AliamRationem.5172

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > Then they decided to announce maintenance mode when they should have been working on another expansion all along. > When was maintenance mode announced? My choice of words was a criticism of their decision not to work on another expansion (i.e. their failure to invest in this game's future). Was that not clear in the context of my statement? Or do you really want to engage in an argument over the strict definition of "maintenance mode"? I know it's a popular subject and all. I'm just not sure it would be productive.

> @"SunTzu.4513" said: > We need also to take the power creep into acount if we are talking about orr. I remember a time even after the nerfs to Orr where those areas were still quite deadly to some builds/classes or if you were running without condi cleans. This together with mounts has trivialized these areas even more. Same happened to the HoT areas. One could play the devils advocate and say: You see you can skip or just delete the mobs in older areas so easy, it's time to tune them up... I wouldn't say PoF elite specs introduced much power creep in comparison to HoT elite specs overall, though both are clearly examples of power creep compared to core. The addition of masteries with combat implications (e.g. special action skills, mount engage attacks) has had a pretty significant impact, though. But since leaping into a pile of enemies with the raptor tail spin attack can feel pretty satisfying, I'm not exactly complaining about it!

Bursty longbow/greatsword meme builds aren't exactly a new concept. I'm not sure I agree that they require no skill, however. Pushing 1 button to take out an opponent is easy, and if your gameplay consists of running around looking for soft targets and dying or running from everything else then I'd agree that's no-skill play. But succeeding against skilled opponents with these builds is usually not so easy. Just because you can potentially kill them with 1 rapid fire doesn't mean they're going to let you do it!

> @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > Well, you have over 1500 hours of PvE. > > > > Was that great the first couple of hours? Where you able to jump from map to map and find some dragon boss killing action? Was people tagged up for level 80 metas in the starter zones? Did you know where every heart, waypoint and event was or did you have to run and find them? Did you know how to build your character for open world performance? > > > > Come back when you have over 1500 hours in WvW and we can discuss the more detailed experience. > > I mean, in my first 10 hours of PvE, I was exploring the shiverpeaks mining for silver. Was I playing the game wrong? yes, but at least I was having fun. > > In WvW, most players first 10 hours probably consist of getting run over by zergs, encountering cheese pvp builds, general confusion of where the commander is doing, PvD, and dying to tier 1 camps. It creates a situation so toxic that players often feel they don't want to come back. I wouldn't expect new players attempting to solo roam in WvW would have a good experience. Most players don't enjoy repeatedly losing fights they can't win. Realistically, that's your best case scenario. The only way you don't just get destroyed repeatedly is if you don't encounter anyone at all! The alternative to that is to find a squad, which isn't always easy. However, once you're in a squad you at least have the opportunity to make some progress without just getting your face stomped on repeatedly. Having said that, the game mode is obviously suffering. While I enjoy roaming and have spent a lot of time at it, the fact is the moments that make it great are generally few and far between. You can spend hours running around capturing camps and stealing towers without any notable fights. That's how solo roaming is. The chances of finding a fight that isn't a massive skill or numbers mismatch one way or the other are pretty slim. It's the same if you run with friends. Most of the time you're either running from bigger groups or steamrolling solos and small groups that never had a chance. It's probably why it's so common that you meet a worthy opponent, have some great fights, and end up chatting with them. Your opponent hasn't fought anyone else worth fighting in the past hour either! It's a miracle! Let's talk about it!

