mortrialus.3062
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Posts posted by mortrialus.3062
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> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:
> Hi Everyone,
> **General**
>
> * Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel
I'm glad it's going way. Something like 70% of builds were running it to cheese out one animation or another.
>
> **Condi Mirage**
> We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.
>
> * Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
> * Phantasmal Warlock:
> + Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
> + Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
> * Chaos Vortex:
> + Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
> + Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
> + Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only
I'm glad Phantasmal Warlock and Illusionary Counter are going down to 1 Phantasm and Clone respectively.
Though I think it makes more sense for for Infinite Horizon Ambush clones on Chaos Vortex to have 50% reduced duration, but not the Mirage itself. This makes it consistent with other Mirage Ambush attacks like the Axe and the Scepter, which have 50% reduced stacks and 50% reduced duration from the clones respectively. I think that's overkill. At it's maximum potential not counting silliness like Torment and Burning duration sigils, it's a 3,539 damage attack with a full 1s cast time, and only .5s can be covered with Mirage Cloak.
> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:
> **Holosmith**
> Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.
>
> This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.
>
> * Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
> * Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only
I feel like you guys are still _REALLY_ bizarrely gun shy about nerfing Holosmith compared to what other over performing builds receive. Which is baffling because there's a solid argument to be made that it's the single best build for Ranked Conquest right now.
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> @"PurebladeProductions.4875" said:
> Prior to the addition of build templates, changing game mode would automatically swap you to another build made in that game mode. While those builds were converted to build templates, the auto-swap functionality no longer exists. Since this functionality is no longer present, options on each build template to automatically be swapped to when entering a specified game mode would be great.
>
> Quick UI mockup using existing icons:
>
> ---
>
> 
>
> ---
>
> The first example has the terrestrial and aquatic buttons moved down, and a checkbox for each game mode added above those buttons. Checking a game mode's box would cause the build to automatically be loaded when you change to the corresponding game mode, as well as disable the checkbox on other build templates on that character.
>
> The second example has icons for each game mode in the bar of the template's name instead. The icons would be grayed out by default and become highlighted when selected, with the same functionality as the checkboxes—automatically loading the build when changing to one of the highlighted game modes, and disabling them on other build templates on the same character.
>
> Being able to check/highlight multiple game modes would allow one build to be automatically equipped in, for example, both WvW and PvP without using up two templates for the exact same build. Checking/highlighting none of the boxes/icons would naturally also be an option.
>
> The checkboxes/icons would also allow players to see at a glance in which game modes a build would be automatically equipped.
>
> ---
>
> I don't know how hard it'd be to actually implement, but it'd be great to have this feature return. I just know I'm going to enter WvW with the wrong build at some point and not notice before it's too late...
This X10000000.
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Going to just echo my feedback and change suggestions from the feedback thread and the reasons why aside from just complaining about the price.
TL:DR
Overall I'm nowhere near as down as it as other players. I think it needs a number of tweaks.
1. Implement manual saving for the Build and Equipment templates so that you can make quick minor changes to your build in the moment for certain encounters without having edited the actual template.
2. Remove the upper limit of the Equipment Template slots in particular.
3. Separate the PvE, SPvP, and WvW Build and Equipment tabs so that one character can theoretically save 6x PvE Builds Templates, 6x SPvP Build Templates, 6x WvW Build Templates, which will go a huge way towards making gear templates in particular feel far less choking.
My biggest issue right now is that build templates autosave. It's not so much a template so much as it just saves whatever you were last doing. I would greatly prefer if there was a manual save+load button, because I do often find myself tweaking a build by just a utility or two, or a weapon set, and it would be nice to be able to snap things back to the default by reloading the template.
I find myself really wishing I had more Equipment templates in particular. While you can go a a looooong way with just the three starter Templates and keeping the rest in storage ([see HERE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1fcWHhGqvo "See HERE")), I **STILL** feel like I'm choked on gear templates in particular. I could genuinely use more than 10+ of them. Like for my main I was able to fit Diviner's Chrono, Minstrel's Chrono, Viper's Condition Mirage, Raid DPS Chrono, Labyrinth Farm Mirage, a condition WvW build I was working on. But I couldn't fit any sort of power mesmer for WvW. I couldn't fit a boss killer Staff/Staff mirage for soloing group content. I couldn't fit a scepter boonshare chrono for when I'm doing content like Auric Basin where you're fighting structures and phantasms will never become clones because their AI is bugged on certain structures. And when I play Conquest I have a lot of gear I wear for fun to make myself look different for conquest games whenever the mood strikes me and as it is now with autosave I'd be nice to have a tab to tweak my gear between different cosmetic sets I've made without screwing up one of my actual Equipment Templates that actually matter. Either greatly expand or remove the upper limit on these, or add a storage feature similar to build templates.
I also have to say I do **really dislike** how we've all lost the free saved builds in WvW and SPvP. I'll always have to dedicate either a built template slot or a storage template going into SPvP and WvW, when before that was saved separately. And WvW is going to need potentially need multiple templates on it's own. I'm personally a bit saddened by that particular loss of convenience and I'll also not looking forward to setting up all my characters for their SPvP builds all over again. I really wish that your full set of SPvP and WvW build templates operated like the old system where they were saved completely separately from your PvE build. So you'd go into WvW and you could customize your six Build Template and Equipment slots completely differently than your PvE templates.
now the fact that I'm going to have to save a build just for SPvP on all of my different characters and that's actively taking away from the PvE builds I could be saving, and the WvW builds I could be saving, is giving me conniptions.
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I REALLY wish that the Build and Equipment templates for SPvP were like pre-patch were your saved build was completely different than your PvE and WvW build. So that I could theoretically have 6x PvE and 6x WvW builds saved for when I entered those game modes and 6x SPvP builds saved when I enter that game mode. Right now the fact that I'm going to have to save a build just for SPvP on all of my different characters and that's actively taking away from the PvE builds I could be saving, and the WvW builds I could be saving, is giving me conniptions.
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Honestly I'm pretty satisfied with the overall functionality. There are some criticisms I have but out of the box I'm pretty satisfied now that I have a lot of things up and running.
First and foremost, obviously, every is taking issue at the cost. Maxing out build templates, equipment templates, and account build storage is too much. That's probably a double whammy of both a complete build and equipment template being probably 25-50% too expensive for a quality of life feature. But also build templates are coming now that most players on their main have anywhere between 5-15 builds just for their main across PvE, PvP and WvW, so it feels like it's frontloaded years of built up cost. Imagine if we were buying all the character, inventory, and bank slots we've purchased over 7 years all in one go. It's a massive investment. I think everyone expected it to be a bit monetized but I think someone posted that it ends up being $42 to max out a character? That's just too much.
Honestly an Equipment and Build template combo, if it _has_ to be monetized, should not be more than 400 gems for both the equipment and build template slot on a character, similar to how expensive new inventory slots are. And rather than just one complimentary build slot, we should have gotten enough to completely max out a character for both gear and build templates, to take the sting out of having built up 10-15 builds we might want to have saved. 400 gems here for a Equipment+Build combo and there when you decided you want your alt to have an extra saved build. But many players looking at potentially $100+ dollars to unlock the gear and build templates they had previously accumulated for free with ArcDPS, front loaded all at once, is staggeringly high.
