Yasi.9065

Healing and personal dps are mutually exclusive in gw2, for good reasons, or we would all be unkillable killing machines.

Hybrid builds in gw2 offer usually boonsupport + X, with X being either healing (most common) or dps. You can add some utility at cost of dps or healing, tanking for example, or aegis share, etc.

Here's some advice for making boonsupport builds:

1. Decide what you want to do with your build: dps or heal.

2. Only bring boons that are needed in your teamcomp. Dont waste traits/utilities/skills on boons that another build can provide more comfortably/with less loss.

3. You dont have to provide 100% Fury uptime, all power dps builds bring some already for themselves... or dont need it due to crit traits. Last I checked, holo with 50% uptime was the most needy dps, though that was in raids, in fractals its more like 43%.

4. Always make sure to have enough boon duration to cover "your" boons. Its quite easy to calculate too... for example you have your quickness mantra that offers 2.5sec quickness on a 12sec recharge... with alacrity thats 12/1.25 = 9.6, make it 10 to be realistic recharge time. Its 2.5sec every 10sec -> 2.5/10 = 0.25 ergo 25% quickness uptime through mantra with alacrity on you. Your elite skill is 45/1.25 = 36sec cooldown and offers 8sec quickness -> 8/36 = 0.22 -> 22% + 25% = 47% quickness uptime, so you'd need another 53% uptime. 53/47 = 1.13 -> 113% boon duration, but its capped at 100%, so you need another source of quickness in form of traits or skills.

5. Dont neglect seemingly less useful boons like swiftness.

So, and because it has been a bit since I posted here... berserker firebrand + harrier renegade definitely works very well for more casual fractal cms+t4 clearing. Thanks to instability rework you can stack better now, so might from renegade is a nice addition to might from bannerwarrior. Compared to druid+chrono you get roughly 25-30k more dps out of it (firebrand dps + kalla elite + AP), with more healing/aegis/stability at the same time.

> @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > @"Kyranna.1730" said:

> > > @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > > > @"Vash.2386" said:

> > > > > @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > > That doesn't have anything to do with what i said.

> > >

> > > You may have invested both money, and time each time you have to carry it out - but you reap also rewards that a player is supposed to get once per day, a multitude of times. The reason you do it, is because it pays off big time.

> > >

> > >

> > If Anet, the publisher of the game, makes it possible to have, and specifically allows, multiple accounts and multiboxing, then I don't see how one person playing one account is how it's supposed to be. That's like telling someone no you can't get a second job to make more money because you're only supposed to have one job. Says who?

> >

> You are missing the point again.

>

> I am not telling you, that you shouldn't do it. I know very well, people will do anything within the laws(and many outside) to maximize their gain, that is just our nature. Moral irregardless. And i am not here to tell people what person they should be. Do you, and ill speak on how things relates to me.

>

> However, do you really think the devs created daily rewards and gatherings hoping that people would spend time logging in on different accounts to gain stuff in game rather than playing the actual game? And even if in the case that they made it legal hoping players would buy more accounts etc, it still does not take away from the fact that it reduces the value of everyone else's gains who just plays normally. But i honestly think it is just done because it would be impossible to justly prevent people from playing different accounts same computer etc, for example a family.

>

> There is no way you will convince me otherwise and i think i have said all i could say on the topic - i do accept that people will do it if it is possible, but i for one am not in favor of "using" the game terms that way. Just like MTX in a perfect world would be nice if was earned in game - but that will never be realistic. But anytime i get stuff earnable ingame i consider it just a nice bonus(expecting nothing), just as here i consider it a nice bonus if it is less attractive to multiaccount because it is a boost to my preferred playstyle(sticking to actually playing the game). That's all.

>

> As for your strawman - you can't just legally pay to create new government identities so you can reap multiple welfare bonuses and the like either. Your two job analogy is more like, if i wanna spend 10h farming i should get twice as much for that period as the one who spends 5h farming, which you do.

>

> Why do you think they keep imposing limits to for example chests per account in istan etc, so people can buy more alt accounts? Harh Harh.

>

> But don't worry, someone will write some code to circumvent this. I mean, i could even make something myself with autohotkey, so someone with proper knowledge will make something. It can be done, maybe it would be slightly more troublesome, but it can be done with 1 click.

You are taking this game WAY too seriously if you compare login rewards with welfare checks. This game is buy2play, multiple accounts are part of that. Live with it.

On topic:

Just removing a feature *ALWAYS* is a bad solution. And it wasnt even an "abused" function meant to do something differently. No. Those start arguments where **specifically** there to skip the launcher and directly log into character selection screen. With a long standing history even. Just removing them... Without forewarning. Without alternative. Anet, how did you EVER think that was a good idea?

Changing something like that after roughly a decade of offering it as a feature and then saying its because of security concerns... Im sorry... but that reeks of excuse.

