Lily.1935 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 So in my endless research into the necromancer and the ritualist in there connections I stumbled across something I completely forgot about. And its kinda messing with my head. I'm low key having an existential crisis here over this and it really does make sense. From the suggestion of the Scourge elite specialization and of the Minions there is a lot of evidence that the necromancer's magic is pretty entwined with the realm of Torment.. [stygian](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stygian) are partially formed demons mothered by the [Dreadspawn Maw](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dreadspawn_Maw) in the [stygian Veil](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stygian_Veil)... Combine this with the fact we can breach the Realm of torment at any time we like with [Ghastly Breach](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Breach) this suggests pretty heavily we're using Demon magic... Our Shadow fiend looks like creatures from the Underworld, but that's not as major as the idea that we're **LITERALLY USING DEMON MAGIC!** **More than 250 years ago. This happened. Probably.** Ritualist: _Hey necromancer... could you not reanimate corpses?_ Necromancer: _Whatever NERD! I do what I want._ Ritualist: _You're messing with powers beyond your comprehension. Let me teach you our ways least we become the victims of Demons._ Necromancer: _You sound like my Mom. UGHHH! Summoning spirits is so lame. They don't walk around. And who wants to sit around in a dusty monastery for ages learning about how great Spear Pirate girl was?_ Ritualist: _THATS LADY GLAIVE YOU UN EDUCATED~~.... You know what... Forget it. Get eaten by demons._ Necromancer: _Later nerd. Say hi to grandma for me!_ Ritualist: _Did you reanimate grandma?!_ Necromancer: _You can't prove nothin!_ [Thus a rivalry was born] Necromancer's magic most certainly is connected to the mists. This isn't a question in my mind. I just didn't think It was so sinister in nature. I suppose I should of suspected this. But wow... Are we going to become Diobolists? Are we going to embrace our Demon summoning magic? Or are we going to eventually listen to the Ritualists and use less risky death magics... Ho boy... I wish Anet would give us more lore on these things. Like where do these spells and magics come from. Because this might be true, but if it is it really true there are a lot of interesting ideas I can come up with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I don't understand your obsession... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 There are multiple kinds of demons in Guild Wars lore. We have Margonites and those other Abaddon demons (like The Hunger, who ate Kormir's eyes). They use all kinds of magic. And then we have the Oni in Cantha. They primarily use Shadow Magic, which isn't something Necromancers commonly use. What kind of demon would you like your elite spec to draw their powers from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Fueki.4753" said: > There are multiple kinds of demons in Guild Wars lore. > We have Margonites and those other Abaddon demons (like The Hunger, who ate Kormir's eyes). They use all kinds of magic. > And then we have the Oni in Cantha. They primarily use Shadow Magic, which isn't something Necromancers commonly use. > > What kind of demon would you like your elite spec to draw their powers from? Stygians. Obviously. I'd think it would be fitting to confirm we've been constructing proto Stygians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. > > Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. > As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. > All the god realms are connected. But Necromancer has yet to show they can channel from Dwayna's, Melandru's or Lyssa's realm. I think they could channel from the Fissure of Woe. But I'm not sure. As for Rev. Yes, the rev can channel from them. They can also channel from the hall of heroes and from Fractals. They're not limited. I'm more talking about the Prospect that how the Necromancer's magic works seems to indicate they're consorting with demons. Which is metal as heck. But also means I'd like my Diabolist Minion master elite spec. My old Deathcap design would actually work almost perfectly with it if we just change some traits and skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 relax lily. it'll be ok. there there. (shh ok everyone leave now) jkjk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > > > > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > > > > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. > > > > Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. > > As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. > > > > All the god realms are connected. But Necromancer has yet to show they can channel from Dwayna's, Melandru's or Lyssa's realm. I think they could channel from the Fissure of Woe. But I'm not sure. As for Rev. Yes, the rev can channel from them. They can also channel from the hall of heroes and from Fractals. They're not limited. I'm more talking about the Prospect that how the Necromancer's magic works seems to indicate they're consorting with demons. Which is metal as heck. But also means I'd like my Diabolist Minion master elite spec. My old Deathcap design would actually work almost perfectly with it if we just change some traits and skills. True, Well they're connected in a sense that they're all part of the mists. In regard to the Realm of Torment and the Underworld though that connection is very literal.. they are physically connected together via the Bone Pits not just connected like the God Realms are. I guess you could say the Realm of Torment is technically part of the Underworld in that sense although it is regarded as it's own realm. It's probably similar to the Mad Kings's Realm which is also part of the underworld but regarded as it's own Realm, although the