Firebeard.1746

Kodans, obviously.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> The elite specialization's weapons aren't always the best for it.

> Sometimes they aren't even a good choice.

>

> Dragonhunter's Longbow, for example, is not even close to be good.

> I nearly never use Shield on Herald or Warhorn on Tempest.

All the raid builds for tempest I've seen use warhorn.

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > I'm kinda miffed I can't use GS effectively in raids/strikes/fractals as mirage, I like the ambush skill for GS, but the throughput is just ineffective. Almost all of the extra damage from the spec come from imaginary axes and the trait that gives additional ones on axe skill use. (To be fair, its autoattack also has ridiculously heavy condi damage as well, far and above anything the other mirage weapons could generate, either on plain auto attacks OR ambushes. )

> >

> > I prefer choice, and I feel like making the elite weapon *THE* choice kills the spec sometimes and makes the elite specs feel more like pigeonholing than an actual extension of your class. I'd say good traits are ones like Chronophantasma that work well with *ALL* weapons and not just one.

> >

> > I'm not saying make the elite weapons bad, I'm just saying it feels bad when there's only 1 weapon choice for an elite.

>

> I think GS, from what you said, just isn't the right weapon for that specialization. I'm sure other weapons would work besides Axe, but this seems that Mirage it's meant for that one weapon.

I'm pretty sure you can't get good DPS on anything but Axe for mirage. Mesmer's strongest main weapon (sword) has a ambush attack with an animation that takes way too long (and the ambush attacks for almost all the weapons have really long animations). And as i've stated earlier, the DPS builds for mirage that actually work focus on those imaginary axes for a non-trivial amount of DPS, which are only generated from axe attacks.

I get what alot of you are saying, that it's not always the best, I've mentioned the special case of chrono as well, i'm saying I want more e-specs like chrono than like Mirage.

I'm kinda miffed I can't use GS effectively in raids/strikes/fractals as mirage, I like the ambush skill for GS, but the throughput is just ineffective. Almost all of the extra damage from the spec come from imaginary axes and the trait that gives additional ones on axe skill use. (To be fair, its autoattack also has ridiculously heavy condi damage as well, far and above anything the other mirage weapons could generate, either on plain auto attacks OR ambushes. )

I prefer choice, and I feel like making the elite weapon *THE* choice kills the spec sometimes and makes the elite specs feel more like pigeonholing than an actual extension of your class. I'd say good traits are ones like Chronophantasma that work well with *ALL* weapons and not just one.

I'm not saying make the elite weapons bad, I'm just saying it feels bad when there's only 1 weapon choice for an elite.

I just make my own groups in LFG when i play. I find the caliber of person willing to make a group is usually higher, in LFG, than in public instances of just about anything.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> I’m more worried about the bots on NA who climb every season with the same person on multiple alts at 4am for purposely ez matches and get rank 1(past 10 seasons btw?)

Are you certain that the bots are actually bad? I guess what I maen is: are you sure this person doesn't have a good AI for when the bots are on *THEIR* team and a real person shows up? In WoW PVP, supposedly bots are winning the day, and I feel like GW2 would be even more egregious: a bot would have superior reflexes to a human, and may not have to identify moves by sight (could be looking at network traffic, etc), & isn't restricted by a camera

Tbh botting in WoW is actually more effective than coordinated players, for this reason, no 5v5 versions are something I support. It's only a matter of time before someone with a brain gets good at 5 bot super coordinated burns that a normal human can't react to.

I think we should get 3v3 versions of conquest and/or stronghold.

I think some people are win traiding and the guy who is supposed to flunk the other team is lecturing the other player caught in it. I literally had someone stand there and do nothing while the enemy team mate was rezzing and had them lecture me about how I was supposed to rez them immediately when they were downed and we're against a guardian with summoned weapons (aoe that burns an area) so I'd basically be downed in an instant doing that. I also ate an entire burn phase on the engi potion that makes you invulnerable from both enemies and they did nothing. This isn't the first time I've noticed this, it's just a behavior I've been noticing over and over.

Also alot of the bots are using bunker builds. I think not dying first is helping them avoid automation for detection.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> The meta we had before was more like an FPS, it was more about predictions and reaction times. Fun, but not really what an MMO should be. So a-net started shifting it towards a different balance, where fights last longer, and lacking superior reaction times can be made up with good tactical decisions.