Honestly, if someone gets so far as to access the shortcuts on your desktop he pretty surely has access to text files containing personal information and can install a keylogger. From a security standpoint, this change is so horribly pointless, its offending.

It would actually be WAY securer to offer a launcher that can store encrypted login information for multiple accounts.

This change is NOT about security. Its about anet wanting to cover their own asses and about forcing players to use the launcher. Everyone thinking otherwise, Im sorry, is getting duped.

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > So Anet is gonna refund my 20ish accounts now? Or buy me 20ish computers? What a horrible change. Anet. O M F G L O L.

>

> You can still multibox from the same machine. You have to manually disable the relevant Mutex (although I'm sure people have already written scripts to do that). The main problem is typing in the credentials.

Yes. I know. But guess what... the credentials are kinda the problem. Not the mutex.

This just exposes how bad and outdated gw2 launcher really is. No multi-account support. No character select. Cheap.

So Anet is gonna refund my 20ish accounts now? Or buy me 20ish computers? What a horrible change. Anet. O M F G L O L.

I just wish the fight timer in raids in general could be.... bigger... without having to increase size of the whole interface. But well....

Im pretty certain spiders and orbs together have a soft cap. So its not quite as rng. If you regularly kill spiders, then orbs are kinda easy, because theres enough up there spaced nicely. If you only kill spiders en masse then you get about 10-20sec later "mass spawn" of orbs, and only a handful of orbs the other times.

But thats just a subjective observation of a dhuum green2 kiter.

> @"zoomborg.9462" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

> > > >

> > > > Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

> > > >

> > > > You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

> > > >

> > > > It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

> > >

> > > On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

> > > Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

> > >

> > > Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

> > > Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

> > >

> > > As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

> > > - 1 Harrier renegade

> > > - 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

> > > - 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

> > > - 2 power DPS

> > >

> > > Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

> >

> > On NA the amount of times I have found a support rene in LFG in the past 2 months since I ask for healer and not specifically a druid is : A SINGLE TIME.

> >

> > It is truly a very niche spec so few people in NA play, I'd rather settle for a Harrier FB since the Harrier FB still serves as a useful healer alongside a chrono for alacrity with stability and aegis spam on top.

> >

> > Support renegade on its own provides....healing and Kalla (since if you don't find a quickbrand, you'll run a chrono anyways). But I'll take nearly perma stab for Skorvald, Artsariv, and MAMA any day over Kalla elite as it will in most realistic scenarios translate to far more DPS by allowing people to turret those hectic phases without getting pinballed around.

> >

> > I love my power chrono DPS above all, but if the team doesn't have a guardian of any kind I will always bring mine instead because I cannot stress how vital stability and aegis are for smooth burn phases, and renegade lacks that.

> >

> > And that's truly the problem, renegade is way more reliant on FB to be attractive to a comp than FB needs renegade to be attractive because guardian utility is crazy stupid.

>

> This is so true. Gearing a quickbrand, power or condi is ez af. On power u need maximum 25 bd which is ez to get and on condi u can just slot fb runes and your done. Even in healing a few minstrel/harrier piece is all u need then u can just fill the rest with magi. Fb is also extremely potent in open world, metas, dungeons, soloing stuff giving you more value out of the builds.

>

> Renegade on the other hand.....u have to gear a preposterous amount of diviner just for alacrity while already not having the best dps. And it can only be effective with a buddy as alacrity by itself doesnt give much value. Gearing all that just for fractals and nothing else is an investment a lot of people, including myself, arent willing to make.And u would also need healing gear with full concentration if a group wants to run a healer which means even more investment.

> Atm out of all the different supports i feel renegade is probably the weakest link as u have to sacrifice too many stats just for alacrity and u require a buddy for quickness + supplementary boons (most of these usually come from fb). Is it indeed very niche.

I cant fully agree. Yes, the gearing is a bit more difficult and the diviner variant is probably only gonna be meta for comps without heal.

But the harrier variant? In fractals you already gain 15% boon duration from the fractal potion conversion (150 AR, fractal mastery max, 5 stacks mobility potion). Add to that a concentration sigil, water runes (you really only need monk runes on rather exotic healing builds without salvation, for example devastation/invocation) and peppermint oil, and you are already at 57% boon duration. For ease of use, Id suggest going for 100%, so 43% left through concentration. Thats roughly trinkets + backpiece + weapons. So you could just go with clerics armor (power stat for elite). --> [build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQFAmnnNWMTyJvmRNlZzsoytZ4UZ3MIs8bmFNl6PIPymctJmiqodACgGA-jxRXQBi6CAkQlf76BAUPdAOUJ4RU/BA7PQKA/GsB-e)

Thats not unreasonable.

