draxynnic.3719

> @"Smoosh.2718" said: > Time will tell what weapon the warrior will get, mark my words on this however, if for any reason warrior does get staff / spear. You'll be wishing you got another weapon as they will not change the way you play warrior in the slightest. While I largely agree with the rest on principle, this (and a similar statement earlier in your post, I disagree with. There's one role you haven't considered - melee support. May not be something you care for yourself, but it is something that others have proposed.

> @"volca.7234" said: > People who say it should be like engie kits are insane... > Engie got only 5 weapon skills that's why they get immediate access to weapon kits **BECAUSE THEY NEED IT** , Ele got 20 weapon skill more if u weaver it would be broken to get the same treatment. > My solution would be this pic i made i feel its balanced because it still favor weapon sharers, and allow you to be selfish just at the cost of longer ammo recharge > As for step 2, instead of dropping weapon if devs want to put more effort they can force action cam and make us aim for our friend target that we want to share with, that would be cool but doubt they will do it > >  > > I don't think the kit analogy is suggesting free swapping like engineer has, just that it's entirely selfish in purpose. It'd still likely have a long-ish cooldown like it does now. What would probably be a lot simpler if we do want it to be sharable, though, would be that while the elementalist is holding a weapon, the Conjure X skill flips over to another skill which allows the elementalist to spawn a second copy of the weapon as an environmental object, but doing so cuts 30s off the duration of the elementalist's own weapon (from a base of 60s). Alternatively, it could have its recharge reduced to 30s and become an ammo skill, but using the flipover to generate a second weapon as an environmental object uses the second charge.

> @"Kencu.5846" said: > Usually I use my shatters to get stab while stomping lol Given how many traits there are that influence shatters, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that anything that replaces them will trigger the same traits, including Bountiful Disillusionment.

> @"Heika.5403" said: > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > > > Deceptive Evasion should be the grandmaster minor in duelist trait line and add a new grandmaster. > > deceptive evasion is still very useful vs many other traits, and i prefer it stays an option so i dont involuntarily spawn brainless ai each time i get snagged in combat ~~in pve~~ anywhere really > > Well it only works in combat not make you enter in combat but i understand what you prefer. Then add it something more to Deceptive Evasion aside the clone on dodge. Yeah, I think the point isn't that it gets you INTO combat, but that it KEEPS you in combat for longer than you might otherwise be after being tagged by something you don't actually want to fight. Similar to rangers having to recall their pets.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > The Commander has been pretty consistently supportive of Braham in previous parts of the Icebrood Saga, and was pretty sceptical of Ryland, his relationship to Jormag, and the Frost Legion in "Truce". I don't think it's going to be the Commander being the gullible one here - if nothing else, the Commander is keeping in mind the prophecy involving Braham and expecting it to come to a head _sometime._ > The commander didn't smash Ryland to pieces as soon as possible. > To me, that's far more than enough of an indicator that the commander is buying into Jormag's story. > There's a wide spectrum between killing someone at the first reasonable opportunity and believing everything they say. At the moment, I think the Commander's attitude is "the enemy's enemy is my enemy's enemy." I don't think the Commander has any reasonable expectation of an outcome that doesn't involve bringing Jormag down, but if Jormag can be made to help in fighting Primordus at least a little before it becomes a three-way war, that's better than precipitating the three-way war right away. Attacking Ryland at the first opportunity would essentially be a declaration of war, at a point where there's little benefit to doing so except perhaps deny Jormag some tactical insight. The Commander has been sceptical of Ryland in all their discussions, and even if the Commander was willing to declare war right away, attacking Ryland in Rata Sum when he was there as the Arcane Council's guest would probably have just got the Commander arrested, and doing so in Brisban Wildlands may have been the distraction that led to destroyers (or Frost Legion reinforcements) winning there. Ryland hightailed out of there pretty quickly (via portal) after the region was secured. > @"hugo.4705" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > I can only see two plausible ways for the story to go: > > > > 1) Jormag outright "betrays" the truce (which never actually existed to begin with). > > > > Everyone will be "surprised". > > > > > > > > 2) It'll be a situation where Jormag tells the Svanir to attack us and then tells use that they did it on their own volition. > > > > And the brain-dead commander and followers will belief Jormag. > > > > > > > > At this point, I don't think Arenanet can salvage Season 5 into anything even resembling an almost-decent story. > > > > > > This is my fear. The current interactions with Jormag seem to require the Commander and Co. to be dumbed down. I *think* it'll come down to 'persuasion magic' in the end, so it's technically not our fault we were gullible because we, along with Aurene, were being subtly influenced by Jormag's magical domain. In the past we've usually had some indication people are being influenced by Jormag though, or at least Jormag via Drakkar. If the resolution is 'we made a mistake' it's going to have to be perfectly written and executed with all the proper reasoning and evidence, or else I'll be so disappointed and upset. I am still not over Jormag telling us the balance is fake and no one making a peep. The only excusable explanation is magical manipulation, and even that feels like a weak argument, though one I *could* accept with proper build-up and explanation. > > > > > > Something GW2 devs seem to do a lot is leave things vague in game, and then 'confirm' or explain things in dev talks, which is... bad. These things should be clear in the context of the game. > > > > I don't think we're likely to see the Commander buy in to what Jormag is saying here. The Commander has been pretty consistently supportive of Braham in previous parts of the Icebrood Saga, and was pretty sceptical of Ryland, his relationship to Jormag, and the Frost Legion in "Truce". I don't think it's going to be the Commander being the gullible one here - if nothing else, the Commander is keeping in mind the prophecy involving Braham and expecting it to come to a head _sometime._ > > > > The bigger potential problem is that Jormag is clearly getting to some of the _others_. With that said, though, the asura seem to have been the only ones who have really bought in so far. Caithe is polite with Ryland, but sceptical, and starts pushing back harder when Ryland starts gaslighting her and the Commander - given her past experience with Faolain, she possibly recognised what Ryland was doing. > > Dunno about the asura, maybe taimi, but if you see the end of the dock instance the council or haia said that asura are enough strong to defend themselves but she thanks about the gesture and alliance. To me is that tjey discussed, but asura stay independant and don't really made a traty or anything with ryland. In the first instance too, only three councillors, what about opinions of others? > Seeing that asura got nuked by primordius underground because they were confident, don't see why the story wouldn't repeat itself. > The dialogue don't really hint as alliance, it would have ended more like "you proven to be worthy and a correct ace in the hand for what is upcoming, the alliance is concluded, you and your troops are free to patrol around" it's the opposite in the in game dialogue. > > I'm worried for taimi that seems pro jormag and said skrittshit in drm metrica, gorrik seems to have it's head with rytlock and braham and commander that are against/not trusting jormag. Dunno about jora, marjory, kasmeer, canach, but don't think they like jormag either. And like I said above, there's a spectrum. The Arcane Council don't trust Jormag enough to have icebrood (even intelligent icebrood like the Frost Legion) stationed in their city... or perhaps their refusal is more of a matter of pride (something they have in spades). The impression I get, though, is that the Arcane Council might at least be considering the idea that long-term coexistence with Jormag is possible, while I think the Commander, at least for now, has ruled that out due to the prophecy (and possibly because the Commander has seen what Jormag has already done and doesn't buy the "I did what I had to to survive" justification). Come to think on it, one other part of the Commander's viewpoint is that while Jormag can speak honeyed words when talking to mortals, they seem to have forgotten (or not realised) that the Commander was listening in while Jormag was expressing absolute contempt towards mortals to Aurene.

