draxynnic.3719

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

> >

> > For someone who's supposed to be _good_ at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

> What has Smodur ever actually negotiated himself though? The big thing usually accredited to him, the Ebonhawk Treaty, was almost entirely the work of Almorra, and Malice. He just likes taking the credit, something brought up in this very episode.

Almorra and Malice were (among) the first to decide that a truce with humans was the better option and helped to persuade Smodur, but Smodur is the one who did the actual negotiating, directly or through delegates, since the region formerly known as Ascalon is Iron Legion territory. And he's made a fair few territorial concessions in the process.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> * He accepted help from Blood and Ash because he couldn't fight the ghosts, flame legion, and Asclonians on his own

Pretty sure Smodur hasn't been alive, let alone Imperator, long enough to have been the one to have made that decision. The Blood-Ash-Iron alliance goes back pretty much to the Plains of Golghein.

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > Hey guys.

> >

> > Did you know that each individual shatter from Chrono procs Confusion?

> >

> > I didn't until I kept getting one-shot by random Basalisk mobs in Ember Bay.

> >

> > So... Yeah... Have fun taking 8 Confusion procs if you shatter!

>

> Wait, it procs on YOURSELF? Who releases with a bug like that?

I think, although I might be wrong, that what @"Taril.8619" was referring to is that if you have Confusion on you, each shatter counts as a different skill activation for the purpose of taking damage from that Confusion. So instead of taking a single proc of Confusion on pressing F1, it does 2-8 depending on how many clones you have up.

Adult reef drakes (not so much juveniles, unfortunately for PC rangers) can dish out a lot of Confusion, so unknowingly having something proc the Confusion eight times when you'd expect it to only proc once would be _nasty._

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Remove most burn core traits(improve support and power specs), add burn on FB condi cleanse with block from its healing.

>

> Make next Holy fire Sword sword elite spec builded to burn targets and empower from burn on hitsellf.

Every other profession can go condi just off what's available in core, although warrior is still fairly light on options. And even condi builds that use elite specialisations usually work with core traits.

It's actually somewhat interesting that in some formats core burn guard outperforms condi firebrand, but I don't think it's a bad thing that there's a core build that outperforms the elite.

> @"Xca.9721" said:

> They want to nerf Condi Revs sustain, but instead of nerfing the Resistance uptime they nerf the protection uptime, gutting other non condi rev specs in the process

To be fair, they did nerf all of the extra sustain that condi herald was getting out of Resistance. They cut the damage reduction trait in half, and reduced the healing-while-having-Resistance trait.

Problem is, they felt the need to drop the hammer on pretty much _every_ bit of sustain that was used in the build. Would have been better to start off with the nerfs to the Corruption traits a month or two ago, and then waited to see if the other nerfs were necessary.

First minute of the video: Play what works for you, the balance is such that finding the profession that works for you is more important than what's objectively better. (I'm not sure that's quite true, I think some professions are generally hurting at the moment, but guardian isn't _so_ good that it's objectively better for high-end PvE content than the likes of revenant, mesmer, and other professions that can bring both good DPS and good support builds)

1:00-1:30 If (Nike) was giving advice to a new player starting off... (Let's face it, guardian _is_ simpler to play than a lot of other professions. Being new-player-friendly, however, is not a reason to nerf something.)

1:30-2:30 Guardian weapons have good internal balance. (This is an indicator of good design, not being broken.)

2:30-3:30 Guardian has a wide range of roles it can fill. (Being versatile is not an indicator that any given build is overpowered. Having a lot of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into one or two is, instead, an indicator of good design.)

3:30-4:00 Guardian is good in all PvE game modes. (Likely because of the versatility factor above. Again, being good everywhere doesn't mean it's overpowered to the point of needing a nerf anywhere.)

4:00-4:45 Aesthetics. (Helps explain popularity, if a significant portion of the player base agree, but looking good does not mean overpowered.)

4:45+ Conclusion

So yeah, I'm not seeing anything in there that supports your argument that guardian needs a big nerf. Nowhere there does Nike say that guardians are significantly more powerful than other professions or that its essential in any content (it really isn't, everything any guardian build brings to high-end PvE has at least one other profession that can bring the same thing, as opposed to some things like banners and certain traits that are unique to specific professions and mean that you usually want at least one of that profession in instanced content). Instead, he's pretty much saying what we've been saying - it's a well designed profession that can serve in a variety of roles and which has a variety of builds.

Which is the essence of the whole 'guardian is in a good place' line that ArenaNet has been giving for years. It's usually not the thing that's dominant in sPvP (although support firebrand was for a while). It's not the top DPS. It's just something that can provide solid performance in a variety of circumstances.