> @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Mungo Zen.9364" said: > > > > Hahahahaha > > > > > > > > Those questions have been asked multiple times in different ways and not a straight answer has been given. > > > Sure.... but then no straight questions have been given... there's been a ton of rhetoric on both sides. > > > I'm just curious what people who are issuing the complaints are actually struggling with. > > > Not the low-effort people complaining that they should be allowed to walk around maps and just enjoy the scenery, and not the people looking for free loot saying they should be able to harvest some of the more lucrative nodes without mitigating aggro... > > > ..but people who actually enjoy playing video games for an engaging experience and still feel the mobs are overtund. > > > > > > It personally took me a couple days when I first hit PoF to learn how to properly handle the difference in AI behaviours. The chain aggro that comes with the increased threat ranges, the veterans that are much more meaningful than core or HoT ones took a little adjustment for sure. > > > But a couple days later it was cool and it certainly wasn't the kick the the crotch that HoT was after core. > > > > It's easy to say no straight answers were given when the questions were never straight to begin with. This discussion is more nuanced than just people who need to git gud claiming the mobs are overtuned. You only had to look at the very first response in the thread to see that: > > > > "PoF mob density is no worse than HoT. However, the aggro range on many PoF/LS4 mobs is far longer. The overall effect is that moving around without being harassed by every mob within a square mile of your position is significantly more difficult in these later maps. Personally, I can't stand it. I find it really irritating and wish they'd reduce the aggro range to the way it was in HoT." -Me > > > > You might have also missed this, a few posts ago: > > > > "Of course posts like "this is too hard please make it easier" don't really work, they are too general and offer very little value for a discussion, only heated debates between the "it's too hard, please make it easier" and the "it is too easy, please make it harder" crowds with some variations between the two. But a question that can be made is, should mobs in Path of Fire+ have their engagement distance reduced?" -maddoctor.2738 > > > > In the same post he outlines his own testing which indicates that there was a significant increase in aggro range in going from HoT to PoF, possibly as much as doubling the aggro range. I honestly wasn't aware the difference was quite that huge, but it's always been very noticeable to me. > > > > In my opinion, it's annoying and no amount of "gittin' gud" is going to change that because it isn't killing the mobs or surviving them that is the problem. It's that the relative cost between being IC/OOC is much greater now that we have mounts. Previously, if you got stuck in combat it was only the difference between IC/OOC foot speed. Now it's the difference between IC foot speed and leaping away on your raptor! You really feel that! Combined with a greatly increased aggro range, you get to feel that a lot more often than you do in HoT content! > > > > > > > > > > Agreed. How one goes about creating difficulty is as important as the difficulty itself. THe line between engaging/challenging and annoying is very fine. I'm sure they were probably thinking... Okay, we're giving you mounts. You can get around much easier than before and we don't want all these enemies to become little more than scenery in the game. Why don't we just increase the aggro range so you get hit a little more as you're flying past? While that's perfectly sensible, I don't think they considered the impact on player perception. As I said before, there is now a greater difference between movement speed in-combat vs. out-of-combat due to the addition of mounts. Increasing aggro range to a level appropriate to hassle mounted players has the side-effect of locking unmounted players into combat much more frequently and for longer periods of time than in pre-PoF content. So now not only do I really want to get out of combat so I can mount up and get moving again, but I'm also finding myself stuck in combat more often because enemies aggro from further away whether I'm mounted or not. While this is not specifically a complaint about difficulty, a reduction in aggro ranges to something more similar to HoT would likely go a long way toward improving quality of life for those who do struggle. So, while I disagree with some of the specific complaints being made here, arguing them back and forth is a waste of time as what I want is likely also what they want. However, to those who disagree that this is a problem requiring a solution, I'd like to hear your thoughts. How would you feel about a reduction in aggro range to pre-PoF levels? Would this trivialize navigation in PoF? Has that been the result for you in HoT?

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"sutasafaia.4872" said: > > > Without getting into too much detail, the tldr is I have hand issues and reaction time issues. The easier a class is to play the better off I'll be, otherwise there's a fair chance I won't even be able to play it to begin with. This is basically my first time back in almost two years so figured I would ask before diving in head first since the classes have likely changed a bit since I last played. Obviously this means I avoid PvP and high end content so you don't really need to take any of that into account. I suppose if I had an understanding guild I might try some of it eventually but it's really not a concern for me. > > > > > > I've been hunting around for ideas, the big ones that seem to get repeated a lot are minion necro (scourge and reaper have both been recommended), a bearbow ranger, and a staff mirage? I was under the impression mesmer was pretty hard to play and required a lot of movement but it does seem to get recommended a lot so figured I would ask about it. > > > > > > Any help is appreciated. I've been missing MMO's a lot lately and after having tried a few others, this seems to be the one that was recommended again for being easier to play. Far less skill/button bloat than most other MMO's for certain. > > > > Staff mirage isn't the most effective build, but it might be the easiest to play as its primary form of offense is to simply spam dodge and auto-attack. It helps that it's also a 1200 range weapon and you're constantly spawning clones between you and the enemy. See how it can handle the CC spam from multiple hydras at once without really doing anything but standing there dodging and auto-attacking? It even works on a bounty champion at the end of the video! No particular skill, knowledge, or quick thinking/movement required. It's the easiest build ever! > > > > > > You can do something simmilar with Minstrel's chrono. Just stand and tank everything while you constantly heal yourself with basically every skill you use and have permanent quickness and alacrity. The only problem with this is that you do no damage lol, so while you basically can't die, fights take forever. > > If you switch from Minstrel's to wanderer's you can achieve a simmilar effect just by sacrificing some tankyness. I don't actually recommend the specific build in the video. It's more of a proof of concept that you don't really need anything with this build. I've deliberately taken all signets and no weapon swap as well as making no attempt at any positioning to demonstrate that you can just stand there dodging and auto-attacking and still win even against champions (I only had to move into the circles to clear the ley energy debuff on the bounty) and using no utilities. Just push buttons off cooldown and stand in fire. You still win as long as you can push 1 and dodge over and over! A better build would probably be to run axe or scepter as a swap, maybe take illusions and more offensive traits, a stat set with some precision at least if not full viper, etc. But if we're trying to keep it as simple as possible? Grab a staff, slap on tanky condi gear, take mirage with infinite horizon trait and 1 and dodge your way through whatever other horrible buildcraft choices you choose to make up to and including playing like a cat on a keyboard treadmill! That's why I say easiest build ever!