> @"Svennis.3852" said: > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > I can only see two plausible ways for the story to go: > > 1) Jormag outright "betrays" the truce (which never actually existed to begin with). > > Everyone will be "surprised". > > > > 2) It'll be a situation where Jormag tells the Svanir to attack us and then tells use that they did it on their own volition. > > And the brain-dead commander and followers will belief Jormag. > > > > At this point, I don't think Arenanet can salvage Season 5 into anything even resembling an almost-decent story. > > This is my fear. The current interactions with Jormag seem to require the Commander and Co. to be dumbed down. I *think* it'll come down to 'persuasion magic' in the end, so it's technically not our fault we were gullible because we, along with Aurene, were being subtly influenced by Jormag's magical domain. In the past we've usually had some indication people are being influenced by Jormag though, or at least Jormag via Drakkar. If the resolution is 'we made a mistake' it's going to have to be perfectly written and executed with all the proper reasoning and evidence, or else I'll be so disappointed and upset. I am still not over Jormag telling us the balance is fake and no one making a peep. The only excusable explanation is magical manipulation, and even that feels like a weak argument, though one I *could* accept with proper build-up and explanation. > > Something GW2 devs seem to do a lot is leave things vague in game, and then 'confirm' or explain things in dev talks, which is... bad. These things should be clear in the context of the game. I don't think we're likely to see the Commander buy in to what Jormag is saying here. The Commander has been pretty consistently supportive of Braham in previous parts of the Icebrood Saga, and was pretty sceptical of Ryland, his relationship to Jormag, and the Frost Legion in "Truce". I don't think it's going to be the Commander being the gullible one here - if nothing else, the Commander is keeping in mind the prophecy involving Braham and expecting it to come to a head _sometime._ The bigger potential problem is that Jormag is clearly getting to some of the _others_. With that said, though, the asura seem to have been the only ones who have really bought in so far. Caithe is polite with Ryland, but sceptical, and starts pushing back harder when Ryland starts gaslighting her and the Commander - given her past experience with Faolain, she possibly recognised what Ryland was doing.

Lying isn't the only way someone can be abusive. For instance, what really tipped me off is Jormag's discussion with Aurene in the first instance. They're telling her that mortals can't help her, that what she's been trying to accomplish is a fantasy, and that only with Jormag can she reach her full potential. That's a pretty blatant isolating technique. I've gone into some more detail [here](http://virtuallyinterrupted.com/jormag-elder-dragon-of-ice-and-psychological-abuse/). (So glad I got that up BEFORE the teaser, if only by a day.)