My biggest issue right now is that build templates autosave. It's not so much a template so much as it just saves whatever you were last doing. I would greatly prefer if there was a manual save+load button, because I do often find myself tweaking a build by just a utility or two, or a weapon set, and it would be nice to be able to snap things back to the default by reloading the template.
When you do have everything set up I really like the feel of it. Just a couple of clicks and I've instantly gone from Support Chrono to Condition Mirage. It's faster and snappier than Arc DPS in this regard, which would often take 15s to load all your build and I found would often get things wrong. The equipment storage alone has saved me probably 30 storage spaces permanently. Even though I have legendary armor and weapons, lugging all those weapons around and the most commonly used sigils and runes took up a lot of space.
However, I find myself really wishing I had more Equipment templates in particular. While you can go a a looooong way with just the three starter Templates and keeping the rest in storage ([see HERE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1fcWHhGqvo "See HERE")), I **STILL** feel like I'm choked on gear templates in particular. I could genuinely use more than 10+ of them. Like for my main I was able to fit Diviner's Chrono, Minstrel's Chrono, Viper's Condition Mirage, Raid DPS Chrono, Labyrinth Farm Mirage, a condition WvW build I was working on. But I couldn't fit any sort of power mesmer for WvW. I couldn't fit a boss killer Staff/Staff mirage for soloing group content. I couldn't fit a scepter boonshare chrono for when I'm doing content like Auric Basin where you're fighting structures and phantasms will never become clones because their AI is bugged on certain structures. And when I play Conquest I have a lot of gear I wear for fun to make myself look different for conquest games whenever the mood strikes me and as it is now with autosave I'd be nice to have a tab to tweak my gear between different cosmetic sets I've made without screwing up one of my actual Equipment Templates that actually matter.
I also have to say I do **really dislike** how we've all lost the free saved builds in WvW and SPvP. I'll always have to dedicate either a built template slot or a storage template going into SPvP and WvW, when before that was saved separately. And WvW is going to need potentially need multiple templates on it's own. I'm personally a bit saddened by that particular loss of convenience and I'll also not looking forward to setting up all my characters for their SPvP builds all over again. I really wish that your full set of SPvP and WvW build templates operated like the old system where they were saved completely separately from your PvE build. So you'd go into WvW and you could customize your six Build Template and Equipment slots completely differently than your PvE templates.
now the fact that I'm going to have to save a build just for SPvP on all of my different characters and that's actively taking away from the PvE builds I could be saving, and the WvW builds I could be saving, is giving me conniptions.
TL:DR
Overall I'm nowhere near as down as it as other players. I think it needs a number of tweaks.
1. Implement manual saves for the Build and Equipment templates so that you can make quick minor changes to your build in the moment for certain encounters without having edited the actual template.
2. Remove the upper limit of the Equipment Template slots in particular over the build Templates and Storage.
3. Separate the PvE, SPvP, and WvW Build and Equipment tabs so that one character can theoretically save 6x PvE Builds Templates, 6x SPvP Build Templates, 6x WvW Build Templates, which will go a huge way towards making gear templates in particular feel far less choking.
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> @"babazhook.6805" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Just going to echo in here what I said in CMC's PvP balance megathread.
> >
> > The problem with Condition Thief is that unlike other condition builds across the other professions, all of thief's weapon sets are 100% designed to to only be really strong from a power perspective and naturally very few of the skills have damaging conditions built into them in any way.
> >
> > The way it becomes condition thief is entirely from traits, which sort of brute force it into a condition build in a way you don't really see in other classes to the degree you do on thief. Traiting so that specific skills do condition damage or augmenting their Condi damage further is one thing, a classic example is Duelist's Deception makes Mesmer Pistol Skills bleed. But condition thief only directly augments Steal, a skill that has absolutely no business doing 7.5k in poison damage and enough confusion to do 1k damage on use due to its instant nature with as little counter play possible for any skill to have. To put this into perspective a lot of people think the pistol Phantasm does too much bleed damage but not only does the mesmer have a cast animation the Phantasm has a 3s channel while it ramps up the level of damage that condition thief can do instantly. Confusing Images takes 3seconds when you include the precast to ramp up that many confusion stacks.
> >
> > And a condition daredevil will do the same amount of damage as the Scepter+Pistol combo, which takes 4 seconds to complete entirely, instantly and unblockable to boot, sans about 1k power damage the mesmer will do.
> >
> > And the other traits it uses tend to random proc off any skill on any weapon set. They can proc off daggers, swords, shortbow, pistols, rifles. Getting hit with a dagger 4 might be 1k poke damage in condis, or it might be 3.5k Condi bomb because Deadly Ambish proc'd, which later caused Panic Strike to proc, which caused more poison to proc.
> >
> > The best course of action is to remove all the traits that put condition damage onto steal, sit down with thief and decide regarding dagger and sword "Okay this one is the dedicated condition weapon. This one is the dedicated power weapon."
> >
> > And if they won't do that they need to make all the on proc traits less broad and more specific and take all the condition damage steal can be buffed with away from steal and move it into specific weapon skills.
> >
> > Rather than Steal having 6 stacks of confusion, have a trait that gives Larcenous Strike 4 stacks of confusion.
> >
> > Or Rather than being able to stuff Steal with 7.5k poison damage, have a trait that gives Heartseeker 3k in bleed stacks and if the target is below 50% health 4k damage in poison stacks instead.
> >
> > And of course addressing Sword2+Dodge spam.
> >
> > That way there's a lot more counter play to condition thief and how it does damage to you aside from just climbing into stuff it can't port to. Players would have actual skills to look out for and counter. And it's also a lot more precise and reliable for skilled thief players to land.
>
> What condition thief are you talking about?
**THE ONE LISTED FIRST THING IN THE OP YOU PEDANT**
> Why do people persist in doing this? S/d condition is NOT condition thief and any issues with s/d condition thief are not the same as issues with any other condition build.
>
> The other main Condition builds present are SB , PD builds and d/d builds. All of these have conditions inherent in the weapon .P/d as example has conditions available on every single weapon attack. Why do you tranpose the fact that s/d does not have these same things to condition builds in general?
>
> If you are getting that wrong how could you be on the correct path as far as conditions builds concerned?
I talk primarily about SD Daredevil because that's what is relevant and because unlike you I'm not a **pedant** who talks about irrelevant gold tier builds like PD. But what I talk about regarding SD Daredevil is 100% true across every thief build. Stuffing steal/swipe with loads of instant cast poison damage and confusion is unhealthy design. Making condition thief of all stripes reliant trait procs that are potent enough to brute force all of the noncondition damage weapons into effectively being condition damage weapons is unhealthy. And that's true across all weapons and all elite specializations and every condition build thief you could ever come up with and design.
Shortbow has conditions with Cluster Bomb and Choking Gas. Both of which are mediocre sources of condition damage outside of the on proc traits from Deadly Arts. Choking gas can ramp up, especially if you stack the field, but as a field with a very slow travel time as a projectile, a slow condition ramp on its own, it is really much more of a zoning weapon than a weapon for dedicated fighting.
And then you come in, like a pedant, and scream "BUT WHAT ABOUT PD THIEF?!" as if it currently has any relevance to the current meta and what is currently most effective for ranked thief right now.
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Just going to echo in here what I said in CMC's PvP balance megathread.
The problem with Condition Thief is that unlike other condition builds across the other professions, all of thief's weapon sets are 100% designed to to only be really strong from a power perspective and naturally very few of the skills have damaging conditions built into them in any way.
