Moradorin.6217

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > Usually a competent thief would win that match-up or be able to get away. The mesmer has a chance to kill the thief because it has very low hp so if the opponent can cc in time, that is, basically stun 2-3 times then burst they can squish the thief; Likewise if they stun/rupt and burst while the thief is dealing with breaking and next move than the opponent can win. However, as we all know, a good thief knows this and plans for it. That is **unless they are playing sloppy**. the mindful thief would plan for that and make sure it has a strategy to win and disengage if something fails. That is what thieves do. They pick out a good target, attack and either get a quick kill or reset when the opponent is not what the thief thought they reset and vanish into the mist, Thief is the best at doing this. > > How can you talk about what a competent thief would do when you still skill click, and backpeddle. You are not in the bracket where you even understand what a competent thief can or would do...ill explain > > Firstly, Majority of thief you see in Ranked will not take on a 1v1 on any class unless it's Mesmer. The only reason they decide to do this is because of stealing ecto, and using the ecto give self resistance. This resistance helps sustain condition damage to negate pressure against a condition Mesmer. Ecto is literally the only reason they stick around in the fight. If thief misses steal and can't secure the ecto, they will disengage, because they DO NOT have the capacity to sustain any kind of condition pressure. If they miss Steal on Mesmer, especially a Mirage, it's a sign of inexp thieves that hasn't learned how to fight a mesmer. (Or in the rare case, fights a really good mesmer that knows how to stack dodges or predict steal) > > Ecto has now been nerfed, so i don't even know if the above is even applicable anymore, but prior to ecto nerf, this was the decision basis for thief in ranked, and really any 1v1 between mesmer-thief. > > As for other classes, exp thieves will at least learn how to duel these classes so that when they need to burst these classes, they will know what to avoid as counter pressure, and when to apply their damage. This is why almost all vet thieves know each other...because we duel all the time. Duel Arena being empty and dead, is a sign that all the vet thieves have left. > > In other words, thief has to know 10x more knowledge about the game in order to actually play it well, whereas, you can skill click and backpeddle and abuse clone ai to land your damage on any class with relative ease. So your argument is that the plat soldier (over 3500 rank) who attacked me lost because thief is weak, because according to you, me ,the guy who won 2x, is a noob (im rank 900) and the poor inexperienced thief (plat rank and instigated attack every time) died due to lack of experience to the less skilled mesmer.... Your argument really has zero merit. I would say what I think of you but then this would get deleted. By ecto do you mean plasma? I know you said yourself you no longer play. Maybe your information is out of date?

> @"Sylvia.4870" said: > > @"mrt.7813" said: > > Hello friends > > > > I've been playing since 2013 This is lately the thieves got into the game > > > > How is it logic to fly 3000 range using a skill? > > shotbow 5 time needs to be added > > invisibility times need to be reduced > > Keep / Gari Hiding Members Always non-stop. > > 10 people run after a thief now it has become cancer-like I do not understand > > what should we players do? I push logical explanation Regulations must come to thieves. > > > > we know the logic for thief but not that much When it comes 2 3, it goes out of range in 1 2 seconds no class like this If you run away and recover, dive behind you in 1 or 2 seconds and make waves, the crime here is in the areanenet team. > > > > 10 people run after a thief now it has become cancer-like I do not understand > > what should we players do? I push logical explanation Regulations must come to thieves. we eventually have to swear or insult the games! > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Reduce the time for being in stealth? Want to cancel it? Use a tool, which causes the 'Revealed' debuff to them or use any skills that make them unable to enter stealth for a moment(Ranger, Revenant, Dragonhunter, Holosmith can counter the ones who use stealth well). Don't chase them if they desire to retreat to any friendly objectives of theirs. Want to lock them down? Use pulling skills, immobilizing skills, daze, knockdown, make them float into the air, make them stunned in one spot where they stand and use every main sources of damage you have to take them down. That's it. They will have no chances to run and fall down for real. You must time all of the skills on them accordingly and make sure they have no other utility skills and elite skills left to use against you. Good hunting, sir! not every class has access to revealed

