megilandil.7506

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"megilandil.7506" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > Its a build (s) that have obvious counters. Imo its a l2p. Build will carry them so far. Im more of a "learn to deal with it or dont complain" kinda person. If you are one to refuse to tweak your build to accommodate your survival, or not care enough to learn, thats a personal issue that does invalidate your arguement. If you dont know how to, ppl will be more than willing to help tweak your build or teach you how to counter such event.

> > >

> > > I can gear up my P/P build and spar/practice with ya if you are NA to help you out .

> >

> > its not a l2p question or question or kitten, p/p an other spam or one shot builds are so destructives at +1 you are fighting some dude and the p/p kitenn apears and just spaming 3 with no other kitten skill decides the whole combat.

> > this have of builds have to disapear or get a big tweak that the kitten might staking go out of the spamable 3

>

> At risk of starting an argument, it is classified as l2p. P/P has its obvious flaws and learning to use it to your advantage is key (as fighting against any build). P/P unload spam runs out of initiative...fast. Once you block/dodge/reflect/evade the initial 3/4 unloads, they have little to nothing left. Learning to bait out all their initiative is a l2p. Knowing that is what you need to do to survive the initial waves is a l2p. That's the literal definition of it.

>

> Is it strong? Yes. Is it OP? No (as you can only do so much thanks to initiative). Can you beat them? Yes.

>

> Call it what you will, however it is what it is. If you need help, im sure people here can give you more tips or help you with your build to better assist you against them.

bla bla bla,thing is not about dueling p/p, thing is about how destructive as a +1 is p/p, when you are +1 by a enemy p/p you are destroyed you can bait or shit, you are figting anothe that consumed great part of your resouses and atention and you get destroyed by a moron who plays only with one key

> @"Zollec.5734" said:

> Something that I think will give PvP more meaning and engage the player base more is advanced PvP player statistics (EX: overall K/D, avg kills per game).

> The idea is that when you click on a player's name on the leaderboard, a panel will open where it displays all their game statistics (if the player chooses to make it public).

>

> Currently all we can see is a players rank, rating, wins and loses.

> Here is a list of possible statistics to make available for everyone to see.

> ----What we already know (Tier 1):

> #: Rank

> R: Rating

> W: Wins

> L: Loses

> ---Convenience numbers from Tier 1 statistics:

> G: Games played (W + L)

> WR: Win ratio (W / G)

> +/-: Plus minus (W - L)

>

> ----Tier 2 statistics

> D+: Total times awarded top damage during the season

> H+: Total times awarded top healing during the season

> R+: Total times awarded top revives during the season

> K+: Total times awarded top kills during the season

> O+: Total times awarded top offence during the season

> F+: Total times awarded top defence during the season

>

> TD: Total damage from all games during the season

> TH: Total healing from all games during the season

> TR: Total revives from all games during the season

> TK: Total kills from all games during the season

> TX: Total deaths from all games during the season

>

> ---Convenience numbers from Tier 2 statistics:

> K/D: Kill/death ratio (TK / TX)

> D/D: Damage/death ratio (TD / TX)

> H/D: Healing/death ratio (TH / TX)

> R/D: Revives/death ratio (TR / TX)

>

> KPG: Kills per game (TK / G)

> DPG: Damage per game (TD / G)

> HPG: Healing per game (TH / G)

> RPG: Revives per game (TR / G)

>

> DPK: Damage per kill (TD / TK)

> DPH: Damage per heal (TD / TH)

>

> %D+: percentage of times awarded top damage during the season (D+ / G)

> %H+: percentage of times awarded top healing during the season (H+ / G)

> %R+: percentage of times awarded top revives during the season (R+ / G)

> %K+: percentage of times awarded top kills during the season (K+ / G)

> %O+: percentage of times awarded top offence during the season (O+ / G)

> %F+: percentage of times awarded top defence during the season (F+ / G)

> TLS: Team leader score ((%D+ + %H+ + %R+ + %K+ + %O+ + %F+) / 6)

>

> ------------------------------------------

> The idea is that these numbers would appear in table format, just like sports statistics, and the table can be sorted by an individual stat if the user chooses.