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > > > > Heck, in a Canthan-themed expansion, there might be multiple elite specialisations based around bringing a bit of ritualism into existing professions. We've had fire magic warrior and antimagic warrior... what about a spirit warrior infusing spirits into their weapons and those of their allies? Why not? It'd be an interesting way to make a support warrior that isn't just about planting a banner or two or resorting to W/Mo themes (which is the guardian's playspace, especially support firebrands). Or a mesmer whose phantasms are actual ghosts? That could have some legs - I'm not sure just which aspect of the ritualist it would actually borrow, but at this point I'm largely brainstorming. Point is, there are more imaginative things that can be done with ritualist themes than just piling them onto revenant... and MUCH more imaginative things that can be done with the revenant rather than pushing it into the corner of being a refuge for disenfranchised ritualist players. > > > > > > I mean this is what will most likely happen. However, should be noted that spreading out Ritualist themes across multiple professions SHOULDN'T preclude Rev from being able to get a "Master Togo/Razah/other" ritualist themed legend. It's perfectly viable to give Rev a Rit type legend and also give Necro et. all other things as well. It baffles me the conversation has to constantly be about "only one or the other" or "rev just couldn't/shouldn't have a rit legend ever" when there are other options > > > > > > > > > > That's just the thing. There are other options. If you think Togo or Razah are significant enough and distinctive enough to count, there are _tons_ of other options for revenant legends. And how many more expansions do we really, realistically, expect to come? > > > > Kalla already brings the spirits, keeping in mind that when it was made, they were still uncertain that the story would ever go to Cantha, so we got a ritualist-esque legend (at least in terms of mechanics) then instead of waiting for a return to Cantha that might never come. Never is a long time, but a second ritualist-esque elite specialisation in a row is wasting the opportunity for revenant to do something that _isn't_ copying a GW1 profession. > > > > Remember, other professions, ritualist included, need to remain within the bounds of mortal magic. Ritualist is, ultimately, mortal magic. Revenant is ArenaNet's opportunity to pull out the really crazy stuff that can't fit anywhere else. What other profession would be able to generate a mini-Jade Wind, or a perform a short-term Rite of the Great Dwarf, or embody the six aspects of Glint's lair? Okay, an elementalist might be able to temporarily turn their allies to stone, but echoes of this sort of magic would normally be well outside what you'd find in a profession. Conversely, what other profession could incorporate a bit of ritualist magic into their teachings? _All of them._ > > > > Renegade is already a pretty big nod to the thing that most people _primarily_ associate with ritualists. Anything else... could probably be better done on another profession, leaving room for revenant to get something which would _only_ work on revenant. > > That assumes that Anet will actually try to explore more of those avenues though. And after Kalla I have no idea what they'll pick for Legend #3. While Togo/Razah/other are one of my top choices, I'd much rather a Vizier Khilbron (my top choice and would fit into what you're talking about), but I doubt Anet will pick that. My bet is on something obscure that fills weird criteria again like Kalla honestly Personally, I prefer to be optimistic about these things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Particularly keeping in mind that Kalla isn't Elonian and there's no reason to think that the next legend will be Canthan - it _could_ be, but they've got the entire history of the setting to draw from. Which, yes, could include characters we don't currently know very well, since not all of Tyrian history happened in-game.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > ^ Rule of cool. On the same rule of cool Pistol/Sword, sword/pistol, and pistol/warhorn are all so much cooler than staff or scepter/any. > > > > Rule of cool, by nature, is subjective, especially when we're talking about weapons without considering their actual skills. There is potential for a staff or even scepter for warrior that others might find cool even if you don't. > > > > Mind you, I can definitely see room for an engineer-light elite specialisation for warrior - might finally pin down what Canach is, even. But it's not the only thing that could possibly work. > If you look at Canache's skill loadout it mirrors a warrior with Shield Mastery and Runes of the Guardian equipped. He even has an Endure Pain like ability and a superior Shield Bash. Bombs can be purchased by anyone in PvE to use. 100% certain he is a Warrior using PvE available consumables. But yeah if Warrior got a pistol/pistol engineer-esc e-spec Canache would definitely be the NPC to showcase it. Canach's exact skill loadout varies depends on the instance. In Hearts and Minds, for instance, corrupted Canach mostly throws grenades, and regular Canach's shield behaves more like a Guardian's, or maybe an Engineer with a larger-than-normal magnetic bubble, than a Warrior's. Warrior is probably still closest to him, but I don't think current Warrior really fully reflects him - he's more of a warrior/engineer cross. Holosmith probably comes closest out of what's currently available, but there's a lot of things that holosmith does that Canach doesn't. A warrior elite specialisation with explosive-related utility skills would probably be a fairly close fit.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > Engineer: Focus (I know some people think/want either a main hand or a 2H weapon but I think even an off hand will be manageable) > > About the engineer focus: It is not managable as long as Riot refuses to add more mainhand weapons to core engineer. Giving us an offhand weapon means it will literally just have 1 possible weapon combination: pistol/focus in this case. Which would be just terrible, tbh, especially since mainhand pistol pretty much sucks.... Largely agreed, although I don't think engineer pistol mainhand is THAT bad. It is a good reason not to give an engineer elite specialistion an ofhand without an accompanying mainhand, though. > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > ^ Rule of cool. On the same rule of cool Pistol/Sword, sword/pistol, and pistol/warhorn are all so much cooler than staff or scepter/any. Rule of cool, by nature, is subjective, especially when we're talking about weapons without considering their actual skills. There is potential for a staff or even scepter for warrior that others might find cool even if you don't. Mind you, I can definitely see room for an engineer-light elite specialisation for warrior - might finally pin down what Canach is, even. But it's not the only thing that could possibly work. > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > It would be dual wielded. So 5 more skills not 3 or 2. > It doesn't have to and Warrior should **not** get two weapons again. > Warriors already had more weapons than other professions baseline and now got three weapons via elite specializations when everything else only got two. > Giving them another two would be quite unfair. I'm not sure this really follows? 'Having lots of weapon options' was always supposed to be one of the strengths of warrior, and considering that their three involves two offhands, I'm not convinced that they've actually came out better off from elite specialisation weapons than professions that got two autoattack-capable weapons. > > Rule of cool. On the same rule of cool Pistol/Sword, sword/pistol, and pistol/warhorn are all so much cooler than staff or scepter/any. > This is just _your opinion_ though. > To me, a Warrior using a Pistol would look even more stupid than a neon-green Daredevil wielding Kasmeer's Staff. Rytlock uses a pistol in the early dungeons. I think there is a valid point to be made that, in a world where warriors have already progressed to using gunpowder weapons, they wouldn't hold back from using pistols. They'd be useful ranged sidearms that are more convenient than a full-sized handgun or bow. What I think could be interesting, actually, is for warrior to have pistols that are explicitly _not_ designed to work together. Offhand pistol could have skills that are intended to synergise best with a melee weapon, such as a cripple that could help with gap closing, and a pistol-whip or conk-the-enemy-with-the-handle style _melee_ CC. The mainhand pistol could then be a fairly typical ranged MH weapon, but one that potentially synergises better with shield for defence or warhorn for support, or potentially even an offhand melee weapon, than offhand pistol.