Usually a competent thief would win that match-up or be able to get away. The mesmer has a chance to kill the thief because it has very low hp so if the opponent can cc in time, that is, basically stun 2-3 times then burst they can squish the thief; Likewise if they stun/rupt and burst while the thief is dealing with breaking and next move than the opponent can win. However, as we all know, a good thief knows this and plans for it. That is **unless they are playing sloppy**. the mindful thief would plan for that and make sure it has a strategy to win and disengage if something fails. That is what thieves do. They pick out a good target, attack and either get a quick kill or reset when the opponent is not what the thief thought they reset and vanish into the mist, Thief is the best at doing this.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > > > > > "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing *by choice*. Class broken because it can run away". > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this what you've just said? > > > > > > > > Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =) > > > > > > In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting". > > > > The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it. > > > > **The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight** if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable. > > ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before). > > You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from. > And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground. > You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw. You really make no sense. I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over. What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing *by choice*. Class broken because it can run away". > > > > > > Isn't this what you've just said? > > > > Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =) > > In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting". The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it. The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing *by choice*. Class broken because it can run away". > > Isn't this what you've just said? Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

That is a good suggestion. I forgot about that. I still think we could use a gobbler for them though.

> @"Kelly.7019" said: > I hope i'm not blind, but i don't see an Obsiian Shard Eater. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Shard > I have about 12 stacks of these **Obsidian Shards** sitting in my bank. 3-5 stacks are for possible future legendaries or w/e but the rest is just over kill. A shard eater would be nice, but i generally think not great rewards comes from those and these a mats are precious! ~~Maybe find a way to put them in other things for requirements/sinks for good rewards?~~ Ok well i see there are other things to use em for that i either have or don't want apparently. :) Just to be clear i've played the game since launch so I have plenty of them and storage is a problem & deleting them is a poor solution. :( I still think an eater would be nice. > > _p.s. I saw another post on this but I thought bumping a 3 year old post would put me on anet's naughty list, so tada!_ I would love to see a shard gobbler too. I have thousands of extra oby shards and I have already make many legendary weapons, backpack, armor, trinket, etc. I get oby shards much faster than I would ever use them. I like your suggestion allot!

> @"Vancho.8750" said: > Here you go https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fulgurite . Again, nope. Only useful when you want to make a gen 2 legendary.

> @"paShadoWn.5723" said: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Mossi#vendor49 NO he wants usefull things, not things only useful to make a legendary via a collection. I mean most of the legendary collections are a dead loss to even do before considering the time sink. That isn't actually helpful.

> @"sutasafaia.4872" said: > Without getting into too much detail, the tldr is I have hand issues and reaction time issues. The easier a class is to play the better off I'll be, otherwise there's a fair chance I won't even be able to play it to begin with. This is basically my first time back in almost two years so figured I would ask before diving in head first since the classes have likely changed a bit since I last played. Obviously this means I avoid PvP and high end content so you don't really need to take any of that into account. I suppose if I had an understanding guild I might try some of it eventually but it's really not a concern for me. > > I've been hunting around for ideas, the big ones that seem to get repeated a lot are minion necro (scourge and reaper have both been recommended), a bearbow ranger, and a staff mirage? I was under the impression mesmer was pretty hard to play and required a lot of movement but it does seem to get recommended a lot so figured I would ask about it. > > Any help is appreciated. I've been missing MMO's a lot lately and after having tried a few others, this seems to be the one that was recommended again for being easier to play. Far less skill/button bloat than most other MMO's for certain. Personally, I would say staff Mirage is probably going to take allot more key spam than a MM Necro its also pretty squishy too. Im asuming rapid key spam is not what you want to do. In that case I wouldn't play a Mirage. Necro really can get away with mostly f1+ auto attacks and a little movement. Maybe a heal, stun break at the correct time v but even in pvp many necro just f1 shroud auto attack + fear, drop shroud then f1 back into it. That ends up being 3 keys with some time delay in between.