Have you played PVP? condi meta is still burning people down fast, and it's annoying that some classes like engi have their condi convert abilites an a really long cast time but other classes can do it passively or quickly with traits and/or other abilities.

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Anet nerfed sustain. You need only look back to the last patch. Rev sustain nerfed. Cele amulet removed. Healbrand nerfed. Well before that, Anet hard nerfed Crev's sustain, hit tempest multiple times, doubled druid's avatar cooldown, deleted symbol monkey, deleted decap scrapper, nefed paladin amulet, deleted cavalier, knights, barbarian... the list goes on.

>

> Safe to say, a lack of attention to sustain is not the issue here.

>

> So why are bunkers so tanky?

>

> Hard hitters like Renegade, Holo, and Prev, condi thief, ect. were keeping bunkers in check. We complained, got them nerfed.

> Some might Argue that DH is rising in popularity as an answer to said bunkers.

>

> Guess what? We want DH nerfed too.

>

> Does no one consider the long term consequences of the nerfs they ask for?

>

> When you guys complained about these builds doing too much damage, what was you end goal?

>

> Did you want fights against these classes to last longer? If so... well..., fights against these classes last longer. Bunkers can now heal through their dps provided they manage their resources correctly

>

> I'm genuinely not trying to come off as condescending here, I'm curious.

>

> Do you think the damage from builds like Holo/ Renegade was too high? Might it have been better to bring damage up to a similar level as these two classes? Because I must reiterate, **sustain has gotten nerfed hard across several patches**.

>

> If we lower sustain again. Expect builds similar in power (relative to the meta) as Nade holo become to appear as a result. We're going to have to accept that and not complain when someone posts a screenshot of them being three-shot by a bread-n-butter burst combo.

>

>

>

> .

>

>

SB, guardian, warrior and rev still have plenty of sustain. there's a lot of bots using troll ammys with full bunker builds to just last forever and do nothing. It's annoying. Because I get focused and then they finally die with 2 person pressure.

> @"gmmg.9210" said:

> Title explains itself. There's not enough build diversity in this game and everyone is choosing 2 out of the 3 heavy classes while disregarding the other unless it's support.

> Please stop giving DH and Herald special treatment. Revenant in general feels like a power creep for paying players and it's encroaching on p2w.

> Meanwhile Berzerker feels lacking and doesn't burn as well as Burn Guardian. That's absurd! Berzerker is all about burning with torch and yet Guard takes the cake!

Berserker has sustain far and away of what is intended imo, it deserves a nerf as well. I've seen plenty of them, too much healing, stab.

So I actually made a group using NA raid academy, it didn't fully fill out but we posted in LFG afterwards and people just showed up. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to PuG if they see a non-KP crazy group there. My suggestion is to try creating your own, most people don't like puGGing raids because they can be VERY hit or miss because of the specific mechanics that specific raid members have to fill. Lots of people try to build and/or find a static and only do stuff with them for a guaranteed performance bar. like good luck doing SH without a druid that knows what they're doing with pushing.

But there are people who want to make money selling raids and the community by and large doesn't raid, so they're offering a service for ridiculously rich non end-game PVEers is the long of the short of it.

> @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > @"Blake.8476" said:

> > > @"Ziggityzog.7389" said:

> > > Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.

> > > Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.

> > > What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

> >

> > What do you mean by "when not activated"?

>

> When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

Technically speaking confusion is this way, the damage ticks on it are ridiculously low.

It doesn't matter -> I've been matched with as many as 3 bots in a row. It feels really bad if you've won a round or two solo basically and you still lose and your rank keeps collapsing. I was thinking about still doing a few matches a week after ascension, but this 2v2 cesspool has me second guessing that. 20 more wins...

O yeah it's freaking beautiful when the enemy team just waits for your stealth to pop, like they know the bot isn't going to hurt them because it's wearing a clerics or something. This entire game mode is a BS cesspool. The only potential fix I can think of is to nerf the gold reward on ranked, possibly merge its queue with normal. I would think botting in open world would be more productive, even with DR compared to reward tracks, but knowing how toxic and insane some people are, I'm not sure that's enough.

And this is all Arenanet's fault. They just aren't strict enough/good enough at catching this BS, so it kills the population, but then they'll turn around and be like "no one plays PVP" in their comments, it's gaslighting BS.

