No. Does Anet encourage silly 100%-0% hp ambushes? Absolutely not. > > > > Can't wait for this kitten to get nerfed. > > Define "seconds". Because the DE shouldnt be killing you any faster than any other DPS build. Mesmers do have cheesy oneshot builds, but theyre not that effective. As for Rangers, most of their "burst" is in the form of Rapid Fire which can be cancelled. > > Idk, I enjoy fighting non-condi Rangers. DEs, not so much, Im mostly playing 2v2 right now (duh), and its just not that fun to get a free win because your opponent picked DE and turned the game into a 2v1 for you. As for Mesmers, I just havent seen any power Mesmers yet. Core Mesmers one shot like they always do. Nothing's really changed with that. Rangers use rapid fire to delete health bars, but the most ludicrous ambush I've seen was actually in a 2v2 rank. The ranger was my teammate; stealthed with smokescale, then switched pets and destroyed an enemy(i forget the class, prob a bad necro) with just frenzied attack, the actual beastmode ability. I don't main ranger, so I can't say what other skills were used, but it was an obvious 1v2 that match cause the ranger did it all 3 times. Most likely sic em, Frenzied attack, and wordly impact combo. As for deadeyes, there's projectile hate. But that only lasts so long and stealth lasts longer. The build was sword/pistol and rifle. That build has been out for seasons as well. Same burst, same cheese. Honestly, damage was already nerfed. It's not the burst, it's the little counter play to stealth. At best, you can guess what your opponent will do when he re-enters stealth. For a lot of classes, defeating a burst stealth build is sheer luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > We went a good 3 weeks without a "dElETe sTeAlTh" thread guys! This is a record high, last time we got this much of a downtime since the deadeye rework! > > > > > > > @"Rickster.8752" said: > > > > Stealth is oppressive to the game and needs some sort of trade off. > > > > > > Here is your tradeoff: you have to invest in skills/traits to maintain it, losing damage potential for your burst. Also cannot contest/defend points. > > > > > > > Ideas: > > > > - Movement and endurance-gain is 30% slower in stealth > > > > - Power is reduced by 400-500 when in stealth and for 3 seconds after coming out of stealth (to stop stealth 1-shots) > > > > > > The game literally has traits going the opposite way. Also there are no more stealth 1-shots. Even on the lowest base health classes, equip an amulet with any vitality on it and no opener can kill you. > > > > > > > - Once you come out of stealth you cannot re-stealth for another 20 seconds > > > > > > I'm starting to think you're just trolling and I got baited hard. > > > > > > > - Players are removed from stealth when another player is within 600 range of them > > > > > > I'm just going to leave this here... > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab > > > > > > > - Skills do not recharge whilst stealthed > > > > > > You cannot be serious. Please tell me I got baited, noone who played this game for more then 20 minutes can type something like this with a straight face.... RIGHT? > > > > > > > I am sure others have ideas. Stealth needs to come with trade offs and there needs to be counter-play available to stealth-ed characters. > > > > > > Stealth counter: reveal. General cleave/channeled skills still hit targets in stealth. On the off chance you're not trolling, I'd advise to go try the stealth heavy classes before wanting to balance them. (Ranger, mesmer and thief) > > > > This > > > > Stealth has a learning curve, but it's not broke > > There is no counter play to stealth spikes, in particular at the start of the game. That is terrible game design. Countering a stealth spike especially at the start of the game is the easiest. You know where the enemy is coming from, you also know that their stealth is dropping in a few seconds so they have to engage fast. Once you can anticipate what the enemy in stealth does, stealth becomes actually useless. This is not terrible game design, this is an l2p issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzardome.9184 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 good idea, now we just delete thief and game is balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > > Stealth is worst than CC's in this season. It's not technically one shots, but I've seen countless teammates die in seconds to burst rangers, DE's and mesmers. > > > > > > Does it take skill? No. Is it fun to fight against? No. Does Anet encourage silly 100%-0% hp ambushes? Absolutely not. > > > > > > Can't wait for this kitten to get nerfed. > > > > Define "seconds". Because the DE shouldnt be killing you any faster than any other DPS build. Mesmers do have cheesy oneshot builds, but theyre not that effective. As for Rangers, most of their "burst" is in the form of Rapid Fire which can be cancelled. > > > > Idk, I enjoy fighting non-condi Rangers. DEs, not so much, Im mostly playing 2v2 right now (duh), and its just not that fun to get a free win because your opponent picked DE and turned the game into a 2v1 for you. As for Mesmers, I just havent seen any power Mesmers yet. > > Core