If you're looking to argue that guardian is too dominant, you'd be better served by pointing towards the Snowcrows raid setup guides. A lot of them _are_ stacked towards guardians (those that aren't mostly stack mesmers, with one that stacks thieves, and one that splits thieves and revenants). But one thing that you'll also note is that _every_ raid build, without fail, has at least one ranger and at least one warrior, and all but two have at least one revenant. There's a reason for this - because those professions bring unique party stat boosts to the table.

But what's _actually_ happening is that guardian fulfills one of the original promises of Guild Wars 2: that any profession can fill a variety of roles effectively without being pigeon-holed into one. It's not the only profession that achieves this, but the others that manage this are all more difficult to play and are hence a bit less popular. You shouldn't be asking for guardian to be nerfed because it has versatility - you should be asking for other professions to be brought up to the same level of versatility.

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > > Being pragmatic doesn't mean you're doing the best thing, just what you think is best.

> > >

> > > no, pragmatic is usually the way of least resistance, or a status quo solution

> > > "best" for who? you? your country/ state/fraction? giving your life in defense of your country is bad for you , but good for the rest of the population

> >

> > Pragmatism is seeking effectiveness. Smodur thinks it's effective to kill them, he orders it.

>

> yep...4 dead losers over a steady alliance. he could even just had done it LATER, and in SECRET. this isnt leadership, its a clown show

> you want to follow him, go for it. i doubt many will join you

> and a REAL pragmatic would had used them as dog food...or target dummies..or slaves in a mine

Yeah, that's the thing. Smodur had previously been portrayed as a consummate politician and a successful negotiator, for better or worse. However much he might think a bit of ruthlessness is justified, he should know how his allies are likely to react to his behaviour - especially Malice, who's been the Ash Imperator for about a decade if not more. In particular, he just unilaterally ruined a negotiation that Malice had risked her life to set up.

For someone who's supposed to be _good_ at diplomacy, at least by charr standards, that's an idiot ball move.

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > I dont mind the change, keep Draconic echo :) its important for ventari and herald/ventari, but Facet of Chaos can now have a -3 to -4 pip consume ?

> >

> > We don't want to remove Dracobic Echo, but gutting a core part of Herald that isn't even a problem is just the wrong move no matter how you look at it. Facet of Chaos should stay at -5 and cover pulse timing by default. No facet should require boon duration to maintain when active, and dropping the upkeep cost to compensate for this hilariously stupid nerf will not make up for how bad it is. Draconic Echo needs to be nerfed before anything, not Facets.

>

> Well how can u nerf draconic echo????

> U have it or u dont have it... and herald/ventari builds would loose here, cause draconic echo is what makes ventari a bit better, its f2 can effect 10 players, and remember regen is always the weekest(most time doest even matter much having regen or not) kind of heals in any pvp gamemode.

I think someone has already said: Reduce the additional duration of the facet from Draconic Echo from 6 seconds to 3 (essentially, one facet 'tick' instead of two).

Presently, the problem with Facet of Chaos and Draconic Echo is that you can activate it and consume it _immediately_ for nine seconds of protection for every ally around you (and a pretty significant CC effect, albeit with one of the biggest tells in the game), consuming relatively little energy in the process. Reducing Draconic Echo to one additional tick instead of two would make it six seconds instead - which is about the same difference that the proposed change would make, but would not be compromising the benefit of paying the price to actually maintain the facet. In the meantime, the effects of the other facets would also be pared back a bit, instead of the full effect of the nerf landing on just Facet of Chaos. (Mind you, other facets are typically maintained for longer periods).

Being a simple numbers change, this is also something that would be easy to split, so PvE could be left as-is. WvW use of the Glint/Ventari build would be affected, but considering that that build tries to maintain Facet of Light and Facet of Chaos for as long as possible, it'd probably be less affected by a nerf to Draconic Echo than a nerf to Facet of Chaos.

So if you want to protect your herald/ventari build, you _should_ be advocating for the nerf to land on Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos.

I suspect that's it. If a map isn't completing, sooner or later the game will either close it to move its players elsewhere, or shift enough players onto the map so that it does complete.

It's worth noting that while the Glory of Tyria was the first of its kind, it's not unique - there are multiple wrecks of airships from that class in Heart of Thorns.

With respect to Cantha, two observations:

First, it was the rise of Zhaitan that ended trade with Cantha, not the Ministry of Purity. So it doesn't seem as if they're so xenophobic as to block human visitors. Other races might be more of a problem, but Cantha has always viewed itself as a trading empire - it might well accept nonhumans as long as they remain in designated areas.

