Arheundel.6451

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Arcaneus.6931" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class. > > > > > > > > Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes. > > > > > > IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "? > > > > > > I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee. > > > > > > > Long story short....**all you said makes perfect sense**. > > > > NO! having a mage class in a MMO acting like a melee brawler is simply speaking "an awful idea", nobody know who came up with such an absurd concept but well......it's is what it is and here we are suffering the consequences of that decision > > > > > > For my tastes, I've always loved the melee weapon play styles on ele. Dagger is a blast to play on core/tempest and I especially love playing sword weaver. That doesn't invalidate any of what seem like perfectly valid complaints to me, however. The fact is ele could really benefit from having medium baseline health. Both staff and scepter really need improvement and are currently the worst choices most of the time. Core ele is bottom tier in every game mode. Weaver was over-nerfed in competitive play. Conjured weapons are terribly designed. The list of areas for improvement with this class is long. > > For what it's worth, I support the idea of the next ele elite featuring a ranged weapon. It's not my preferred style, but the melee options for ele are where the class feels best currently. They should work on improving ele's ranged game. > > I am not against the idea of melee mage sort of magic knight archetype..the problem is Anet wants to keep the idea of glass cannon mage....while forcing the class at melee range, you haven't got the tools most of the time to survive a barrage of attacks at melee range, they force you to heavily invest in specific stats to work with the class at that range. -Too stats dependant at this point -Extremely high CD on defensive mechanics, you must facetank dmg between 1 huge CD and another -Dmg level is extremely low and require the execution of perfect combos to accomplish anything Playing ele atm is like playing a Dark Soul Character in a Kirby game where people reach their goals by pressing attack and defense buttons only.......it's completely absurd, today I have played necro as main for first time, it took me like few hours before I was topping stats in every PvP match and died only once....due to a core necro pressure, at the same time once I was fighting a thief, ranger and a weaver...and the weaver was gone after a single F1-5-4-2..... The absurdity of the class design in this game is mindblowing....**it's like people modding their own version of Skyrim**...... Few years ago you didn't have to go through firing circles to do the smallest thing...**a lighting flash+burning speed combo** was enough to put pressure on people...now you need to chain burning speed-convergence-dragon's breath-firegrab and something more to put the same pressure...at the same time you have to dodge for your life because a couple of hits from a necro can down you almost....

> @"Wuffy.9732" said: > Why more necro nerfs? We've been nerfed into the ground repeatedly (Same as thief/warrior) lol. If anything, it's about time we gain some buffs. Anet favors guardian, elemental, and holosmith these days. The rest of the classes have become forgotten step children. "Anet favors elemental" LOL xd...mate recently deleted ele in favour of necro...in PvP was getting top stats without knowing what 3/4 of my build could do...and the only threat was coming from...a core necro during those match , met a weaver who tried to tank me...XDDDD.....F1 5-4-2 and the ele was down by 80% HP . But yeah now for real I don't want Anet to nerf necro anymore, I am glad I made the legendary light armor, the transition from ele to necro was super easy. But yeah man...damn...."Anet favors elemental" lol are you trolling? Eles only have a semi-viable support build with Tempest ..the rest doesn't exist as it has been nerfed to the ground..but for real...**I mean on ele you have weapon skills with 60s CD.....weapon skills**; on necro I can pretty much run any stat and elite I like and it feels amazing , everything from core to scourge works and it's viable in all gamemodes! "Anet favors elemental" xd...sure go and play an ele then

Yup, That's why I am playing necro now

> @"Arcaneus.6931" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class. > > > > Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes. > > IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "? > > I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee. > Long story short....**all you said makes perfect sense**. NO! having a mage class in a MMO acting like a melee brawler is simply speaking "an awful idea", nobody know who came up with such an absurd concept but well......it's is what it is and here we are suffering the consequences of that decision

