Firebeard.1746

The best advice I have for OP is to understand two things:

How much DPS your skills are (damage/cast time)

How much of your DPS will come from a given skill (damage/CD time).

Do Prioritize #1 and fill with #2 as much as possible. This will only get you to a "passable" level but it's probably the best way to intuitively undesrtand your rotation. Sometimes there's very non-intuitive crap. For example I was practicing condi mirage when it finally occurred to me that most of my damage must be coming from axes outside of phantasm CDs. I started trying harder to land my ambush better, was still not getting much. Then i finally realized the seek function of the axes from my illusions wasn't working properly, they were spinning off into space! Then I noticed that repositioning clones with #3 before ambushing gives better seek on the axes. So I started being more intentional about where I spawned my clones and when i ambushed and I'm still not amazing at it, but at least I'm not mid teens (in thousands) of DPS any more.

Well the shards from the FS were only like 5. It was really low, like what I remember normal runs. I guess the extra seals make sense, but Given the current seal rewards it's really not much consolation for how annoying they are.

Griffon is easier to get by far, but skyscale is probably more useful. Griffon has very niche uses -> adventures, it's very fast when maxed with mastery and you can start from a large drop, it's pretty fun. Skyscale can go up way higher. The griffon is kind of like a baby flying mount without starting on altitude -> You can jump before flapping so you can get some distance off the ground and glide for a bit, but as far as traversing HUGE cliffs or something, it's not that great. It's probably my favorite mount, but it just has really niche uses.

Also note, you will have to complete the mastery achievement for Jahai if you want Vision, Griffon adventures are one of the categories. You will also need skyscale for Vision as well. It just occurred to me some of the rifts are only accessible via skyscale.

Like I did a full CM forging steel yesterday and I've been doing full CM DRMs (usually just 2/3 though succeed) and I don't feel like I'm being rewarded for the extra effort, like nothing sticks out in my loot. What is the payoff for these CMs? Am I really getting more loot and it's just not exciting or what?

> @"Cuks.8241" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Cuks.8241" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > Not sure you could argue this. In OW you can build whatever you want and get away with it, in PVE there are specialized roles way more than other MMOS (quick, alac, might, bs, spirits, healing, tanks, DPS) some builds can cover multiple bases sure, but comps in this game are way more complicated and support buffs can take skill to have to apply based on class (chrono specifically). At top end PVE, this game is FAR more difficult than anything I'd done in WoW.

> > >

> > > Most support roles in gw2 are just buff coverage. That is not much different to other games, they are just not called support usually, just DPS. When I was raiding in wow, the raid comps were just as complex and more strictly defined to get the optimum buff coverage and synergy. And buffs had unique effects per class (not like here where quickness is the same regardless who applies it) so the top meta was much narrower. With time blizzard tried to break that with giving more classes more options and unify buff effects because before that some classes never saw high-end raids.

> >

> > I think you're oversimplifying "just buff coverage" in this game =/= the same in WoW. In this game you actually have to weave those buffs into a real rotation, and you also have to make a stat sacrifice to give them over raw healing and/or DPS. Wow is "I press this button once every X MINUTES". Right now in WoW, there's only 3 buffs + heroism that matter. I actually really hate GW2's buff system in the context of group content. It's been around too long to change it, but it's annoying to say the least.

>

> My experience from WoW raiding comes from burning crusade and Wolk. Especially BC had probably the tightest meta in history. 25 man raid format and every group (e.g., tank group, caster group...) had a strict class and build combo for best synergy.

You talking about the shadow priest shadow weaving/ruin warlock combo that was meta in BC and they took just enough of every other class to provide buffs/heals/tank? If you weren't doing that hyper debuff efficient comp, Really it was some combo of 1 mage, 1 priest, 1 Shaman, 1 druid, 2 locks, + enough unique pallies for buffs (2-3 iirc), so we're looking at ~30% of your raid

> I would say rotations are harder in GW2, the combat is more action-oriented. DPS checks are tighter in wow. But playing a "support" is usually no harder than playing a pure dps. Alaren, qfb, BS hard?

As long as you can kill 1 boss with a higher ilvl, your group will start climbing in dps, and with easier rotations, it's easier to hit that cap. Heck, frost mage in BC was a 1 button every 2s rotation and a 2nd every 45s, you just used utility as situation demands. The rotations being so simple makes the dps demands as i've mentioned earlier, nothing but a gear/consumable/synergy check.