> Another thing that could be shown is the pie chart that displays the player's class breakdown (games by profession), but for the current season only.

> These are just sample statistics, if implemented it could include more or less.

> Overall I think this would not be too difficult of a project to complete and I think it would really engage the player base and give them something more to talk about other than just raw rank and rating.

> It would be fun to compare some key statistics that give an indication of how well you perform your role in PvP with your friends and rivals.

>

> Does anyone like/dislike the idea or have a similar suggestion?

useless statistics, and more not knowing the builds/roles that used when awarded those stats

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> The last thing we need is buffs for a class that is as easy to learn as necro , the community went through 3-4 seasons in pvp dominated by 3-4 dh per team and the community doesn't want to see that coming back anytime soon. DH is another low risk=high reward style build typical of GW2 and that require even less investment than a scourge to become " decent" at it, made a thread suggesting for buffs in general but dh or guardian were never really on my radar

DH becomes predominant those seasons not for the strenght of the class, becomes predominan because DH stacks so well, shared blocks(=permablock), permanent trap uptime to cover point etc etc, the main "nerf" to DH was the class limit staking,

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> Its a build (s) that have obvious counters. Imo its a l2p. Build will carry them so far. Im more of a "learn to deal with it or dont complain" kinda person. If you are one to refuse to tweak your build to accommodate your survival, or not care enough to learn, thats a personal issue that does invalidate your arguement. If you dont know how to, ppl will be more than willing to help tweak your build or teach you how to counter such event.

>

> I can gear up my P/P build and spar/practice with ya if you are NA to help you out .

its not a l2p question or question or shit, p/p an other spam or one shot builds are so destructives at +1 you are fighting some dude and the p/p kitenn apears and just spaming 3 with no other fuking skill decides the whole combat.

this have of builds have to disapear or get a big tweak that the fuking might staking go out of the spamable 3

Mesmer will never be "nerfed" correctly if they dont go to the mechanic mesmer should have by concept, clones/phantasms with utility/dmg output and after a shater a significant period of not farting more IAs, shatering a sort of final blow/last resource that lets them defensseles not the continuos fart - shater mechanic that have now

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> Keep playing and get better, you play thief and is on silver, that means you're not skilled. Watch or ask for a thief on plat to help you on how to play your class, thief is a hard class to learn, you're either good or bad, there is no middle point for now unfortunately since thief is high risk high reward.

>

> 50%+ winrate is where gold players are. Gold players are skilled class wise but lack on how to play conquest mode, they don't control the map, don't pay attention, can't read the enemy.

>

> As a thief, controlling the map is a must, ask help for a thief main on the leaderboards, there is alot of good ones.

another time the same joke high reward high what?

calling high risk one of the profesions with more escape tools in the game is a pure joke, you engage, you find they are better than you and you disapear, high risk is for the ones who are stuck in the combat that are unable to disengage, have more risk a faceroll scourge than a thief

but the others statements are true, thief is a game maker a good thief with good map reading is a win condition, with their decaping, +1 , sideobjectives control, a bad thief is puting your team in a perpetual 4 vs 5 because you can join a big fight unles for ganking the one who is leaving a bit for recovering health and/or cds rr a very quick gang of someother highly focused in combat with other player

> @"Oneira.7691" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Oneira.7691" said:

> > > The endless whining about mesmers and scourges (it used to be about thieves and guardian bunker builds) is why I don't play pvp anymore.

> > >

> > > I've been killed by scourges more times than I have hours in my life, but I don't come on here screaming for them to be nerfed. I just try to figure out how to deal with them better. If they happen to be 1st tier, well then someone's going to be. If you nerf mesmer and scourge into the ground, then some other class(es) is going to dominate and the calls for nerfs will go on and won.