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > > Metabattle and relative sites are a bad influence, there is a lot of builds to have and in a viable state. > > > > > > > > > > They simply don't care to show anything but meta because all they care about is the meta. It's in their terms, you'll never find many builds on their site that would indicate "build diversity" to keep their site "clean". > > > > > > > > > > The diversity is something you can see by doing it yourself and watching players that care to see how more things can be achieved, it's been way more noticeable since the Feb patch that a lot of stuff began to be playable but also fun. > > > > > > > > Build diversity doesn't mean "swap around some utilities and weapons", it means high performing builds against everything else that is not a bronze/hotjoin hero or **badly programmed bot** . Yes people can run full glyph or full conjure ele and can call it..."build diversity"... > > > > > > > > Please show me this build diversity of yours? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I please see a video of you playing a core ele? core engi?core mesmer? or any other class not currently streamed across the board? > > > > > > Missing the point. Like it's /really/ hard to make something viable when you know how the game works. > > > > > > [Various Core Engineer Builds]( ) from a long time ago before Febuary, Tetherbreaker was still a thing. > > > > > > [Herald Condition]( ) way before it was meta and affected by the Febuary patch, Tetherbreaker still a thing. > > > > > > [Core Condition Revenant]( ) before the Febuary patch and it made through Hanz that curated it as Good, that needs to be updated anyway for today. Tetherbreaker still a thing. > > > > > > [Core Power Revenant]( ) after Febuary patch, my most recent with the Berserker Glass Shiro/Jalis Renegade coming next if I care enough. Still labeled under test on Metabattle. > > > > As I have said...for you we can run a tempest with a warhorn and gliphs...another tempest with scepter and signets and lastly a tempest with staff.....in the end you'd call them "3 different builds"....whatever you say bro...enjoy this sinking ship to your heart content > > Making up stupid arguements for demands that don't exist, out of every build I posted, there's about 4 variants to come out with the same role. I think you're too far lost in the idea that you know better than everyone else. > > If as a Rev right now with core and elites I can do 3 different builds for all 3 different roles with all 3 different classes, how is that /lacking/? > > You can actually play Tempest right now so that's already better than before where it's existence was forgotten. Ok you call other stupid....ok I need to L2P..ok you're the best......**can we actually see a streming video of you playing ele with its sublime build diversity against anything with a pulse above gold1 level ( where I assume people know where the dodge button is) ?** So far you have done nothing else but showing slight variations of a build which has been barely touched in PvP and remains one of the most broken specs currently in WvW? There are people who have been playing ele for 12k+ hours since launch...others have won world tournaments on the class....they all agree on the state on the class but here you come saying that all eles must L2P and can only copy/paste from a website...after 8 years of using the class. Yes I need to L2P...everybody maining an ele must L2P, ofc .....hey guys here! http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEsEW2ALhNyQYn4QfZ20A-zZJME0GA There! build diversity achieved! I call it : "Arcanist" an offensive support tempest with loads of aoe.......

Is the AI overtaking humanity? Now bots can mimic human behaviour .....scary

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Metabattle and relative sites are a bad influence, there is a lot of builds to have and in a viable state. > > > > > > They simply don't care to show anything but meta because all they care about is the meta. It's in their terms, you'll never find many builds on their site that would indicate "build diversity" to keep their site "clean". > > > > > > The diversity is something you can see by doing it yourself and watching players that care to see how more things can be achieved, it's been way more noticeable since the Feb patch that a lot of stuff began to be playable but also fun. > > > > Build diversity doesn't mean "swap around some utilities and weapons", it means high performing builds against everything else that is not a bronze/hotjoin hero or **badly programmed bot** . Yes people can run full glyph or full conjure ele and can call it..."build diversity"... > > > > Please show me this build diversity of yours? > > > > > > Can I please see a video of you playing a core ele? core engi?core mesmer? or any other class not currently streamed across the board? > > Missing the point. Like it's /really/ hard to make something viable when you know how the game works. > > [Various Core Engineer Builds]( ) from a long time ago before Febuary, Tetherbreaker was still a thing. > > [Herald Condition]( ) way before it was meta and affected by the Febuary patch, Tetherbreaker still a thing. > > [Core Condition Revenant]( ) before the Febuary patch and it made through Hanz that curated it as Good, that needs to be updated anyway for today. Tetherbreaker still a thing. > > [Core Power Revenant]( ) after Febuary patch, my most recent with the Berserker Glass Shiro/Jalis Renegade coming next if I care enough. Still labeled under test on Metabattle. As I have said...for you we can run a tempest with a warhorn and gliphs...another tempest with scepter and signets and lastly a tempest with staff.....in the end you'd call them "3 different builds"....whatever you say bro...enjoy this sinking ship to your heart content