The way it becomes condition thief is entirely from traits, which sort of brute force it into a condition build in a way you don't really see in other classes to the degree you do on thief. Traiting so that specific skills do condition damage or augmenting their Condi damage further is one thing, a classic example is Duelist's Deception makes Mesmer Pistol Skills bleed. But condition thief only directly augments Steal, a skill that has absolutely no business doing 7.5k in poison damage and enough confusion to do 1k damage on use due to its instant nature with as little counter play possible for any skill to have. To put this into perspective a lot of people think the pistol Phantasm does too much bleed damage but not only does the mesmer have a cast animation the Phantasm has a 3s channel while it ramps up the level of damage that condition thief can do instantly. Confusing Images takes 3seconds when you include the precast to ramp up that many confusion stacks.
And a condition daredevil will do the same amount of damage as the Scepter+Pistol combo, which takes 4 seconds to complete entirely, instantly and unblockable to boot, sans about 1k power damage the mesmer will do.
And the other traits it uses tend to random proc off any skill on any weapon set. They can proc off daggers, swords, shortbow, pistols, rifles. Getting hit with a dagger 4 might be 1k poke damage in condis, or it might be 3.5k Condi bomb because Deadly Ambish proc'd, which later caused Panic Strike to proc, which caused more poison to proc.
The best course of action is to remove all the traits that put condition damage onto steal, sit down with thief and decide regarding dagger and sword "Okay this one is the dedicated condition weapon. This one is the dedicated power weapon."
And if they won't do that they need to make all the on proc traits less broad and more specific and take all the condition damage steal can be buffed with away from steal and move it into specific weapon skills.
Rather than Steal having 6 stacks of confusion, have a trait that gives Larcenous Strike 4 stacks of confusion.
Or Rather than being able to stuff Steal with 7.5k poison damage, have a trait that gives Heartseeker 3k in bleed stacks and if the target is below 50% health 4k damage in poison stacks instead.
And of course addressing Sword2+Dodge spam.
That way there's a lot more counter play to condition thief and how it does damage to you aside from just climbing into stuff it can't port to. Players would have actual skills to look out for and counter. And it's also a lot more precise and reliable for skilled thief players to land.
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Honestly I think a lot of the problem can be solved just from designing the elite specializations more carefully as a whole. You don't even need to brute force in trade offs to certain specializations, especially ones that aren't meta and don't have a place in the game.
Take Druid and Scrapper before their initial reworks and the introductions of trade offs. The thing with Druid in PvP is that by taking Druid, you are so tunnel visioned into nothing but additional healing that you will and can never do as much damage as a core ranger, let alone a soulbeast. That right there is a legitimate trade off, built into the very foundation of the specialization through it's utilities, traits, and even weapon. Scrapper before it's rework was much the same, taking Scrapper without any additional trade off defines you as having noticeably sacrificed your damage for more active mitigation and you could never do as much damage as a core engineer. Are they perfect trades off that don't power creep? Well, not necessarily but that could be solved with targeting individual traits, weapon skills, and utilities just like any other over performing specialization.
Now let's compare pre-rework scrapper to something like Holosmith. Holosmith was announced as a very high damage elite specialization that is so risky to play it's in danger of blowing itself up. This wouldn't be inherently bad design or negatively power creeping the game if by going Holosmith you inherently had less defense and sustain of a core engineer and paled in comparison to a scrapper. But look at all the stuff that doesn't just increase your damage built into holosmith; Immensely Higher sustain than core with Heat Therapy. Condition Conversion through Prismatic Converter. Additional active mitigation with both Photon Wall and Spectrum Shield, easier and higher stability uptime than scrapper. Massive Protection uptime with Hard Light Arena. All of this on top of a kit that gives excellent damage beyond was a core engineer is going to be able to do, with double melee range so it's very easy to land, and great mobility beyond what a core Engineer can do as as well when synergized with other core engineer traits and utilities.
Firebrand is basically in the Holosmith camp rather than the Druid or the Scrapper camp. I feel like the people who designed Firebrand initially looked at it like "Well Dragon Hunter really boosts your power damage in PvE. But they don't have an option for either Condition Damage or Healing Support or Party Quickness so let's have Firebrand do all of that." and here we are. Similar problem with Mirage. Yeah it's supposed to be an evasive condition skirmisher, and it does becomes that, but why does it also have all this -20% condition duration on it? And all this protection uptime?
A lot of problems with builds right now can be solved by making them a lot more focused in what they are supposed to do. More similar in design to things such as Druid, DH, OG Scrapper, away from things such as Mirage, OG and pre-trade off Chrono, Firebrand, Holosmith, and Soulbeast that just sort of do a whole lot of everything.
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> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:
> Game was released 7 years ago. Some people still have trouble realizing the most painfully obvious mechanic.
>
> 1 - Clones either don't move, if ranged, or run in a pattern if melee.
> 2 - Clones only use autoattack
> 3 - Clones don't have the same boons
> 4 - Clones don't have food effect (if wvw)
> 5 - Clones don't have trait effects icon.
> 6 - Clones don't have signets equipped
> 7 - Clones don't stealth and don't teleport.
> 8 - Clones don't have the same hp.
>
Clones also have a very significant pause between autoattacks normal memsers won't have.
Edit Beaten by @"Gryxis.6950"
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> @"Falan.1839" said:
> Since you don't mention who is supposedly was forced to leave the discord due to attempted bullying I can't really be sure, but if it is the person who I have in mind: That guy has a very long history of wintrading, stealing gold from accounts he got shared, catfishing, insulting, randomly asking girls for nudes, and a lot of other inappropriate behaviour. So if he got a reception like you describe, there are a lot of reasons for it.
>
> Oh and thanks for the corrections, as you might have noticed, or maybe haven't, I am not a native speaker of English, so equating language proficiency with intelligence is, as you might put it, "literally a fallacy lmao".
>
> I will now leave you to your intellectual brilliance and immaculate argumentation, so you can continue to derail this thread without me, since I have more important things to do.
Wow what in the world happened in the discord?
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> @"Grimjack.8130" said:
> People saying staff thief isn't meta, yikes. Double Staff Thief is meta, and it has been since the changes.
Staff Staff Daredevil is about as degenerate as it gets.
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> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > This is like complaining that there are no good power thief builds that don't use improvisation and therefore they can't be nerfed.
> >
> > Dodge while stunned is nonsense. Even from a Mirage vs. Mirage perspective. Consider a very likely scenario;
> >
> > I engage another mirage in a fight. He casts Magic Bullet. I completely dodge his Magic Bullet. I cast Magic Bullet and hit him. He dodges while stunned negating any advantage I could have gained despite me landing a skill.
> >
> > Do you not see anything wrong with this exchange? Despite me having two better plays, completely dodging his attack and also landing my own, we are still 100% completely even in terms of fight momentum. I gain zero advantage despite superior reaction and prediction. I don't even force a cooldown like blink. I have a similar exchange against a warrior and he feels threatened I can force him to use a Shake It Off which massive ly swings the fight in my favor as it should. That's why dodge on stun is fundamentally unhealthy.
> If you play better, you don't land magic bullet before make him burn his evade on other skill like scepter 3, sword 2 etc... Particulary considering they will have the mirror effect 2 sec after the first dodge.
> Even if he dodge during the bullet CC, a dodge duration didn't cover all the CC so he is much likely to use his second dodge or to be chained after the first dodge.