Mesmers are crap in PVP, it's funny you whine about the clones when that's the greatest liability. Any AOE damage in play basically removes the mesmer's ability to shatter them or use IH. And mesmers have so few dodges they're a laughable 1v1. I really don't know what mesmer is supposed to be right now.

I didn't even see that the OP was saying easy mode doesn't give Leggie rewards/achievements, I would have left this alone if I had noticed. I'm fine with the hard mode having certain unique rewards, but not legendaries. Legendaries are the end game and by locking them out of any easy mode, you're locking people out of long-term engagement, because that is the long term engagement in this game outside of sheer enjoyment. I'm fine with the LI or equivalent drop rates being lower than the hardmodes, but feel it would be a mistake not to have access to legendary rewards at that level.

I support hard modes because I accept that there's players that want hard challenges and want to be rewarded for them, and that's completely fine. The elite in this game are tired too and feel abandoned. They know everything and my understanding is the last wing was a bit of a disappointment in terms of difficulty. Right now, raids in their current state aren't serving either end of the community, and ideally, Anet should want to cater to both. I know I'm going to be flamed by hardcore raiders for my suggestion, but in reality, if the only reason they raid is for a reward others can't have, then they're driven by toxic elitism, and not by love of the game mode. And I'm actually not opposed to something special, like maybe an infusion with a low drop rate for the harder modes.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> I'm not invalidating players experience, that would not even be possible given experience is subjective. I'm saying that there is a level of ineptitude which does not need be catered to balance wise.

I would agree with this in theory, but your level of what you consider ineptitude is way too high and/or does not factor in community realities. I.E. even if an alternative is possible the community may not accept said alternative, and doesn't in many cases.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Players who want to raid in this game are raiding, or at least the vast majority is. If sharing assets with other content is of primary concern, there is a ton of stuff which could be done which would be more beneficial than easy mode raids. Harping on half truths from the past because the overall games population is in decline in order to prove some point or make some type of assumption of how things could have been is just baseless speculation, especially when unfounded in recent game developments.

> >

> > False. Lots of people in one of my guilds are giving up because they don't feel they can make DPS numbers. One of the people in question is a little older if they've been telling the truth of gchat, I still think it's hilarious that GW2 raiders don't think GW2 raids are more technically challenging that other MMOs. I'd LOVE to just throw ya'll behind normal-ish geared toons into a heroic raid with some flasks and see what you folks do lol. Many people do not raid in this game due to a combination or difficulty and/or community issues (which imo, stem from the difficulty).

> >

> > EDIT: in fact there's people on this thread communicating that they want to but can't for whatever reason.

>

> Sure what ever you say. I've heard it all before in the most common reason is: people unwillingness or inability to actually get the knowledge they require from experienced raiders.

>

> As far as damage, sorry but when there is auto attack builds which literally require not pushing of buttons AT ALL to meet damage requirements for the easier wings, I am calling bs. What people most likely lack is the correct build for their skill level and just go to snowcrows and get meta builds (if at all, most just use their run of the mill trash build), then fail at rotations no matter how hard or easy those might be. Well there are tons of non meta builds which are far easier and provide more than enough dps for any raid content (bar maybe some CMs like Dhuum CM).

>

> That would of course require interacting with other players who might have that knowledge or even using simple google or youtube searches.

>

> We have players of ages mid 50+ successfully raid in one of my more casual guilds (and actually on meta classes, not "easy rotation" builds), so I fail to see how age is a huge issue.

It's not BS, that was literally one of the reasons they gave. I can't speak to the amount of research they did, etc, but I can tell you they felt inadequate. I love how you like to control other people's experiences like they're not real. Perhaps they're not doing everything they should. Perhaps the commmunity is judging them too much for bringing a build optimized for their play style, I can't say, but you can't say that people's experiences aren't valid. And there's literally not enough of you to go around talking sense to fix this issue, the numbers of participation and the amount of frustration, here and on the forums is very real, and I'm not just talking about my own experiences. The OP is someone other than me. Other complaints in this thread aren't from me. You may not be wrong that there are solutions, but it's obvious they're not ubiquitously known enough to fix these problems.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > You're not accounting for these being **UNIQUE** rewards which are not available elsewhere in the game.