> >

> > Spellbreaker is easy to play low risk and high reward spec as well, but i have no problems fighting one, and you still have many counterplay to it.

> >

> > Mesmer and scourge (especially with fb) have zero counterplay and it's unfun having constantly 10 condis after you cleanse them 3 times.

> >

> > If everybody shut up it's obvious they won't do anything about it, but making posts and posts and post i hope finally they will listen and do something about it.

>

> To say that mesmers and scourges have zero counterplay is too much exaggeration. Yes, I understand your point that they are devilish to play against but there are counters. They may not be 100% effective but they are there. I'm far better at dealing with scourges than I used to be.

>

> Pointing out imbalances is one thing, but a constant barrage of Nerf Mesmers and Scourges! posts is actually counterproductive, because it drowns out the more reasonable attempts at suggesting balancing changes, many of whom are made by mesmers or scourges who know their class inside and out and have a better idea of what needs to be changed.

counterplay to scourge?

spam all shades in point plus necro body----- point 100% covered----- no one can enter ----> point decaped and caped

spam all shades in point plus necro body----- point 100% covered----- no one can enter ----> point defended

... yeah you can go out and with a good ranged class kill them... but this game mode is about controling points, and scourge is broken in this aspect

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> 2. I do genuinely agree that in SPvP only the elite specs should be freely available. One of the things that is cool about GW2's PvP is the removal of gear and stat based advantages. No one is going to show up in a match with the kitten Warglaives of Azzinoth and there's nothing you can do about how much more damage they're able to bring to the fight. It's all about how well built your character and build are which you have free control over. I really can't imagine the number of sales they'd lose out on would be that drastic for sPvP only.

>

bad point, f2p is a permanent trial mode, they have to not be allowed in any of the "competitive" formats: ranked ATs

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > What you guys are saying makes no sense, how do you counter it, if no line of sight is required? The guy was on the opposite side of a wall, I didn't see any tell at all.

>

> There is a tell, and a cast time. Watch for what legend they are in and observe their movement patterns. Usually it is pretty obvious when they are about to use it, kinda similar to how you can oftentimes read when one is about to use Staff 5. Try to get a feel for what 1200 range is because oftentimes they will use it beyond that, which means that if you stay past 1200, it'll be easier for you to counter them. Chances are they will still try their burst on you regardless, which means they will be more vulnerable if you properly avoid it. Time your dodges, your CCs, stealth, nukes, etc. It is an effective skill but it also costs a lot of energy and has counterplay to it. Save your blocks for when they are in Glint or for after the unblockable period ends. Track their active weapon and cooldowns, as well as weaponswap CDs. Are they in swords? Chances are they will try to sword 2 or 4 you. Are they in staff? Get ready for a staff 5. There are of course times when they can +1 you out of nowhere but I'd say that is more an issue of map awareness. Other classes have teleports that don't require LoS, most of which are instant.

>

> Just my two cents. Revs are one of the easier classes to fight. On occasion I will absolutely get demolished by them, but I can't help but have respect for those players because they beat me on a class that I have the massive upper hand on (Soulbeast). A good rev is scary, but rightfully so.

you have read the part about a complete obstructed LOS of the ops complain? complete obstructed LOS = No visible tell, no visible legend, no visible shit

lets adress the firts point on this

DE should never had hapen, this game (specially pvp modes)dont need camper snipers

calling skillfull a class/spec that can kill at 1500 and stealth is a joke, and if they want a 1500 range stealth class that with high damage the rules are simple if enemy cant reach them alive DE have to be dead whith no escape method(REVEALED AND ROOTED TO PLACE)

in my modest opinion, this is not a fault of system being rigged, the fault is the system is not rigged enought. let me explain:

in this game mode not all classes roles have the same impact on game. imagine this escenario:

-2 teams of average 1500, all two teams have the same composition 1600, 1500, 1500, 1500, 1400