Also note, what % of your raid is a unique support role, even in BC? Far lower than in this game, at least half your raid is providing some sort of utility

Also if your boon support dies in this game you lose the boon. Definently harder here than WoW

In fact the only deadly death in wow is the tank, sometimes healer. Here it can be any of the supports + anyone filling a raid mechanic role, or even 1 dps depending on the boss. The few times i raided back in your era you could still kill a boss with a dead person or 2.

And the mechanics in gw2 feel way more intense than anything i experienced in wow, back then or even BFA when i still raided.

The only reason why raiders in this game think it's easier is because this game isn't famous for its raiding and the content get so stale with new raid releases being so sparse, after the players learn the raids they just don't feel hard any more.

From a player skill perspective, this game is far more intense.

I don't play any of those classes, but their rotations are definitely more involved than the games i was comapring. I did have a guildie with an alacren who started refusing to play it because he couldn't hit its DPS capabilities. SO people tap out when they struggle.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Losing an unrecoverable mid? Attempt to decap far or go back home to defend if someone already does it. Commit to cap if viable and defend from respawns 1v1.

>

> Players on respawn from mid will take care of home, far no longer possible? Fall back to mid for a back cap / help team that should have home secure by now.

>

> Dying in the process? Teamwork your way home after respawn if it's not been won already or head mid to team fight and win it. Should be able to rinse and repeat from there.

Except if most of your team dies in that mid, you better bet you'll get chased far and killed and now they have mid and far. That's basically the problem when people rush far at start, leaving your team in a 3v4 situation is a bad idea because more than likely they'll die. The strategy really only works if the enemy team is doing the same thing. But most of the time what I've seen is the enemy team's home capper is smart, lands a few really high damaging abilities in MID to throw for them, then goes.

> @"Cuks.8241" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > Not sure you could argue this. In OW you can build whatever you want and get away with it, in PVE there are specialized roles way more than other MMOS (quick, alac, might, bs, spirits, healing, tanks, DPS) some builds can cover multiple bases sure, but comps in this game are way more complicated and support buffs can take skill to have to apply based on class (chrono specifically). At top end PVE, this game is FAR more difficult than anything I'd done in WoW.

>

> Most support roles in gw2 are just buff coverage. That is not much different to other games, they are just not called support usually, just DPS. When I was raiding in wow, the raid comps were just as complex and more strictly defined to get the optimum buff coverage and synergy. And buffs had unique effects per class (not like here where quickness is the same regardless who applies it) so the top meta was much narrower. With time blizzard tried to break that with giving more classes more options and unify buff effects because before that some classes never saw high-end raids.

I think you're oversimplifying "just buff coverage" in this game =/= the same in WoW. In this game you actually have to weave those buffs into a real rotation, and you also have to make a stat sacrifice to give them over raw healing and/or DPS. Wow is "I press this button once every X MINUTES". Right now in WoW, there's only 3 buffs + heroism that matter. I actually really hate GW2's buff system in the context of group content. It's been around too long to change it, but it's annoying to say the least.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > all i can say is, welcome to guild wars 2.

> > > a place where stats are linear and roles are reduced to 1.

> >

> > Not sure you could argue this. In OW you can build whatever you want and get away with it, in PVE there are specialized roles way more than other MMOS (quick, alac, might, bs, spirits, healing, tanks, DPS) some builds can cover multiple bases sure, but comps in this game are way more complicated and support buffs can take skill to have to apply based on class (chrono specifically). At top end PVE, this game is FAR more difficult than anything I'd done in WoW.

>

> You're pretty generous in what you consider a class "role" in GW2. For instance, alacrity is a class role now? I'd call boon application a support role. However, in games with better class balance, every class also brings unique support. Thus "support" is not considered a distinct role so much as something a tank/healer/dps does in addition to their primary function.

>

> Far more difficult than WoW? That's hilarious. You honestly believe that guilds competing for world first in WoW would struggle with GW2's one-size-fits-all raiding? I love GW2 and my WoW days are over, but this is just not consistent with reality.