> @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Mungo Zen.9364" said: > > Hahahahaha > > > > Those questions have been asked multiple times in different ways and not a straight answer has been given. > Sure.... but then no straight questions have been given... there's been a ton of rhetoric on both sides. > I'm just curious what people who are issuing the complaints are actually struggling with. > Not the low-effort people complaining that they should be allowed to walk around maps and just enjoy the scenery, and not the people looking for free loot saying they should be able to harvest some of the more lucrative nodes without mitigating aggro... > ..but people who actually enjoy playing video games for an engaging experience and still feel the mobs are overtund. > > It personally took me a couple days when I first hit PoF to learn how to properly handle the difference in AI behaviours. The chain aggro that comes with the increased threat ranges, the veterans that are much more meaningful than core or HoT ones took a little adjustment for sure. > But a couple days later it was cool and it certainly wasn't the kick the the crotch that HoT was after core. It's easy to say no straight answers were given when the questions were never straight to begin with. This discussion is more nuanced than just people who need to git gud claiming the mobs are overtuned. You only had to look at the very first response in the thread to see that: "PoF mob density is no worse than HoT. However, the aggro range on many PoF/LS4 mobs is far longer. The overall effect is that moving around without being harassed by every mob within a square mile of your position is significantly more difficult in these later maps. Personally, I can't stand it. I find it really irritating and wish they'd reduce the aggro range to the way it was in HoT." -Me You might have also missed this, a few posts ago: "Of course posts like "this is too hard please make it easier" don't really work, they are too general and offer very little value for a discussion, only heated debates between the "it's too hard, please make it easier" and the "it is too easy, please make it harder" crowds with some variations between the two. But a question that can be made is, should mobs in Path of Fire+ have their engagement distance reduced?" -maddoctor.2738 In the same post he outlines his own testing which indicates that there was a significant increase in aggro range in going from HoT to PoF, possibly as much as doubling the aggro range. I honestly wasn't aware the difference was quite that huge, but it's always been very noticeable to me. In my opinion, it's annoying and no amount of "gittin' gud" is going to change that because it isn't killing the mobs or surviving them that is the problem. It's that the relative cost between being IC/OOC is much greater now that we have mounts. Previously, if you got stuck in combat it was only the difference between IC/OOC foot speed. Now it's the difference between IC foot speed and leaping away on your raptor! You really feel that! Combined with a greatly increased aggro range, you get to feel that a lot more often than you do in HoT content!

> @"sutasafaia.4872" said: > Without getting into too much detail, the tldr is I have hand issues and reaction time issues. The easier a class is to play the better off I'll be, otherwise there's a fair chance I won't even be able to play it to begin with. This is basically my first time back in almost two years so figured I would ask before diving in head first since the classes have likely changed a bit since I last played. Obviously this means I avoid PvP and high end content so you don't really need to take any of that into account. I suppose if I had an understanding guild I might try some of it eventually but it's really not a concern for me. > > I've been hunting around for ideas, the big ones that seem to get repeated a lot are minion necro (scourge and reaper have both been recommended), a bearbow ranger, and a staff mirage? I was under the impression mesmer was pretty hard to play and required a lot of movement but it does seem to get recommended a lot so figured I would ask about it. > > Any help is appreciated. I've been missing MMO's a lot lately and after having tried a few others, this seems to be the one that was recommended again for being easier to play. Far less skill/button bloat than most other MMO's for certain. Staff mirage isn't the most effective build, but it might be the easiest to play as its primary form of offense is to simply spam dodge and auto-attack. It helps that it's also a 1200 range weapon and you're constantly spawning clones between you and the enemy. See how it can handle the CC spam from multiple hydras at once without really doing anything but standing there dodging and auto-attacking? It even works on a bounty champion at the end of the video! No particular skill, knowledge, or quick thinking/movement required. It's the easiest build ever!

> @"Stallic.2397" said: > It's still core though, vs elite specializations, which says something in itself. Wvw allows you to bend and manipulate your stats much better than PvP, but no matter what, achieving success on core is commendable. > > Great video I thought it was really good! You blew people up and survived with a build that can get blown up pretty quickly if you don't know how to handle yourself! Nice work!

Too much depends on build, game mode, play style, etc. to give you a good answer to which class to pick, so it's going to come down to which one you prefer. I think elementalist is one of the most interesting classes I've ever seen in any MMO. It has its issues, but it's a ton of fun to play and you can be successful with it in any game mode with one build or another. But be warned. It is also considered one of the more challenging classes to learn! Here's a video I just recorded of a little open world gameplay using Weaver with sword. It's only one way to play an elementalist, but I think it looks pretty fun, don't you? Good luck with whatever class you end up choosing!

