Za Shaloc.3908

If I had to diagnose the problems the legend/support role faces, it's, well...many things: * Ventari is too designated as the dedicated support legend, causing the rest of the class kit to suffer. * Ventari doesn't actually do a very good job at supporting. * Weapon skills being poor for legitimate support (Staff is a utility weapon with a splash of healing, shield is more defensive than supportive...and that's it) only further compound this issue. * The allied heal skills are unnecessarily overcomplicated and dysfunctional. Staff 2 has a small radius, triggers at the location of impact, and is only increased if a target is hit. Staff 4 is ok at best but has a rather long cast time, shield 4 is a special snowflake skill that not only has a slow travel time, but also a relatively small radius. Ventari suffers the same problem. **The skills are so impractical in actual real scenarios** (in WvW), *especially* since superspeed spam is so common. Oh yeah, let's not talk about the impracticality of healing orbs. * Boons are so reliant on Glint and Renegade that the class feels boon-starved at its core. And then that's the only support that Glint really offers (the legend itself, not the traitline). Elemental Blast and Burst of Strength offer no boost to support potential. They removed traits like AoE regen on tablet pulse and AoE prot on heal skill use, which were both *really incredibly* nice for the class outside of Glint builds. Now what would *I* do? I have a whole lot of ideas. * Transform traits that alter (or completely change) the function of skills. Due to Rev's rather restrictive legend system and limited weapon repertoire, I think this would benefit the support potential a ton. Some ideas: * Salvation trait: Mace 2 is converted to a water field that pulses heal/regen instead of pulsing damage/burning. Staff 4 has 2 charges * Herald trait: Elemental Blast is converted to an AoE pulsing heal skill that cleanses/converts condis. Have Burst of Strength increasing incoming healing on affected targets. * More interesting traits in Salvation that replace orbs. They simply clutter the traitline far too much. Remove them and offer different ways of supporting, such as group cleansing and better boon support. I'd like one to give interaction on blast finishers personally since Rev theoretically has a ton of interaction with them. * Make weapon skills less clunky. Make staff 2 heal PBAoE with the greater heal amount at all times, and instead have it grant regen if *NO* enemies are hit. Speed up the cast time of Staff 4 by like .15s. Make shield 4 a conal effect with 2 charges (but less prot). There just needs to be more practicality. The orbs on AA staff chain should just be changed to 180r healing. * Gear Invocation a bit more towards group support. The dps bias is real in this line. Perhaps give fury a support-like interaction in its major adept line so that the minor traits actually serve a purpose? Charged Mists carries hard. Spirit Boon's 240 radius holds it back a bit in WvW; perhaps increase its radius to 300-360 in WvW only. * More of a personal wish, but I'd like to see a wee bit of synergy within Corruption & Retribution to give them a touch bit more group support (ex: Fiendish Tenacity no longer grants resistance on swap but instead causes *all* resistance you apply to heal (meaning it heals allies, and Versed in Stone to apply AoE stab (with a 45s CD) on elite skill usage. Mallyx and Jalis are really great as-is IMO, but incentivizing taking Corruption for better support in Mallyx, for example, would be pretty cool for the core class). * I'd like to honestly see a complete rework to Ventari at this point. IMO it should stop trying to be so unique and become homogenized to the functionality of the other core legends. Make it not totally unrealistic for a better variety of builds. This is a deeper vision that I haven't really thought of all the answers for, but, just some ideas... * Make its heal (#6) skill the actual meaty AoE heal. Keep its cost at 5 energy and give it a potency similar to that of the CA version of Glyph of Rejuvenation. 30s CD, but more of the class' overall healing is transferred to its weapon skills so it makes more sense and is a bit more normalized to other classes. * Give it a linear 900 range charge/trample that knocks down enemies in path and heals and/or grants boons to allies. Mobility would be huge. We need some centaur RP too. * Keep Purifying Essence an AoE cleanse, but make it trigger at the player and make it an AoE stunbreak w/ 30 energy. Increase its radius to 360. * Not really sure how to change the bubble, what to change the elite to, or how to incorporate an upkeep skill for the legend. I don't actually think that the current bubblespam potential is healthy for the game, but it should still have some sort of anti-projectile effect. I don't think its knockback spam potential is healthy either. I'd like for the elite to be the upkeep skill, I just really don't know what the kitten to do with it. Just some thoughts. I've become totally disheartened playing Ventari builds since the big balance patch.