BS support is too broad a classification, each boon is necessary, and you're skirting the fact that some level of skill is needed to apply them. Even though the druid rotation is simple, it's still more effort than pushing a button for a 30 minute buff. I honestly wish they used that model instead of weaving in a role with a rotation. Alac ren is super easy, not sure about QB, but chrono is definite involved (and sometimes reliant on another chrono)

I've already had an argument about this with someone else, I found instances from BFA where heroic was downed 24-48 hours after the new raid launch. Mythic difficulty is just an illusion, there's a veritable stat climb that must happen to clear it, and the top guilds use proc-based classes as a way around it. They may only have 2% chance of succeeding (the procs all happen the right way), but they'll roll the dice over and over to beat the time gating. You can look that up, it's verifiable. I'm not wrong. How hard is a frost mage rotation? Now compare that to say, any Power DPS build hitting its cap and you tell me which is harder. I won't argue about this, but anyone with a brain will tell you and know frost mage is much easier to master than just about any meta build in this game. Also the DPS floors in WoW are much higher. This game IS FAR MORE technically challenging and it's difficult to balance without an artificial power climb. Make it too easy, top-end players lose their crap, make it too hard, too many of the people here not used to being challenged give up. Heck you can hit only 50% DPS while still trying a rotation in this game.

The stat climbs in other MMOs also reduce the skill cap by artificially inflating DPS. I know people in this forum won't agree, but I"ll just say, take a look at unique abilities being cast and how often between the games, as well as Actions per minute, and you'll realize this game is far more challenging than WoW. Not sure about FFXIV, but I can say WoW is far easier and I've raided heroic on and off in PuGs there.

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> all i can say is, welcome to guild wars 2.

> a place where stats are linear and roles are reduced to 1.

Not sure you could argue this. In OW you can build whatever you want and get away with it, in PVE there are specialized roles way more than other MMOS (quick, alac, might, bs, spirits, healing, tanks, DPS) some builds can cover multiple bases sure, but comps in this game are way more complicated and support buffs can take skill to have to apply based on class (chrono specifically). At top end PVE, this game is FAR more difficult than anything I'd done in WoW.

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> The important thing to remember is that the META is largely about community enforcement. The community is focusing on speed clears and defined roles when they recommend builds. A strong case can be made for creating builds that don't do things quickly, but comfortably. Even for raids, you don't need to run the super-effective comps with pure glass builds to win. A community can have expectations where the players prefer not to wear glass cannon gear, because they don't want to spend their time dealing with losses from thin margins of error.

>

> The gear prefixes are there largely to help with preference in play. Factoring in overworld preferences and WvW builds of limitless specialization, there are far more uses for gear sets than you'd expect. I myself have a Marshall Weaver for WvW and particularly stubborn PVE overworld bosses.

I both agree and disagree with this. I feel like there are lots of PVE encounters like Largos and DRMs that force glass cannon. It's actually my main gripe with them. Also there is a required floor of DPS for raids. That was one of the things I loved about Forging steel: it was a squad-based activity but more about mechanics.

This is the post everyone needs. My blood pressure would rise every freaking time our home capper makes a beeline for far, allowing us all to die and ceding map control to the enemy team at start. It's rare that a team that doesn't have map control in numbers actually wins a match. In order for that the work, the enemy team needs collective ADD.

Also though, if your team is more dead than the enemy team, capping undefended points and/or decapping is the modus operandi, not rushing mid in 1v4s.

So in NA, there's tons of people advertising for paid kills, I bought a Dhuum kill from them once. You could just pay someone for a kill and it should unlock on your first boss kill. I would do a W1-W4 kill just to be sure, in case it's tied to Maguuma raids specifically. PM me if you want to know who I used.

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> I'm honestly expecting this to be an expansion feature. I don't mind too much, but I don't think it's coming soon.

I'm thinking this as well. If it doesn't come with the expansion, I'm dropping GW2 like a rock. I worked too hard on ascension for them to poop all over me like that. But I think it'd sell well so they'd add it as an expansion feature.

> @"Cuks.8241" said:

> Rotations might seem complex when put on paper but are often quite logical and intuitive if you know the class well. That is why it is also important that you like the class and play it often.

I disagree with this. I feel like I can give it my all and understand the rotation but I'm still far below benchmark. And empirically I know I'm not the only one. There are lots of people who do get close to benchmark, but I don't even think they're half of people that regularly do high-end PVE.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > It's probably more likely due to the difficulty of completing them with pugs than difficulty with the encounters themselves. Anyone who raids regularly is more than capable of doing the mechanics presented in the DRM CMs.

> >

> >

> > This particular group of people was a guild group. When i've done training runs with these guys their DPS has usually been on-spot.

> >

> > Also, my other comments still stand, I would do just as poorly on ranged as I would melee if I'm a bad player, so there is use for ranged on this fight. You also still don't mention swapping to range while he's standing in the left over AOE puddle when you talked about that being a given before, the conversation had gone far past instructional at this point, I was just calling out previous posts for how toxic they were.