Jormag was showing pretty clear signs of being Not Really Our Friend to anyone who's had experience with abusive relationships (noting that this does not need to mean abusive "romantic" relationships). Regarding Cantha - the DSD connection is possible, but I've generally thought the link might simply be "we need more dragons to replace the Elder Dragons, Cantha has/had dragons that are friendly to mortals.

Well, the question was about sylvari that were born _precisely_ on the transition time. The answer, though, might well be that such a thing is actually impossible, or so close to impossible that in practice it never happens. The odds of any sylvari being born _exactly_ on the Planck time that the transition occurs is so small that it probably hasn't happened yet. So there is one, precise, 1x10^-44 second instant at which any sylvari born before that instant is the cycle before, and any born after is, well, the cycle after. That said, it's also possible that the boundaries of the cycles are somewhat arbitrary, and the sylvari born at 5:58 might have more in common with the sylvari born at 6:02 than the sylvari born just after midnight, despite which cycles they're technically part of. It's also possible that the different personalities associated with the cycles are just trends, maybe even purely social constructs, and being part of a given cycle has little or no direct effect on how a sylvari will actually turn out. (Except that being a particular cycle means that they're likely to have members of that cycle as their mentors, which is likely to push them towards the personalities of their associated Firstborn as a result of nurture rather than nature.)

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > Heck, in a Canthan-themed expansion, there might be multiple elite specialisations based around bringing a bit of ritualism into existing professions. We've had fire magic warrior and antimagic warrior... what about a spirit warrior infusing spirits into their weapons and those of their allies? Why not? It'd be an interesting way to make a support warrior that isn't just about planting a banner or two or resorting to W/Mo themes (which is the guardian's playspace, especially support firebrands). Or a mesmer whose phantasms are actual ghosts? That could have some legs - I'm not sure just which aspect of the ritualist it would actually borrow, but at this point I'm largely brainstorming. Point is, there are more imaginative things that can be done with ritualist themes than just piling them onto revenant... and MUCH more imaginative things that can be done with the revenant rather than pushing it into the corner of being a refuge for disenfranchised ritualist players. > > I mean this is what will most likely happen. However, should be noted that spreading out Ritualist themes across multiple professions SHOULDN'T preclude Rev from being able to get a "Master Togo/Razah/other" ritualist themed legend. It's perfectly viable to give Rev a Rit type legend and also give Necro et. all other things as well. It baffles me the conversation has to constantly be about "only one or the other" or "rev just couldn't/shouldn't have a rit legend ever" when there are other options > > That's just the thing. There are other options. If you think Togo or Razah are significant enough and distinctive enough to count, there are _tons_ of other options for revenant legends. And how many more expansions do we really, realistically, expect to come? Kalla already brings the spirits, keeping in mind that when it was made, they were still uncertain that the story would ever go to Cantha, so we got a ritualist-esque legend (at least in terms of mechanics) then instead of waiting for a return to Cantha that might never come. Never is a long time, but a second ritualist-esque elite specialisation in a row is wasting the opportunity for revenant to do something that _isn't_ copying a GW1 profession. Remember, other professions, ritualist included, need to remain within the bounds of mortal magic. Ritualist is, ultimately, mortal magic. Revenant is ArenaNet's opportunity to pull out the really crazy stuff that can't fit anywhere else. What other profession would be able to generate a mini-Jade Wind, or a perform a short-term Rite of the Great Dwarf, or embody the six aspects of Glint's lair? Okay, an elementalist might be able to temporarily turn their allies to stone, but echoes of this sort of magic would normally be well outside what you'd find in a profession. Conversely, what other profession could incorporate a bit of ritualist magic into their teachings? _All of them._ Renegade is already a pretty big nod to the thing that most people _primarily_ associate with ritualists. Anything else... could probably be better done on another profession, leaving room for revenant to get something which would _only_ work on revenant.

> @"Smoosh.2718" said: > (Please see the torch, seriously... why even bother using that weapon?) Because it's the recommended offhand counterpart for sword in just about every currently recommended condi build for PvE, including raids? The quality of a weapon tends to depend more on how well it's implemented than what it actually is. Half the Guardian subforum was demanding longbow before HoT... now it's barely used anywhere. Meanwhile, the mesmer forum groaned at chronomancer shield, and they're kind of justified with what it's become _now,_ but it was meta-defining for a couple of modes until it got nerfed.