The thing about renegade, is that it really brings a lot of dps increase. Theres AP, ofc, which is pretty much on par with EA now. And Kalla Elite. You get about 10-25% kalla elite uptime overall in cms with a harrier renegade. On short burst phases its even more, because there its 100% uptime for the burst.

A chrono doesnt offer anything in that regard, it offers "only" additional utility. But what if you dont need that utility? You could force your bs to run tactics spellbreaker, still way more dps than replacing renegade with a alacrity chrono. And I mean, Im always saying "force", but in reality its not actually that bad. You cant really run GS anymore then, but its not as if you have to run special equip for PS. On spellbreaker you loose around what... 5k realistically, the "normal" pug BS probably way less. And everyone has to bring consumables for cc (Pirate's Leg for example). Its not the end of the world, and you gain a lot.

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> You'll lose less to take SpB than take trickery in thief or a power chrono over an other DPS or mines over bomb or grenade kit.

>

> You'll lose less to NOT take PS war (because it means runes and/or food/sigil) than to take Lasting Legacy over RR if you play harrier Ren with Salvation (because you don't need RR at all with Ventari) in fractals. I don't know how you test you ren but I can assure you you can maintain perma alacrity perma 25 mights, and Soulcleave and the healing skill one when you swap to kalla.

> If you play diviner with Invocation, yes, you can't pass over RR and you can't maintain 25 mights alone, or you sacrifice the perma alacrity for the mights. Still you have FB, may you have weaver, holo to cap the 25.

> Stop Making PS war/SpB a thing, it is NOT needed *edit, in a Ren Healer comp.

You are quite wrong there. The radius is the main problem, which is why you want to bring Righteous Rebel even for fractals. On might the radius is also quite small, so you'd have to stack really tight (240) for this to work even remotely. Thats something that doesnt work in fractals, be it due to fight mechanics or instabilities.

PS bannerwarrior (core) only has to switch out ONE trait, and bring elite warbanner. You bring Phalanx Strength instead of Powerful Synergy. If you notice might still being a problem due to instabs/mechanics, you can add dumplings et voila. 25 might with 600 radius.

Honestly, why wouldnt you at least run PS trait? And warbanner is free thanks to singularities.

I agree that spellbreaker looses around 5k dmg, but theres other solutions for boonremove that dont involve spellbreaker. Domi DT dps chrono is my current favourite. Holo with mines also only looses a bit dps on bosses with short phases. Or you just dont run ventari on renegade and bring mallyx for boss fights.

So, no... Im sorry. But PS will definitely become meta. Even if you dont agree, its the best solution for the missing around 15 might.

> @"Durante.7281" said:

> Im planning on making a heal herald specificly for PUG cm's+t4, but are wondering what type of gear im gonna get. this is for a comp with 2dps,1bs,1dps quickbrand and then the herald healer. From what i understand herald is able to give more boons then renegade?(not sure but comparing from snowcrows builds).

>

> **Should i go full Harrier or full Minstrel**

>

> Harrier is standard but since its for pugging (where its nice to have 1 dedicated heal) I doubt im going to do much dmg anyway. So I was thinking Minstrel would be better since it gives thoughness(7% convert to healingpower), and vit to be more tanky and with the Hardened Foundation trait + more base stat a LOT more healing power. Boon duration should still be an easy 100% inside fracs with the extra buffs.

>

> Edit: i just learned that Renegade will have better alec+might so the question stands: harrier or minstrel for PUG cm's+t4. Will the extra dps be worth the wipes you could have saved...

You should always go for as much power as possible on Renegade. The reason is that your Soulcleave Summit (Kalla Elite) scales with your power stat. Its one of the most neglected, but best dps increases. Even better than frost spirit for quite a lot of dps builds.

If you still want some tanky stats - which is a totally valid point as a healer on fractals - then you should rather go for clerics.

You need at least 80% boon duration, 100% is better if you also want to provide some might.

Soooooo... put these points together... here's how I go about calculating "normal" fractal builds. Lets say we want 100% boon duration for comfy playing. You get "some" from your fractal potion conversion.

Fractal mastery maxed, 5 stacks of mist mobility potion, 150 AR -> 150*0,3*5 = 225 concentration -> 225/15 = 15% boon duration.

Sigil of Concentration: 10% boon duration

Water runes: 25% boon duration

You get around 7% from peppermint oil

That leaves: 100-15-10-25-7 = 43% boon duration left to cover from stats. Thats 43*15 = 645 concentration.

Thats great... because amulet + 2x rings + 2x accessory + backpiece + weapon in harrier = 645 concentration. That leaves your armor for clerics.

Fun fact, 1315 toughness is enough to tank most bosses in raids. That staff3 block is really good and you will make some chronos / firebrands really happy.