> > > >

> > > > IMO they're not. The mistforged variants of WvW and PVP armor have more up to date graphics and coalescence almost makes me gag with its graphic. Also, other MMOs deprecate old content making it easier to grab the unique things, which was my main point. Mythic Antorus is the only place you can earn the corresponding tier set. WoW DOES have a few rewards that go away, but they're clearly communicated and a 100% drop rate so even filthy casuals can just farm some gold and buy a run (a single boss kill actually) and they're done (doing the same thing in GW2 costs WAY more cash in real dollars if we're talking the leggies as you have to pay for 150-300 kills depending on your account and what exactly we're talking about).

> > > >

> > > > updated for accuracy.

> > >

> > > Personal preference is not the same as there being no unique rewards.

> > >

> > > As I had said in another part of the post you quoted, Anet has specifically stated that they would “depreciate” older raids as time went on.

> >

> > I think you meant to say "would not" because your previous post was contrarian to me suggesting they should. Do you have a source on this? Do the versions of the armors look that different to you? The heavy ones look VERY similar except for a few pieces. But okay. If that makes you feel special then fine.

>

> Yeah, I meant would not. I'll try to find a source but I believe it was a video so it may be more difficult to find. Essentially is was them commenting about how raids in other MMOs became obsolete when new ones were added and they wanted to avoid that. They also brought up the elite maps from GW1 which have remained challenging.

>

> Considering the the legendary armor skins are unique, along with animations, I'd say that they are unique. Also look at all of the skins, minis, and so on that are available from doing raids. Do they exist outside of raids? No. They do not.

>

> EDIT: Found their announcement about raids. At around the 14 minute mark is where he starts talking about not wanting the content to be depreciated over time. It's also stated that raids are intended for those that are looking for a challenge as they're designed to be the most challenging content in the game. This is echoed through their various blogs and one or two dev posts on the forums.

>

>

Nice research!

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > You're not accounting for these being **UNIQUE** rewards which are not available elsewhere in the game.

> >

> > IMO they're not. The mistforged variants of WvW and PVP armor have more up to date graphics and coalescence almost makes me gag with its graphic. Also, other MMOs deprecate old content making it easier to grab the unique things, which was my main point. Mythic Antorus is the only place you can earn the corresponding tier set. WoW DOES have a few rewards that go away, but they're clearly communicated and a 100% drop rate so even filthy casuals can just farm some gold and buy a run (a single boss kill actually) and they're done (doing the same thing in GW2 costs WAY more cash in real dollars if we're talking the leggies as you have to pay for 150-300 kills depending on your account and what exactly we're talking about).

> >

> > updated for accuracy.

>

> Personal preference is not the same as there being no unique rewards.

>

> As I had said in another part of the post you quoted, Anet has specifically stated that they would “depreciate” older raids as time went on.

I think you meant to say "would not" because your previous post was contrarian to me suggesting they should. Do you have a source on this? Do the versions of the armors look that different to you? The heavy ones look VERY similar except for a few pieces. But okay. If that makes you feel special then fine.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Players who want to raid in this game are raiding, or at least the vast majority is. If sharing assets with other content is of primary concern, there is a ton of stuff which could be done which would be more beneficial than easy mode raids. Harping on half truths from the past because the overall games population is in decline in order to prove some point or make some type of assumption of how things could have been is just baseless speculation, especially when unfounded in recent game developments.

False. Lots of people in one of my guilds are giving up because they don't feel they can make DPS numbers. One of the people in question is a little older if they've been telling the truth of gchat, I still think it's hilarious that GW2 raiders don't think GW2 raids are more technically challenging that other MMOs. I'd LOVE to just throw ya'll behind normal-ish geared toons into a heroic raid with some flasks and see what you folks do lol. Many people do not raid in this game due to a combination or difficulty and/or community issues (which imo, stem from the difficulty).

EDIT: in fact there's people on this thread communicating that they want to but can't for whatever reason.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Then this layer of difficulty serves no purpose as gateway or training mechanism for raids.

> > Yes. Indeed, the usefulness of such mode for training, while existing, should never be considered as an important factor. It would be less important, than, for example, segregating "players who have different approaches and goals for a mode", so they won't end meeting in the same group.

> >

>

> You nicely skipped the second part of the response where I commented on what another poster suggested that even an easy mode might very well attract players with different goals, which makes the entire approach of segregation meaningless. Besides splitting the player base even further.

>

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > All it does is redistribute rewards to lower tiers and potentially allow reuse of assets.

> > "Redistribution" assumes raiders would lose something - which they wouldn't.