Second, trade has been cut off for long enough that Canthan policy may have flipflopped, possibly even multiple times. I suspect we will find ourselves going up against some form of corruption in the Canthan government at some point (that much has pretty much been a constant, it just changes form), but it could well be something that LOOKS functional when we first arrive.

> @"jan.7915" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > @"Armen.1483" said:

> > > > Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

> > >

> > > Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

> > >

> > > As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It's also one of the most stable professions. It gets tweaked every so often to be sure, but you could take a pre-HoT core build, or an immediately post-release dragonhunter or firebrand build, and there's a good chance it'll still work (I think the only one that was destroyed utterly was the one based around spamming aegis with Tome of Courage to trigger aegis traits). They may not be optimal, but they'll still work.

> >

> > Try saying that about, say, Mesmer.

> >

> > In an environment where ascended (and even some exotic stats) is a significant investment, this makes guardian a good choice because you're not likely to have gone to all that investment only to have it invalidated in the next patch. It also helps that it has versatility to fill a variety of roles, and some of the gear can potentially be shifted to warrior (banners) or rev (alacrity) if the group needs it. Once you've got a guardian going, then you can start working on a more 'exotic' option on the basis that if said option gets an overhaul which compromises it's viability and/or enjoyability, guardian is there as a fallback.

> >

> > So if you're basing your opinion on the balance state of guardians on how many you see in high-end PvE or even WvW, you may be looking at people who are starting off with guardian because it's a safer investment.

>

> I agree with everything but the point about ascended cost. 10h of medium efficient gaming like finishing your bounty achiev isn't a huge investment of time/effort for an endgame gear set.

>

> Also, I picked guardian because of how gs4 looks.

Different people have different ideas of what is expensive. For some people, 10h of farming rather than spending their gaming time doing something they enjoy more is a significant investment. Not an insurmountable one, to be sure, but enough that you don't want to do that and then have it invalidated in the next balance patch.

At the very least, it's a contributing factor that can hinder some people in picking up new builds as the meta shifts, which means that builds that have been relatively stable for a while are likely to be over-represented. (Another contributing factor along similar lines is that if the build remains stable, you're not having to constantly re-learn your rotations.)

> @"otto.5684" said:

> @"draxynnic.3719" Indeed. Guardian is probably your safest bet in PvE. It has multiple meta builds, of which some go back years ago. And I do not foresee that changing. I think guardian is a good role model of where classes need to be PvE wise. Nothing out performing (maybe FmW still), yet everything is fairly strong, works in most PvE situation, good support (even on dps builds) and multiple viable builds. That does not make it OP, just well designed. And, there is room for improvements. Many things do need improvements. And that is what I look for in patch notes, but usually nothing.

Yeah. it hasn't changed much in part because it was well designed to begin with, and in part because it doesn't try to play in niche playstyles to begin with (see, again, mesmer. I like mesmers, but by Lyssa, there's a profession that seems to be almost completely different every year or so...)

One of the things I consider ironic here is that condi firebrand DPS isn't all that huge. It's competitive when you have allies to add Ashes of the Just to, but most professions can bench higher and warrior doesn't fall short by much (necromancer falls short by a lot, which is a necromancer problem rather than a guardian problem, although they do have Epidemic). Firebrigade probably does sacrifice less DPS overall than chrono, but it doesn't seem to be a huge difference and sometimes there are advantages to having both buffs in one package.

Power dragonhunter is pretty high up there, but that's not what they're hitting now.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I think we should change the language ... it's not a matter of 'minor' support ... it's a matter of significance. Sure maybe Necro has increased it's support tools 'three times' since release (honestly, i don't know how anyone can quantify that) ... but if it's not a making it a desirable team member ... it really doesn't matter does it?

I think the amount of extra support necromancer has received needs to be measured against how the game has shifted.

On release, GW2 was a game where basically everyone was primarily DPS, and any support they brought was largely incidental apart from stability and stealth (for skips) - and even those were just a matter of adding a couple of utility skills to an otherwise DPS-oriented build. Sure, there were certain things you wanted such as might stacking, but this was usually just a small part of the build.

Now, we have healbrands, alacrigades, chronos, druids, and genuine heal eles. Warriors (except banners), thieves, and engineers have always been relatively selfish, but still have their own support-oriented builds. Necromancer having had substantial upgrades to its support doesn't change that it's relatively selfish when there have been substantial upgrades to support across the board. Barrierscourge is a thing, and can be quite helpful in some circumstances, but it's far from being the first thing people think of in terms of support builds.