Been trying to still observe patterns as to how this triggers. Some more notes: * Trying to swap templates with legend swap still on CD seems to trigger the bug a lot (the swap wont go through, but once the CD is up it'll more likely be messed up). Seems to be the case with weapon swap too. * if I try to spam immediately after exiting combat (spamming the button waiting for OOC), it seems more likely to mess up. * More likely to happen if I am swapping between multiple templates too fast. I change builds a *lot*, and in the past week I have only had the bug occur on me once. Trying to take these precautions and the ones listed in my previous post seems to help this a lot. Most notable one for me still is trying to swap builds while mounted. I will dismount before changing build templates no matter what now.

Lol great video. The most fun I have in WvW is when I am trolling like that. Whenever I am outnumbered and near any elevation, I like to bring out my Ventari bubble and spam the knockback on people. Watching this vid makes me want to go to RBL more often.

I have tried building around making a Shiro build anti-condition in the past, and while it can be effective, I prefer to just roam on power accepting that I just have to walk away from some condi builds. I more often than not run core Jalis/Shiro when I run power, and the cleansing from staff, cleansing sigil, swapping, and dwarf heal tends to be enough. With that ssid, sometimes I just have to walk away from certain matchups, like condi Herald. Since the Incensed Response nerf, I am back to using Speed Runes which much more easily allow me to disengage from unwanted fights. It doesn't really bother me that some matchups are losing because I can outrun most condi builds and I like the benefits of what my build offers me. Perhaps not the answer you are looking for, but I would rather be able to run Jalis and Shiro together, and I like Retri, Invo, and Deva too much to sacrifice for Corruption. I don't doubt a build like @""Yasai.3549"'s could work for fighting conditions, and Mallyx is honestly strong even on power builds with the CC and boonrip, but I like my stab road, hammers, and taunt too much lol. I win most of my matchups against condi builds luckily since the skill level of WvW players is pretty low and cleansing sigil is an absolute blessing. It's crazy how much of a difference that alone makes.

The change I'd personally like to see for Watchtower is to make it an effect you have to actually have to activate (like EWP, Chilling Fog, etc) that lasts for X amount of time with a cooldown. Perhaps it wouldnt be worth to even use at this point, but IMO it brings far too much impact in its current iteration. I would also like to see the same thing done to Cloaking Waters.

Lol I actually feel the same way as you, OP. I love the class but have never been a fan of the red and black aesthetic. I started out playing the class primarily with Ventari/Glint builds and disliked how much most of the weapon animations clash with those color palettes (and the fashion for most of my Revs). Over the years I have gotten better at ignoring it.

I agree, remove the blue tint please.

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said: > > @"Za Shaloc.3908" said: > > To be fair, you posted a GIF before they improved it a bit. > > Dude what? That gif is from nov 2020 made by me. I was just too lazy to make a thread that no dev will care about. There were 0 changes to CoR since. > And yes i play on insta cast cause anything else slows you down by a lot (imagine playing anything else in pvp) and you clearly can see second casdade missing completely so its not out of range either, the animaiton pop right up on the mob > Okay fair enough, I didn't notice the date on there. But yeah, there are still bugs with it and it is frustrating to deal with them, but the skill still functions better than it used to since when they first changed. When I use it in WvW it goes through ~80% of the time whereas when the patch first hit, it would be closer to ~20%.

To be fair, you posted a GIF before they improved it a bit. Does it work flawlessly? Absolutely not. But it works better than it used to when it first got reworked. So either you are posting an old gif or you don't play with AoE indicators. CoR would still hit hard. I would still consistently hit 11.5k+ with it (with Firework runes on because I am too lazy to change them out when I swap builds). The weapon was still very good at spike damage, although yes, the inconsistencies are very frustrating. I can see why they changed it how they did: the 10s CD made the weapon feel bad when the AA's are so slow--there was too much downtime--so now you can pump more out there while not as potent as before. With that said, it does bother me how hyper-specific of a niche the weapon has. I absolutely wish it was more well-rounded so it could be used legitimately in other game modes. At least for the meantime I can meme people with shortbow 3.