Mesmers one shot like they always do. Nothing's really changed with that. > I mean their damage *did* get lower. They still can oneshot most things, but the builds are (generally) not very effective. Annoying though. > Rangers use rapid fire to delete health bars, but the most ludicrous ambush I've seen was actually in a 2v2 rank. The ranger was my teammate; stealthed with smokescale, then switched pets and destroyed an enemy(i forget the class, prob a bad necro) with just frenzied attack, the actual beastmode ability. I don't main ranger, so I can't say what other skills were used, but it was an obvious 1v2 that match cause the ranger did it all 3 times. Most likely sic em, Frenzied attack, and wordly impact combo. > That ... shouldnt be possible. Even with Sic'em, the damage from those is not high enough fast enough to be a proper oneshot. > As for deadeyes, there's projectile hate. But that only lasts so long and stealth lasts longer. The build was sword/pistol and rifle. That build has been out for seasons as well. Same burst, same cheese. > Projectile hate is not a requirement for dealing with Deadeyes, it just incidentally shuts them off. And if theyre a DE build relying on shadow arts, theyre also not really a threat. That build has been out for seasons, and its been a non-viable troll build that entire time, that doesnt actually burst very well but simply has backloaded sustained damage. The best version of DE basically avoids stealth as much as possible, only entering it to fire a DJ off immediately. > Honestly, damage was already nerfed. It's not the burst, it's the little counter play to stealth. At best, you can guess what your opponent will do when he re-enters stealth. For a lot of classes, defeating a burst stealth build is sheer luck. I mean, out of combat stealth is dumb, yeah. The fact that you could be bursted by an enemy you didnt even know was there was stupid. But in 2v2? You know theyre there, its pretty much just in-combat stealth. And in-combat stealth is already weak, since it can be easily abused by the enemy to hit damage on you while youre not fighting back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: What class do you play? Second... are you saying stealth is fine the way it is? I'm confused as to what you argument is. > I mean, out of combat stealth is dumb, yeah. The fact that you could be bursted by an enemy you didnt even know was there was stupid. But in 2v2? You know theyre there, its pretty much just in-combat stealth. And in-combat stealth is already weak, since it can be easily abused by the enemy to hit damage on you while youre not fighting back. The only class of the 3 that I mentioned that performs well in 2v2 is Ranger. There's already threads about it. I'm specifically talking about stealth. In 5v5, glassy stealth burst builds (DE's & Mesmers) are quite prevalent. I have no problem with the damage. There's so much mitigation nowadays including retal, aiges, prot, toughness, evades, projectile hate, etc. But if you don't see your enemy, or have a chance to react to their attacks, all that mitigation is irrelevant. That's the problem. And I think that's the main point of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Stallic.2397" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > What class do you play? Second... are you saying stealth is fine the way it is? I'm confused as to what you argument is. > Currently? Core Engineer. And Im saying that stealth is split. Out of combat, i.e. "burst from an enemy you didnt even know was there", its stupid and unfun. In-combat, its actually rather useless unless youre Mesmer (who has Clones that remove both of in-combat stealths critical weakness. > > I mean, out of combat stealth is dumb, yeah. The fact that you could be bursted by an enemy you didnt even know was there was stupid. But in 2v2? You know theyre there, its pretty much just in-combat stealth. And in-combat stealth is already weak, since it can be easily abused by the enemy to hit damage on you while youre not fighting back. > > The only class of the 3 that I mentioned that performs well in 2v2 is Ranger. There's already threads about it. I'm specifically talking about stealth. In 5v5, glassy stealth burst builds (DE's & Mesmers) are quite prevalent. > Prevalent doesnt mean theyre good. DE has been prevalent for a while because people like it (for some reason), even though the build has never been more than a troll build. Shatter Mesmer is better, but not by much. > I have no problem with the damage. There's so much mitigation nowadays including retal, aiges, prot, toughness, evades, projectile hate, etc. But if you don't see your enemy, or have a chance to react to their attacks, all that mitigation is irrelevant. That's the problem. And I think that's the main point of this thread. > Unfortunately no. For some reason, rather than fixing out of combat stealth and making in-combat stealth stronger, people just want to nerf (the already underperforming) in-combat stealth most of all. Practically none of their "solutions" do anything about the out of combat stealth. They just obliterate in-combat stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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