You get a warhorn4 (ranger) animation (and sound!) that you can transfer to a nearby enemy for 4 seconds if you dodge, and after that the ravens etc spawn and you have to cleave them down. Once I realized that, Ive made my peace with that instability.

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > The problem(s) with FB+ Rev is who of the 2 should be healer ? I would say FB because he is a worse dps and better at healing and a lot more boons.

> > Until the news stats came there were no real alternative Rev became automatically a healer too( with harrier stats)

> >

> > Rev and chrono should run both diviner stats now . There are also the problem Rev is incredible raw to see in pve

> >

> > FB can work with both with chrono the down side is you need to change a mantra to might and the amount of fury is a bit low.

> >

> > A support rev on the other side can't really work with a druid you get an insane amount of might but no quickness

>

> FB is both the superior hybrid DPS (Quickbrand) as well as Healer/support (Harrier).

>

> Alacrigade is about ~23k DPS, Power Quickbrand is ~25k DPS and Condi Quickbrand ~29k DPS.

>

> But since FB is also the better Healer/Boon Support imo, it doesn't really matter.

> If you want a safer comp, run support FB and Alacrigade, if you want slightly more DPS, run support Renegade and Quickbrand.

>

> FB can run Sword, or preferably Axe for pulls/cc for perma Fury.

> Also, Support FB can solo Maintain 25 Might as well, so yea, sup FB also works well with a Chrono.

What people tend to forget is that kalla elite uptime is very important to determine the "real" dmg of div renegade. You can say in fractals 10% uptime are about 1k per player, thats a really rough estimation, so you get an idea of it. A harrier renegade usually has a higher kalla elite uptime if things run smoothly, a diviner renegade has better uptime when things go down the drain.

I contest btw that fb is the better healer. A harrier renegade can heal through agony. A fb cant. A power fb can still put out enough aegis to comfortably lazily ignore mechanics, a harrier renegade can bring ventari tablet projectile hate.

Might on fb is a lot like might on renegade. It looks nice on paper, but in reality, you have to sacrifice quite a bit to reach and then maintain those 25. And tbh, why even bother with it? Core bannerwarrior is meta. He already runs the traits for it. At the most you have to bring dumplings instead of the expensive food that shall not be named. Shifting might onto bannerwarrior also has the added benefit that you are totally flexible. You can run div or harrier renegade, paired with heal or berserker fb. You can run 2 healer, 1 healer or 0 healer, whatever you find first.

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> I know that my main problem is what I should write in the LFG when I search a group now ?^^

> something like : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Healer , Support , BS , DPS (I'm already in it as dps)

>

> The problem is there are some people who recently start to run necro as healer so this isn't really clear

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| Druid/FB , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now someone could think I'm looking for a quickness firebrand argha

>

> Next try : T4 dailies +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , Support , BS , DPS

>

> Now chrono and rev could be felt left out because I don't name call them

>

> Next try : T4 's +rec | P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev) , BS , DPS

>

> Now I need at least make pointer that I need a FB when I got a Rev

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec| P+F| (Heal : Druid/FB) , (Support: Chrono/Rev*) , BS , DPS

>

> So now I want to see how someone squeeze EXP or CM and KPs in without getting into the next row^^ (which I'm believe I'm already in testing after this)

>

> EDIT : okay way too long

>

> Next try : T4 's+rec|P+F|(H:Druid/FB),(S:Chrono/Rev*),BS,DPS ..works kinda

>

On t4s you just have to make sure you have might, protection, quickness, fury. Boon remove on days with boon instabilities. Cleave for fractals with lots of adds (cliffside, underground etc.). Dont overcomplicate things, its only t4 without CMs.

For t4+CMs, you have to be more specific. But ofc, you can search for fb, harrier renegade, bannerPS and boonremove (if necessary).

Apropos boonremove. On Vengeance instability you dont really need to bother with it atm, just pull adds nicely and they die before doing much harm.

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> You don't need PS with Ren. F2 gives you 15 mights (~20 sec or more, I don't remember) every 8sec with alacrity; FB can pre-buff mights too before engaging.

> Tactics ? Even you're all power berserker/diviner I don't know if it is worth the DPS sacrifice to play Empower Allies in 5man group *Unless you play war of course, and not SpB.

Thats where you are quite wrong. Energy constraints (and radius) make might buffing on renegade a farce. The shorter the fight, the less of a problem it is ofc. But I can tell you from experience that renegade might stack is very spotty and it drops to zero when you need it most... due to the renegade running out of energy and having to prioritize between alacrity, kalla elite and might. You'd have to drop AP for invigoration, which is quite a dps loss in fractals... not to mention you will still run out of energy.

Effectively its more like 10 might upkeep, and thats only when everything works out nicely. If you have to cc on renegade, then you are mostly down to around 8. If you have to heal a lot - which is rather normal in pug grps - then you are down to basically 0.