-mirror comps

-supose the mmr is acurate to "real skill"

-team A their 1600 is a roamer thief and their 1400 a suport firebrand team B their 1400 is the roamer thief and 1600 their suport firebrand

A thief will destroy B thief in the 90% of fights making team A dominant in rotations/side objectives and having some time to +1 in bigger fights, the impact of superior skills of suporting character are less than the impact of superior skills of the roamer and this little advantage on big figths will be nullified by +1 .

this macht will end with a victory by a wide margin for team A

sure... invuln is the thing that breaks the game... no

the thing that breaks the game is stealth and its **antilogic** implementation:

-logic implemetation of stealth dont allow insta stealth while in combat (you cant disapear in plain sight of an enemy focused on you)

-logic implementation of stealth makes moving while in stealth at reduced speed(moving carefully to not make noises that breaks stealth)

-logic implementation of stealth makes that stealth is breaked by taking almost every single action(you make a noise that breaks it)

-logic implementation of stealth makes stealths breaked at starting an attack action not at hitting with it

resuming: logic implementation of stealth makes it a strategic tool that hides your moves not a tactic combat tool

thief must have stealth and fast moving(ports) but not at the same time if you want move secretly you have to do at reduced speed and if you want to move fast you have to do in plain sight, disapearing in midle of a fight and apearing two secs after in the other side of map is not ok

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> This game has been built and balanced around having a down state removing it now will do more harm then good. But to be honestly i think anet needs to add more things to down state they were going well with HoT when they released ancient magics.

>

> All i would like is to be able to crawl while downed and make it move slower and slower while your downed stay hp decreases, and maybe downstate abilities reflecting your elite specialization like as a chrono instead of summoning an illusionary rogue you summon a well under you which freezes your downstate bar for a little, things like that i would love to see.

uff this is a very bad idea, problem on down state is the variety of skill per class making some ones more strong in downstate than others, downstate have to be normalized and "brilliant" ideas as vengeance, stealth/teleport/move , attaking and recovering at the same time, usng F skills while downed etc etc be avoided

> @StarDroid.1038 said:

> Anet wanted to experiment with limiting duo que in season 9 to 1,6k rating(Plat 2), this change was to improve matchmaking and giving more even games on top tiers and would stop from top 10 rank PvP from duo queuing and stomping any and all resistance against lower ranked players.

>

> I can't say, if match quality has improved, but what I can say me and my PvP partner, we have an issue now. We play together and been doing that since season 3 and most times hovered around plat 1 or 2 anywhere from 1,5k to 1,7k and this the new duo que being locked at 1,6k we can't que anymore until we lose games.

> We don't care about the leaderboards, just want to have fun and ranked gives the best MMR, because unraked is awful and unrewarding, so in order to stay sub 1,6k we had needed to basically play bad builds, none meta builds, try new classes do anything and everything to NOT play to our level, because what's the point of playing for us, if we will have to que alone.

> I feel bad at times for loosing duels, because I didn't want to win or leaving people not stumped, because not wanting to win... I feel bad for my team, but what else I'm going to? I can always DC and make sure they don't lose rating and basically waste their time.

> If I'm an kitten for not wanting to get above 1,6k now after the duo que lock I'm an kitten and I'm sorry, but PvP is meant to be fun for me and duo queuing is my fun, but I will make sure my teammates won't lose rating, because of me, that's the only thing I can do.

>

> So I would hope that Anet will increase the duo que limit to 1,7k or better to 1,8k, prevent the top top players from not working together, because they are that good that they can't be matched together and lose or at least that happens rarely that they lose or gives us duo que ladder or let us have duo que team rating, give us something, because 1,6k is too aggressive, since I don't believe plat t2 is that prestigious that it needs to be locked for solo play.

>

> Soo yee that is my story... forced to play subpar, let my team down all to keep my current team together and avoid plat t2 and I will gladly do that for my teammate.