I _think_ the idea with Chaotic Transference might be that it's intended to be used with boon tank mesmers? I am inclined to agree - linking it to a different attribute probably would make it more useful overall. Would probably need to cut the conversion rate if it's linked to an attribute that has a base value above zero, though.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > Okay, so you don't actually want Ritualist. > This, again, is **your opinion.** > You don't get to decide what Ritualist means to others. > Just because you think it doesn't feel like Ritualist, doesn't have to mean anything on how others feels. > > It may not feel like Ritualist to you, but Renegade doesn't feel like one to me either. Then I think the same sentiment right back at you - you don't get to decide what Revenant means to others. Revenant was never supposed to be a Ritualist stand-in, even less than Guardian is a Monk stand-in. It's its own thing, and deserves to be treated as such rather than getting one "let's shoehorn ritualist playstyles into revenant" elite specialisation after another. We know which profession was supposed to be the 'successor' to ritualist. It's engineer. Ranged-oriented, stationary summons, has a mechanic that replaces its weapons to change its capabilities (urns reinterpreted into GW2 mechanics), and has mechanics to heal and buff allies. ArenaNet has been pretty upfront - we got ritualist because they wanted an engineer playstyle in GW1 and the setting wasn't technologically advanced enough for it, and now they've advanced the technology enough to bring in actual engineers. Sucks for people who really loved the theme of ritualist, but... that theme is 'works with spirits of the dead'. Necromancer can easily absorb that theme. In GW2, it already HAS been, both in mechanics and fluff (and in GW1, N/Rt and Rt/N were both popular combinations). And really, the playstyle you're talking about is essentially "buff yourself and go into melee with a squishy, high-risk-high-reward build". Or maybe you're ameliorating that risk by taking defensive skills and relying on high-damage autoattacks for damage - I don't know the specifics of your build. Either way, I don't really see this being something that isn't already offered. And I don't really see much value in a legend stuffed with weapon spells, urns, or even urns and weapon spells (and thus far, neither of you have actually given any mechanics of how they'd work apart from a general 'melee ritualist' theme). And even if they did give it to you... like Kalla, it would be one, specific, skillbar. Load up whichever legend they decide is relevant, be it Togo (who wasn't a Spirit's Strength melee rit, btw) or anyone else, and that's your one set of utilities, which is being combined with whatever core legend it gets combined with. How do you know that's going to please you? Maybe their interpretation will result in a playstyle you don't actually like. Or maybe it will be exactly what you want, but the _other_ guy who wanted a ranged Channeling ritualist is still going to be disappointed, and now the precedent has been set for two Ritualist-standin elite specialisations in a row, they're going to be asking for a third to get what THEY want. Revenant offers so much more. The theme of drawing from powerful characters who transcend normal professions, and who might not even be humanoid, allows for the usage of unique themes that just don't fit into other professions, while several professions (necromancer, guardian, and ranger just off the top of my head) already share themes with ritualist. I'm much more interested in the potential to come up with something weird and unique out of Zhu Hanuku or Svanir than just copying Ritualist over and over again. > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > > Seriously, renegade was the closest to ritualist revenant is ever likely to get. > > > This again, like the original point I quoted, is **your own, personal opinion.** > > > It is **far** from being a fact. > > > > > > As I pointed out, _other people_ have seen, used and felt Ritualist in entirely different ways. > > > It is very well possible to emulate R/A, R/D and R/W melee-focussed Ritualists with Weapon Spells, which would function as temporary, unique personal buffs, like they were in GW1. They wouldn't need to function like Kits or Conjures at all. > > > Urns might be a stretch, but they could function as F-skills, like Firebrand's tomes. > > > _To you,_ these play styles might not feel to what Ritualists feels _in your opinion,_ but for _others_ these styles would end up feeling significantly closer to Ritualist than Renegade could ever get. > > > > > > I personally enjoyed my melee Ritualists with 3-4 Weapon skills, and multiple Weapon Spells and much as I enjoyed my pure Caster and Healer Ritualists. > > > > > > > > > > Okay, so you don't actually want Ritualist. You want one of those Rt/(Melee Profession) builds that behave like a (Melee Profession)/Rt, but trade the higher base armour of the melee profession for more damage through Spirit's Strength. Except that you still have the higher armour because revenant is a heavy armour profession. > > > > In which case, I think it's _guaranteed_ that the collective "you" would keep complaining, because _other_ people who have been demanding that revenant be turned into ritualist definitely _are_ thinking of a spellcaster-type ritualist. > > > > I still don't think revenant is the right core profession for that sort of thing, because, again, of how it works. Normal operation for revenant to get 'short term unique buffs' is through upkeep skills. Jalis essentially summons a trio of guardian-style spirit weapons, but apparently they don't count. Shiro has an upkeep that [increases damage](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brutal_Weapon), and used to increase [attack rate](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weapon_of_Aggression). Devastation has a set of traits which build up stack that provide [lifesteal](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nightmare_Weapon). So what exactly are you expecting that isn't the sort of thing revenant already gets through the regular legends? A right-hand side of the bar full of venom-type skills? I think revenant can do better than that... and I think any such approach would still work better on a regular profession that _can_ choose to have just one or two rather than committing to a whole half-bar of them. > > > > Revenant has more potential than that. > > I tend to agree with Fueki there. You're narrowing your view of the GW ritualist to spirits and that's the issue he/she point out. > > For me, the revenant is already a ritualist. > > Each legend is an urn/ash/item spell specialized into a certain gameplay. Weapon spells have been replaced by the "rigid" set of common boons just like the countless boons in GW were themselves reduced to this rigid set. However, I can also see the shadow of the weapon spells in _facet of nature/true nature_, _Heroic command/order from above_ and even _ancient echo/spirit boon/song of the mist_. It's not wrong to also say that both Kalla and Ventari already express the "spirit gameplay" of the ritualist. > > Personally, as someone that enjoyed playing ritualist I'd like to see either more focus on the "ashes" (through a transformation skill on F2) or more focus on the "lightning spellcaster" aspect of the ritualist being expressed into the next e-spec (and none of those aspect should really need to deal with "spirits"). First, for me, revenant is absolutely NOT a ritualist. It's its own thing. Yes, it has a similar "power source" - but the way it interacts with the power source, the specific spirits it goes after, and the way it uses them are quite different. It's actually closer to a dervish, except instead of avatars of the gods, it invokes playstyle-defining 'legends' that perform a similar role but do not rely on the character following a specific religion. Which was, incidentally, one of the main requests on the forums before HoT released: a replacement for dervish which, instead of channeling the power of the gods (a no-no for Guild Wars 2's multiple races) it employed a faith-agnostic method of channeling a single powerful spirit through their body instead (in contrast to ritualists, which usually invoked multiple weaker spirits, and kept them bound to external objects or locations rather than to their own body). Which is pretty much exactly what we got. It's like saying that guardians are the same as paragons - yes, they have a common power source, and there's the PvP title, but I don't see guardians using chants or echoes. Second, and more importantly, I think you're missing the main point of my argument. The _main_ point is that ritualist was a profession that was built around having a high degree of customisation. You had the capability to build offensive, defensive, or strike a balance between the two. You could use spirits. You could use an urn or two (depending on how maintainable they were, and whether any of the urns are of the type you want to drop early). You could use weapon spells. You had direct spells, both aggressive and supportive, which could be used to synergise with spirits, weapon spells, and/or urns, or you could just pick out skills that don't rely on such synergies. You could focus hard on one or two of these aspects, or mix and match between them. Overall, ritualist probably offered the widest range of meaningful customisation of all the GW1 professions. That's _not_ what you're going to get with revenant. Revenant is, fundamentally speaking, 4 basic core builds and one per elite specialisation, with your full build being a combination of two of those, and your weapons and traits often being largely determined by what works with those. You don't get to pick and choose between different utility skills and find the set that works for you - you get what your legend gives you, and you work with that. Sure, there's a bit of extra customisation with traits and gear, but basically, you're trying to take the profession which had the most meaningful opportunities for customisation in GW1 and map it on the GW2 profession that has the _least._ For the manner in which revenant is actually envisioned, this works well. You're trying to emulate a single legendary figure. While doing so, your build is based on _their_ build. The energy system means you get to choose which _parts_ of their build you actually focus on, but you're using the build of a specific, historical figure. As a means of emulating an entire profession which offered a wide range of choice, though, it's pretty bad. So Fueki wants a melee ritualist based off the Spirit's Strength playstyle. You're talking about a focus on the "lightning spellcaster" aspect or the urns aspect. Okay, let's say they combine urns and the lightning spellcaster aspect... that's two elite specialisations and two legends there, plus Kalla. Maybe you two are happy, because your specific visions of the Ritualist have been filled... but what about the guy who's favourite Ritualist build involved combining a few offensive spirits with channeling, and maybe with a spirit weapon in there? Denied, because now they're all in three separate elite specialisations. Can't mix and match, it's either all spirits, all urns and Mists lightning, or all weapon spells. And when people are talking about Togo as a possible legend... look at his build in the mission pack again. It's offensive spirits, a few attack spells including a powerful AoE, and a heal. Swap around a few graphics, and it's basically Kalla shortbow. Fueki says I don't get to claim what ritualist means to others... but neither does Fueki. If we're looking at an elite specialisation to cover every possible interpretation of ritualist, we'll still be here when the servers close, and revenant's true potential will be wasted. Now, bringing in their mechanics into other professions isn't ideal either, but at least it _does_ allow for a bit of that mixing and matching. Core necromancer, for instance, offers minions, skills to support your allies, and even a Flesh-Of-My-Flesh-style sacrifice-health-to-revive-an-ally signet. Toss, say, urns as a skill group on them, give them a Channeling-themed weapon, and you're not going to cover every possible ritualist build, but through combining with core necromancer skills you'll likely get a greater range than a revenant elite specialisation would, with an inbuilt ghostly theme. Throw in a melee urn, and you might even approximate the Spirit's Strength melee rit with core necromancer dagger. It's not perfect, but it would probably allow for a much greater range of ritualist-inspired builds then you'd get from a single revenant legend. Or maybe that could come on another profession - Ranger, maybe, and the only reason I haven't mentioned guardian is that if urns work the way I envisage, they'd be a bit redundant after firebrand tomes. Even if they're presented as utilities rather than virtues, I don't think the playerbase is ready for another guardian elite specialisation which gives them a bucketload of skills in one build. Heck, in a Canthan-themed expansion, there might be multiple elite specialisations based around bringing a bit of ritualism into existing professions. We've had fire magic warrior and antimagic warrior... what about a spirit warrior infusing spirits into their weapons and those of their allies? Why not? It'd be an interesting way to make a support warrior that isn't just about planting a banner or two or resorting to W/Mo themes (which is the guardian's playspace, especially support firebrands). Or a mesmer whose phantasms are actual ghosts? That could have some legs - I'm not sure just which aspect of the ritualist it would actually borrow, but at this point I'm largely brainstorming. Point is, there are more imaginative things that can be done with ritualist themes than just piling them onto revenant... and MUCH more imaginative things that can be done with the revenant rather than pushing it into the corner of being a refuge for disenfranchised ritualist players.