I've seen good duelists in all 3 flavors. Weaver feels pretty good to me in 1v1 (+1 is another matter!). I find most weavers seem to prefer dagger-based power builds, but I still run a sword/focus setup like the pre-Feb meta. Only I like to run with either Grieving or Sinister amulet rather than Sage. I think the pressure is a little better, which is important because the mobility on sword/focus is terrible. You really need to try to maintain pressure or a lot of builds will kite and wear you down or force a stalemate with endless resets. Unfortunately, I don't spend much time in PvP and I have nothing current to share. But here's a video of an informal 1v1 in the PvP lobby arena against a top tier (#1 rank at the time, in fact!) opponent from earlier this year. Don't get too excited! I suspect he just didn't have enough condi cleanse on his build as I think he was dueling Shorts on power mes just prior to this! Besides, I've fought this guy when he's used other classes and lost plenty of times. Still, I think if I can hang at all against that level of competition weaver can at least be a passable duelist, right? Anyway, you be the judge. Build link in the video comments.

Prologue/Grothmar Valley for me. Normally I hate stupid cat people in RPGs, but the Charr have a lot of personality and it shows in that episode and several of the events on the associated map. The Metal Legion concert is one of my favorite open world events anywhere in the game. Great job on that one!

Hey! I remember you from my stint in the dueling arena earlier this year! There aren't a lot of core engi players in PvP and your build gave me a lot of trouble. Nice video!

I already picked up a bunch of the dark matter skins. Most of them look awesome!

> @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Sorry to hear about your experience. > > I have to disagree on T4 fractals though, and that you are required to play specific classes. Yes, some classes are more useful or better equipped to deal with most content, looking at guardian atm, yet as long as you don't delve into speedrun content, every class can perform very well. > > For T4 fractals (and even CMs if the player decides to improve his ability on the class): > https://discretize.eu/builds/necromancer/power-reaper > > In case of necromancer, even condition scourge or other builds work (at least for T4 fractals). **The issue is most often not the class, it's individual players inability to actually play the class.** These vast differences people see on the websites and benchmarks and recommendations for specific classes do not apply to 95% of the player base because players aren't even close to that level of performance. > > Where class choice does come into play is indeed which roles classes can perform, and those are often limited to which boons classes can give. As far as damage dealer though, I've seen my share of amazing players on any class, and I've run a ton of difficult content in this game. That's the truth. It's like people say you can't play condi because you can't burst effectively. Well, I'm sorry, but that only applies to groups that are pushing phases in a matter of a few seconds with each DPS dealing unsustainable numbers (e.g. 100k+ DPS) in a very short burst. You will NEVER see this group form in random LFG for T4 dailies, though. For "normal" groups you can run practically anything. Seriously, I run T4 dailies with no problems at all using dire gear and a PvP build on my condi weaver. I can't burst 100k and push phases in 3 seconds, but I'm perfectly fine hitting the 30k burn required for a 15 second Subject 6 shield & burn standard strategy you find in a T4 PUG. The amount of room you have to play it your way outside of the real fractal pro groups is massive.