> This is my feedback to the new changes, dam I hope it gets changed.

pure contradiction... if you play just for the fun play unranked or if you want team competition go to AT

ranked is for **PERSONAL** rank, and the only way of getting and acurate mesure of **PERSONAL** skill rank is pure soloq, DUO q have to be removed at all from ranked, and measures agaisnt q sync and other "cheats" have to be enforced

The real problem in the two classes is the same stupid mechanic, high burts that starts from invi, in combat invi is a bad design mechanic , strategic invi to ocultate movements out of combat is an interesting mechanic, in combat instant invi acces is a bad design

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > @Genesis.5169 said:

> > > > @Exedore.6320 said:

> > > > > @Genesis.5169 said:

> > > > > I think everyone in this thread who's complaining about conditions fundamentally does not understand the game. Every class has tools to completely negate either the applications, the damage or completely remove conditions. And good players usually do.

> > > > >

> > > > > If your getting condi bombed in one rotation PUT. SOME. kitten. CLEANSE. ON. YOUR. BAR.

> > > > Lol, your'e so ignorant. Have fun dealing with 15 stacks of confusion or 10 stacks of torment + 5 stacks of burn which are applied in 2-3 seconds while you're CC'ed (or CC'ed immediately after). Then deal with the fact that condi clear may only remove the pile of cover conditions instead of the huge damage stack.

> > > >

> > > > This is NOT a "learn to play" problem.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I play a firebrand, i generally get cleanse those conditions atleast 3-4 times because i can consider my self bombed, maybe you should learn to play the game ill help you start here's some infomation about my class and just a peer into how i deal with conditions its not hard to do doesn't require timing like dodges or blocks can't be baited like an aegis can its just straight up Conditional denial which could remove those said stacks that you have no idea how to get rid of.

> > >

> > > Major Adept - Smiter's Boon

> > > Cast Lesser Smite Condition when you use a healing skill.

> > >

> > > Chapter 2: Radiant Recovery ¾ 4

> > > Release magic from pages detailing the rebuilding of Vabbi, cleansing conditions on nearby allies. Allies are healed for each condition removed.

> > >

> > > Chapter 4: Stalwart Stand ¼ 10

> > > Recount the stand of Elonian loyalists against Palawa Joko, granting resistance to your allies.

> > >

> > > Epilogue: Unbroken Lines ¾ 12

> > > Recalling the memory of heroes past, enchant nearby allies with formidable defense

> > >

> > > And just for you heres a direct link to what a straight condition removal skill looks like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite_Condition_(PvP)

> > >

> > >

> > > _P.S. Most condition removal breaks stun and on the rare occasion it doesn't break stun which is rare if you die before you stand up from conditions You need to learn to not face tank necros like bronze players, secondly this is a learn to play problem._

> > >

> >

> > Ancient Quaggans would say _Exceptio probat regulam_, which stands for _the exception proves the rule _, Firebrand is an exception, thats why hes anyhow viable.

>

> Okay, So.

> Mirages

> Warriors

> Engineers

> Necros

>

> Have more cleanses then firebrands....and so those guy are exceptions too right? Wait actually.

> Every class can put more then 3 versions of condition clear.

>

> _I guess the whole game is riddled with exceptions._

And thats the real problem to many cleanses that make if you dont build for condi spikes/bombing condies are useles

> @LUST.7241 said:

> This is a discussion. I just want closer games to happen more often because they are fun as heck.

>

> I think when a close game is valued the same as a complete stomp...there's a problem and it can be discouraging.

> At the same time, people play some really close games...only to lose so much...also discouraging.

>

> Right now the ratings gain/loss is based on ratings...and that's fine. But a Legendary is only getting +6 for good close games then losing -18 for really close games...recovering is hard. So, some of them just play off hours to pad stats a bit and recover.

>

> Maybe a "bonus" calculation needs to be added to rating adjustment? This would essentially make closer games more valuable than having everything count the same and discourage off-hours farming. Plus, ideally, this would more accurately place people in ratings.

