Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

Keep smashing on with Core thief and Deadeye!

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @seanshine.8791 said:

> > > Karl, what was the reason deadeye stolen skills can and will only be casted on the marked target? This change makes no sense whatsoever and only kitten down the skill floor. The malice damage on non-marked target was already nerfed which is fine but being able to cast stolen abilities on other targets is crucial in group fights. For example, if I see a low revenant target low and trying to run away, it makes more sense to steal/mark on a ranger or ele to cast the stolen skills of immob/chill on them.

> >

> > It wasn't intended to be used like that. Hell, I didn't even know that your stolen skills could be used on other targets. Also, Malice damage on non-marked targets is also unintentional. So it wasn't a nerf. Just a bug that thieves got to enjoy for some time.

>

> It was intended, so it's a nerf.

Is it intended because you say so? Because the description says something else before path of fire released.

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

>

> This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

Uh..... how often are you changing targets in PvE, guy?

> @kash.9213 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @seanshine.8791 said:

> > > Karl, what was the reason deadeye stolen skills can and will only be casted on the marked target? This change makes no sense whatsoever and only kitten down the skill floor. The malice damage on non-marked target was already nerfed which is fine but being able to cast stolen abilities on other targets is crucial in group fights. For example, if I see a low revenant target low and trying to run away, it makes more sense to steal/mark on a ranger or ele to cast the stolen skills of immob/chill on them.

> >

> > It wasn't intended to be used like that. Hell, I didn't even know that your stolen skills could be used on other targets. Also, Malice damage on non-marked targets is also unintentional. So it wasn't a nerf. Just a bug that thieves got to enjoy for some time.

>

> Even if it was a bug they should have left it alone. Marking a target in WvW is basically prep work at this point because you have to pop everything in that small window where your stuff wont just tickle people pocketing that stolen skill for a second because your marked target is is already in another area code so you might as well use it to support your team against whatever is still around. Why stick around and kneel for a janky Deaths Judgement when I've already thrown most of my stuff away, I can't sit there without a stolen slow or something to throw on this guy kicking my kitten right now. I know I'm overreacting a bit but this one seemed to just come out of nowhere just because why not?

Are you saying that as a player that's figured out Deadeye? Or are you still learning? I've honestly not had a problem with the class being so single target focused. You have to rely on your utilities more than other specs... which is normal for core thief back in the day. And be a step ahead of everyone.

> @Kallist.5917 said:

> Ive not had any issues with it since the last update. Kneeling 2, stand , 4, 2, kneeling 2. it works fine. Ive used it in every environment I can think of at this point.

Bigger question is can you go up hills?

> @Eldrevy.9147 said:

> So the extra shades are just for reaching more enemies?

>

Wrong thinking mate. Covering more ground. The more shades you have down, the harder it is for the enemy to avoid taking damage. This is the reason why Scourges are so god damn dangerous in SPvP and WvW. And usually the only real counter to them is a Deadeye.

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> In comparison for the ranger LB(PvE), I kill faster on my Deadeye with the rifle then I do on my ranger with the LB. The Deadeye has more burst damage even without using DJ in which I can melt things faster then LB Ranger. Yes, they have the extra range which I think Deadeye should get a long with a bunch of other buffs, but compared to the LB Ranger, the Deadeye wins hands down because it's attacks do much more damage.

>

> I am saying this because I was playing on my ranger earlier farming and things were dying ok. Then I switched to my Deadeye, and things started melting in a second compared to the ranger which took a while longer to kill things.

On enemies with large health pools, LB Ranger will outshine Deadeye because Deadeye can not sustain very well. But even that's not very true if you know what you're doing.

How did thief get votes? When almost every god damn update we get practically erased by one single nerf.

> @Sabercross.5029 said:

> Does anyone else feel that the whole mechanic of the rifle spec is kitten? lol For dedicating the spec for the use of rifle and it struggles to put out good dps, hence "sniper", and is even out ranged by a longbow ranger? I know this is fantasy, but that's funny. lol Its decent for wvw, but even then it feels just, "slow." I was hoping for some trait changes, like to add some piercing at least besides the one ability. Idk, does anyone else think that the rifle needs some adjustments?

Dear god, DE is not a god damn sniper. And the spec is not dedicated to just using the sniper. That would imply that all of the DE's traits requires you to use a rifle, which only one does.

Yes rifle needs adjustments. But it's completely serviceable where it is. And has killed plenty of Long Bow rangers in my hands.

> @seanshine.8791 said:

> Karl, what was the reason deadeye stolen skills can and will only be casted on the marked target? This change makes no sense whatsoever and only kitten down the skill floor. The malice damage on non-marked target was already nerfed which is fine but being able to cast stolen abilities on other targets is crucial in group fights. For example, if I see a low revenant target low and trying to run away, it makes more sense to steal/mark on a ranger or ele to cast the stolen skills of immob/chill on them.