Core bannerwarrior is already meta, and for longer fights you can just bring dumplings and precast elite banner at singularity. Together with the might from firebrand (scepter) and **some** might from renegade you are at 25 without really loosing anything... this whole thing becomes an issue if you want to use spellbreaker for boon remove... and only then. But theres other options for that.

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> After that, IMO there is not "one" optimal comp.

> I mean of course, ren+fb+war+soulbeast+dps is strong. Support FB+war+3DPS is worth too. Chrono+War+3DPS still work good too.

> But with all the new instabilities and the new fractal I 've also seen good scourge actually doing there job : epidemic, boon removal etc, on contrary I saw more and more thiefs and weavers be OS in the first seconds because of mobs with 25 might fury quickness or 300%dmg and weaver/thief with-30%hp (=8k HP) or birds focusing them. I've also seen this week groups looking for 2 healers/support, like Druid + FB, and no joke it was better than 3 years of chrono+druid.

No, Im sorry. But Im not talking about t4 pug groups here. Im talking about a meta comp for t4+CMs that works with players put together from lfg. Your scourge "might" have done a good job, but I can tell you right away, even a holosmith can do the same and do more boss dps. In terms of aoe boon remove, domi dps chrono is unsurpassed and for single target mallyx on renegade is better than anything Ive seen.

And ofc fb is better. FB has instant casts and you "only" have to stack properly. No difficult rotation. No placing wells perfectly. No CS.

> @"leandrolimarm.1542" said:

> I've always enjoyed playing support in other games, but I've never played raids or fractals.

> Some guild friends told me that it would not be good to start raiding the druid because there would be a lot of mechanics the druid does that I could not do, and that somehow discouraged me from trying to raid, but you would like opinions, Is this a good idea, or were my friends right and should I try to go with a DPS?

If you want to start raiding on druid, make sure to always have a second healer in your squad to cover for any mistakes. A non-druid preferably, so you can focus on mechanics and might. Also watch raid guide videos (newest ones are the ones put up on youtube by mightyteapot) and dont forget to shatter your spirits when moving out of range of them.

When gearing your druid, you should aim for around 80% boon duration and 1k healing power. Exotic is fine. Monk runes are best in slot, but water runes work as well. Water sigil isnt set in stone, you can also bring a concentration sigil, but then you have to camp on staff more to fill up your avatar.

Have fun, druid in current meta is tons of fun... as long as you get to be the only one in your squad :)

/edit:

Be open about not having done a mechanic before (like pushing orbs on kc, golems on sh etc., you will see the special jobs in guide videos) but always offer to do them so you get training. At least on EU lfg squads are usually quite lenient with you, as long as you arent trying to hide anything or duck responsibilties. Well, not on mondays, but the rest of the week ;)

> @"reapex.8546" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > Hey,

> >

> > this thread only concerns comps with 2x boon support + 2x healer.

> >

> > **Harrier Renegade**

> >The chronos can remove WoR and bring Precog Well or mimic or DE or Feedback or whatever is best suited. And instead of having to search hours for that >elusive tank chrono you can also just let the Renegade tank while bringing in a quickbrand or healbrand for quickness and fury. Healbrand in particular is easy to >play as well, in contrast to chrono.

>

> Hi Yasi,

>

> 1) What does DE stand for in reference to Chrono?

> You mention it with a Harrier Renegade.

> 2) 10 Man Fury.

> FB Axe only supplies might to 5 people correct?

> I'm guessing one Chrono will use SOI on the fury they receive from the FB Healer then the 2nd chrono will use SOI to cover the other subgroup.

> Or did you have a different idea on how to apply 10 man fury, like Feel My Wraith?

> I also discovered Valor instead of Virtues can spam out fury. So, that's an alternative as well.

1. Illusionary Disenchanter (phantasm)

2. The thing about fury is, that you need to provide at the most 60% and thats if you have a diviners renegade. For all other builds its more like 40% overall or only cover 100% until boss reaches < 75% or only a starter fury to get them going. So for example any healer with 100% boon duration wouldnt even need to bring anything for fury for his subgrp, just picking up the discipline banner and using skill2 (and 3) regularly already does the trick. If you dont want to do that, then theres quite a lot of different possibilties, like elite shout on firebrand (depending on boonduration thats between 27-55%), or axe symbol (100%). Other builds like renegade healer or heal scourge have to resort to banner-shenanigans, but its honestly not a big problem. You usually have enough time for it - other than for example a chrono with its rather tight rotation to maximize dps.