>

> read:

> > redistribute verb

> >

> > 2: to spread to other areas

> - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/redistribute

>

> English might not be my mother tongue, but to me it seems you are using only part of this words definition. For clarity's sake though, I could have also stated that access to rewards was being redistributed.

>

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > Why would you, if you love raiding, be opposed to more people experiencing the same content you do, and progress at a slower pace? If you love the game mode, you should want more involvement, even if it's not at your level because then *GASP* anet has a reason to develop more of your difficult content of choice. And heck, these people are also not trying to take anything from you by suggesting your more difficult method be more rewarding (as it should be). Hardcore players already whine the raids aren't difficult enough. There's no reason for people to complain about difficulty if there's an alternate method of getting the same rewards. And then you still get the *CHALLENGING* content you and the rest of the raid community claim you want (and you and anet don't have to worry about the haters if there's an easy mode and can go all-out). it's a win-win and legendary armor/ring isn't so special any more.

>

> In the past there was already constraint on the resources devoted to raid content, which in some of our opinions is the ACTUAL reason for this content decline. Just like Spvp, WvW and fractals, which have seen similar decline due to lack of attention and content. Spreading the same amount of resources across multiple difficulties would have meant even less content in terms of actual raids OR requiring more developer attention, which in turn would have meant less content in other areas, most likely other PvE.

>

> So no, it's not a win-win especially if we consider that as some have pointed out, easy raids might not even address some of the issues which players argue for: most notably a better way to enter the content.

>

> If this is about only easier access to the rewards, everyone can have their own stance on it, but it is something far different than "we need easy raids for training purposes".

>

> As far as the current situation and if there is no development resources allocated, then sure, any resources spent on any part of the mode might be in some way beneficial. That's a very different outset than the past though and again, requires resources be pulled from other content.

>

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > You're not accounting for these being **UNIQUE** rewards which are not available elsewhere in the game.

> >

> > IMO they're not. The mistforged variants of WvW and PVP armor have more up to date graphics and coalescence almost makes me gag with its graphic. Also, other MMOs deprecate old content making it easier to grab the unique things, which was my main point. Mythic Antorus is the only place you can earn the corresponding tier set. WoW DOES have a few rewards that go away, but they're clearly communicated and a 100% drop rate so even filthy casuals can just farm some gold and buy a run (a single boss kill actually) and they're done (doing the same thing in GW2 costs WAY more cash in real dollars if we're talking the leggies as you have to pay for 150-300 kills depending on your account and what exactly we're talking about).

> >

> > updated for accuracy.

>

> The first part is subjective and if the other armor is more to your liking, what do you care if the inferior one is accessible to you or not.

I actually don't, I just don't see it as that inconsistent with MMOs in general to make it more accessible as the content ages. If I find the right group, I'll gladly raid, if not I'll just keep my random poking at it every now and then, I think I'm more interested in completing the collections for envoy because OCD and that's it. I'm not crying at night or jealous of those skins. Even though I don't have my targeted WvW mistforged armor yet.

Also, the visuals are only partially subjective - they had more time to work on and improve visual techniques after the release of the Maguuma raid armors (the first truly legendarily visual armors), I'm sure you'll find some people who like the maguuma armors better, but I'm also sure most people will find the improved PVP/WvW legendary armors better (I'm specifically referring to the ones that require higher rank in both to craft).

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> You're not accounting for these being **UNIQUE** rewards which are not available elsewhere in the game.

IMO they're not. The mistforged variants of WvW and PVP armor have more up to date graphics and coalescence almost makes me gag with its graphic. Also, other MMOs deprecate old content making it easier to grab the unique things, which was my main point. Mythic Antorus is the only place you can earn the corresponding tier set. WoW DOES have a few rewards that go away, but they're clearly communicated and a 100% drop rate so even filthy casuals can just farm some gold and buy a run (a single boss kill actually) and they're done (doing the same thing in GW2 costs WAY more cash in real dollars if we're talking the leggies as you have to pay for 150-300 kills depending on your account and what exactly we're talking about).

updated for accuracy.

> @"Katary.7096" said:

> > @"chrispy.7182" said:

> >

> > I see your point. But you could remedy this by:

> >

> > 1) Severely nerfing the rewards. So in the normal Radi ti takes, what, 6 weeks is it to get 150 LI? So in the easy version it would take maybe 6 months or something. Frankly, all the people who play the easy version are the people who are never going to play the normal version because of the barrier to entry. So they will have no problem waiting 6 months to get their legendary armour.