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said: > Traits for weapons were always a horrible idea tbh so im glad they didnt. Rest as above Honestly I really love weapon traits, especially ones like Necro's GM trait that actually alters scepter 3. I wish something like that existed in Salvation, for example, to help make it a better support weapon. Also in the horribly hyper-niche spot hammer is in, I think a trait could benefit it too. The shield trait also gave it a wonderful purpose of helping with condi management.

> @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Heibi.4251" said: > > As of late there is at least one guild using this Rune in WvW as a primary means of gaming the system. The guild has at least 10-20 players running this rune. The golems are there to soak up damage(considering AOEs hit random players in the area) and they have CC. This rune is vastly overpowered for WvW. 60 second lifespan 50,000 health and a 600 damage per second with CC on a 60 second cooldown. You have a golem with CC that does more damage per second than any player CC out there. Imagine 20 players using constant CC that you don't have to worry about reviving because they'll just respawn automatically because you're in combat. These golems make that guild almost unstoppable. Whole map queues can't kill them. With their golems constantly respawning they have more "players" than a map queue in their zerg. Please take a serious look at either banning its use in WvW or changing it's stats massively. 3-4 minute cooldown, 30 second lifespan, 5000 to10,000 health, and no CC(in WvW). Thank you for your time. > > i suggest complete removal of the rune from the game alongside with other 'sleeper' game breaking runes > > - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Air > - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Infiltration > - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Eagle > - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Centaur > > there are far worse ones..... > > -one of the root cause problem in all of this is, it is the ongoing continual repetitive problems of **Stacking**. Ranging from Professions stacking, rune stacking, sigil stacking, armor stats stacking, mechanic stacking, skills stacking. Its just too much of staking happening all at the same time, which is the source of all the problem- > > Example- Thief Profession, Guardian Profession can stack condition damages over conditions damages over condition damages all at the same time > > Stealth- Stacking Stealth on top of Stealth=Permanent Stealth, why? > > Like the Op states, groups are running the same runes and the runes are stacking on top of each other and creating a massive widespread affect of a Mountain of a Powerful Skill, all at the same time > > Superior Rune of the Golemancer- stats---Ferocity stacking on top of each other, why?? > > **Stacking is the core problem.... it is just too much happening, combining stackings all at the same time, why is the need to have so much of it?** > > -Suggestion- set a limit= (**Cap+Lock**) Rune of the Centaur game breaking? Am I missing something?

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > CMC referred to that overpowered on release thing in the podcast interview a few days ago. He said a spec being too strong on release will result in people trying and messing around with it, which is "good" as the new content will actually be played and for playtime statistics for further balancing. He prefers that over a too weak spec, that nobody plays at release. > > So we know what will happen, when the next expac releases... If that is true, sigh. I would be more okay with this philosophy if they actually targeted the nerfs at the elite specs, but history will repeat itself and we will rinse and repeat through the same BS, and the same overperforming specs will remain such for the majority of the expac. PoF was enough to swear me off of PvP for good. Couldn't even bear finishing the first season after it dropped because of how horrendous balance was. Seeing how specs like core Engi and core Mes get butchered because of Holo and Mirage makes me worry for the future of other classes. I am excited for new e-specs simply because it is new content, but I was hoping CMC would be the voice of reason to help keep the e-specs more in check. We will see I guess. I'm still a little foolishly optimistic.

> @"Kichwas.7152" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Doctor.1384" said: > > > The issue with a mainhand 900 ranged weapon as an elite spec addon is that theres no ranged offhand to pair it with as both offhand options are for closing gaps for melee weapons > > There is no issue. You can have a 900 ranged weapon and still close the gap. Also, 900 range doesn’t mean you should be locked at 900. > > > > > > That is essentially the playstyle of any tempest. Scepter / x. Where x is currently Warhorn so ranged both... BUT... the F1-4 overcharge abilities are all melee, and the rotation is all about spamming Overload Air on cooldown. So... it's essentially playing a ranged weapon in melee with 'no downtime when forced to dodge out'. > > My problem here is doing that another scepter user would feel repetitive. I'd rather they just give two new weapons built to be paired. Scepter / Focus or Scepter / Warhorn. > - Summon legends or Calldown Legends. The off-hand would give an ability based on the legend you have equipped but NOT active (better: based on a legend you do not have equipped, but then I'm not sure how they would pick which legend). And both 4 and 5 would be 'blast finishers' designed to hit where scepter 2, as a combo field - went off. The trick then would be ensuring this was superior to pairing it with Mace. > Warhorn summoning an echo of the legend sounds so cool. Would love to use Verdarach on Rev. Still a big fan of focus for Rev too.