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Shikaru.7618" said: > > > > > > > > > Here is something that a lot of the mmos youve mentioned have in common. They all have an easily identifiable gear score or damage score, so when you get a new piece of gear, you can make informed decisions at a glance and know if you're getting an upgrade or downgrade. Gw2 does not really present any of that information to you easily. It is very easy to gear and build your character incorrectly and be completely oblivious that you did so. The difference between the average player and top tier raiders is 10x according to a dev despite having the same tier of gear. Imagine if you magically dealt 10x damage right now. Would you still be struggling with open world? Thats the reality that a lot of us veterans are trying to tell you. Anything thats not a champion or bounty will basically melt in open world. You just need proper builds and proper stat combos on your gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, but how would you construct such a gear score (SWTOR calls it "Item Rating", for reference) in GW2? Would it have to show bias toward certain stats? If so, why? (I have a Reaper build that's based on *Valkyrie* gear, kitten. With all that Vitality, a stat-biased gear score would probably mark it down, but it's almost indestructible and still delivers substantial damage.) Then again, in most games, the gear score (whatever it's called) is some way short of the full answer, since it almost never identifies gearsets that are weak because of an improper stat mix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in general, this thread reminds me of something I said in [another thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1340112#Comment_1340112) ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game difficulty should not be set up for the wilfully obtuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very wide range of player-skill in any MMORPG, but while general content must take into account the less-skilled players, the players who will not learn how to play (not talking learning disabilities here, but wilful obtuseness) should not be part of that analysis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > > > > > > > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say that if you can throw darts at the skill tree with a blindfold on and still succeed, then the game has failed. GW2's system provides players the freedom to build however they like. This as opposed to a game like WoW, where you simply pick a class and a role and every choice you make falls within those parameters and only the latest content presents a challenge if you keep your gear current. GW2 lets you choose stats and traits with anti-synergy and your item level can't save you if you play like a potato. Pick your poison. I think both systems have their pros and cons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so its like a buffet, but you are only supposed to mix it like they intended? yea, that went well, didnt it? they either need to revamp the whole system, > > > > > or at least make some tutorials on buildcrafting. the steam crowd is gonna rip it apart in reviews, if they dont. oddly enough, EVE was about the same age before they made a proper tutorial too. > > > > > > > > You can quite literally build however you like. The system has no hard limits to prevent you from, for example, designing a hybrid DPS/healer that deals low damage while providing more healing than is necessary in solo play but also not enough healing/support to be useful in group play. You'll probably find yourself complaining about "HP sponges", failing DPS check mechanics, and getting into arguments with other players in groups if you use such a build, though. > > > > > > > > I'm not opposed to having better information, but I think the system is too complex for an effective tutorial. Resources like the forums, the wiki, and various fan sites do the deep diving required to really refine your understanding of buildcraft. If that's too much for some players to handle, perhaps an MMO where players typically play for years is not the best format for them? > > > > > > lol, 10 years of STO, 8 years dcuo, wow, FF ARR, CoH, SWTOR, **wildstar**, **EVE**, BDO, LOTRO, **RIFT**, **AION**, **warframe**, **TERA**, and the list goes on and on > > > if its a big mmo, theres a good chance, that i have played it at some point. still subbed to dcuo, but not playing as much anymore, due to burnout > > > > And you think these didn't have optimal builds that performed much better than the others? Really? Which ones of these told you exactly what to build to be competitive? Which one of these could you not read descriptions to understand what skills do and how they synergize? You're giving examples of games that didn't even do what you claim every rpg should do: hold your hand. So why are you suddenly claiming that gw2 is something out of ordinary in this instance just because you have some choices to make? > > this game has the worst balance of them all, none of them are even close. dont believe me ? try them yourself. and none of them have such a complex > build system either. a build system WITHOUT A TUTORIAL. lol.... WoW used to have a somewhat more free-form build system in its early days. Their talent system allowed you to choose traits from 3 different trees for each class, with the more game-changing abilities falling at break-points which forced choices. For example, you had 51 talent points to spend so you could get a 21/30 build or a 20/31 build which would give you very different results. But you could also do 11/10/10, if you wanted, which almost always resulted in a borked build that was useless as you're attempting to be too many things at once with a random smattering of traits that build toward no focus. GW2 is a lot like that, except being non-trinity you're even more free to make bad choices. But I will point out that WoW never did and still doesn't have detailed tutorials for buildcraft. Does any MMO? It seems like that's deep-diving into the game's mechanics and not particularly well-suited to new players learning the basics. It would simply overwhelm with information. You seem to view that as a failing of the game's design because you're looking for games that don't have much depth to their mechanics and can be picked up and played easily by anyone with no investment. Let's be clear: MMOs are NOT that type of game. They are the antithesis of that design. You play them for years. They feature competitive and "endgame" content designed to challenge players who invest a lot of time. It's a failure of expectation on your part. There is no tutorial that is going to teach a brand new player what took other players months or years to learn. You have to invest yourself in games like these, practice, and improve. Looking at a tutorial that condenses everything down into a simple choice is not a realistic expectation for an MMO. Ever.

> @"SunTzu.4513" said: > >I have to agree that there is plenty of room to play the way you want to play. I build and play for the things I like to do most, which is solo play open world/story, WvW roaming, unranked PvP. In terms of group PvE I will do strikes if my guild happens to be doing them and I like to do my T4 fractal dailies sometimes, usually via LFG. But raiding and CMs I have only done a little bit. > > >Given that, I play a roamer-style build that is tough as nails while dealing solid damage. It's resilient enough to survive all of the HoT champions solo, while also dealing enough damage to take most of them down in less than 60 seconds. The burst and sustained damage is adequate for strikes and T4 fractals, even CMs, but not appropriate for something like a daily static (which is fine, because I've never been a part of one!). > > >I can use almost the same build and play style at plat level in PvP or go solo roam with it (I'm well over rank 2000 there), too. It's not meta for anything. I don't even use anything close to the recommended rotation, stats, or even trait lines for my class. But I have at least some idea of what I'm doing and I've made these choices for a reason to come up with a play style that I enjoy and does what I need it to do. To me, that's the magic of GW2's "do whatever you want" method of handling buildcraft. > > Ah nice to see you commenting here. Imo your buildcraft and gameplay with your Mirage and now Weaver ist one of the prime exsamples what you can achive on soloing with a non meta build as long as you know what your doing skillwise and what are the encounter mechaniks . Even with incredible cheap gear variants. Also other guys like Lord Hizen proof again and again that you can do incredible things solo. I've already wrote it earlier but i don't know any other game with such a wide possible working build varity than GW2. You can nearly any type of stats and gear make working in some way. Are they all Meta? Surly not but you can do nearly all kind of content on non metabuilds imo as longs as you know what you are doing. Thanks! Honored to be in the conversation with the likes of Lord Hizen. He was an inspiration to me as a new player. It was hard to find good information on how best to approach solo play. It's not generally a focus for the pros and streamers out there. They tend toward the fractal/raid and competitive content. To them, open world is just the place you go to maximize gold-per-hour, which tends toward a very different type of build than the build you would use to take on the world alone! What's interesting is that if you compare Hizen's builds to mine, we use different stats, utilities, and traits. Yet we're both able to solo tough challenges like the VB boss trio with those builds. More evidence that the free-form build system in GW2 offers plenty of ways to play it your way, even while groups push the meta relentlessly.