>

> _Just examples (assume the default gain/loss is 10 for both):_

>

> **1-50 point gap:**

> Winners: Gain slightly more (+15)

> Losers: Lose significantly less (-5)

> * Both sides played a good and close game, showing that they were equally matched. Rematch?

>

> **51-150 point gap:**

> Winners: Gain slightly more (+12)

> Losers: Lose the default (-10)

> * Both sides played an occasionally good game, but crucial mistakes were made on one side. The better team reigned supreme. Better luck next time.

>

> **151-249 point gap:**

> Winners: Gain the default (+10)

> Losers: Lose the default (-10)

> * Zone of Git Gud.

>

> **250-349 point gap:**

> Winners: Gain slightly less (+7)

> Losers: Lose slightly more (-15)

> * Clown fiesta. Don't think one team can compete at this level yet.

>

> **350-500 point gap:**

> Winners: Gain significantly less (+5)

> Losers: Lose significantly less (-5)

> * Matchmaker clearly failed. Error. Try again later. kitten.

>

totally flawed system... this will end in : let the losser get some extra points and all get more rewarded. correct system(asuming that system can make the correct calculations) is the S1 system: invisible goals(based on expected match outcome) : you fall in a match that you are suposed to be tottaly stomped and manage to get x points a loss reduction, and equal for wining team: you are suposed to totally dominate the match but rivals finally get a close match... your win will be pure marginal

post after post of people not getting what are the** two** only real problem whith condis:

The prblems are:

1: excesive cleansing utilities and cleansing procs. with the actual amount of cleansings on the table if condis arent spikey condis will become unusable. the dmg not dealt in a frame of 5 secs max will be ignored by some cleansing active or proced

2: Some clases can shitloatd tons of multiple low stacked condis whith only one action.

if condies shoud be debuff stacked in time basis cleansings have to be rares and in long cd unless this you only want to remove condi play from game

> @TheDevice.2751 said:

> Dragonhun- I mean Scourge.

>

> My question is: what is the difference between the Scourge and DH (before PoF). When there were plenty of complaints about there being stacks of DH on each team and them deleting people who got too close to them?

>

> Where are all the threads that are like "Stay out of their circles", "if you died in their circles, you deserved it", "get gud", "they are low skill ceiling" or my favorite "It's a L2P issue". The similarities are almost scary and you could pretty much say all those things about the scourge that people said about the DH as they all can potentially apply.

>

> Whats the difference? Is it because Scourge is being supported by firebrand? And if thats the case, should we be disregarding all the complaints from lower-ranked players since its quite rare to see a scourge/fb duo below plat?

>

> Btw, I think scourge should get nerfed. I just would like to know how this situation is different from the DH one.

DH(traper) must be in circle to do their thing, they drop their shit(traps) in his feet , scourge drops shit at range this is the diference, dh are "broken" defending circles, preset trap and drop other imediatly after activation

, scourge are "broken" either defending and asaulting circles

to put other pvp modes firts they have to make the build management tool, if not any other format will become trashed by players... oh i get into DM with a conquest , build... crapp

> @omgdracula.6345 said:

> The easiest thing would be that when a condi is cleansed is has a form reapplication defense. Like a delay. Say you cleanse bleed and a necro attacks you with a dagger to bleed you again. Bleed would take says 2 seconds longer to apply.

great idea... and make same with power when you are hit by and auto you can be hit next time with it... great idea

the real problem of condis is the big staking atacks have not big tells and tend to be ranged and in the mess of a big combat it seems that condis apears from nowhere and in a continuos way, its not a problem of balance, its a perception problem while you are figting that one mele clas a necro or a mess are filling wou with condis at safe distance and with poor animation atacks and only real skilled palayers are aware of all enemys on field poor ones like me are centrated on the melee in front and the other next while the one really killing us not even noticed