3. Trading Virtues for Valor means you loose the passive heal from f2 tome, tome cooldown reduce, longer retal duration and condi remove on f2 activation. You gain an extra aegis when you block something. In my opinion absolutely not worth it, and put succinctly, also not necessary. On most bosses you want to bring an axe anyway because the pull is quite nice on adds, and just swapping to it when fury runs out already is enough... you dont have to camp axe all the time. Btw axe fury is currently bugged and doesnt pulse around the symbol, but rather around the fb. Probably gonna get adressed next balance patch in 2 months or so.

4. For might Id suggest bringing a druid anyway. So far druid is unsurpassed in that area. No other build can stack might as fast, as regularly and its on 10 people on top of that. Trying to get enough might together in squads without a druid is a bit of a nightmare. FB/Ren can do it with a core bannerwarrior running dumplings taking care of one grp and a harrier renegade with a diviners firebrand in the other grp. But thats something for statics, not really suited for lfg squads (yet?). That druid, btw, doesnt have to be heal... a viper condi druid is just as sufficient.

So far we havent had problems finding one. Most have no clue what to do yet, and it shows. But after some explanations its fine, its after all not that difficult. Power firebrands are more difficult to find, especially ones that realize they have to supply some might via scepter symbol, pull with GS5+Tome1 and have a reflect on tome3.

Honestly, considering how long I see people searching for chronos, its really better to go with fb+ren.

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> Fact is most people don't have support renegades since it's an incredibly niche build even in PvE, so the most realistic scenario is that Harrier FB will replace a druid and alongside the zerker/diviner chrono will have a group with perma quickness, alacrity, stability, and a ton of aegis.

>

> Druid is not in a great place imo as a healer and is easily replaced by a soulbeast.

>

> You would have soulbeast, chrono, harrier fb, bs war, then whatever DPS you want, usually a dragonhunter because break bars are totally busted for burst power specs.

>

> It's a complete carry comp and does the fractals in your average group much quicker.

On EU its way easier to find a harrier renegade and a berserker+pack runes firebrand than the reverse. Trying to force a chrono into that comp lowers its value a lot, you either replace kalla elite and more cc with SoI that you dont need in fractals, or blocks, superior dps and signet share with SoI that you dont need.

Might is something a boonchrono doesnt supply at all anymore, however, if bs has to provide all 25 mightstacks then he needs strength runes (yes, we tested this), lowering bs dps quite a bit.

Why exactly do you want to force a boonchrono in there? Because of pulls? FB GS5 + Tome1 skill3 work nicely, renegade can help out with axe5, but its not even necessary.

Or is it because of skips? Quite a lot skips a weaver can do as well. Or a daredevil. Or a power chrono

As for 1-healer pug t4+cms runs this is what we have had best results on:

- 1 Harrier renegade

- 1 Power Firebrand with Pack Runes

- 1 Power Bannerwarrior PS

- 2 power DPS

Boon remove is an issue, because if you force bannerwarrior to play a tactics spellbreaker build, thats quite a dps loss. However, theres several dps builds that you can run on boon-heavy instability days. Holosmith with mines, daredevil with trickery, power chrono. For "unproblematic" fractals with boons your renegade can just play mallyx instead of ventari. It reduces kalla uptime, but its an easy solution.

> @"Sweal.4659" said:

> So i've been pugging recently quite a lot since we lost few members in our full clear static group. And what i've found in pug scared me. Before last changes to chrono, pugging bosses was possible, finding good group was hard but you could find it after few tries. But these days, even the easiest of all encounters is wipefest with any group i join. Have pugs really became so bad or worse, did people that actually know how to raid left after last patch?

>

> Talking about both raids and fractals.

Fractals: my static hasnt had a fixed fifth for months now and I cant really say its decreased. Pugs were always hit and miss, and in fractals its just super obvious.

Raids: you'll see an immediate "skill increase" if you add a healfb or healscourge instead of a second druid. Not because people get better, but better boons and aegis enable dps players to be lazy and treat every boss as a dps golem. Sad truth is that most players that think of themselves as "good dps" were in reality just carried by chaos chronos. Chrono "carry" capabilities are back to old domi-insp chrono from about 1-2 years ago, with considerably less cc. On chaos chrono it was really difficult NOT to block/stabi stuff and give all boons, you had to essentially go afk to fail at chrono. Now you have to again time your stuff properly, be active, place your wells correctly etc.

What Im saying: chaos chrono was a build carrying bad players, even the chrono himself. For pugs thats quite a reality check. Best example for this is actually Qadim boss phase ;) No more perma stability means you have to watch your positioning now and dodge/hop the shockwave. Most lfg squads I join for qadim fail at that.

No, I tested this @"narcx.3570" . Its because rev doesnt bring many dmg modifiers and the stat difference between berserker and diviners is pretty small. Scholars brings highest dps in any combination I tried.

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> I think huge drawback is we sacrifice lot of DPS for only 1 boon permanent uptime. Because Core Rev is kinda boonless, all of them are for short period of time. So Is it worth? Only Pros I can see are: That boon is alacrity, Soulscleave Summit is kinda OP(and will be nerfed for sure), Staff have huge breakbardmg.