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > The OP is way right...and you are way wrong > > > > > > Is this the "healthy" game you're referring to? 4 Professions out of 9 being played in PvP? > > > The video shows more than 4 classes being played ... Also displaying bad diversity/balance pre nerf does not mean more powercreep is the way to go. > > The two biggest power spikes in this game have been pre HoT spec update - which resulted in cele d/d ele dominating like nothing else has ever done (teams were stacking 4-5 of them ... and winning) - and HoT release, when teams would run double chrono and double rev and the 5th spot was probably only filled by another class because of their newly implemented "no more than 2 of each class per team" rule. Most diversity in competitive play you have seen afterwards was forced by the no-class-stacking-rule, something that wasn't deemed necessary in the past, and not the result of balance. > > Are balance and diversity great right now? No. But there has been times where it was much worse, so the direction they are heading is probably not completely wrong. > > People keep throwing around "cele ele- cele ele" without any actual knowledge of the PvP landscape back then...somebody who just started playing GW2 last month by reading the forums would think that prior to HoT launch , the game was populated by 10 eles per match....I will give the correct **numbers** for new players and those alike who lack knowledge about the history of this game: 1) Prior to HoT launch we had : **-Cele axe/shield warrior** **-Cele engi** and **-Cele D/D ele** There would be others but I stop here, the builds I have mentioned were unquestionably strong but ele was not nearly as OP as people would otherwise make you believe, it was possibly the best side noder I give you that but no more than that, at that time we had **Abjured running with double ele** and that's it 2) **June 2015 Condition revamp patch** People start running Fire cele D/D ele, the new build is clearly overperforming, therefore it get abused by TOP team and one team win the **Sept 2015 Tournament with 4 eles** 3) HoT Launch Oct2015 = HoT launch, the fire cele ele get nerfed with subsequent patch, GM and adept traits nerfed, dagger off hand burning dmg reduced and other nerfs I can't remember now....after that was HoT meta So in the end people keep using ele as some sort of broken concept that apparently **never happened again or ever did in GW2**....pffff..really? -What about **triple rev teams winning monthly?** -Double/triple holo team in tournaments? -How many revs per team do you still find during tournament? Cele ele? I see a very strong profession no doubts and this was before the condi revamps BS which allowed people to stack burning to kingdom come AKA **massive ele population** during 2015....5 years ago...with different devs.....2 expansions ago..... In the end **cele ele was broken for few months before HoT launch** and people still ...whine about it..when some other professions have been broken/abused for years.....sad

> @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. The OP is way right...and you are way wrong Is this the "healthy" game you're referring to? 4 Professions out of 9 being played in PvP? People really think that GW2 will last as long as WoW.......

> @"Shao.7236" said: > Metabattle and relative sites are a bad influence, there is a lot of builds to have and in a viable state. > > They simply don't care to show anything but meta because all they care about is the meta. It's in their terms, you'll never find many builds on their site that would indicate "build diversity" to keep their site "clean". > > The diversity is something you can see by doing it yourself and watching players that care to see how more things can be achieved, it's been way more noticeable since the Feb patch that a lot of stuff began to be playable but also fun. Build diversity doesn't mean "swap around some utilities and weapons", it means high performing builds against everything else that is not a bronze/hotjoin hero or **badly programmed bot** . Yes people can run full glyph or full conjure ele and can call it..."build diversity"... Please show me this build diversity of yours? Can I please see a video of you playing a core ele? core engi?core mesmer? or any other class not currently streamed across the board?