> Now as long as you face opponent that will bait you and load skill that can"t be predicted, it's another problem. (Basically, magic bullet can be anticipated and evaded even with no mirage cloak.)
> At least, a duel versus a condi mirage is way more about who use his condiclear at the right time than who evade at the right time considering this build is based on killing slowly by clone pressure more than with pistol burst who can be nullify in 1 clic.
> There is a reason there isn't viable core build since everytime. (Even during hellseth vanilla, he had to be babysited by his team to make it viable.) so it seems that even by being "spoiled rotten when it comes to survival options" it's not enough to make it work...
The point isn't that I struggle with Mirage vs Mirage. I don't and I don't need you lecturing me. I'm more than aware of how much you need to account for Mirage Cloak. The point is to show how _fundamentally wrong_ dodging while stunned is in that it will take an exchange of blows where there should without a doubt be a person with a _clear advantage_ and a _clear disadvantage_ because of how the exchange played out and effectively _nullify_ all of that and put them on more or less equal footing. That's fundamentally bad competitive design.
And you're so hung up on one thing I called problematic about Mirage as if it didn't also come with a laundry list of severe nerfs for the other professions and elite specializations too.
Right now every profession and every specialization has things that should be nerfed, things that should be buffed, and things that should be completely reworked from the ground up. That includes mesmer. That includes mirage.
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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said :
> > > > Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.
> > >
> > > > @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said :
> > > > : Evade while CCed is unfair.
> > >
> > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said :
> > > > - Mirage (Their Condi application and power are fine, but their ability to produce an absurd amount of visual noise and bypass being CC'd through their dodge needs to stop. Give them clones or the ability to break though cc on dodge, not both)
> > >
> > > Again where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).
> > >
> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said :
> > > > Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.
> > > Damage on dodge who can be rupted, blocked with obvious animation and max 4k damage (average 2k5.) often on the form of damage over time seems finer than what exist on someone else.
> > >
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said :
> > > > > > If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.
> > > > > In that case I demand to have ambush on shatter instead of on evade then we can talk about no counterpart.
> > > > I would actually welcome that change if clones only ambushed by using shatter command. IT gives the Mirage unique shatters and a trade off from core mesmer.
> > > > Put ambush attacks with bonus effects on shatters and remove infinite horizon from the game all together. Clone ambush attacks are now balanced by shatter cooldowns
> > > > This is PROBABLY how it should have been from the get go.
> > > > Mirage cloak shouldnt be doing so much when comboed with a trait like IH while providing freedome to cast without interruption.
> > > I'm not sure you imagine the survival buff of not having to evade to do damage and the obvious "mesmer op unkillable" post who will come with this change.
> > > And sorry but this is a gameplay change suggestion as opposed to a counterpart to highlight that I dunno why you biased your necro comparison while mixing the two when comparing to mesmer.
> > > Not to say that shatter will provide more overall ambush than current dodge uptime can...
> > >
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > I've played plenty of power mesmer, both core and mirage. Losing Mirage Cloak while CC'd isn't going to break Mirage. Mesmer is pretty spoiled for stunbreak options between Blink and Signet of Midnight. And even plenty of nonstunbreak options like Phase Retreat, Jaunt and Illusionary Ambush to move you out of danger while stunned and even things like F3 and F4, Mantra of Distraction can save you if you end up stunned.
> > > >
> > > > False Oasis is just a biiiit too good of a heal for the sheer utility of it. It can be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak making it nearly impossible to interrupt, which is bad enough. But it grants both an evade through a mirror and enough vigor to get a bar of endurance after the 5 seconds the heal spends ticking. So using mirage Cloak isn't even a real investment of resources to ensure the heal happens. Shave a bit of the healing off because it is a bit too potent for all it's utility, 15% to 20%. Extend the cast time so everyone has an opportunity to interrupt it even with Mirage Cloak. It'd still be an amazing healing skill.
> > > >
> > > > Dodge while stunned and Elusive Mind are fundamentally toxic interactions. And losing Dodge while stunned won't dumpster mirage like losing Illusionary Persona did for Chrono.
> > > I don't know that now power mesmer use staff, didn't see that since vanilla shatter.
> > > List me the class heal who can be rupt without be covered.
> > > Again, and for the moment nobody answer me :
> > > Where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).
> > > Once you prove me that someone can perform with this, we can talk about reworking mirage cloak.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > This is like complaining that there are no good power thief builds that don't use improvisation and therefore they can't be nerfed.
> >
> > Dodge while stunned is nonsense. Even from a Mirage vs. Mirage perspective. Consider a very likely scenario;
> >
> > I engage another mirage in a fight. He casts Magic Bullet. I completely dodge his Magic Bullet. I cast Magic Bullet and hit him. He dodges while stunned negating any advantage I could have gained despite me landing a skill.
> >
> > Do you not see anything wrong with this exchange? Despite me having two better plays, completely dodging his attack and also landing my own, we are still 100% completely even in terms of fight momentum. I gain zero advantage despite superior reaction and prediction. I don't even force a cooldown like blink. I have a similar exchange against a warrior and he feels threatened I can force him to use a Shake It Off which massive ly swings the fight in my favor as it should. That's why dodge on stun is fundamentally unhealthy.
>
> now consider this scenario, I land magic bullet on mirage, then pistol 4, he dodges half of the ability so he takes half of the damage.
> I dodged his bullet, so I can los the channel, or use my own abilities to counter pressure.
"What if I pwnd him afterwards?" doesn't counter a very clear example of how Mirage Cloak artificially compresses skill cap by negating the results of superior play in a way that is fundamentally unacceptable even in likely Mirage vs. Mirage scenarios.
> Other classes have more CC removing tools or/and access to stability, I am actually yet to make soulbeast stunned in 1v1.
> And dont even get me started on holo with their corona + stability pot + block + invuln + potentially rampage.
>
"But what about x op class?" Doesnt justify unhealthy aspects of other classes. Holosmith deserves a ton of nerfs and I posted a list of what I think they should be earlier in the thread.
And both mesmer and mirage are absolutely spoiled rotten when it comes to survival options if they happen to get CC'd. That's not even remotely an issue.
-
> @"viquing.8254" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said :
> > Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.
>
> > @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said :
> > : Evade while CCed is unfair.
>
> > @"Lilyanna.9361" said :
> > - Mirage (Their Condi application and power are fine, but their ability to produce an absurd amount of visual noise and bypass being CC'd through their dodge needs to stop. Give them clones or the ability to break though cc on dodge, not both)
>
> Again where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).
>
> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said :
> > Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.
> Damage on dodge who can be rupted, blocked with obvious animation and max 4k damage (average 2k5.) often on the form of damage over time seems finer than what exist on someone else.
>
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said :
> > > > If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.
> > > In that case I demand to have ambush on shatter instead of on evade then we can talk about no counterpart.
> > I would actually welcome that change if clones only ambushed by using shatter command. IT gives the Mirage unique shatters and a trade off from core mesmer.
> > Put ambush attacks with bonus effects on shatters and remove infinite horizon from the game all together. Clone ambush attacks are now balanced by shatter cooldowns
> > This is PROBABLY how it should have been from the get go.
> > Mirage cloak shouldnt be doing so much when comboed with a trait like IH while providing freedome to cast without interruption.