I am not a War player, but I main Rev. The Wars that do the best seem to be the ones who understand *when* to CC me with burst available to follow up with it. Power Herald in particular (which I am sure you are referring to) is vulnerable to CC if you are able to pressure it properly. The Wars that are hyperaggressive towards me make it really hard to recover from and kite properly. IMO, pressuring a power Rev after they swap to Shiro is an effective way of forcing them to blow their Riposting Shadows, which will leave them very vulnerable to CC and counterpressure. If they don't have enough energy for another Riposting Shadows and their stunbreak is on cooldown, then it can be a quick GG. There are also things you can do to surprise Revs, such as timing a Bull's Charge or other CC as they Phase Traversal, or just as Unrelenting Assault ends. With that said, it's a losing matchup for you :(.

I think the trait is pretty cool. I am not a Necro player, however I really love playing support Scourge. The biggest thing in my eyes that makes the trait less appealing is that it competes with Desert Empowerment, which feels a little bad if sharing barrier is your goal.

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said: > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > > > > > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > One could say that the need for a condi weapon is a core only issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this has been brought up before on this forum before and several of the vocal Vets will argue incessantly that you just need to run Renegade for condi and that you should forget about having a core option, so dont expect support from the frequent fliers > > > > > > > > > > **The entire point of elite specs is to fill in gaps in the core class and add new playstyles.** Core doesn’t need to be viable for all things (plus Condi core rev is still decently viable even without renegade; it’s just a step down to run it when you can just run Ren instead). > > > > > > > > > > > > > I couldnt disagree more on literally everything you said. > > > > > > Unfortunately for you it doesn’t matter if you disagree with me or not. **This is Anet’s stance on Elite Specs and has been since Heart of Thorns** > > > > I agree with your previous quote. Although I would love more weapons, my biggest issue with the core class is Ventari and its ability to perform as a dedicated support role (which extends to both e-specs as well) especially post-big balance patch. As a pretty diehard core Rev player, the base class is pretty great in most regards. Ancient Echo and an additional core traitline puts it at a totally respectable spot. > > Yeah I agree ventari needs work to be truly viable in Competitive. I think it’s generally good/okay in PvE. A bigger heal radius would be nice and if that isn’t enough then maybe some sort of fundamental rework. > > I agree core is in a good spot too! I only wish we had an extra core legend or set of “invocation” utilities, but even that is more of a “want because I think more options would be cool” than a “the class really needs it.” Yeah I have always thought such an idea would be nice, but when I imagine an invocation line I actually immediately think of Shiro, lol. Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal kinda fulfill that mist-traveler fantasy to me. To be fair to ANet, I'd say all of the core legends are pretty diverse in their application and their role usage aside from Ventari. That's why I've had a change of heart and am in favor of a total rework to Ventari. Still keep it as the most supportive legend, but de-emphasize that role a bit more to make the usage more diverse in other builds, and transfer some of that supportive focus to the weapon skills. At this point I think that would be the healthiest and most hopeful path as much as I hate to admit it.

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > > > One could say that the need for a condi weapon is a core only issue. > > > > > > > > Also, this has been brought up before on this forum before and several of the vocal Vets will argue incessantly that you just need to run Renegade for condi and that you should forget about having a core option, so dont expect support from the frequent fliers > > > > > > **The entire point of elite specs is to fill in gaps in the core class and add new playstyles.** Core doesn’t need to be viable for all things (plus Condi core rev is still decently viable even without renegade; it’s just a step down to run it when you can just run Ren instead). > > > > > > > I couldnt disagree more on literally everything you said. > > Unfortunately for you it doesn’t matter if you disagree with me or not. **This is Anet’s stance on Elite Specs and has been since Heart of Thorns** I agree with your previous quote. Although I would love more weapons, my biggest issue with the core class is Ventari and its ability to perform as a dedicated support role (which extends to both e-specs as well) especially post-big balance patch. As a pretty diehard core Rev player, the base class is pretty great in most regards. Ancient Echo and an additional core traitline puts it at a totally respectable spot.