People here really can't complain.....**because you're still playing the class** as I said months ago : Stop playing elementalist! At this point people here are either loving the suffering that comes with the balance of this class or they simply lie to themselves. It's not an overly complex problem : **Stop using elementalist** , if nobody use it...they will ofc change it...as it would be pretty hard to sell a MMo product otherwise but for as long as people use the class regardless of the balance well.....I don't see anything every changing for elementalist

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > It's a shame, because staff ele is the closest you get to a true "Mage" archetype in Gw2. It's just not worth using in any game mode except WvW... which is tough luck for me because my computer cannot handle zerg blobs, and even if it could zerging isn't fun for me personally. It's just ...elementalist was a DPS oriented mage class in GW1, **that's what every player who invested in ele wanted to play** , I am guaranted that ele players want to play a **ranged elemental caster** like the one below : Nobody asked for this ridiculous healbot playstyle...nobody

> @"Qori.9671" said: > I wish they had kept the kinda theme the weapon had going for it , like #5 is usually a big AOE effect , before launch in videos you could see the staff ele casting a spell that had chunning earths graphic , shockwave would be a whole lot nicer if it was a ground target AOE immob. Gust would be a whole lot better if it just radiated out of your and knocked back people. Unsteady ground used to actually make a wall that didn't just pop up and knock people down , it was a wall that sat there for a min so people couldn't get at you and you could kite and los around it ( think it was changed to that stupid cripple speed bump version it was before what it is now because groups of ele in WvW could block tunnels off and keep the other zerg locked in the tunnel ). It just needs more ways to make up for the slow weapon that it is. If someone decides they want you dead there is not a whole lot stopping them anymore with that weapon. It used to get by when passive defense procs were on shorter cd somewhat. Every class has gap closers that are on insanely shorter CD than anything ele has defense wise , and melee attacks always hit harder than a ranged attack so ... dead ele. It doesn't even have a reason for them not to just charge at you and kill you. Has anyone ever worried about saving a dodge for a staff ele's burst... no. It needs more baked in defense or it needs something like air #2 to be very fast casting close range and hit like a truck to give someone pause before just saying .. oh theres a staff ele , and charging into you giving zero kittens because they know you can't hurt them. We've been there...done that.... The class used to do damage...they then nerfed the heck out of it as people were crying too much......what you guys are doing it's all pointless, even when ele get a **competitive dmg build**, it quickly get demolished with nerfs anyway..

This community has been calling "degenerate" any resemblance of damage iteration on elementalist......**not once in the entire life of GW2 since 2012 , has this community not cried blood tears everytime ele could deal competitive dmg** , people will come running on the forum every time ele is anything more than a toothless healbot.....

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: I strongly suggest you **to actually play elementalist** , because right now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing without a single "shred" of evidence...... >Ele = takes more effort to play offensively and less to play defensively as it has hard defenses and good access to things like vigor, extra evade skills, better movement skills, and depending on the elite superior access to stability when compared to necromancer Like.....**where are these hard defenses?** -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Flesh -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Shield -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Form Are these the "hard defenses" you referring to?... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado Is this your "superior Elite"?.....sad....a strawman argument >Just deal with the fact that your counter is necro and always has been probably always will be I will remind you of this sentence every time you'll pop out on the forum asking for nerfs.......we should start from these fresh "nerf ranger" threads every necro likes to pop in, where is your....."deal with the fact that your counter is X" argument? What is it? Can't deal with the idea of a counter to necro?