> I'm not sure you imagine the survival buff of not having to evade to do damage and the obvious "mesmer op unkillable" post who will come with this change.
> And sorry but this is a gameplay change suggestion as opposed to a counterpart to highlight that I dunno why you biased your necro comparison while mixing the two when comparing to mesmer.
> Not to say that shatter will provide more overall ambush than current dodge uptime can...
>
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > I've played plenty of power mesmer, both core and mirage. Losing Mirage Cloak while CC'd isn't going to break Mirage. Mesmer is pretty spoiled for stunbreak options between Blink and Signet of Midnight. And even plenty of nonstunbreak options like Phase Retreat, Jaunt and Illusionary Ambush to move you out of danger while stunned and even things like F3 and F4, Mantra of Distraction can save you if you end up stunned.
> >
> > False Oasis is just a biiiit too good of a heal for the sheer utility of it. It can be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak making it nearly impossible to interrupt, which is bad enough. But it grants both an evade through a mirror and enough vigor to get a bar of endurance after the 5 seconds the heal spends ticking. So using mirage Cloak isn't even a real investment of resources to ensure the heal happens. Shave a bit of the healing off because it is a bit too potent for all it's utility, 15% to 20%. Extend the cast time so everyone has an opportunity to interrupt it even with Mirage Cloak. It'd still be an amazing healing skill.
> >
> > Dodge while stunned and Elusive Mind are fundamentally toxic interactions. And losing Dodge while stunned won't dumpster mirage like losing Illusionary Persona did for Chrono.
> I don't know that now power mesmer use staff, didn't see that since vanilla shatter.
> List me the class heal who can be rupt without be covered.
> Again, and for the moment nobody answer me :
> Where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).
> Once you prove me that someone can perform with this, we can talk about reworking mirage cloak.
>
>
>
>
This is like complaining that there are no good power thief builds that don't use improvisation and therefore they can't be nerfed.
Dodge while stunned is nonsense. Even from a Mirage vs. Mirage perspective. Consider a very likely scenario;
I engage another mirage in a fight. He casts Magic Bullet. I completely dodge his Magic Bullet. I cast Magic Bullet and hit him. He dodges while stunned negating any advantage I could have gained despite me landing a skill.
Do you not see anything wrong with this exchange? Despite me having two better plays, completely dodging his attack and also landing my own, we are still 100% completely even in terms of fight momentum. I gain zero advantage despite superior reaction and prediction. I don't even force a cooldown like blink. I have a similar exchange against a warrior and he feels threatened I can force him to use a Shake It Off which massive ly swings the fight in my favor as it should. That's why dodge on stun is fundamentally unhealthy.
-
> @"Greyjoy.5167" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Greyjoy.5167" said:
> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > #### Holosmith
> > > >
> > > > ##### Traits/Utilities/Healing Skills/Elites
> > > >
> > > > 1. **Healing Turret's** cast time needs to be increased to 1s _minimum_. 3/4s base with perma quickness is basically impossible to reactively interrupt. Having frequent access to stab coupled with an extremely powerful, reliable heal provides Holosmiths a very easy way to consistently top themselves off. This should be looked at.
> > > > 2. **Lock On** (the reveal trait) should not be DOUBLE proc 12s reveal on a 25s cd that gives fury and applies 20 stacks of vuln.
> > > > 3. **Kinetic Battery** needs to have it's quickness and super speed duration reduced to 3 seconds and increase the maximum stacks to 10 so that it takes Holos 14 seconds to cycle this trait rather than 7 seconds.
> > > > 4. **Heat Therapy** needs it's healing cut to 1/3 of it's current value (from 65 health per unit of heat lost to 22). You nerfed Rugged Growth (another minor trait) on ranger because it was healing around 600 hps on MENDERS amulet while we had protection.
> > > > - Heat Therapy provides a constant 652 healing per SECOND while at max stacks and causes Vent Exhaust to heal for 800 health every time they dodge. Keep in mind, this insane healing does not require ANY healing power investment asides from the (negligible) amount received from Leadership Runes.
> > > > - In other words, with permanent vigor and Heat Therapy, a Holo can heal up to 9000 health every 10 seconds (6520 passively through Heat Therapy, dodging 3x = 2400 healing with Vent Exhaust).
> > > > - This does NOT include healing from Healing Turret. The health regen on Tools Holo is absolutely insane. It's literally more than a warrior's Healing Signet + max stacks of Adrenal Health (the latter of which requires the warrior to land their burst skills) which only heal for a combined 743 hps in comparison.
> > > > 5. **Invigorating Speed** should give 3 seconds of vigor when gaining swiftness on a 10 second ICD. In it's current state, it gives Holos permanent vigor with very little investment.
> > > > 6. **Toss Elixir S** needs it's stealth duration reduced to 3 seconds. The current iteration gives the Holos a LONG 6 second stealth every 30 seconds that is almost impossible to prevent. This single toolbelt skill lets them reset extremely frequently.
> > > > 7. **Elixir U** needs it's cooldown increased from 40s base to 50s.
> > > > 8. **Prime Light Beam** needs a louder sound cue and needs to have the animation cancel bug fixed (the beam animation shows but doesn't do damage).
> > > >
> > > > ##### Photon Forge
> > > >
> > > > 1. **Holo Leap** needs it's cooldown increased to 4 seconds. Spamming this ability gives the Holo incredible amounts of mobility and damage on a short, 2 second cooldown leap finisher. It moves them 450 range on a 2s cd. In 10 seconds, this enables the Holo to move 2250 range on top of their already (near permanent) super speed uptime with Kinetic Battery.
> > > > 2. **Corona Burst** should apply 2 stacks of stab on the initial pulse with 3 targets max. Currently, it is 1 stack per target hit (max 5) on each pulse. This single skill can give the Holo up to 10 stacks of stability for 4 seconds every 6 seconds and requires 2 defensive skills to avoid.
> > > > 3. The fact that a Holo can transform and still retain access to ALL of their utilities/toolbelt skills/healing/elite is very strong but disabling them or even just the toolbelt skills might be too much(?).
> > > > 4. **Light Strike -> Bright Slash -> Flash Cutter** need their ranges reduced from 240 to 130. They are nearly twice as long as the ranges of (every?) auto attack chain in the game on top of the fact that they can out-trade nearly everything in melee range with them as well.
> > > >
> > > > ##### Weapons
> > > >
> > > > 1. **Hip Shot** needs to have a 1s cast time up from .84s. This skill is a laser beam when the Holo has quickness (which means all the time) and the cast time is so quick that literally tracks a target that entered stealth for 2-3 shots.
> > > > 2. **Net Shot's** immobilize should be reduced to 1 second and the cast time increased to 1/2 seconds.
> > > > 3. **Blunderbuss** needs a longer cast time.
> > > > 4. **Overcharged Shot** needs a longer windup and animation similar to a ranger's Point Blank Shot.
> > >
> > > Bruh you are delusional.
> > > Pick 1-2 of what you proposed and its gonna be fine.
> >
> > All of these can drop at once and Holosmith, both rifle and Prot Holo, would still be an A-B tier build for ranked.
>
> 3/4 of these changes are targeted core, not holo.
A lot of stuff about core engineer is over powered and unjustifiable. Every class has dealt with nerfs to core aspects despite the elite specialization over performing. Heck reasonably balanced or under powered builds getting caught in crossfire because they shared aspects with other overpowered builds have been happening since before elite specializations were ever a thing. Core elements have never been off limits for nerfing.