Mad King's Realm isnt physically connected to the Underworld like the Realm of Torment is. If you factor in Gw1's duel profession system though (which Gw2 was originally planned to have as well) then in terms of lore there isn't anything stopping anyone from taking on more than one profession and accessing different kinds of magics. A Gw2 example exists too with Rytlock class swapping and becoming a Revenant. Although this is something we players cannot do in the game it's a limitation based on gameplay design rather than in game lore. In theory any NPC character could study more than one profession and access skills/abilities from both although this isn't done largely to avoid player envy I expect. If a bunch of duel classed NPC's were running around players would be asking why can't I do that.. it's not fair. So basically Necromancers are not limited to only the Dark arts of their professions but rather they choose to specialize in it much like other professions do with their own fields. Actually now that I think about it if you do want a in game example of this being technically possible in this world then look at High Priestess Amala from the Twilight Oasis Fractal. She goes through multiple phases based on the various Gods which allow her to access powers and abilities from most of the different professions. She is a Dervish which isn't a profession in Gw2 but is in Gw1 and we never had the ability to invoke multiple Gods back then either for mechancial reasons not lore ones. Each God is typically assigned to a profession or element too, Warriors worshipped Balthazar, Necromancers Grenth, Mesmers Lyssa etc So when this boss does invoke a different god she is effectively class swapping on the fly and functioning more or less like a Gw1 Dervish with the ability to change their second profession and skills mid battle. I expect in her years training as a Dervish she would have learned abiltiies from other professions as well to fully realize her potential when invoking Gods which would make sense since duel professions were more common place back in this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > > > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > > > > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > > > > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > > > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > > > > > > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > > > > > > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. > > > > > > Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. > > > As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. > > > > > > > All the god realms are connected. But Necromancer has yet to show they can channel from Dwayna's, Melandru's or Lyssa's realm. I think they could channel from the Fissure of Woe. But I'm not sure. As for Rev. Yes, the rev can channel from them. They can also channel from the hall of heroes and from Fractals. They're not limited. I'm more talking about the Prospect that how the Necromancer's magic works seems to indicate they're consorting with demons. Which is metal as heck. But also means I'd like my Diabolist Minion master elite spec. My old Deathcap design would actually work almost perfectly with it if we just change some traits and skills. > > True, Well they're connected in a sense that they're all part of the mists. > In regard to the Realm of Torment and the Underworld though that connection is very literal.. they are physically connected together via the Bone Pits not just connected like the God Realms are. > I guess you could say the Realm of Torment is technically part of the Underworld in that sense although it is regarded as it's own realm. > It's probably similar to the Mad Kings's Realm which is also part of the underworld but regarded as it's own Realm, although the Mad King's Realm isnt physically connected to the Underworld like the Realm of Torment is. > > If you factor in Gw1's duel profession system though (which Gw2 was originally planned to have as well) then in terms of lore there isn't anything stopping anyone from taking on more than one profession and accessing different kinds of magics. > A Gw2 example exists too with Rytlock class swapping and becoming a Revenant. > Although this is something we players cannot do in the game it's a limitation based on gameplay design rather than in game lore. > In theory any NPC character could study more than one profession and access skills/abilities from both although this isn't done largely to avoid player envy I expect. > If a bunch of duel classed NPC's were running around players would be asking why can't I do that.. it's not fair. > > So basically Necromancers are not limited to only the Dark arts of their professions but rather they choose to specialize in it much like other professions do with their own fields. > > Actually now that I think about it if you do want a in game example of this being technically possible in this world then look at High Priestess Amala from the Twilight Oasis Fractal. > She goes through multiple phases based on the various Gods which allow her to access powers and abilities from most of the different professions. > She is a Dervish which isn't a profession in Gw2 but is in Gw1 and we never had the ability to invoke multiple Gods back then either for mechancial reasons not lore ones. > Each God is typically assigned to a profession or element too, Warriors worshipped Balthazar, Necromancers Grenth, Mesmers Lyssa etc > So when this boss does invoke a different god she is effectively class swapping on the fly and functioning more or less like a Gw1 Dervish with the ability to change their second profession and skills mid battle. > I expect in her years training as a Dervish she would have learned abiltiies from other professions as well to fully realize her potential when invoking Gods which would make sense since duel professions were more common place back in this time. I do very much miss duel professions. It