> @"Shao.7236" said: > Don't remove it, make the pulsing less aggressive. > > Every second is too often for anyone that clears it just to get caught in the radius again because there's no window of escape at all. That goes basically for every CC/snare combo in this game....if one goes..all of them should suffer the same fate , it's way more agonizing to be feared/chilled in a loop that being...immobilized which I can clear with simple countermoves like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > > > > Immobilize + Cover condis is the single most infuriating thing in this game (to me). If I see a ranger on the enemy team, I will swap to escape runes 100% of the time so I don't get cheesed by Entangle from stealth or an immobilize from the pet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Entangling Roots are also buggy and some weapons flat out cannot hit them. Condi necro gets destroyed by roots because staff can't hit them (autos miss. marks dont trigger), and scepter takes ages to kill them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't mind immobilize so much if skills that utilized it had better telegraphs, but instead it tends to either proc from traits, or it gets slapped on skills with tells far too light for how powerful the condition is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we talking about the same condi core fear cancer spam that can send condis back? > > > > > > > > > > this is the worst. im a main necro my self.. and im saying condi necro and its fear must be nerfed ! > > > > > omg.. this endless fear .. and the fear does sooooo much damage ! > > > > > > > > The fear chain is certainly in the same ballpark of annoyance of immobilize chain > > > > > > and the fear does damage like burning with that stupid trait hahah.. > > Enlighten me! > > > > We are talking about the 500 dps, the terror trait does while the target is feared? This means 2k damage in 20 seconds, right? You say that is broken for a master trait, right? > > > > Is this some kind of "I don't know kitten about what kills me, but blame whatever" here? > > > > > > A few questions for everyone > how many traits do you need to make fear do 2k damage (the answer is 2 from 2 different lines) > how many traits do you need to make entangle do good damage (a single 1 that says bleeding is more dangerous +33% damage) > > For fear to do roughly 1k per second (you might even need a few might stacks) you need fairly high condition damage something between 900-1300 if im not mistaken > The thing is most fears only last 1s at their base duration. The only long fear is the core shroud fear and that one now has a cast time meaning its strong but you can react to it and it cant come out while cc'ed. > > It takes 1 trait to make the fears do damage (in curses) > IT takes a 2nd trait to extend fear duration by 50% turning 1s fears into 1.5s fears and the core shroud 2s fear into a 3s fear. (this trait has already been nerfed from100% duration down to 50% duration this year and had its life force gain nerfed from 15% to 7%) > > The only reason cmc is ok with fear doing damage is because it effectively takes a commitment to 2 whole traitlines to make it work. > Thats a lot of investment for damage on fairly high cooldown skills. Just about any condi necro biuld has 3 fears at most in its kit so you are looking between 3k for the base shroud fear, 2k for the staff 5, and another 2k to 2.2k for spectral ring assuming you only hit the ring once and assuming all these fears run the full duration without being broken. Thats about 7 to 7.5 k damage over 7 to 7.5 seconds in which you had to break stun or condi clear. In comparison it wont take condi thieff or burn guardian or even a condi weaver to erase that much of your hp with their burst setups right... so really i fail to understand how people cry over fear. In truth if you ate that many full duration fears you probably did something wrong. > Just saying ? It takes 1 trait to apply immobilize on druid It takes a hit **after a stun/daze/immobilize** to apply that immobilize There is no real reason why Fear as it stands is fine and everything instead is wrong....no reason ofc outside **the bias of those using Fear**

> @"Tashigi.3159" said: > Can we please just remove this from the game? Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse. > Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize. We can remove immobilize....**after that we have to remove Chill from the game, it's highly disruptive on classes that rely on maneuverability to stay alive** or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse. Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around **chill**

> @"Delita Silverburg.8632" said: > Skills should not be deleted from the game just because we can't handle them properly with every build. This is like asking for rock to beat both paper and scissors. There should always be something that beats something that beats something in a circle of some kind. Obviously with 18 unique elite specs to play there will be some overlap, but it's up to you as the player to find what you're comfortable with and play that to the best of your ability and accept the rest of the results. The absurd and senseless part starts when professions consequently become weaker and weaker with the removal of that and the other tool available to them, once a profession loses "its teeth" , you will see players coming on the forum and rightfully ask for nerfs on other professions and that's when the same individuals who wanted **the stuff they couldn't deal with removed** , will come and tell you....**to deal with the stuff instead than having it removed**. Wanna an example ? -"Of course not. 9 out of 10 noobs learned how to avoid getting lich'd in the meantime" To which I can say: -Of course not. 9 out of 10 noobs learned how to avoid getting rooted in the meantime" -"Unblockable marks means nothing to to the majority of classes and builds in the game only the most useful against warriors, guardians, and some times revs." To which I can say: -"Immobilize means nothing to to the majority of classes and builds in the game only the most useful against anybody with no awareness and build crafting ability" Food for thought...