The dirty little secret about core engineer is that it has some of if not the best traits and utilities in the game, alongside traits that give outrageously good sustain, cleansing, damage buffs, and certainly one of if not the most consistently useful and high HPS healing skill in the game in the form of Healing Turret. But what holds it back is that engineer is that aside from Rifle, they just don't have good options for weapon including the kits. And in many ways engineers designed expecting you to take at least one kit and none of the kits are complete full weapon kits the way other classes have. They might have 1-2, maybe 3 really good skills but they're never a complete package with a clear set of self synergy and a strategy.
First obvious issue is that all of the kits are weirdly and anachronistically indecisive about whether they are power or condition based. As a warrior if you want to play power you have greatsword, and you have axe. If you want to play condi you play longbow. If you want to be hybrid you have sword. Compare Warrior Greatsword to any of the engineer kits. You obviously have the autoattack which is solid dps, you have the 2 skill which is a massive damage dealing ability. The three skill is an on demand evade on a low cooldown. The four skill is a ranged cripple. The five skill is a gap closer. It's an excellent kit overall. The only thing it doesn't have is a way to stun people into your primary damage dealing ability, but there are utilities and other weapon kits that can help you do that.
The only core engineer kit that's on that level of wellroundedness is rife. Look at pistol+pistol. The most you have for active defenses is Static Shock's blind and Glue Shot and nothing to help you position or kite. That's a weapon set where glue shot could definitely use a leap back/evade. The kit is extremely single-minded and inflexible in it's approach. Now you could go Pistol+Shield and shield is a good offhand but it leaves you without a good option for a high damage skillshot losing flamethrower. Whereas other professions like Warrior can go Axe+Shield, or mesmer can go Scepter+Torch, or Elementalist Scepter+Focus, or guardian with Sword+Focus and have both useful defenses and still have good primary damaging skills on top of the utility and capacity to set up bursts provided by the offhand.
And that's not even a kit. Bomb Kit and Grendade kit both have that same level of single mindedness with no quality of life just like pistol+pistol has but both kits are also oddly conflicted on whether they want to be power or condition damage based and the way the deal damage, either through100% point blank AOE or 100% ground targeted ranged attacks isn't ideal in the slightest. Tool Kit has excellent utility on the 4-5 but you'll never kill anyone with the 1,2,3 skills or even really soften them up for a real burst with a different weapon set or kit. Elixir Gun is one of the better ones but it's also confused as most of the kit revolves around condition damage except it's highest damage skill which is 100% power. Elixir Gun mostly revolves around conditions most of it's skills, but it's highest damage attack is 100% power based.
It's no coincidence that when Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire dropped and both elite specializations gave Scrapper and Holosmith weapon sets that are actually a lot more well rounded and complete compared to what was previously possible both specializations, Hammer and Photon Forge, engineers were able to use their new weapon kits alongside the inherent excellency of it's core traitlines to be absolutely top of the line builds for the expansions. And Scrapper would have done better during Path of Fire prior to the initial rework that made it god tier if not for Holosmith outshining it.
You refine engineer kits to be more well rounded, with more self synergy, and away from halfbaked 2012 design philosphy you're going to massively improve what core engineer is capable of regardless of a handful of nerfs that do deserve to happen to some utilities and traits and even rifle.
So yes. There are aspects of core engineer that deserve to be nerfed, and just because the class has other issues impacting it's performance doesn't mean it those massively over tuned aspects don't deserve to be nerfed. And dealing with holosmith including nerfing overtuned aspects of core engineer is more important and impacts more players positively than letting holosmith run wild, and both core and holosmith nerfs are needed to get it inline.
-
> @"Vagrant.7206" said:
> > @"Vancho.8750" said:
> > I'm more annoyed by old map JPs which are mostly pixel chasing and since when you are in combat you run slower you also jump less distance so you need swiftness to make the jump, but if you have slowing condition you are stuck on the ground so the whole point of using the JP is lost. On another hand some classes can just skip the jp and teleport. So if you are on boots on the ground build just take the long path.
>
> Yeah, I don't mind LOS -- but the jumping puzzle shenanigans mid combat are possibly the most annoying stalling techniques in the history of competitive play.
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Alatar.7364" said:
> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
> >
> > > Thief:
> > > Nuke condition thief into the ground.
> > > Nuke Staff/Staff thief into the ground.
> > > Steal: All damaging traits that feed into steal such as Mug, Serpent's Touch, Bewildering Ambush, should be removed and replaced with something else.
> > > Infiltrator's Strike: Reduce range to 600.
> > > Escapist's Fortitude: Internal Cooldown increased to 5 seconds.
> > > Long Term Goal: Condition thief should be reworked to no longer revolving around a convoluted mess of trait procs that all intertwine with each other and into specific weapon tool kits and specific skill shots it has to run with clear strengths and weaknesses. Even[ a year later](
" a year later"), this video is still relevant.> > > Lotus Training should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhaps it should provide a +20% increased condition damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > Bounding Dodge should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhap it should provide a +20% increased power damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > Long Term Goal: Rework Deadeye towards a more Exodia Deck playstyle that sets up an automatic win condition overtime rather than the immense range burster that can dump 15k damage in under a second on engagement.
> >
> > > Warrior
> > > Give Arcing Slice tiered damage like every other burst skill.
> > > Revenge Counter returns Full Counter to it's prenerf damage.
> > > Long term goal: Rework Spellbreaker from being just a power crept version of warrior into a specialization that wins by removing what other classes do well, such as allowing spellbreakers to become extremely anti-boon, or anti-condi, or anti ranged ect ect. Both by reworking traits and buffing the meditation skills.
> > >
> >
> > You wanna take away the functionality of DrDs dodges because they do stuff but leave Warriors unblockable-boon-granting 6k Reckless Dodge in tact?
> > Reducing IS to 600 would straight away delete S/D, both condi and power as it did delete D/P. Also you may not realize how very vital Mug is for power thief, both the Heal and to lesser extent the dmg, if anything Mug encourages more skilled gameplay, so you don't waste the heal of Mug as some Thieves just blow Steal right away and thats a free win. I realize you said _"replace it"_ but that would have to be a truly uniquely viable replacement.
>
> I'm pretty sure the deletion of thief as a whole is the posters agenda as those thief nerfs are ridiculous and are clearly not thought out and are conceived simply out of a dislike for the class in general.
Everyone recognizes Condi Daredevil is over performing right now. Everyone sees how extremely degenerate Staff/Staff is.
Things such as reducing Infiltrators Strike's range has been echoed by players such as Vallun, who I doubt is trying to destroy thieves because he doesn't like them.
Trimming stuff like Mug, Serpents Touch, Bewildering Ambush, come from a personal philosophy that instant cast animationless damage, even condition damage, just shouldn't exist and should be culled. And I include mesmer stuff such as Mantra of Pain, Jaunt.
The problem with Condition Thief is that unlike other condition builds, all of thief's weapon sets are really only designed to be really strong from a power perspective and naturally very few of the skills have damaging conditions built into them. The way it becomes condition thief is entirely from traits. And traiting so that specific skills do condition damage or augmenting their Condi damage further is one thing. But condition thief only directly augments Steal, a skill that has absolutely no business doing 9k in poison damage and enough confusion to do 1.2k damage on use due to its instant nature with as little counter play as possible. To put this into perspective a lot of people think the pistol Phantasm does too much bleed damage but not only does the mesmer have a cast animation the Phantasm has a 3s channel while it ramps up the level of damage that condition thief can do instantly. Confusing Images takes 3seconds when you include the precast to ramp up that many confusion stacks.