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > > > > > @"Shikaru.7618" said: > > > > > > > Here is something that a lot of the mmos youve mentioned have in common. They all have an easily identifiable gear score or damage score, so when you get a new piece of gear, you can make informed decisions at a glance and know if you're getting an upgrade or downgrade. Gw2 does not really present any of that information to you easily. It is very easy to gear and build your character incorrectly and be completely oblivious that you did so. The difference between the average player and top tier raiders is 10x according to a dev despite having the same tier of gear. Imagine if you magically dealt 10x damage right now. Would you still be struggling with open world? Thats the reality that a lot of us veterans are trying to tell you. Anything thats not a champion or bounty will basically melt in open world. You just need proper builds and proper stat combos on your gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, but how would you construct such a gear score (SWTOR calls it "Item Rating", for reference) in GW2? Would it have to show bias toward certain stats? If so, why? (I have a Reaper build that's based on *Valkyrie* gear, kitten. With all that Vitality, a stat-biased gear score would probably mark it down, but it's almost indestructible and still delivers substantial damage.) Then again, in most games, the gear score (whatever it's called) is some way short of the full answer, since it almost never identifies gearsets that are weak because of an improper stat mix. > > > > > > > > > > > > And in general, this thread reminds me of something I said in [another thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1340112#Comment_1340112) ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game difficulty should not be set up for the wilfully obtuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a very wide range of player-skill in any MMORPG, but while general content must take into account the less-skilled players, the players who will not learn how to play (not talking learning disabilities here, but wilful obtuseness) should not be part of that analysis. > > > > > > > > > > if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > > > > > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all > > > > > > > > I would say that if you can throw darts at the skill tree with a blindfold on and still succeed, then the game has failed. GW2's system provides players the freedom to build however they like. This as opposed to a game like WoW, where you simply pick a class and a role and every choice you make falls within those parameters and only the latest content presents a challenge if you keep your gear current. GW2 lets you choose stats and traits with anti-synergy and your item level can't save you if you play like a potato. Pick your poison. I think both systems have their pros and cons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so its like a buffet, but you are only supposed to mix it like they intended? yea, that went well, didnt it? they either need to revamp the whole system, > > > or at least make some tutorials on buildcrafting. the steam crowd is gonna rip it apart in reviews, if they dont. oddly enough, EVE was about the same age before they made a proper tutorial too. > > > > You can quite literally build however you like. The system has no hard limits to prevent you from, for example, designing a hybrid DPS/healer that deals low damage while providing more healing than is necessary in solo play but also not enough healing/support to be useful in group play. You'll probably find yourself complaining about "HP sponges", failing DPS check mechanics, and getting into arguments with other players in groups if you use such a build, though. > > > > I'm not opposed to having better information, but I think the system is too complex for an effective tutorial. Resources like the forums, the wiki, and various fan sites do the deep diving required to really refine your understanding of buildcraft. If that's too much for some players to handle, perhaps an MMO where players typically play for years is not the best format for them? > > lol, 10 years of STO, 8 years dcuo, wow, FF ARR, CoH, SWTOR, wildstar, EVE, BDO, LOTRO, RIFT, AION, warframe, TERA, and the list goes on and on > if its a big mmo, theres a good chance, that i have played it at some point. still subbed to dcuo, but not playing as much anymore, due to burnout I'm not clear on how exactly that's a response to what I said, but if you're telling me that a player with your extensive background in MMOs should be able to decipher the mechanics and design a working build in a free-form system, I'd say that depends a lot on what sort of player you are. For instance, I have a friend who has played MMOs for 20 years but has never been particularly into mechanics and combat. She absolutely hated HoT, but when I gave her a build she could survive with she went right back to enjoying the game the way she always has. She doesn't care about being the best. She just wants to be able to play it and doesn't feel she should have to study up and practice to do it. There are builds for that!