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said: > **Protected Phantasms:** one instance of aegis is pretty garbage no matter how you look at it, it's similar to Blood Bank in that it's a wasted trait if phantasms are not being attacked, and has little/situational effect even if they are. > > This trait should make phantasms inherently and significantly tankier so that it doesnt just die to AoE/cleave, whether that be a massive HP boost, straight up dmg% reduction, whatever... it should technically allow a phantasm to run into a blob, do its thing and turn into that clone. Again, you can slap boons on to the phantasm just to interact with PoM. Protection would probably make more sense, although, to be fair, aegis does ensure that the phantasm will always survive at least _one_ hit no matter how powerful that hit is.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > Seriously, renegade was the closest to ritualist revenant is ever likely to get. > This again, like the original point I quoted, is **your own, personal opinion.** > It is **far** from being a fact. > > As I pointed out, _other people_ have seen, used and felt Ritualist in entirely different ways. > It is very well possible to emulate R/A, R/D and R/W melee-focussed Ritualists with Weapon Spells, which would function as temporary, unique personal buffs, like they were in GW1. They wouldn't need to function like Kits or Conjures at all. > Urns might be a stretch, but they could function as F-skills, like Firebrand's tomes. > _To you,_ these play styles might not feel to what Ritualists feels _in your opinion,_ but for _others_ these styles would end up feeling significantly closer to Ritualist than Renegade could ever get. > > I personally enjoyed my melee Ritualists with 3-4 Weapon skills, and multiple Weapon Spells and much as I enjoyed my pure Caster and Healer Ritualists. > > Okay, so you don't actually want Ritualist. You want one of those Rt/(Melee Profession) builds that behave like a (Melee Profession)/Rt, but trade the higher base armour of the melee profession for more damage through Spirit's Strength. Except that you still have the higher armour because revenant is a heavy armour profession. In which case, I think it's _guaranteed_ that the collective "you" would keep complaining, because _other_ people who have been demanding that revenant be turned into ritualist definitely _are_ thinking of a spellcaster-type ritualist. I still don't think revenant is the right core profession for that sort of thing, because, again, of how it works. Normal operation for revenant to get 'short term unique buffs' is through upkeep skills. Jalis essentially summons a trio of guardian-style spirit weapons, but apparently they don't count. Shiro has an upkeep that [increases damage](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brutal_Weapon), and used to increase [attack rate](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weapon_of_Aggression). Devastation has a set of traits which build up stack that provide [lifesteal](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nightmare_Weapon). So what exactly are you expecting that isn't the sort of thing revenant already gets through the regular legends? A right-hand side of the bar full of venom-type skills? I think revenant can do better than that... and I think any such approach would still work better on a regular profession that _can_ choose to have just one or two rather than committing to a whole half-bar of them. Revenant has more potential than that.