And the other traits it uses tend to random proc off any skill on any weapon set. They can proc off daggers, swords, shortbow, pistols, rifles. Getting hit with a dagger 4 might be 1k poke damage in condis, or it might be 4k Condi bomb because a trait procd causing all of them to proc because they all feed into each other.
Arenanet needs to sit down with thief and decide regarding dagger and sword "Okay this one is the dedicated condition weapon. This one is the dedicated power weapon."
And if they won't do that they need to make all the on proc traits less broad and more specific and take all the condition damage steal can be buffed with away from steal and move it into specific weapon skills.
Rather than Steal having 6 stacks of confusion, have a trait that gives Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike 2 stacks of confusion.
Rather than being able to stuff Steal with 9k poison damage, have a trait that gives Heartseeker 4k in bleed stacks and if the target is below 50% health 6k damage in poison stacks instead.
And of course addressing Sword2+Dodge spam.
That way there's a lot more counter play to condition thief and how it does damage to you aside from just climbing into stuff it can't port to. Players would have actual skills to look out for and counter. And it's also a lot more precise and reliable for skilled thief players to land.
-
> @"Heartpains.7312" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
> >
> > Mesmer
> > Cry of Frustration Cooldown reduced to 16 seconds to make condition shatter traits more worth taking over deceptive evasion.
> > Mantra of Pain: Rather than immediately pulsing damage, this ability gives a ticking time bomb effect similar to pulmonary impact that will pulse a bit of damage after 3 seconds, but can be dodged and blocked.
> > Illusion of Life: Increase cast time to 2s, give it an obvious tell akin to Signet of Mercy.
> > Illusionary Counter (Scepter 2): This ability now fires a projectile to deal it's damage rather than immediately applying from range.
> > Deceptive Evasion: Clones from the Mirage specialization no longer spawn doing their ambush attack.
> > Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.
> > False Oasis: Cast time of this skill has been increased to 1.25 seconds, healing reduced by 15%.
> > Chaos Vortex: Condition duration from staff clone ambushes has been reduced by 50%.
> > Long term goal: Decompress power mesmer's damage output so that it can't be overlapped in under a second to one shot players. Compress Condition mesmer's output so that it requires a number of both shatter and weapon skills to land for it to get it's damage rather than bombarding players with an endless assault of clone auto attacks.
> > Long term goal: Unfuck Chronomancer. Seriously, losing Distortion for Continuum Split was enough, losing Illusionary Person on top of it was over kill.
> >
>
> I think you should start playing power mesmer instead of condi, the Mirage Cloak change you want can NEVER go through anymore, and False Oasis changes says you are playing condi as well, seriously go play power mesmer and see things clearly lol, I do not want to be playing core mesmer because both chrono and mirage are screwed.
>
> Or honestly just try to play without being able to use Mirage Cloak while cc'd (aka just don't use it), include immobilize, really try it, specially as power, it is gonna be so much fun for you.
>
> I didn't include wvw thieves that plays stabby thief, some play it as DE and some as core and some as DD, they will stab you and you will die instantly don't worry.
>
> Some classes have high up time of stability, so don't go around and try to nerf mirage cloak like that, and the heal nerf also unacceptable, lots of the mesmer changes you want to make for mesmers are unacceptable.
I've played plenty of power mesmer, both core and mirage. Losing Mirage Cloak while CC'd isn't going to break Mirage. Mesmer is pretty spoiled for stunbreak options between Blink and Signet of Midnight. And even plenty of nonstunbreak options like Phase Retreat, Jaunt and Illusionary Ambush to move you out of danger while stunned and even things like F3 and F4, Mantra of Distraction can save you if you end up stunned.
False Oasis is just a biiiit too good of a heal for the sheer utility of it. It can be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak making it nearly impossible to interrupt, which is bad enough. But it grants both an evade through a mirror and enough vigor to get a bar of endurance after the 5 seconds the heal spends ticking. So using mirage Cloak isn't even a real investment of resources to ensure the heal happens. Shave a bit of the healing off because it is a bit too potent for all it's utility, 15% to 20%. Extend the cast time so everyone has an opportunity to interrupt it even with Mirage Cloak. It'd still be an amazing healing skill.
Dodge while stunned and Elusive Mind are fundamentally toxic interactions. And losing Dodge while stunned won't dumpster mirage like losing Illusionary Persona did for Chrono.
-
> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:
> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thief:
> > > > > > Nuke condition thief into the ground.
> > > > > > Nuke Staff/Staff thief into the ground.
> > > > > > Steal: All damaging traits that feed into steal such as Mug, Serpent's Touch, Bewildering Ambush, should be removed and replaced with something else.
> > > > > > Infiltrator's Strike: Reduce range to 600.
> > > > > > Escapist's Fortitude: Internal Cooldown increased to 5 seconds.
> > > > > > Long Term Goal: Condition thief should be reworked to no longer revolving around a convoluted mess of trait procs that all intertwine with each other and into specific weapon tool kits and specific skill shots it has to run with clear strengths and weaknesses. Even[ a year later](
" a year later"), this video is still relevant.> > > > > > Lotus Training should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhaps it should provide a +20% increased condition damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > > > > Bounding Dodge should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhap it should provide a +20% increased power damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > > > > Long Term Goal: Rework Deadeye towards a more Exodia Deck playstyle that sets up an automatic win condition overtime rather than the immense range burster that can dump 15k damage in under a second on engagement.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Warrior
> > > > > > Give Arcing Slice tiered damage like every other burst skill.
> > > > > > Revenge Counter returns Full Counter to it's prenerf damage.
> > > > > > Long term goal: Rework Spellbreaker from being just a power crept version of warrior into a specialization that wins by removing what other classes do well, such as allowing spellbreakers to become extremely anti-boon, or anti-condi, or anti ranged ect ect. Both by reworking traits and buffing the meditation skills.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You wanna take away the functionality of DrDs dodges because they do stuff but leave Warriors unblockable-boon-granting 6k Reckless Dodge in tact?
> > > > > Reducing IS to 600 would straight away delete S/D, both condi and power as it did delete D/P. Also you may not realize how very vital Mug is for power thief, both the Heal and to lesser extent the dmg, if anything Mug encourages more skilled gameplay, so you don't waste the heal of Mug as some Thieves just blow Steal right away and thats a free win. I realize you said _"replace it"_ but that would have to be a truly uniquely viable replacement.
> > > >
> > > > Good point. That one slipped my mind despite just how much that annoys me.
> > > >
> > > > Reckless Dodge: Reduce damage by 75%. Removed unblockable.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding mug, I fundamentally disagree on a baseline philosophical level on instant cast animation free damage being a thing that is allowed to even exist in the game. Hence why I recommend other stuff, like Mantra of Pain and Elementalist Static Discharge being changed to time bomb effects that can be blocked and evaded.
> > >
> > > Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.
> >
> > I mean if you want to be technical it takes .25s for your ambush attack to become available after dodging. The end result is that Axe is the only ambush attack that can theoretically be 100% covered by mirage cloak. Other ambush attacks such as sword, staff, and scepter leave the mirage vulnerable to attack while casting the ambush attack for .5s or longer.