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"SunTzu.4513" said: > > >and those 90% difference is one of the primary reasons for this problem. by scaling the game to the top 10 %, they basically flipped of all the normal players. > > not much casualism left there. it will hurt them in the wallet too, who do you think they are making the next expansion for? > > >if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all > > > > But GW2 delivers greatly to ''i play how/what i want'' players. You can beat all OW Stuff including every LS and basic group content up to T3 Fractals with any build you want. The only difference to a tailor made build for this type of content is that in the most time it's just more time intensive. The most important thing is the individual player skill in this game because we have no gear progression. Give one player who don't know anything about the class, mobs, skillmechaniks and breakbars a full ascendet equipped optimized build and another player who has knowledge of all these thing a not optimized build with green gear and he will easily outperform the metabuild just by be the better player. > > > > That's why i love GW2 so much. You can do everything how you wanna do it only the top Tier content ''needs'' meta stuff to be done. And even there you can run a cm or raid with non meta builds or teams it will just take longer. You don't need to get a lucky gear drop. You can really easy obtain bis gear from that point on only your skill is important if something is hard or easy. > > > > I have a group of friends we played DnD together when we where young. In those days we have a RPG group in Tyria. We all run flavour builds. I play a supportive human knightish/paladin like guardian with commanders gear and ministrel trinkets Mace/Sword/Shield as weapons and only shouts. The other player's run also rpg builds. We have done everything beside raids with this build comps. Once a month we do run a cm fractal. One run takes as long as a full daily run on a Metacomp but is perfectly doable. > > you can do that, because youre obviously a much better player than me. i would have to grind for a very long time, just to find a functional build. > and even IF i found one, there is simply no more content, that i enjoy to play. so we are talking about a lot of work with a very questionable return. > no thanks. If you don't enjoy the game, there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it. The logical conclusion is to go do something else, obviously. If, however, you want a build that can succeed in story/open world even with very little skill and/or knowledge of the class, there are definitely builds that allow for this. Try condi staff mirage. Nearly all of its damage and defenses derive from spamming dodge and auto-attack. It's not great damage, but it's good enough. And you'll sustain like a pro without even trying!

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > > > @"Shikaru.7618" said: > > > > > Here is something that a lot of the mmos youve mentioned have in common. They all have an easily identifiable gear score or damage score, so when you get a new piece of gear, you can make informed decisions at a glance and know if you're getting an upgrade or downgrade. Gw2 does not really present any of that information to you easily. It is very easy to gear and build your character incorrectly and be completely oblivious that you did so. The difference between the average player and top tier raiders is 10x according to a dev despite having the same tier of gear. Imagine if you magically dealt 10x damage right now. Would you still be struggling with open world? Thats the reality that a lot of us veterans are trying to tell you. Anything thats not a champion or bounty will basically melt in open world. You just need proper builds and proper stat combos on your gear. > > > > > > > > OK, but how would you construct such a gear score (SWTOR calls it "Item Rating", for reference) in GW2? Would it have to show bias toward certain stats? If so, why? (I have a Reaper build that's based on *Valkyrie* gear, kitten. With all that Vitality, a stat-biased gear score would probably mark it down, but it's almost indestructible and still delivers substantial damage.) Then again, in most games, the gear score (whatever it's called) is some way short of the full answer, since it almost never identifies gearsets that are weak because of an improper stat mix. > > > > > > > > And in general, this thread reminds me of something I said in [another thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1340112#Comment_1340112) ... > > > > > > > > > Game difficulty should not be set up for the wilfully obtuse. > > > > > > > > There is a very wide range of player-skill in any MMORPG, but while general content must take into account the less-skilled players, the players who will not learn how to play (not talking learning disabilities here, but wilful obtuseness) should not be part of that analysis. > > > > > > if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > > > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all > > > > I would say that if you can throw darts at the skill tree with a blindfold on and still succeed, then the game has failed. GW2's system provides players the freedom to build however they like. This as opposed to a game like WoW, where you simply pick a class and a role and every choice you make falls within those parameters and only the latest content presents a challenge if you keep your gear current. GW2 lets you choose stats and traits with anti-synergy and your item level can't save you if you play like a potato. Pick your poison. I think both systems have their pros and cons. > > > > > > so its like a buffet, but you are only supposed to mix it like they intended? yea, that went well, didnt it? they either need to revamp the whole system, > or at least make some tutorials on buildcrafting. the steam crowd is gonna rip it apart in reviews, if they dont. oddly enough, EVE was about the same age before they made a proper tutorial too. You can quite literally build however you like. The system has no hard limits to prevent you from, for example, designing a hybrid DPS/healer that deals low damage while providing more healing than is necessary in solo play but also not enough healing/support to be useful in group play. You'll probably find yourself complaining about "HP sponges", failing DPS check mechanics, and getting into arguments with other players in groups if you use such a build, though. I'm not opposed to having better information, but I think the system is too complex for an effective tutorial. Resources like the forums, the wiki, and various fan sites do the deep diving required to really refine your understanding of buildcraft. If that's too much for some players to handle, perhaps an MMO where players typically play for years is not the best format for them?

Playing bouncer during the Metal Legion rock concert?