> @"Kirin.7306" said: > 283 discussions 4.7K comments. Look at any other game mode forums and tell me again why ANET wastes resources on this. Just end it already and spend time on game modes we actually want to play. As others have pointed out poeple post all over the forums about Living World. Personally, I think LW has been pretty great over the years. The Saga content is less elaborate and not as great as lw3 and 4 to me. Mostly the thing that has kept me from getting into Saga as much is the way MPs are dealt with. Its the first time I have ever just literally decided I dont care if I don't re-max my MPs because I dont want to do all the meta achievement grinding and map grinding and crafting required JUST for MPs that are pretty useless, at least outside Saga. That said, in general, I have always really enjoyed LW content on release and on revisit and I know many others do too. Not everyone likes every release, but I think LW is pretty darn popular overall.

Yea that makes sense.

> @"Orpheus.7891" said: > I've tried searching but the forum search function is absolutely terrible, is there any other way to figure out the guild I was in? > edit: I've done a Discord Data request to see if I can get a list of past servers but that could take as long as 30 days so I'm hoping there is a better way gw2efficiency.com might let you see. If you put in an API key and use the time machine thing to look at your account at the date in question. It lets you see how your account was in the past and guild data is included in the data is shows. Im not 100% sure rolling the date back includes which guild but I expect it does.

> @"Local is Lekker.2970" said: > I played at the start of the covid pandemic, and after a really hard time got my Engineer to 80. I started working on map completion and used the hero points I got to unlock and learn Holo. I started playing again a few days ago and decided to instead go scrapper. That was a huge mistake unfortunately. My engineer is now extremely underpowered that I have finally gotten to the expansions/living world. It is really hard to kill things, and I die very easily, even with Dire equipment. > > To be honest, if there isnt a way to fix this, my alternatives to is delete the character or stop playing again. I hope you can give me a possible solution on how to reset the hero points I have spent somehow. The situation isn't nearly as bad as you are imagining. You have many rather simple options. You can make due with scrapper and find a commander doing a Hero Point train, you can shout in each map and group with others also working on HPs(almost always a few people doing hps in each map 24/7). You can get a set of Nika's armor for about 3-5g (entire set) its Medium Berserker with Infiltrator runes. It would give you gear for power build options. You can camp your engi and try another class or two. You sound like you may benefit from joining a friendly guild. Many are happy to help people figure these kinds of things out and maybe even help with gear and such. No reason to give up. Just give the game a chance. HPs, MPs, gear, etc are much less of an issue in the long run than I think you are imagining. GW2 is rather flexible but some times people have pervious experiences with other games that make them falsely think situations like this are much more serious than they are.

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player *clicking* their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (_which they claim *DO NOT* exist_) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > > > Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :( > > > > > > > > > > > > I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do. > > > > > > > > Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but *anything* that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer. > > > > > > Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it. > > > > Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief. > > Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times. Yea I would agree. Ele arguably has allot more low risk options, and others too. I think you may miss understand, the point was that thief has ALLOT of reset potential. I never attempted to say thief is OP or that I wana see thief nerfs. So Im not sure what the point of your response is nor do I see any point in doing what your propose. Again, the best thing all u thieves can do if you dont want more nerfs is to chill out and stop attacking people who make reasonable points about your class. If anything you are liable to point out the remaining strengths of your class, which from my experience leads to more nerfs. Just some friendly advice.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > > > @"darren.1064" said: > > > > kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild. > > > > > The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be. > > > > > > The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer. > > > > > This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest... > > > > Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333 > > Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555 > > DE of past: kneel mark 1 done > > LOL skillz of the artform > > Okay, how bout you go record a video into ranked on thief and try doing a 5555555 and see how far you get. hint, you won't get very far if you are a skill clicker. > > Please i would LOVE to see this video. You talk the talk, now walk the walk. LoL bounding ftw was funny when it was OP Bounding: February 25, 2020 Competitive content update: (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%. May 16, 2017 Bound: The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only. April 28, 2020 This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition. Vault: February 25, 2020 Competitive content update: (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6. December 11, 2018 The damage of this attack will no longer occur if the thief shadowsteps after the skill has begun. May 16, 2017 The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only. Weakening Charge February 25, 2020 Competitive content update: (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second. Hey Justice, you said you no longer play this game so by your definition of walking the walk you have no legs.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > i do not really thing a real high rank thief can loose to a skill mouse clicker... He is plat rank so over 3,245...Its not how u activate the skills ITS WHEN AND WHY! *eye roll*