was a lot of fun, but gw2 is not set up for that. If a Guild wars 3 ever comes out it would be nice for them to learn from the mistakes of GW1 and GW2. The removal of Energy was a mistake. Removal of Adrenaline(Or Rage as its called in other games) I'm not super convinced that's a mistake, but I digress. The Removal of the Holy Trinity I will admit probably was a mistake. Seeing as they put it back in. Like, Taunt should probably increase your Aggro on a boss and Fear should probably lower it so these are a bit more useful as opposed to just how big your toughness is. The widely varying Health pools is probably a mistake. The Defensive mechanic Toughness is absolutely a mistake and the Dodge mechanic is way too powerful. Necromancer's do have a specialization in Dark magic though. They would struggle with the magic Guardian uses for example, or elemental magic. Not saying they couldn't ever use it, but their proficiency would be lacking. Either way, I'm all on the Diabolist hype train. Choo choo! Getting ritualist would be dope too. I'd be happy with either, but I really want a Minion master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > > > > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > > > > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > > > > > > > > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > > > > > > > > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. > > > > > > > > Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. > > > > As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. > > > > > > > > > > All the god realms are connected. But Necromancer has yet to show they can channel from Dwayna's, Melandru's or Lyssa's realm. I think they could channel from the Fissure of Woe. But I'm not sure. As for Rev. Yes, the rev can channel from them. They can also channel from the hall of heroes and from Fractals. They're not limited. I'm more talking about the Prospect that how the Necromancer's magic works seems to indicate they're consorting with demons. Which is metal as heck. But also means I'd like my Diabolist Minion master elite spec. My old Deathcap design would actually work almost perfectly with it if we just change some traits and skills. > > > > True, Well they're connected in a sense that they're all part of the mists. > > In regard to the Realm of Torment and the Underworld though that connection is very literal.. they are physically connected together via the Bone Pits not just connected like the God Realms are. > > I guess you could say the Realm of Torment is technically part of the Underworld in that sense although it is regarded as it's own realm. > > It's probably similar to the Mad Kings's Realm which is also part of the underworld but regarded as it's own Realm, although the Mad King's Realm isnt physically connected to the Underworld like the Realm of Torment is. > > > > If you factor in Gw1's duel profession system though (which Gw2 was originally planned to have as well) then in terms of lore there isn't anything stopping anyone from taking on more than one profession and accessing different kinds of magics. > > A Gw2 example exists too with Rytlock class swapping and becoming a Revenant. > > Although this is something we players cannot do in the game it's a limitation based on gameplay design rather than in game lore. > > In theory any NPC character could study more than one profession and access skills/abilities from both although this isn't done largely to avoid player envy I expect. > > If a bunch of duel classed NPC's were running around players would be asking why can't I do that.. it's not fair. > > > > So basically Necromancers are not limited to only the Dark arts of their professions but rather they choose to specialize in it much like other professions do with their own fields. > > > > Actually now that I think about it if you do want a in game example of this being technically possible in this world then look at High Priestess Amala from the Twilight Oasis Fractal. > > She goes through multiple phases based on the various Gods which allow her to access powers and abilities from most of the different professions. > > She is a Dervish which isn't a profession in Gw2 but is in Gw1 and we never had the ability to invoke multiple Gods back then either for mechancial reasons not lore ones. > > Each God is typically assigned to a profession or element too, Warriors worshipped Balthazar, Necromancers Grenth, Mesmers Lyssa etc > > So when this boss does invoke a different god she is effectively class swapping on the fly and functioning more or less like a Gw1 Dervish with the ability to change their second profession and skills mid battle. > > I expect in her years training as a Dervish she would have learned abiltiies from other professions as well to fully realize her potential when invoking Gods which would make sense since duel professions were more common place back in this time. > > I do very much miss duel professions. It was a lot of fun, but gw2 is not set up for that. If a Guild wars 3 ever comes out it would be nice for them to learn from the mistakes of GW1 and GW2. The removal of Energy was a mistake. Removal of Adrenaline(Or Rage as its called in other games) I'm not super convinced that's a mistake, but I digress. The Removal of the Holy Trinity I will admit probably was a mistake. Seeing as they put it back in. Like, Taunt should probably increase your Aggro on a boss and Fear should probably lower it so these are a bit more useful as opposed to just how big your toughness is. The widely varying Health pools is probably a mistake. The Defensive mechanic Toughness is absolutely a mistake and the Dodge mechanic is way too powerful. > > Necromancer's do have a specialization in Dark magic though. They would struggle with the magic Guardian uses for example, or elemental magic. Not saying they couldn't ever use it, but their proficiency would be lacking. Either way, I'm all on the Diabolist hype train. Choo choo! Getting ritualist