> >

> >

>

> That was because you were calling for ranged attacks to be primarily used since you’re calling it the meta or think it is. The argument was over that and not about using ranged attacks when applicable.

Well that argument's been done for a while because I haven't fought back with anyone who disagreed with me. That's been posted multiple times since start.

A massive change that needs to be made to LA is that the different gear templates you have can be transmogged separately for the same legendary. Many people Identify their gear based on appearance, and currently if you transmute an equipped legendary in one gear template, it appears the same in all others. This will severely limit the usability of the LA for people that specialize many gear templates for 1 character.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> It's probably more likely due to the difficulty of completing them with pugs than difficulty with the encounters themselves. Anyone who raids regularly is more than capable of doing the mechanics presented in the DRM CMs.

This particular group of people was a guild group. When i've done training runs with these guys their DPS has usually been on-spot.

Also, my other comments still stand, I would do just as poorly on ranged as I would melee if I'm a bad player, so there is use for ranged on this fight. You also still don't mention swapping to range while he's standing in the left over AOE puddle when you talked about that being a given before, the conversation had gone far past instructional at this point, I was just calling out previous posts for how toxic they were.

> @"weaponwh.9810" said:

> just curious between power soulbeast, dh, holo and other class which one have easier dps rotation, but also get good dps scores?.

Tbh, there's not really alot of simple builds published out there. A non trivial amount of your DPS as condi mirage comes from 100% clone uptime, but I'll warn you, you won't get to what I consider the minimum (20k) required without learning the rotation, it just gives you a floor and your clones don't give you the most powerful portion of your condi damage: torment and confusion. Also the SC rotation leaves out that clone positioning matters during ambush if you want your axes to all hit the boss, which is crucial.

> @"Katary.7096" said:

> As of right now snowcrows is rating the average for the power chrono benchmark at 42.500 DPS, if you can produce slightly more than 20.000 DPS on the golem you would be roughly at 50% mastery of the build. Which leads me to believe that your own estimation for your expertise of the power chronomancer is likely the result of overconfidence bias.

And you think I'd magically be better with an inferior weapon? The player isn't changing between the weapon type. The whole point of this was a comparison between ranged vs. melee. But I love that not following the conversation you're getting tons of likes for dragging me through the mud. That's such constructive conversation. Which is hilarious because everyone here is acting so arrogant about these encounters, but their advice doesn't even match the CM mechanics, there's a hell of a lot more than "just dodge" which has been featured at least twice as the solution to running melee. Decent =/= master. You're twisting my words to embarass me. 20k+ is acceptable DPS in many raid encounters. I'm saying I can pull my weight as a raider, not that I'm super proficient. It's crazy I have to spell this crap out for you guys, like you can't math the average DPS on a boss and see that'd work. Which both of these things in context are hilarious. It's obvious the skill level of some of the snobs here is non-existent if they can't intelligently explain how they're dealing with mechanics, but I'm open about my skill level and get mocked and a "like" pileup on it when it's entirely irrelevant to the conversation.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm seeing lots of complaints about the difficulty on these, even from more seasoned people than me in my guild's discord (that actually raid and try to hit the benchmarks).

> @"Katary.7096" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > I think this has already been covered (i haven't argued back with anyone above who agrees with you), i was just calling them out on them misrepresenting what I was saying and completely sidestepping the issue that is guardian is basically the top profession right now.

>

> And in what context would guardian be the top profession currently? General PvE? Specifically DRMs? There are plenty of raid encounters which favor stacking mesmer, either as chronomancer or as mirage. Strike missions tend to give power soulbeast the greatest boost, thanks to the implementation of the SAK. With the exception of 100CM fractals promote power DPS and guardian is not the first choice for power DPS right now.

> The guardian might currently be the best profession when it comes to sacrificing maximum performance for ease of use and versatility, though that does not seem to be what you are talking about.

Guardians are meta for providing quickness in almost any raid encounter, they're meta in fractals, they're meta in DRMs, they're a top class in PVP and WvW.

And you know what? I'd like to see other DPS classes similarly buffed (or provide utility that bringing another chrono isn't worth it), I agree, stacking chronos shouldn't be a thing.

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> Yea thats next one.

> the last chapter of these 4 is the one who was moved up will be april instead of may.

Ah thanks.

I thought I heard they were moving it up from the previous date, but the only date I have found is the Feb 16 one.