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"darren.1064" said: > > kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild. > The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be. > > The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer. > This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest... Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333 Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555 DE of past: kneel mark 1 done LOL skillz of the artform

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter. > > Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while. I remember people thinking Mirage was shit after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mesmer has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

Yea I think Mirage got WAY more nerfs I think if you take a look at the Mesmer forums you would realize Mesmer is mostly a dead class. compare the number of recent posts in thief forum of peoples gameplay videos, builds, etc from JUST this month and compare to how many you see in the Mesmer forum. Mesmer is mostly dead outside select uses. Mesmer has very few actual trait options.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Oh please. OPs thread was arguing that thief isnt OP. It never was, it just was mandatory as a decap and +1 bot. You then tried to pivot it to WvW, where thief not only wasnt "OP" in a very long time, but is actively *bad* right now. > > Actually, specifically, I was responding after reading: **@Yasai.3549 said: Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP? Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.** Which made me think about the video I just made after looking up at OPs topic and then I posted my video for an example of thief reset potential. My error (if any) was to quote the OP and not Yasai.

You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Also in general I will repeat. I think using a combination of 1-0 and the rest of your keys with one hand while you also click skills with the mouse is required to function. Its some serious nit picking, petty, bullshit to bring it up and an obvious distraction from the actual topic. How else would you for example blink up onto a ledge.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > @"lightstalker.1498" said: > > > > > I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift. > > > > > > > > Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails. > > > > > > Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player *clicking* their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW. > > > > Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones. > > > > I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition. > > > For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me. > > > > Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die. > > > With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again **IF the DD Chooses** it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD! > > > > Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not. > > > The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy) > > > > Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen. > > > Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a _super pro gamer bro_ type of player so what ever dude. > > No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know, *backstab*, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still. Also to be clear. When I posted that I wasn't actually trying to say thief is OP in pvp specifically or that it has no counter or anything, infinite reset is much more useful in wvw and they have access to a wider range of stats that help them get kills very effectively when roaming, with little risk thanks to the ability to reset continually on a number of builds not just DD d/p. I was more posting this after reading: > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP? > Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC. > > PvP? No such thing. > If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control. ...and was attempting to agree that in WvW thief is very strong thanks to things like reset potential. I wasn't actually trying to say Thief is crazy OP. I think one dodge is rather under powered and the fact that I think DD d/p thief should be able to own cmirage typically doesn't imply that thief is OP. I am trying to agree that they have crazy amounts of stealth and mobility that gives them often infinite reset potential. I would say DE is arguably better at the stealth, burst, reset, repeat thing in more safety in wvw. Thief is hella common around in wvw still more so than Mirage for sure. "*backstab*, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder?" yep why do you think I kept trying to move my back around and throw up refelctions + cripple for. Lets face it I'm just talking about the OPs thread and you are just attempting to make personal attacks to make your outrage clear now that thief is LESS OP than it was before. Just like I'm bitter that Mirage has one fucking dodge while DD has 3. Yet at the same time I'm not trying to call for nerfs to thief am I? Im not trying to insult or belittle anyone, am I? I just made a reasonable response to this post (although I did forget to quote Yasai). You seem very defensive about thief as a whole. I can relate to feeling passionate about a class. Try to understand I'm not trying to attack your favorite class per say. I was trying to agree that in wvw thiefs reset ability can, at least seem, infinite. I think you should chill. I could continue to try and quote all the shit you are asserting and respond but I don't see the point. You will continue to try and make it personal rather than about classes and gameplay. *shrug* Happy New Year