> @"noiwk.2760" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > Immobilize + Cover condis is the single most infuriating thing in this game (to me). If I see a ranger on the enemy team, I will swap to escape runes 100% of the time so I don't get cheesed by Entangle from stealth or an immobilize from the pet. > > > > > > Entangling Roots are also buggy and some weapons flat out cannot hit them. Condi necro gets destroyed by roots because staff can't hit them (autos miss. marks dont trigger), and scepter takes ages to kill them. > > > > > > I wouldn't mind immobilize so much if skills that utilized it had better telegraphs, but instead it tends to either proc from traits, or it gets slapped on skills with tells far too light for how powerful the condition is. > > > > > > > > > > Are we talking about the same condi core fear cancer spam that can send condis back? > > this is the worst. im a main necro my self.. and im saying condi necro and its fear must be nerfed ! > omg.. this endless fear .. and the fear does sooooo much damage ! The fear chain is certainly in the same ballpark of annoyance of immobilize chain

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: -snip- As I have stated before : **if you lose to average ele while using a necro class you're accustomed to.......you may want to spend less time try to preach others** , there is a very good reason why we don't see LR ele played at the any point of the game where and when it counts , the spec is 90% melee based and lacks decent condi removal for the positioning required hence **massive outplay of the enemy** becomes a necessity and here we see the huge disparity in skill requirements to play an ele compared to...a necro. The average necro should be able to lay down few chill/fear marks underneath (unblockable marks btw) and just wait for the ele to forces his way at melee range; between **ghastly claws** and that staff, the necro has got all the tools **to play the long game** while ele hasn't got that luxury. Now the ele will have to be 4-5x better in order to have a chance...all the while he runs the risk of being +1 from all directions and just when the class lacks the tools to run away efficiently **at the highest levels** There is no comparison between a necro and ele in terms of commitment required, the first will require almost no effort compared to the latter at all times. Either way, I posted already a graph showing the popularity of each profession atm and I am sure the devs have noticed the huge influx of necros lately, at the very least I hope my suggested changes will be introduced as soon as possible

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > Immobilize + Cover condis is the single most infuriating thing in this game (to me). If I see a ranger on the enemy team, I will swap to escape runes 100% of the time so I don't get cheesed by Entangle from stealth or an immobilize from the pet. > > Entangling Roots are also buggy and some weapons flat out cannot hit them. Condi necro gets destroyed by roots because staff can't hit them (autos miss. marks dont trigger), and scepter takes ages to kill them. > > I wouldn't mind immobilize so much if skills that utilized it had better telegraphs, but instead it tends to either proc from traits, or it gets slapped on skills with tells far too light for how powerful the condition is. > > Are we talking about the same condi core fear cancer spam that can send condis back?

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > If you are an ele player just stop while you are a head... ele has always been weak to necro and it likely always will be because chill counters your ability to rapidly attune. You can beat necros with ele but it wont be easy just like its not easy for necro to beat thieves just deal with it and learn to handle the counter match up better. > > > > ...That's rich coming from necros...truly rich...I remember few years back .... > > > > > Does Diamond skin need a nerf ? > > >You can be the best condi necro of the world and have not a single chance in a 1 v 1 against the worst ele of the world > > The jokes on you ive always been a power player even for core necro before reaper came out. While you can attempt to come at me with that diamond skin stuff there were ways around it like having more power and crit chance in your build and not fully investing in condi alone > > > > **Practice what you preach** is what necros should do, at the time you'd rather play the victim card instead than **learn to handle the counter match up better** > > We have been nerfed plenty alreayd if any thing the biggest advantage you got came with the feb patch with the removal of instant doom. Which was fair as it was a get out of jail free card even while stunned etc. > But there have also been several life force generating reductions, the removal of certain amulets, and an increase on life force per second with core shroud. > If you are still struggling at this point (not factoring in cheese lich for 10s every 3 minutes ) then its a you problem not the necro problem. > > I already said how i feel above and that some things do still need some changes but you skipped all that but if we are really going to balance things there are still many tools that ele needs nerfed as well i wont call them out but you should understand what i mean. > > So instead of telling me to practice what I preach how about you just generally practice. > Just go out and fight necros im sure you can ask around for some players to help you get better at the match up. > Truth is you have nothing to lose if necro nerfs do come you will be even better off at dealing with them. Stop praying to anet to nerf something into unplayability so you dont have a counter matchup every class is going to have a hard counter match up or two but that does not mean you cant win against them. > > > **There is nothing on ele I can't overcome while playing 3 other different professions** and if I had time I'd play the remaining 5 and deal with ele just as easily, there are no big hits "to avoid at all costs" on ele , the best an average player can hope to do is gear up with a healing amulet and **bother you to death**......unless ofc we start talking about Piano musicians who reached Master level and had the patience to deal with the all the crap coming from the balance patches...I am not one of those and that's why I started multiclassing years ago. Unless we face some TOP 100 ele with thousand hours under his belt and some tournament play who can most likely **outsmart you....not class overpowering** , we're talking about a dozen or so players against the hundreds upon hundreds of "pvpers" who use a necro. Worth mentioning those same ele players are actually multiclass so they'd win regardless on other professions with far less effort **Any ele build with the sole exception of some healbot build will be always far harder than anything a necro can use** and with that said I rebuke this fact : no average necro should lose to an average ele; any necro player who fall in that category....is not a position to preach anybody about "GITGUD" To put in low terms : any player who can best a necro while using the current iteration of elementalist.......hes' a far better player than me and you combined....try to remember that next time you try to use "L2P" against me, current necro has got all the tools to shut down your average ele without breaking a sweat .....if you lose to average ele while using a necro class you're accustomed to.......you may want to spend less time try to preach others