would be dope too. I'd be happy with either, but I really want a Minion master. I'd kinda like the Ritualist to be more of a Rev thing, spiritmaster with a sort of summon/minion style gameplay element to it. I don't know what i'd want to do with Necromancers in Cantha.. perhaps some kind of fanatic/cultist theme would work for them over there. Maybe when we go there we find out the Empire outlawed Necromancy or something because of fanatics experimenting with demon magic and using old damaged Demonic Summoning Stones to conjure and attempt to control Oni which ultimately failed causing the Oni to escape into the city and cause all kinds of mayhem. Perhaps our new spec could have Summoning stones as it's utilities, giving us the ability to summon powerful demonic allies but only for short periods of time mimicing the Elementalist summon rather than minions. Difference between Summons and Minions would then be that Minions are weaker and permanent but Summons are temporary and stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Honestly Id love a warlock spec for Necromancer..... I did a write up of what it could be here~ https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35671/elite-spec-idea-the-demonologist-occultist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 This is another thread dreaming about an OP-looking theme and moody, emo backstory / lore that _somehow_ becomes a balanced elite profession. Lilly, describe what exactly will the elite _do?_ Is it a Minionmancer and, if it is, how is it different than any other MM build and not be OP or lag the servers from too many AIs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > Necromancers are dark anti-heroes that exploit death, blood, soul and I guess demon magic too. > > > > > > > Revenant's also tap into Demon magic when they channel Mallyx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end it doesn't matter where their power comes from it's how they use it that defines them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Realm of Torment itself is directly connected to the Underworld which is a God realm and Grenth despite being a God of Death isn't considered evil, rather he is worshipped by mortals. > > > > > > > This mists in general is full of different realms some seen as good others bad but all part of the same mists.. The Gods themselves are mist beings as far as we know so they may have been born/created from there, and they brought Humans to Tyria through the mists so Humans could also have come from the mists as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not talking about Revenant. They're basically blue mages. They can channel basically any legendary being from the mists within reason... They don't have to be dead. They could channel Arkk for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is more something I've picked up on. Necromancer's are calling powers from the Mists, but they're more specialized in their focus. I just thought it was mostly from the Underworld for the longest time. I didn't think they would have gotten a good chunk of their power from the realm of Torment. > > > > > > > > > > Underworld and Realm of Torment are directly connected as I pointed out before so it makes sense if they can channel from one they could also channel from the other as well if they know how. > > > > > As far as Demons go though they exist in both places too, The Spawning Pools for example are a region of the Underworld that is involved in birthing Demons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the god realms are connected. But Necromancer has yet to show they can channel from Dwayna's, Melandru's or Lyssa's realm. I think they could channel from the Fissure of Woe. But I'm not sure. As for Rev. Yes, the rev can channel from them. They can also channel from the hall of heroes and from Fractals. They're not limited. I'm more talking about the Prospect that how the Necromancer's magic works seems to indicate they're consorting with demons. Which is metal as heck. But also means I'd like my Diabolist Minion master elite spec. My old Deathcap design would actually work almost perfectly with it if we just change some traits and skills. > > > > > > True, Well they're connected in a sense that they're all part of the mists. > > > In regard to the Realm of Torment and the Underworld though that connection is very literal.. they are physically connected together via the Bone Pits not just connected like the God Realms are. > > > I guess you could say the Realm of Torment is technically part of the Underworld in that sense although it is regarded as it's own realm. > > > It's probably similar to the Mad Kings's Realm which is also part of the underworld but regarded as it's own Realm, although the Mad King's Realm isnt physically connected to the Underworld like the Realm of Torment is. > > > > > > If you factor in Gw1's duel profession system though (which Gw2 was originally planned to have as well) then in terms of lore there isn't anything stopping anyone from taking on more than one profession and accessing different kinds of magics. > > > A Gw2 example exists too with Rytlock class swapping and becoming a Revenant. > > > Although this is something we players cannot do in the game it's a limitation based on gameplay design rather than in game lore. > > > In theory any NPC character could study more than one profession and access skills/abilities from both although this isn't done largely to avoid player envy I expect. > > > If a bunch of duel classed NPC's were running around players would be asking why can't I do that.. it's not fair. > > > > > > So basically Necromancers are not limited to only the Dark arts of their professions but rather they choose to specialize in it much like other professions do with their own fields. > > > > > > Actually now that I think about it if you do want a in game example of this being technically possible in this world then look at High Priestess Amala from the Twilight