> Why make the reward nerf this complicated? Simply remove LI, LD, Minis, Skins and Achievements and call it a day.

To give people an alternative to WvW for legendary armor/ring mats? Honestly no one needs to touch raids to cover every slot at this point. I can literally kill guards for hours on end roaming in WvW and the game will shove legendary crafting materials up my kitten. (sure I'll have to cap and/or kill another player every so often, but it's not that hard).

Why would you, if you love raiding, be opposed to more people experiencing the same content you do, and progress at a slower pace? If you love the game mode, you should want more involvement, even if it's not at your level because then *GASP* anet has a reason to develop more of your difficult content of choice. And heck, these people are also not trying to take anything from you by suggesting your more difficult method be more rewarding (as it should be). Hardcore players already whine the raids aren't difficult enough. There's no reason for people to complain about difficulty if there's an alternate method of getting the same rewards. And then you still get the *CHALLENGING* content you and the rest of the raid community claim you want (and you and anet don't have to worry about the haters if there's an easy mode and can go all-out). it's a win-win and legendary armor/ring isn't so special any more.

Did you know the 2 versions of conflux are unique? You can leggie every slot not stepping into a raid ONCE (and honestly, I think that's great given the state of the content and community atm, it's great if it's with people you know/aren't judgy & in a static), I've never been able to make the second part of that happen, probably never will (the one guild I have that does training runs is completely open so kills are too hit or miss to be worth doing it all the time, even fi I could get my schedule to cooperate consistently)).

Also, I don't know about FFXIV, but in WoW, you can just go back and solo all the bosses in old content (n-2 expac for weaker classes, n-1 expansion and beyond for ones with self-heals) if you want the old tier sets. If Anet doesn't fix raiding, I think they should add a mastery in EOD or IB that makes farming the bosses easier like this. It's old, mostly dead content, why not let players experience it/farm the cosmetics? WoW also changes the loot rules in this setting (usually to make it easier to get the transmogs, but in GW2 we have to consider breaking the economy), the same could be done in this scenario. maybe they wouldn't drop the 2g, the Exotic, anything that will break the economy, but relevant items for achievements etc still do. They can also disable special achievements that were intended for only high difficulty when the kill involved the mastery (just like AOTC in WoW).

Obviously they should have a way to disable this mastery so what few people are still raiding are still raiding & get the full rewards, but honestly the content, especially W1-W4 are so old, they deserve a deprecation path like this if we want GW2 comparable to other MMOs. I also believe the raiding community is getting weaker, not stronger right now, all I've seen is anecdotal but that's my impresson.

Like in general the content just doesn't pull people in, like it lacks hype and I just don't get why. I finally got around to doing the Elegy Armor collection a month or so ago and I feel like that was one of my most powerful story experiences ever in an MMO. I understand that most LW episodes aren't Jahai "A star to guide us" level awesome, but I feel like if the quality is there, there should be a way to pull more people in.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"chrispy.7182" said:

> > > > This is the reason why I stopped playing. They need to make two versions of the raids in my opinion. One is the normal tier we have now, and the other is a beginners tier. The beginners tier will have the same mechanics but will be much more forgiving (less damage) so that people can pug and get to know the mechanics. The rewards from these would be less obviously. But it would just give new people space to practice until they know the raids and can then enter the higher tier when they know the mechanics.

> > >

> > > If its to forgiving people will just out heal it and ignore the mechanics and learning nothing.

> > >

> > > I say just make it the same nerf rewards and take away the timer.

> > >

> > > People can go full defence and still learn nothing but complete it.

> > > But if they really want to learn they learn with the true severity of the mechanics.

> > > Edit

> > > Ofcourse no normal achievement progress, they could add other aps to it tho.

> >

> > Once you take away AP/LIs, you might as well just do strikes instead.

>

> The reasons being given for training and story must all be BS then. Just an excuse to get the rewards easier.

Maybe not, but as others have stated, there's powerful enough defensive mechanisms that you're not really getting much in the way of training. Story you can just watch a youtube video. I mean rewards is what 90% of the player base are playing for. Otherwise why would PuGs and so many statics recruiting have such stringent KP requirements? People want rewards FAST. I can't read into the other's intentions. See my post below though because I feel like you're trying to say people don't deserve to earn those slots not doing the exact same thing as you.