It wasn't intended to be used like that. Hell, I didn't even know that your stolen skills could be used on other targets. Also, Malice damage on non-marked targets is also unintentional. So it wasn't a nerf. Just a bug that thieves got to enjoy for some time.

> @starlinvf.1358 said:

> Daredevil and Deadeye are both DPS builds.... the former for high sustain, the latter burst oriented, and tuned for PvP health pools. But to say Thief is dead in raids, when it hasn't really lost any DPS, is a sign of a bigger problem.

>

> Thiefs are incredibly hard to balance outside of single target damage, because all of its utilities are ridiculously powerful of shared. Most people should still be able to remember venom share thief, and the high impact it had in PVP when they all went active at once. Raids don't really respect what core thief is designed for, and thats explosive damage and controls. Even their light CCs would be game changers, if not for the Breakbar nullifying its effects on the target.

>

> The serious solution boils down to the Encounter design. Situations where small scale burst damage (which a lot of classes can do, but thief excels at) is useful to the raid mechanics. But if we're stuck with stacking meta..... what fits the thief as a group share besides the venom?

>

> As for the DPS situation in POF...... its because the other classes power creeped when they shouldn't have. Weaver I can understand happening because of how it works (though the scale is ridiculous), but the Firebrand is just over the top. If you compare the DD DPS benchmark in August and then in POF, its DPS "DID NOT CHANGE". So its disingenuous to act like Thief got nerfed on DPS, when in reality other classes gained a larger margin for no apparent reason.

Honestly, thieves will start flexing their muscles when Raids introduce different circumstances.

A swarm of enemies that needs to be slowed down or stopped? Thief got your back with caltrops.

A boss that is vulnerable for a very small period of time but takes massive damage? Thief is a bursty mother jammer.

A very mobile boss, or a mechanic that requires mobility? Thief.

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > @knyy.6427 said:

> > > > Seeing the power creep with PoF and the total lack of nerfs of some other professions power daredevil needed some buffs.

> > >

> > > Daredevil has a advantageous matchup against every single PoF spec except for bunker firebrand and pre-nerf spellbreaker.

> > >

> > > All of the PoF elites except for bunker firebrand are glass cannon specs, and daredevil thrives in glass cannon metas.

> > >

> >

> > Only glass cannon if you make it glassy. Deadeye can be a kitten tank with %50+ damage reduction.

>

> You misunderstand, I'm was not referring to thief with the glass cannon comment. Thief's defensives are irrelevant for it's role, since thief isn't a point brawler or a teamfighter. I was referring to how thief easily preys on glassier builds due to thief's unparalleled alpha power. Thieves are at their most dominant when their opponents are playing glass, and are at their least effective when their opponents are playing bunk. Since almost all of the PoF elites are glass cannons, thief is performing well. (As compared to HoT where half the elites where either bruisers, supports, or both)

Ah I got you now.

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > Probably a logical bug, or intended.

> >

> > Think of it like this. A projectile attack is made. When it is in the air, it takes a snapshot of your character's current state. If you lose a power buff after you fire the projectile, the projectile still has that power buff. So in this case, you're still seen to be in stealth. When it hits, it makes a call back to the system to tell the system to apply reveal to you for attacking while in stealth.

>

> By this logic, then shooting a projectile and gaining stealth before the projectile hits should not apply reveal. Although it currently does.

All I said was it was a logical bug or intended and provided an example of what may cause it. I did not say "this is what is happening."

Probably a logical bug, or intended.

Think of it like this. A projectile attack is made. When it is in the air, it takes a snapshot of your character's current state. If you lose a power buff after you fire the projectile, the projectile still has that power buff. So in this case, you're still seen to be in stealth. When it hits, it makes a call back to the system to tell the system to apply reveal to you for attacking while in stealth.

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @knyy.6427 said:

> > Seeing the power creep with PoF and the total lack of nerfs of some other professions power daredevil needed some buffs.

>

> Daredevil has a advantageous matchup against every single PoF spec except for bunker firebrand and pre-nerf spellbreaker.

>

> All of the PoF elites except for bunker firebrand are glass cannon specs, and daredevil thrives in glass cannon metas.

>

Only glass cannon if you make it glassy. Deadeye can be a fucking tank with %50+ damage reduction.

> @Tringsh.2380 said:

> My biggest issue with it is that it robs D/D players of one of the core traits we used to have . It's jut not worth me taking that trait line with D/D unless they split up those trait effects, which really sucks because I would love to have 50% movement speed buff and a blind on cloak and dagger again.

I'd rather leave it as it is. Players will complain about thief being too efficient and incredibly combo heavy again. And we'll start recieving more bullshit nerfs like the 1second cool down to a backstab.