> @"knite.1542" said:

> Are there any nerfs that you guys thought were uncalled for, but after playing with the nerf for awhile you realized how busted the skill was?

>

> I have a few but the biggest one for me personally is Holographic shockwave. The range on that skill used to be insane lol.

Chrono, all the way. I know we got IP back, but at the end of the day, we lost our distort. Feels totally uncalled for. Chrono may have received a buff in PVE DPS because of some of the shatter changes, but overall it felt like part of the class's identity was stolen.

Also Mirage in PVP. I know it felt insane before, but I feel like now most of the time mirages are a joke in PVP. I find a good one every now and then, but it's so rare I wonder if the player would do even better with a completely different class.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my experience it may be meta for the same reason you say having everyone DPS is meta, most people struggle with the intensity of mechanics in melee. I think it's pretty telling the group that died more was also the one we barely failed on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not saying you're wrong, you're probably absolutely right that well-played melee is better.

> > > > >

> > > > > The issue is that ranged attacks are lower DPS and it’s low DPS that is causing people to fail. Having players all go range is just setting them up to fail even more.

> > > > >

> > > > > There’s really no reason to fail mechanics. The Thunderhead boss is pretty much the matriarch wyvern. The FoR boss players just have to get out away from the boss when it does the telegraph for the one attack. It’s not like it’s a raid which is throwing many mechanics at you at once.

> > > >

> > > > Umm so what about those burn pulses the FoR boss stands in for many seconds at a time? I know for a fact that I was not even hitting my power GS dps from arc when i decided to power chrono. Admittedly I did die, but even before I did, I noticed those DPS numbers dropping lower.

> > >

> > > You obviously use a ranged weapon and/or wait for the boss to be pulled. You don’t just camp your ranged weapon the entire time.

> >

> > But everyone here just told me melee was still meta? No one mentioned this, not even once.

>

> Nobody is telling you not to use a ranged weapon at all. There are situations where you do can swap to a ranged weapon in many fights but melee should always be priority.

I don't interpret the dissent on this thread the same way as you, but sure, whatever.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

> > > >

> > > > In my experience it may be meta for the same reason you say having everyone DPS is meta, most people struggle with the intensity of mechanics in melee. I think it's pretty telling the group that died more was also the one we barely failed on.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not saying you're wrong, you're probably absolutely right that well-played melee is better.

> > >

> > > The issue is that ranged attacks are lower DPS and it’s low DPS that is causing people to fail. Having players all go range is just setting them up to fail even more.

> > >

> > > There’s really no reason to fail mechanics. The Thunderhead boss is pretty much the matriarch wyvern. The FoR boss players just have to get out away from the boss when it does the telegraph for the one attack. It’s not like it’s a raid which is throwing many mechanics at you at once.

> >

> > Umm so what about those burn pulses the FoR boss stands in for many seconds at a time? I know for a fact that I was not even hitting my power GS dps from arc when i decided to power chrono. Admittedly I did die, but even before I did, I noticed those DPS numbers dropping lower.

>

> You obviously use a ranged weapon and/or wait for the boss to be pulled. You don’t just camp your ranged weapon the entire time.

But everyone here just told me melee was still meta? No one mentioned this, not even once.

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> Im completing achievments left behind, and i did dive not into Strike areas yet;

>

> - anyone can tell me a list in order of dificult?

Shiverpeaks, Bears (I think it's called voice and claw), Fraenir, Cold War, Whisper and Boneskinner are kinda tied. both are jukable with 3 healers as the boss HP pools aren't that large, for boneskinner you'd want at least 1 heal scourge. Both have strong mechanics you need to play/dodge. I'd say boneskinner is SLIGHTLY more difficult because you're not given much time at all to react to the AOE pools you have to dodge. WoJ and BS are the ones that will give you real issues, CW can put a lot of stress on your healer, but usually if DPS helps with downs it's fine.

> - how is the environment for pugs?

I dunno, I was able to PuG them all just fine when i did. Granted my Juke strats don't get you gold for WoJ and BS. You can get away with 1 healer on the easier 3, just pack with DPS and DPS boon support and you'll do them gold just fine. The biggest issue you might have is finding people to do them with.

>

> but just to clarify im not a "new player', im just lazy/burned out to do hardcore content, sometimes i run T3 fractals and i find it ok difficult. in the past i did even an "migraine" achievment.

> sry if i seem too lazy person, im just a older guy with no much "energy" left.

I get it. The DRM CMs have me second-guessing my commitment to this game. And why the heck are they in the Meta Achieve?