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Armen.1483" said:

> > Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

>

> Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

>

> As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

>

>

It's also one of the most stable professions. It gets tweaked every so often to be sure, but you could take a pre-HoT core build, or an immediately post-release dragonhunter or firebrand build, and there's a good chance it'll still work (I think the only one that was destroyed utterly was the one based around spamming aegis with Tome of Courage to trigger aegis traits). They may not be optimal, but they'll still work.

Try saying that about, say, Mesmer.

In an environment where ascended (and even some exotic stats) is a significant investment, this makes guardian a good choice because you're not likely to have gone to all that investment only to have it invalidated in the next patch. It also helps that it has versatility to fill a variety of roles, and some of the gear can potentially be shifted to warrior (banners) or rev (alacrity) if the group needs it. Once you've got a guardian going, then you can start working on a more 'exotic' option on the basis that if said option gets an overhaul which compromises it's viability and/or enjoyability, guardian is there as a fallback.

So if you're basing your opinion on the balance state of guardians on how many you see in high-end PvE or even WvW, you may be looking at people who are starting off with guardian because it's a safer investment.

The Charr certainly aren't inherently evil, but their society is definitely militaristic. The Olmakhan are essentially the exception that proves the rule there - they are how they are because they LEFT charr society.

What we've been seeing, though, is that the charr are on the cusp of a change. As @"Hannelore.8153" pointed out, the Iron Legion is reaching a point where it could probably benefit from shifting its industries away from a war economy. I suspect Ash also has aims of forming a trading empire as well - Malice was probably the first Imperator to support the idea of peace with humans. Bangar is the reactionary.

Personally, I don't think we'll see a redemption for Bangar. He's gone too far off the deep end, and whether it makes sense for the setting or not, the last episode did establish that the charr have a concept of war crimes. It's possible that like Ferengi deals, this is a 'but only among charr' thing, but Bangar has at this point been implicated in ethnic cleansing of the Drizzlewood Coast and murdering a helpless prisoner, and that's just what we know about.

To be fair - blast finishers from engineers often do involve something detonating, while toolbelt skills usually don't. So the name does seem to fit better with the old version.

On the Inventions versus Tools thing - healing traits are pretty much concentrated in Inventions and Alchemy, so I think the logic is to keep those party support traits concentrated in two core traitlines. It's then up to the player whether to add Tools for shorter recharges, a support-oriented elite spec such as Scrapper, dropping Alchemy to take both, or maybe going a bit offensive rather than purely support-oriented.

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> > > > > # Elites

> > > > > > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > > > > > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > > > > > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> > > > > Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> > > > > As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

> > > > But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

> > >

> > > That is literally what he wrote, tho.

> > >

> > > >As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, **they'll just do so more often.**

> > Apparently I was too drunk and missed again.

> >

>

> Go have some more elixir B.

Wouldn't it be elixir C under the circumstances?

Yeah, the change to Sevenshot does look like a significant boost. I think it'd probably still have a similar problem to skill 2 now with the additional arrows missing easily due to simple movement, but it probably won't be as bad, and certainly won't be as awkward as it is _now._

Has anyone gone in and suggested nerfing Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos in the feedback threads?

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> There's been many reasons put forth for why the dragons are focused on Central Tyria, all of them more or less viable. Remember, there was alot of Tyrian history before even the Human Gods, and the dragons likely focused around where sentient races lived.

>

> When they went to sleep it would've been wherever they consumed the most magic, and its been shown that migrating uses alot of magic, so they rarely do it. We were even able to track Primordus because of the "currents of magic" it was leaving behind. I suspect this is the reason that Zhaitan and Mordremoth decided to form strong-holds over major ley-line hubs and let their minions do the work instead.

Personally, my theory is that when the Seers were creating the Bloodstone, the Elder Dragons could sense where the magic was going and following it, which meant that they were in the process of converging on Central Tyria when the magic levels were lowered enough for them to go into hibernation.

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > Sword is pretty decent in my experience. In fact, in my experience, revenants (both heralds and renegades) have some of the highest solo DPS, since they provide a lot of the means for boosting the DPS of themselves and others. They'd be pretty broken if they could provide all that party support and still match the DPS of the dedicated DPS builds (keeping in mind that the dedicated DPS builds are only getting such high numbers because they're receiving boons they can't provide themselves).

> >

> > Sword is balanced somewhat around generating vulnerability stacks, but on the other hand, it has those vulnerability stacks in the first place - those 25 stacks of vulnerability have to come from somewhere, after all - and it's also a means of proccing Dance of Death.

> >

> > Now, when it comes to ranged weapons, then we can talk. It's a testimony to how bad hammer is that power renegades use shortbow, but core revenants and heralds are stuck with it as their only ranged option.