> @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > Yes, other professions are pumping out just as much damage and have access to more mobility, but nerf Necro... > > > > > > You don’t have much of a convincing argument here. Like at all. And I’m not the one you are trying to sway, it’s the devs you need to convince and your stated arguments aren’t strong at all. > > > > Other professions don't have access to seemingly unavoidable and unblockable 1200 chill/fear lockdown combo, neither have access to traits like "reaper's onslaught" or a broken Elite with 6-7k dmg on auto-attacks. > > > > Chill/fear on skills that can be stacked on top of one another in the shortest amount of time....during that time I can dodge a grenade holo two times over and see a mesmer one shot burst from miles away... > > > > Necro right now is a combination of several buffs that have been piling up for years now....they kept buffing the class with little regards to what happened to PvP/WvW all in an effort to make necro apparently more interesting to play in PvE......**right now necro is the 3rd most played class in the game after guardian and warrior** and yet you try to tell me that necro is not deserving of nerfs.... > > > > It's not hard to convince anybody , given the current situation > > > >  > > > > > > We all struggle with different things in-game. Better players are always around the corner. It's easy to make mistakes... I think you are just having issues against more experienced players. > > My suggestion is to get a friend who plays necro and practice. I can manage to recognize better players and I can discern a bad necro from a good one, while playing an ele against a good necro ...there is not even the resemblance of counterplay...very well, my hat to you and **I'd be more than ready to concede** if... the game would have not gone in a different direction. I have always suggested for Anet to balance the game around the top level of gameplay...rather than the lower levels but that always seems to be a **case by case** instance, professions like : elementalist, ranger, thief get alwayes nerfed at the first resemblance of whining ...regardless of where it comes from......a bronze tiered newb who started few months ago can start a nerf thread about any of those 3 professions and he is sure to grab the attention of the whole community : my question is why people are always ready to jump the guns when they get bested by players using any of those 3 professions? It seems to me that regardless of what you play on an ele, on a ranger or on a thief...**you're always considered a noob using OP class if you win**, mind you truly OP specs will always appear on every class so ofc from time to time but that doesn't mean that everything on those professions is easy to use and deserving nerfs at every turn when they manage to pass the mediocre presence bar. In this same thread you find necro players who complain about **Lightning rod ele** when that spec is anything but user friendly, you lack condi removal, sustain and can be easily shut down by any +1 if you screw up your positioning and don't manage "to abuse" your mobility with super speed, it seems to me those players lost to a better player using ele also. When FA ele was nerfed...wasn't that a L2P issue too for those whining about the build? On that build you'd get 2 shotted if you'd screw up your kiting...still the build got deleted from the game 'cause of some whining...and FA ele was a good way to deal with necros on ele....guess what necro did in this case?!....Yeah whine and whine..and whine So in the end yeah....I can recognize my L2P issue....**when will others start do the same?** For as long as Anet keeps nerfing professions based on "L2P" threads.....it 's fair for me to say that all professions should receive the same treatment, in the end when nerfs start raining for the most silly reasons, professions start to lose their identity and ability to deal with problems. When you start nerfing all sources of dmg on a class like ele for the most "L2P" reasons...it's inevitable that people will start complaining in return...just food for thought......if I'd still have FA ele...I would have very little reason to complain about necros