We know that one! The one where you fucking miss and you just walk around with your thumb up your ass. Meanwhile your 3 second cloak is ticking down which only affords you at most two chances, and normally just one shot at a proper backstab.

Well... arguably... players could just get good against stealth.

7 of the 9 classes have the ability to reveal stealthed players. No one ever takes the abilities that do that. And yet they want to bitch and moan about thieves being strong? Keep in mind only Deadeye has the ability to remove revealed. And Revealed prevents you from re-entering stealth.

> @Sandzibar.5134 said:

> How was it "nerfed to the ground" ?

The 100% endurance loss for 4 seconds. Daredevil has quite a few ways to regenerate endurance. But this trait is just one of the ones that will shoot you in the foot for taking. Even though DD does have ways to regen endurance statically, most of your endurance still comes from Regen. And the fact that triggering this trait will cause the loss will basically start a doom timer.

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > The best tip I can give you is to just experiment, and don't be afraid to fail.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's just such a cop-out answer, might as well be included everywhere and nowhere :D

> > > > >

> > > > > > Choose your Runes carefully. Rune of the Scholar tends to be everyone's go to for power damage, but half the kitten time people don't actually read it. They just assume one build fits all. If you roll with the rifle, you can no longer take advantage of Scholar's sixth ability as well. Pick them accordingly to how you play, whether or not you are sure you can continuously take advantage of them, and how much value you can get out of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why can't you use Scholar's 6 with a rifle?

> > > >

> > > > Because if a thief takes a single hit by anything the bonus goes away. Also that is not a cop out answer. People have different playstyles and can do much better with a build that fits that playstyle than going with whatever someone else tells them to use.

> > >

> > > lmao, that's by no means anything that makes "can't use scholar's 6 with rifle" statement valid then, which is exactly why I'm asking.

> > > And yes, that's a cop out answer -that can be said about everything and nothing at the same time and it answers literally nothing.

> >

> > TBH you can't really use it with any thief build, save maybe a unicorn build, simply because thief only has to take a minimum of 1.1k of damage for that bonus to go away. Might as well not be there. And that might be a cop out answer to you, but that's the reality of this game that many players fail to notice. Especially with thief where the d/p daredevil meta is worshiped as the most optimal build, but it barely has much of a role in all game modes and can be easily annihilated by [Ebola](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn0MB9OhFOBemCkmilWCTLAcAWAelh7QKa+EuCfhA-jVyBQBL7EAAgjAwN2fQTq/wsHAwf0H4SlgIT5HGOEAAA-w "Ebola") and good players.

>

> Which, again, is why I asked why he specifically mentioned that "you can't use scholar's 6th ability **with rifle**". Do you understand how sentences work and what he wrote? He didn't say "if you're a glass cannon, getting hit for 10% of your hp is rather easy" (which is obvious to everyone), he said "if you run with rifle, you can't use scholar's 6th ability". Add to that your 24/7 argument "you shouldn't even build glass on DE" and... I'd say you contradict yourself, but we know how well you take it ^^

> Seriously you can't take a sentence, cut out 3 words and say "that's what he meant". If that would be what he meant, then he needs some serious work with wording his own thoughts (and why are you even trying to answer for him btw? :D).

> Nah, it's a cop out ""answer"" and it answers nothing.

The main reason why I say that you can't use it with rifle, is that rifle makes it rather difficult for you to avoid getting hit when you're ready to kill. The rune's bread and butter normally comes from the Death's Judgement ability which can pack a god damn punch. But to do that, you need to drop into a crouch which is fairly slow. In WvW or PvE most of the enemies can jump on you pretty quickly and hit you for a good chunk of HP. That's not saying that any other weapon makes it easier to get the value out of it however.

I've already tried the rune, and I really couldn't get the value out of it compared to something like Rune of Rage or of the Eagle.

I fell in love with deadeye when I got my hands on it, and it really made me open my eyes to see how busted DD is.

But JESUS FUCK WHY!? This nerf turned a god damn trait into a massive liability where you effectively shoot yourself in the foot without your own damn consent!

> @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @zengara.8301 said:

> > > Well......The sniper rifle literally is meant to be a modern sniper, even if you remove the obvious picture of a sniper, the sniper position on 1 knee (from other games, reality, of cause, is different.....but so is it with gunslinger) and the difference in gunslingers being more heavy when moving and shooting.......the name of the traits literally say Sniper covers and silent scope, but it really does not matter, you can change it to gunslinger I guess, if you remove the traits and focus on the PP play. Can not deny that the actual elite specialization is meant to be a sniper, like from Overwatch tho.

> > >

> > > How would you want the rifle fixed, like what would be the purpose of it? Rifle and PP even with the f1 being ranged isnt really good for anything beside picking people off in wvw (roaming), not even dungeons.