Exactly, though to use all those three things effectively, you have to play harrier heal renegade :( Diviners just doesnt bring enough to the table to be considered meta. Im not saying its not viable, my static runs with a diviner renegade. But its a niche build, that isnt (yet, hopefully) quite enough to be considered in speedclear raids.

Fractals no-healer comps only run it because its the better of only 2 alternatives.

And if you want the more pug friendly alternative, then harrier renegade is more effective, since you get higher soul cleave uptime, cc without dps loss and power firebrand has burst dmg.

It viable, yes, but.....

Diviners Alacrity Renegade suffers from several problems that make it really not that attractive, especially for speedclear raids. No burst, long phases of autoattacking because of energy problems on kalla. F4 cooldown is so badly timed that theres no comfortable rotation. Way too few dmg modifiers. Sword skills hit like a wet noodle. Alacrity upkeep is difficult because of energy costs and the fact that even with 100% boon duration - which is a HUGE stats loss for dps, no matter diviners gear, because of above mentioned missing dmg modifiers - you only get 2 seconds overlap.

At current balance, you'd want to bring a chrono with SoI to make diviners renegade more attractive. But then you can also just run 2x chrono, 1x druid. The whole point of diviners renegade becomes moot if you have to add a chrono for reliable 100% alacrity uptime.

Its not bad, but for speedclears its not good enough.

For casual raiding however, you want to bring a harrier variant or even cleric/givers mix for tanking. The dps from quickbrands is just better than from diviners renegade.

> @"You got that wrong.6582" said:

> I am recently getting back into GW2 after a bit of a hiatus, and I was wondering if the raids in this game are worth trying to find a party for. I'm still pretty new to the game (just trying to finish up my druid build) and was thinking of finding a group next week. Compared to both WoW and FF14, which are games I previously and currently raid on, what is the draw to GW2 raids? Just interesting fights and mechanics or something else? And which raid should I start with first? I was looking at Mythwright Gambit since it might be easier to find a group for it.

GW2 raiding experience is a mix of stunning graphics, interesting mechanics and the best combat system Ive ever had the pleasure to enjoy in an mmo, packed together in neat little encounters that make raiding possible without huge effort - timewise and skillwise.

Dont let the community fool you, raids in gw2 dont need an easy mode and they arent boring copy&paste.

To smooth your entry into raiding as a supporter, Id suggest for you to make a 2nd healer variant to druid. LFG squads love to run with 2 druids, but only because they are used to it, its actually quite inferior and makes raiding unnecessarily difficult (hence why said people also whine for an easy mode ;) ). So if you can always offer another healer if theres a druid already in the squad and your commander wants to run with 2 healers, you get way smoother runs.

Non druid healers also dont need ascended btw, exotic is fine. Just use brandspark trinkets, a cleric backpack with brandspark jewel, a harrier weaponset (can be bought for around 2g per weapon) with transference+concentration sigil, and either cleric (on renegade) or magi (healfb, tempest) armor with water runes. Healscourge I wouldnt suggest, not because its bad - it isnt ;) - but because its not suited for raid beginners. For healscourge to not troll your squad and for it to really shine, you have to really know every boss encounter to predict dmg/mechanics properly. Its a build that really shines in the hands of very experienced raiders, but is detrimental in the hands of an unexperienced one.

For skills make sure to have the option "effect LOD" in your graphics settings checked. This helps somewhat.

Disabling post processing and shaders helps with auras and such - which can be a real bother with all the infusions running around and some boon animations (alacrity most noticably).

Phew, Im so glad Im not the only one. I started to feel like a total freak because most instabilities are either fun to me or just dont bother me. And slippery slope is great! I did the cliffside fractal with it, and had such a fun time trying to climb those ramps :lol:

Honestly, if players would stop trying to emulate record kills and speedclear tactics for training or even weekly fullclears, anet would definitely NOT need to jump through any hoops to make raiding possible for more casual players.

Fact is, with the right comp, with correct builds and half an hour spent at the golem going through your rotation, raiding already *is* easy mode on most bosses.

However, if you try to raid without proper boons, with only 1-2 druids for heals, everyone totally focused on only their dps... then even normal mode MO becomes challenge mode, instead of the very easy and relaxed bosskill it can be.

In all my time spend in mmos, Ive never encountered a community like the one in gw2. Maybe anet is partially to blame for it, because they actually try to listen and respond to complaints. But this is just... Im baffled. Theres constantly someone trying to suggest solutions how ANET should fix problems the PLAYERS cause themselves, instead of players actually just LISTENING to raid veterans and solving the problem themselves.