> @"SunTzu.4513" said: > >and those 90% difference is one of the primary reasons for this problem. by scaling the game to the top 10 %, they basically flipped of all the normal players. > not much casualism left there. it will hurt them in the wallet too, who do you think they are making the next expansion for? > >if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all > > But GW2 delivers greatly to ''i play how/what i want'' players. You can beat all OW Stuff including every LS and basic group content up to T3 Fractals with any build you want. The only difference to a tailor made build for this type of content is that in the most time it's just more time intensive. The most important thing is the individual player skill in this game because we have no gear progression. Give one player who don't know anything about the class, mobs, skillmechaniks and breakbars a full ascendet equipped optimized build and another player who has knowledge of all these thing a not optimized build with green gear and he will easily outperform the metabuild just by be the better player. > > That's why i love GW2 so much. You can do everything how you wanna do it only the top Tier content ''needs'' meta stuff to be done. And even there you can run a cm or raid with non meta builds or teams it will just take longer. You don't need to get a lucky gear drop. You can really easy obtain bis gear from that point on only your skill is important if something is hard or easy. > > I have a group of friends we played DnD together when we where young. In those days we have a RPG group in Tyria. We all run flavour builds. I play a supportive human knightish/paladin like guardian with commanders gear and ministrel trinkets Mace/Sword/Shield as weapons and only shouts. The other player's run also rpg builds. We have done everything beside raids with this build comps. Once a month we do run a cm fractal. One run takes as long as a full daily run on a Metacomp but is perfectly doable. I have to agree that there is plenty of room to play the way you want to play. I build and play for the things I like to do most, which is solo play open world/story, WvW roaming, unranked PvP. In terms of group PvE I will do strikes if my guild happens to be doing them and I like to do my T4 fractal dailies sometimes, usually via LFG. But raiding and CMs I have only done a little bit. Given that, I play a roamer-style build that is tough as nails while dealing solid damage. It's resilient enough to survive all of the HoT champions solo, while also dealing enough damage to take most of them down in less than 60 seconds. The burst and sustained damage is adequate for strikes and T4 fractals, even CMs, but not appropriate for something like a daily static (which is fine, because I've never been a part of one!). I can use almost the same build and play style at plat level in PvP or go solo roam with it (I'm well over rank 2000 there), too. It's not meta for anything. I don't even use anything close to the recommended rotation, stats, or even trait lines for my class. But I have at least some idea of what I'm doing and I've made these choices for a reason to come up with a play style that I enjoy and does what I need it to do. To me, that's the magic of GW2's "do whatever you want" method of handling buildcraft.

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > @"Shikaru.7618" said: > > > Here is something that a lot of the mmos youve mentioned have in common. They all have an easily identifiable gear score or damage score, so when you get a new piece of gear, you can make informed decisions at a glance and know if you're getting an upgrade or downgrade. Gw2 does not really present any of that information to you easily. It is very easy to gear and build your character incorrectly and be completely oblivious that you did so. The difference between the average player and top tier raiders is 10x according to a dev despite having the same tier of gear. Imagine if you magically dealt 10x damage right now. Would you still be struggling with open world? Thats the reality that a lot of us veterans are trying to tell you. Anything thats not a champion or bounty will basically melt in open world. You just need proper builds and proper stat combos on your gear. > > > > OK, but how would you construct such a gear score (SWTOR calls it "Item Rating", for reference) in GW2? Would it have to show bias toward certain stats? If so, why? (I have a Reaper build that's based on *Valkyrie* gear, kitten. With all that Vitality, a stat-biased gear score would probably mark it down, but it's almost indestructible and still delivers substantial damage.) Then again, in most games, the gear score (whatever it's called) is some way short of the full answer, since it almost never identifies gearsets that are weak because of an improper stat mix. > > > > And in general, this thread reminds me of something I said in [another thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1340112#Comment_1340112) ... > > > > > Game difficulty should not be set up for the wilfully obtuse. > > > > There is a very wide range of player-skill in any MMORPG, but while general content must take into account the less-skilled players, the players who will not learn how to play (not talking learning disabilities here, but wilful obtuseness) should not be part of that analysis. > > if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failed > if they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all I would say that if you can throw darts at the skill tree with a blindfold on and still succeed, then the game has failed. GW2's system provides players the freedom to build however they like. This as opposed to a game like WoW, where you simply pick a class and a role and every choice you make falls within those parameters and only the latest content presents a challenge if you keep your gear current. GW2 lets you choose stats and traits with anti-synergy and your item level can't save you if you play like a potato. Pick your poison. I think both systems have their pros and cons.

There's a recent thread talking about how weaver feels "clunky", which refers to the tradeoff of having a 4 second attunement swap cooldown, but also being locked into that swap for 4 seconds while having your offhand weapon skills determined by the choice made on the previous swap 4 seconds prior. But I think that once you get the hang of the unique attunement swapping mechanics, weaver has a really great flow to it! Check out this fight against the bandit champion Ezal the Quick. Using combinations of fire, air, and earth I'm able to play aggressively and really lay down the burn while also accessing all of the projectile defense, invuln, and evasion I need from air and earth to avoid nearly all of the incoming damage. Weaver's mechanics are a tradeoff. That means you give up some advantages, but you also gain some new ones!

I will not stand for this cultural appropriation.