> > > I get that we have a difference in opinion, I generally dont know what you do in the game, I play WvW mainly and sometimes raid that is probably why I wanted thief to be part of that melee train without getting destroyed at the first push.

> > >

> > > Well probably not firearm classes, but there are more long ranged than close ranged classes (if we look at meta, of cause anyone can be melee, even elementalist, and anyone can use 100% of their time in Gw2 just enjoying the nature of the game while only collecting mining, like what was thought about BDO......but there is always a main way people generally play, and a main way the company moves the game on)

> >

> > If you want to cherry pick, sure... Silent Scope and Sniper's Cover means deadeye is exclusively a sniper.

> >

> > If you look at the other traits you got...

> > "Be Fast or Be Killed" Which is a dude holding two six shooters. The trait is basically a quick draw that allows you to rapidly burst a player down before he even gets a chance to react. A common trait for a western fantasy gunslinger is how fast they are at getting a bead and shooting someone from afar with a winchester or colt 45.

> > Peripherial Vision: Which is far more important to a gun slinger than a Sniper.

> > Maleficent Seven: A direct reference to a western gunslinger movie.

> > One in the Chamber: Which uses the image of a bullet loaded in the Cylinder, really did not become a thing till the days of the repeaters and six shooters.

> >

> > If anything, Deadeye is more like the main character of a western movie like Winchester 73, Tomb Stone, or Highnoon.

> >

> > Hell when I play deadeye, I don't think I'm Widowmaker. I see myself as a western outlaw riding on the back of a Raptor, and armed with a god kitten repeating rifle and two smoke wagons.

>

> McCree then?

>

> https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/mccree/

Nah, try Doc Holliday

> @Umair.7693 said:

> Yea, make it 2sec or 2 stack with 1 sec per stack. This skill need to give more value to thief to justify it as an "Elite skill".

> Ofcourse, it is unblockable attack but 1.5 sec kinda short time. Especially for thief who want to position themself for Backstab.

>

Most people who take Basilisk Venom don't use it for re-positioning. Usually when you backstab you're already in position. They often pop it when they are going in for a backstab so they can chunk the person twice with a back attack before they can get away. That, or to get past a guardian's bs constant access to aegis.

It used to be a lot better back when the thief had multiple uses of it instead of venom sharing it. But the Venom share made it much stronger for raids instead of PvP.

Good to see the Core thief is kicking ass still!

> @Rastel.9157 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Fxthaid.4832 said:

> > > What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

> > >

> > > And how come nobody is talking about this?

> >

> > If players would:

> > * Keep mark up.

> > * Stop spamming rifle three and find some other source of might generation, as there are plenty of better options to choose from.

> > * Stop trying to melee with it.

> > * Take advantage of the three ini cost stealth afforded by double tapping Sniper's Cover.

> > * Take advantage of it's support capabilities, as they affect the Deadeye too.

> > * Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's Cover is the only way to deal damage with the Rifle.

> > * Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's cover roots you for long periods of time and makes you stupidly vulnerable, when Free Action is instant with no CD.

> > * Find a perch to safe from instead of immediately jumping into the middle of combat.

> > * Not go full glass when the spec gives you near permanent access to might and fury on top of the 20% crit rate afforded by Sniper's Cover.

> > * Use Mark as a range finder as it reaches 1500 without kneeling.

> >

> > they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

>

> Would you maybe help some of us thats new (new too thief at least and rejoined gw2) and want to try the rifle then?

>

> Have a build suggestion and what armor to go for etc?

Don't ask for a build, ask for tips. A build in GW2 is tailored to your playstyle, which is something people don't understand in this game.

The best tip I can give you is to just experiment, and don't be afraid to fail.

The other tips I can give you is...

Use your cantrips, they ARE DESIGNED to be used. Core Thief has always been pretty damn strong when they bust out the utilities, and this is no different with Deadeye as all of your survivability has been neatly packaged into cantrips.

Choose your Runes carefully. Rune of the Scholar tends to be everyone's go to for power damage, but half the damn time people don't actually read it. They just assume one build fits all. If you roll with the rifle, you can no longer take advantage of Scholar's sixth ability as well. Pick them accordingly to how you play, whether or not you are sure you can continuously take advantage of them, and how much value you can get out of it.

If you are scared of people getting in your face, that's ok. Just take Iron Sight. That percentile damage reduction will save your ass so many times. ESPECIALLY when combined with the Shadow Arts line and Sniper's Cover. You can get up to 50% damage reduction, or completely stop them from criting you when you are in stealth.

Learn to use the terrain. The harder it is for someone to get you, the faster they will die or panic.

And most importantly, learn how to be a cheeky bastard. You are a thief, you don't fight fair.