Yeah, in the case of revenant and engineer, it's because the elite specialisation weapons are filling gaps that should never have been left open in the core profession to begin with. One could argue that mirage axe is a similar principle... albeit not to the same extent as "has a melee weapon at all" or "has a ranged weapon that isn't complete garbage". Scepter and staff do fairly good jobs as condi weapons for mesmer, they just can't pile on the damage quite as hard as a DPS-dedicated melee weapon. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if necromancer got a melee condi weapon.

> @"Svennis.3852" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility. > > > > When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still _reasonably_ close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not _consciously_ thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them. > > I wish we could actually witness their dynamic. They have barely been in the same room together since season 3, years ago. I honestly never noticed any turbulence in their relationship, but people mention they’ve been on the rocks for a while. My memory isn’t the best when it comes to the test of time, though. > > If they’re going to break up or stay together, I would like to actually see the development there. Personally, I’d like them to thrive as a couple. I am tentatively expecting some relationship drama in EoDs with Marjory and Kasmeer featuring as prominent companions for that expansion. Kasmeer as a diplomatic representative of Kryta, and Marjory coming along to explore her ancestral homeland/act as a potential cultural lens for us. I imagine Kasmeer would be more of a secondary or tertiary character in EoDs working as a diplomat in the background but popping up for relevant scenes with Marjory. They’re long overdue for content/development as a couple one way or another. Agreed, especially since it's starting to feel a bit like Rytlock and Logan still disliking one another in season 1 despite having resolved their differences in the release storyline, because ArenaNet didn't want to commit to season 1 happening after the death of Zhaitan. It felt like they were supposed to have reconciled at the end of PoF, and then they spent most of season 4 together (but off-screen). Now, they're apparently having problems again. Why? Did some other argument brew up offscreen? Because if they're still having difficulties over something that happened over three years ago now, I'm not convinced that they're _ever_ going to recover.

A lot of people who actually put effort in making revenant work would disagree with you there. On all points. The only elite specialisation skill I don't see getting much use is Razorclaw, which is barely worthwhile even in the most ideal conditions and a waste of space on the bar otherwise. The energy mechanic does imply that you're not supposed to use all of them, but here's the question I don't think any of you people have answered: How the _flying kitten_ do you SEE urns and weapon spells working? Because a bar full of kits and conjures on a profession that also has a different legend to swap to and regular weaponswap? It's going to be a little bit ridiculous. Just a little bit. Not even worth mentioning, really. We're only talking about a bar that will have 40 skills total on it, before we even get to the function-key skills. No biggie. It's also _not_ how Ritualist ever used those skill types. Urns were usually a matter of picking the ONE that fit with your build. I mean, I guess you could theoretically do that with a hypothetical urn legend too, but in the meantime the rest of the slots are being wasted, while the existing legends have skills that are at least in _principle_ designed to work together even if they compete for energy. Weapon spells were, again, usually a matter of picking the one, _maybe_ two, that fit with your team build, because they didn't stack with one another. You shouldn't be trying to replicate Ritualist on Revenant mechanics. Revenant doesn't work that way. You should be trying to replicate Ritualist on profession that has a normal usage of utility skills, because that's how _Ritualist_ worked. Ritualist, when not going full spirit spammer, was about putting together a custom build from a variety of skill types, not simply having one set of skills you get as a package. That's how _revenant_ works. Seriously, renegade was the closest to ritualist revenant is ever likely to get. I'm fairly confident in predicting that if you did get a Togo legend or whatever, you won't be happy with the result and will be back next expansion (if there is one) demanding a _third_ try and revenant's true potential to shine on its own will be squandered. There are so many beings of legend, who _aren't_ ritualists, who don't fit nicely into _any_ profession, that revenant could be drawing inspiration from. Want a ritualist substitute? Let's look at necromancer. Already has a death-related theme. Already has _spectral_ themes, in fact. Minion bombing was something that was done with Rt/Ns, so that playstyle will persist, and Flesh Wurm is already a kind of turret similar to old ritualists. Maybe you could have a special graphical effect where all the minions turn ghostly (something we see in a few areas of the game, like some of Draithor's minions IIRC). Life Force could be used to summon a spirit that uses Life Force as health. Mainhand or 2-handed weapon that has attacks with a Channeling theme. Utility skills could be urns, which could bring a variety of skills, including, potentially, spirits and a GW2 equivalent of weapon spells for allies. You could have a restoration urn for healing, a communing urn for protection, a channeling urn for REALLY calling down the channeling magic damage, and still have space for three more.to spread out the options... while still having the option to pick out other utilities that fit the theme like minions and spectral skills rather than being forced to take urns that you're not going to use. Doesn't that sound better than some faux 'ritualist' that is just one set of skills and a weapon, take it or leave it, which spends half its time in a legend which is either Ventari or something that is distinctly Not Even A Little Bit Ritualist-Like? People really, _really_ need to stop reducing Revenants to fake Ritualists.