Oasis Fractal. > > > She goes through multiple phases based on the various Gods which allow her to access powers and abilities from most of the different professions. > > > She is a Dervish which isn't a profession in Gw2 but is in Gw1 and we never had the ability to invoke multiple Gods back then either for mechancial reasons not lore ones. > > > Each God is typically assigned to a profession or element too, Warriors worshipped Balthazar, Necromancers Grenth, Mesmers Lyssa etc > > > So when this boss does invoke a different god she is effectively class swapping on the fly and functioning more or less like a Gw1 Dervish with the ability to change their second profession and skills mid battle. > > > I expect in her years training as a Dervish she would have learned abiltiies from other professions as well to fully realize her potential when invoking Gods which would make sense since duel professions were more common place back in this time. > > > > I do very much miss duel professions. It was a lot of fun, but gw2 is not set up for that. If a Guild wars 3 ever comes out it would be nice for them to learn from the mistakes of GW1 and GW2. The removal of Energy was a mistake. Removal of Adrenaline(Or Rage as its called in other games) I'm not super convinced that's a mistake, but I digress. The Removal of the Holy Trinity I will admit probably was a mistake. Seeing as they put it back in. Like, Taunt should probably increase your Aggro on a boss and Fear should probably lower it so these are a bit more useful as opposed to just how big your toughness is. The widely varying Health pools is probably a mistake. The Defensive mechanic Toughness is absolutely a mistake and the Dodge mechanic is way too powerful. > > > > Necromancer's do have a specialization in Dark magic though. They would struggle with the magic Guardian uses for example, or elemental magic. Not saying they couldn't ever use it, but their proficiency would be lacking. Either way, I'm all on the Diabolist hype train. Choo choo! Getting ritualist would be dope too. I'd be happy with either, but I really want a Minion master. > > I'd kinda like the Ritualist to be more of a Rev thing, spiritmaster with a sort of summon/minion style gameplay element to it. > I don't know what i'd want to do with Necromancers in Cantha.. perhaps some kind of fanatic/cultist theme would work for them over there. > Maybe when we go there we find out the Empire outlawed Necromancy or something because of fanatics experimenting with demon magic and using old damaged Demonic Summoning Stones to conjure and attempt to control Oni which ultimately failed causing the Oni to escape into the city and cause all kinds of mayhem. > Perhaps our new spec could have Summoning stones as it's utilities, giving us the ability to summon powerful demonic allies but only for short periods of time mimicing the Elementalist summon rather than minions. > > Difference between Summons and Minions would then be that Minions are weaker and permanent but Summons are temporary and stronger. Rev is poorly designed for a summoner spec. Unfortunately. As much as I'd love more summoners because I do love my mini armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > Honestly Id love a warlock spec for Necromancer..... > I did a write up of what it could be here~ https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35671/elite-spec-idea-the-demonologist-occultist So the Name Diabolist works extremely well because of its suggestions in the name. The name suggests that they deal in Witchcraft and sorcery involving demonic magics and summoning. Its basically just a cleaner way to say Demonologist as you put it. Occultist could work as a name too. Although Occultist is a bit less specific in the suggestions of magic it could use. As for your Elite spec, I've got a few bones to pick at it. First off, You don't want to replace the current minions. People do like the utility minions and since GW2 is a limited skills game, we really don't want just "Strictly better minion utilities." So what you would want is a Minion Master elite spec that uses their Life force to conjure minions. Some have suggested each individual f1-5 should each summon a different minion. I Say Absolutely not! Our Utility skills for a Minion Master elite spec almost all need to be Support skills in some way since Minion Masters were a sort of party support. This way you can have some options. Flood the field with your Utility minions and your Life force minions to play as a zerg or you can laser focus in on the Life force Minions and support their actions. You want to give the players options not obsolete old choices. Take a look at my Old [Deathcap](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/49593/the-deathcap-minion-master-elite-spec#latest) post from a few years ago. Now you might not agree with its design flavor, and that's perfectly okay. but it does prototype the general ideas behind what a Minion master elite spec should look like. As for the Focus main hand idea... Eh.. No.. Lets get some more interesting weapons like Shields or bows. Preferably Shield for this spec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > This is another thread dreaming about an OP-looking theme and moody, emo backstory / lore that _somehow_ becomes a balanced elite profession. > > Lilly, describe what exactly will the elite _do?_ Is it a Minionmancer and, if it is, how is it different than any other MM build and not be OP or lag the servers from too many AIs? I'd imagine it quite similar to my Deathcap Elite spec I designed a few years ago. At least mechanically. As far as what it'll do? Party support, Health sacrifice, summoning. Seems to be about the right theme. Probably would be pretty glassy when compared to Reaper or scourge, honestly. But then again, scourge has lost a lot of its surviveability in the last few nerfs. So maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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