Theres several comps floating around that work a hundred times better for training/casual clears than 2xdruid+2xchrono, and still, when I join a low/none LI squad I see nearly always that exact comp. Maybe... and thats a big maybe... sometimes I see a healscourge instead of a second druid. But thats it. Needless to say that boonuptime is always quite bad.

And here's the thing. **There already is an easy mode for raids in gw2.** Its called 100% boon uptime. How to achieve this in current meta? Well, most easily with fb/ren/druid comp. 2x harrier firebrand, 1x harrier renegade, 1x harrier druid. Four supporters with easy and instant access to all boons, short boon re-application interval and high output volume. But what does the community run instead? Chronos, with their low boon re-application interval and high'ish skill threshold (compared to firebrands at least). And two druids because... well, one druid could... you know... DIE.

Im sorry for this rant, but this really had to be said. Instead of trying to come up with ideas how ANET should make raids "easier" for new players, how about all of you take the first step towards how YOU can make raids easier on yourself and new players? Sometimes this community strongly reminds me of those children instantly running to their parent(s) asking for help, instead of trying on their own first.

I feel like we are constantly talking past each other. My whole point was that upkeeping might, fury and spirits is so easy that really everyone can do it. If you cant deliver that, then you shouldnt be doing endcontent at all.

This as answer to the "but what if the druid we have cant upkeep might" argument that gets put before me everytime I say any other healer is better as a second healer than druid.

In no way am I saying that you need a second healer, for anything in gw2. But since most lfg squads like the idea of a second healer... then at least... *PLEASE* go for one of the other options since every other healer brings at least one additional thing that will speed up your kills, compared to 2nd druid.

2x tank chrono, 2x druid is the worst comp you can run atm. :(

I kinda like them? We bleed fire you can reflect for extra dmg, which I find really nice. Outflanked no issue with that. The birds are a bit weird, but honestly not a problem except if they spawn camp you on bloomhunger together with skelks ;) For vengeance I suggest bringing a spellbreaker, it helps tons.

There seems to be this misconception that you "sacrifice" dps with a fb/ren comp compared to chrono/druid comp. At least thats what Ive been told pretty much everytime now if I bring this comp up somewhere.

But thats (nearly) not the case, as Id like to show with some numbers on VG:

- Banners: 13k

- Druid: 3k

- TankChrono: 4k

- OffChrono: 10k

- DPS: 20k

- TankFB: 3k

- Quickness FB: 14k

- Power Alac Renegade: 10k (+ kalla elite -> 1k per person -> 5k)

- Harrier Alac Renegade: 2k (+5k kalla elite)

So, for a "classic" speedclear comp, that would be 2 chronos, 1 druid, 1 bs, 6 dps. 13+3+4+10+6x20 = 150k dps. A good tank will get pretty close to offchrono, so for the riskiest comp, youll get around 5k more -> 155k dps.

The fb/ren pendant would be 2 quickness FB, 1 power alac renegade, 1 druid, 1 bs, 5xdps. 13+3+2x14+15+5x20 = 159k

Lets take a look at the "lfg squad meta" for monday raids, 2 chronos, 2 druids, 1 bs, 5 dps. 13+2x3+4+10+5x20 = 133k.

Now we compare it to tankfb, quickfb, druid, power alac renegade, bs, 5 dps. 13+3+3+14+15+5x20 = 148k.

And what about the most realistic lfg squad comp? 2 tank chronos, 2 druids, 1 bs, 5 dps. 13+2x3+2x4+5x20 = 127k.

On fb/ren that would be tankfb, healfb, druid, power alac renegade, bs, 5 dps. 13+3+3+3+15+5x20 = 137k.

Or it could be harrier alac renegade and quickfb. 13+3+3+7+14+5x20 = 140k.

Last but not least, the maximum support comp numbers, just to make a point. I wouldnt ever run this because its ridiculously much overheal. Tankfb+healfb+harrier alac renegade+druid+bs+dps -> 13+3+3+3+7+5x20 = 129k.

As you can see, even with that totally ridiculous comp you still get more dps than with 2x druid, 2x tank chrono... the comp that has been standard for at least a year now on VG in 99% of all lfg squads Ive joined.

You loose 1 dps slot on the speedclear comp, which shows on bosses like cairn and largos, where a dps slot weighs just soo much more (30k+ mirage or renegade). So, yes... with that comp and IF everyone runs best-in-slot dps build and IF everyone reaches top dps, you loose dps when trying the same with the corresponding fb/ren comp.

However, thats a comp that only a few statics run. The big majority runs 2 healers, and thats where fb/ren pulls ahead. Everyone not running the most aggressive speedclear comp really should take a good look at fb/ren comps. They bring a lot more support, more dps and easier gameplay. The only thing fb/ren is missing..... is a portal for w3. But then, power chrono is quite nice there.