>

> The only way for Revenant to be performing better would be to self buff with Quickness, would be so cheat in other gamemode it won't happen.

Strictly speaking, they _can,_ but the tradeoffs aren't really worth it.

> @"Shinzan.2908" said:

> This would need fleshing out but like... I want a gun mage. Weapon is rifle, it has the same skills in all attunements. Atunements become elemental ammo, give your attacks bonuses like applying conditions, either for as long as it's active or for a number of attacks after swapping.

Plus, there are _so many_ elemental-themed rifles that don't really work well for warrior, engineer, or even deadeye.

I probably would be inclined to keep it having different skills for each attunement, thought, but let it keep a focus on long-range single-target damage in all attunements.

If you're thinking about doing group content, condition (or, rather, hybrid, since you never really want to completely neglect power damage as a guardian, but viper, sinister, and grieving all count) is the way to go. WP has a power solo build, but that works on the assumption that you're mostly fighting trash mobs out on your own. Firebrand is largely intended for support and conditions to offset the largely power-oriented DH.

The open world meta events recommendation seems to be full viper's (you could chase up Nike's condition quickbrand video, for instance) since you won't reliably be getting the same boons that you'd get in raids, but you probably won't go too far wrong if you go with the snowcrows condition and condition quickbrand builds.

Sword is pretty decent in my experience. In fact, in my experience, revenants (both heralds and renegades) have some of the highest solo DPS, since they provide a lot of the means for boosting the DPS of themselves and others. They'd be pretty broken if they could provide all that party support and still match the DPS of the dedicated DPS builds (keeping in mind that the dedicated DPS builds are only getting such high numbers because they're receiving boons they can't provide themselves).

Sword is balanced somewhat around generating vulnerability stacks, but on the other hand, it has those vulnerability stacks in the first place - those 25 stacks of vulnerability have to come from somewhere, after all - and it's also a means of proccing Dance of Death.

Now, when it comes to ranged weapons, then we can talk. It's a testimony to how bad hammer is that power renegades use shortbow, but core revenants and heralds are stuck with it as their only ranged option.

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > (snip) You also don't want to play as Kalla, **only Shiro/Jalis if you opt for Renegade.**

>

> Why, if renegade even boosts condi and makes it more sense to use deamon with it?

>

Renegade also boosts power damage. Kalla's Fervor is 30 ferocity per stack, 50 with Lasting Legacy, and the minors also relate to critical hits, which generally help power builds more than condition builds. Ashen Demeanor works equally well with power and condi, while Wrought-Iron Will is better with high Power due to Retaliation. There isn't really an obvious power damage trait among the grandmaster majors, but all of them can be situationally useful for power builds (Heartpiercer only when using shortbow, but that's to be expected).

The big issue hammer has, really, is that the slow attack speed makes it antisynergetic with half of the revenant's toolbox.

> @"Fenella.2634" said:

> First, I think people are taking Joko's trash talking way too seriously. ;)

>

> All in all, right now I don't get the impression the Commanders are unstable or getting worse. Quite the opposite. And also, I think Joko was just doing his usual thing and should not be taken seriously at all.

Cut out the parts I'm not responding to...

ArenaNet did say they deliberately had Joko getting cut off so that he couldn't be interrogated for details, but in Joko's case it's a bit of a 'he's not entirely _wrong_, but he's certainly not telling the whole truth either and is missing a lot of the nuance'. About the only time the Commander could be said to have had a real choice was Zhaitan - it's possible that Zhaitan could have been contained, and may even have returned to a state of relative quiescence after the assault on Lion's Arch was repulsed if the Pact hadn't started going after him in turn. But back then, we really had no clue that killing the dragons could be a bad thing.

In Mordremoth's case, we had a few clues, but Mordremoth was just too close to too many important things to be left alone. The Exalted, who were probably the most knowledgeable about what was going on, were urging us to go ahead and kill Mordremoth despite the risks. Mordremoth was simply too close to Tarir, Rata Sum, and the Grove, and it wasn't practical to keep him contained in the long term.

Killing Balthazar is a pretty clear-cut case of choosing the least bad option. If not stopped, Balthazar's actions were going to result in the world's destruction. The PC tried negotiation, but Balthazar wasn't listening. The consequences of killing Balthazar were, ultimately, more manageable than the consequences of letting Balthazar kill the Elder Dragons without having any replacements.

All things considered, the PC has left a trail of chaos in their wake... but things would probably be _worse_ if not for the PC. However, it's certainly understandable that the PC might not be so sure of that.