I think the logic behind the PoM traits, and some of the 'misplaced' traits, is to try to set up a situation like guardian has where there are so many synergies _between_ traitlines that you always have one more traitline that you'd really like to set up just one more synergy, to the point where it's possible for the elite specialisation to be the traitline that gets left out to make room for a third core traitline. Problem is, they largely just haven't made the traits good enough to achieve that. The big difference, I think, is that guardian doesn't really have any 'dud' slots in its core traitlines - cases where you have three major traits where it's often a case of picking the best of a bad lot. Closest is probably Virtues adept tier, where in a typical solo PvE environment, none of the choices are all that good unless you're using Consecrations. (Honor Adept isn't that great either, but hey, a symbol is a symbol, especially when combined with symbol traits.) Mesmer, however, has a few of these. Duelling Master, if you're not using a sword and not expecting to face a lot of projectiles. Chaos Master if you're not using staff. Inspiration Adept. Often these slots have traits which can be very useful for specific circumstances, but mesmer probably could do with a pass to make sure that there are some more traits that are useful in more general conditions rather than requiring specific circumstances or build options to shine. And, yeah, as much as it may seem to be contradicting the above observation, let's have a glamour trait back. Maybe they could even classify Ether Feast as a glamour skill, albeit one that only affects the caster.

Channeling magic is just that, though: Direct damage attack spells. A channeling build basically let you build a Ritualist to behave like an air elementalist. Combine with Restoration, and you were able to essentially mimic an Ele/Mo without being penalised for the lack of Divine Favour. And even then, it was usually advantageous to have, at the very least, a cheap spirit that would set off conditional effects. As you pointed out yourself, Togo _did_ have a couple of spirit skills - in fact, being able to bring in a total of 4 spirits made him a pretty effective spirit spammer in the mission pack until Signet of Spirits got redesigned to have a similar effect. _Every_ profession, in GW2, has damage-dealing capability. Orb of Wrath was described in Sea of Sorrows as a ball of lightning around the same time as Guardian was said to be a mix of monk, ritualist, and Elonian protective magic - the most likely source out of that lot for guardian to get something lightning-esque is Channeling magic. A lot of necromancer skills have a distinct spectral theme, which in GW1 would have mostly been in the ritualist's domain rather than the necromancer's. Channeling builds weren't really a new playstyle - they were a way to get a DPS spellcaster playstyle out of Ritualist. Spirit weapons were basically enchantments which traded being unremovable for only being able to have one at a time. Urns were basically unremovable self-buffs that replaced your weapon. Neither really represented a playstyle in and of themselves - in fact, their mechanics actively discouraged you from loading too many of them. They were, at most, unique tools that supported already existing playstyles. And in GW2 terms, they'd probably be interpreted as being something like kits, conjures, or venoms... and I _really_ don't think we need a legend that overloads on those. Spirits are what ritualists are associated with for good reason - they were the unique thing that ritualists brought to the table. Sure, you could make ritualist builds without using them, but it was clear that they were supposed to be the main focus. So, what'd happen if we had urns/spirit weapons as a revenant legend thing? Well, either you'd get overloaded with them or, more likely, you'd just have one or two on the bar. Which means that... _there are only one or two of them in the profession at all._ You don't have a set to choose from, you just automatically get the one you're assigned as part of the elite specialisation or as part of the legend, because, as I've been banging on about, That. Is. How. Revenant. Works. If urns or weapon spells were to make a comeback, don't you think it would be better for them to come as utilities for a regular profession, so you can have six of them, and choose which one you could use rather than just having the one you're assigned? I know _I_ would. Revenant core mechanics just don't allow them to replicate ritualist behaviour. Meanwhile, it has so much potential for bringing in themes that just wouldn't fit anywhere else, that would be wasted if continued attempts are made to make a bad copy of the ritualist on a base profession that just isn't suited for it. People _really_ need to stop reducing Revenants to pretend Ritualists.

Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility. When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still _reasonably_ close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not _consciously_ thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them.

I could see it, but there's really nothing that can't be explained by "sometimes people get lucky or unlucky streaks, especially when mostly playing solo, and this can push people well outside the bracket they should be in". Personally, I think that if you're soloqueueing, the rank points you gain or lose should be based on the average of your team versus the average of the enemy team, rather than the current system where it's based on your personal rating versus the average rating of the enemy team. The current system means you can get disproportionately punished for games where your team was at a disadvantage (if you were the highest-rating player of a team that had an average rating below the enemy team) and vice versa, which is probably a large part of how people can end up well outside their proper rating. I understand that there needs to be a system to prevent high-ranking players from farming rating points off weaker opponents, but maybe that could be something that starts kicking in at the higher ratings rather than among the people who normally sit somewhere in the middle.