>
> Don't consider a flat boost, what should these GM traits really do?
Not provide attacks that are 100% built into the dodge roll itself at the very least. Even mirage, as much as most people will call it cancer, leaves itself semi vulnerable while casting ambush attacks and most of it's ambush attacks don't do as much damage as the Daredevil grandmaster dodge trait. The only one that's as good is the staff and that's if you hit with 2 additional clones or more. And you're fully vulnerable for .5s while casting Chaos Vortex.
I have seen 7k bounding dodge crits from staff/staff perma dodge thieves. And at that point you are outpacing realistic ambush attack damage compared to mirage even with staff landing a 3x clone ambush.
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> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
> > >
> > > > Thief:
> > > > Nuke condition thief into the ground.
> > > > Nuke Staff/Staff thief into the ground.
> > > > Steal: All damaging traits that feed into steal such as Mug, Serpent's Touch, Bewildering Ambush, should be removed and replaced with something else.
> > > > Infiltrator's Strike: Reduce range to 600.
> > > > Escapist's Fortitude: Internal Cooldown increased to 5 seconds.
> > > > Long Term Goal: Condition thief should be reworked to no longer revolving around a convoluted mess of trait procs that all intertwine with each other and into specific weapon tool kits and specific skill shots it has to run with clear strengths and weaknesses. Even[ a year later](
" a year later"), this video is still relevant.> > > > Lotus Training should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhaps it should provide a +20% increased condition damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > > Bounding Dodge should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhap it should provide a +20% increased power damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > > > Long Term Goal: Rework Deadeye towards a more Exodia Deck playstyle that sets up an automatic win condition overtime rather than the immense range burster that can dump 15k damage in under a second on engagement.
> > >
> > > > Warrior
> > > > Give Arcing Slice tiered damage like every other burst skill.
> > > > Revenge Counter returns Full Counter to it's prenerf damage.
> > > > Long term goal: Rework Spellbreaker from being just a power crept version of warrior into a specialization that wins by removing what other classes do well, such as allowing spellbreakers to become extremely anti-boon, or anti-condi, or anti ranged ect ect. Both by reworking traits and buffing the meditation skills.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You wanna take away the functionality of DrDs dodges because they do stuff but leave Warriors unblockable-boon-granting 6k Reckless Dodge in tact?
> > > Reducing IS to 600 would straight away delete S/D, both condi and power as it did delete D/P. Also you may not realize how very vital Mug is for power thief, both the Heal and to lesser extent the dmg, if anything Mug encourages more skilled gameplay, so you don't waste the heal of Mug as some Thieves just blow Steal right away and thats a free win. I realize you said _"replace it"_ but that would have to be a truly uniquely viable replacement.
> >
> > Good point. That one slipped my mind despite just how much that annoys me.
> >
> > Reckless Dodge: Reduce damage by 75%. Removed unblockable.
> >
> > Regarding mug, I fundamentally disagree on a baseline philosophical level on instant cast animation free damage being a thing that is allowed to even exist in the game. Hence why I recommend other stuff, like Mantra of Pain and Elementalist Static Discharge being changed to time bomb effects that can be blocked and evaded.
>
> Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.
I mean if you want to be technical it takes .25s for your ambush attack to become available after dodging. The end result is that Axe is the only ambush attack that can theoretically be 100% covered by mirage cloak. Other ambush attacks such as sword, staff, and scepter leave the mirage vulnerable to attack while casting the ambush attack for .5s or longer.
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> @"Alatar.7364" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
>
> > Thief:
> > Nuke condition thief into the ground.
> > Nuke Staff/Staff thief into the ground.
> > Steal: All damaging traits that feed into steal such as Mug, Serpent's Touch, Bewildering Ambush, should be removed and replaced with something else.
> > Infiltrator's Strike: Reduce range to 600.
> > Escapist's Fortitude: Internal Cooldown increased to 5 seconds.
> > Long Term Goal: Condition thief should be reworked to no longer revolving around a convoluted mess of trait procs that all intertwine with each other and into specific weapon tool kits and specific skill shots it has to run with clear strengths and weaknesses. Even[ a year later](
" a year later"), this video is still relevant.> > Lotus Training should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhaps it should provide a +20% increased condition damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > Bounding Dodge should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhap it should provide a +20% increased power damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
> > Long Term Goal: Rework Deadeye towards a more Exodia Deck playstyle that sets up an automatic win condition overtime rather than the immense range burster that can dump 15k damage in under a second on engagement.
>
> > Warrior
> > Give Arcing Slice tiered damage like every other burst skill.
> > Revenge Counter returns Full Counter to it's prenerf damage.
> > Long term goal: Rework Spellbreaker from being just a power crept version of warrior into a specialization that wins by removing what other classes do well, such as allowing spellbreakers to become extremely anti-boon, or anti-condi, or anti ranged ect ect. Both by reworking traits and buffing the meditation skills.
> >
>
> You wanna take away the functionality of DrDs dodges because they do stuff but leave Warriors unblockable-boon-granting 6k Reckless Dodge in tact?
> Reducing IS to 600 would straight away delete S/D, both condi and power as it did delete D/P. Also you may not realize how very vital Mug is for power thief, both the Heal and to lesser extent the dmg, if anything Mug encourages more skilled gameplay, so you don't waste the heal of Mug as some Thieves just blow Steal right away and thats a free win. I realize you said _"replace it"_ but that would have to be a truly uniquely viable replacement.
Good point. That one slipped my mind despite just how much that annoys me.
Reckless Dodge: Reduce damage by 75%. Removed unblockable.
Regarding mug, I fundamentally disagree on a baseline philosophical level on instant cast animation free damage being a thing that is allowed to even exist in the game. Hence why I recommend other stuff, like Mantra of Pain and Elementalist Static Discharge being changed to time bomb effects that can be blocked and evaded.
-
I thought about a long essay about the philosophy of balance and the further I went into it the more and more I realized no one would ever read it. And so I figured I'd just condense a lot of what I'd like to see immediately into small patch notes.
Mesmer
Cry of Frustration Cooldown reduced to 16 seconds to make condition shatter traits more worth taking over deceptive evasion.
Mantra of Pain: Rather than immediately pulsing damage, this ability gives a ticking time bomb effect similar to pulmonary impact that will pulse a bit of damage after 3 seconds, but can be dodged and blocked.
Illusion of Life: Increase cast time to 2s, give it an obvious tell akin to Signet of Mercy.
Illusionary Counter (Scepter 2): This ability now fires a projectile to deal it's damage rather than immediately applying from range.
Deceptive Evasion: Clones from the Mirage specialization no longer spawn doing their ambush attack.
Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.
False Oasis: Cast time of this skill has been increased to 1.25 seconds, healing reduced by 15%.
Chaos Vortex: Condition duration from staff clone ambushes has been reduced by 50%.
Long term goal: Decompress power mesmer's damage output so that it can't be overlapped in under a second to one shot players. Compress Condition mesmer's output so that it requires a number of both shatter and weapon skills to land for it to get it's damage rather than bombarding players with an endless assault of clone auto attacks.
Long term goal: Unkitten Chronomancer. Seriously, losing Distortion for Continuum Split was enough, losing Illusionary Person on top of it was over kill.
Elementalist:
Riptide: Cooldown as been increased by 2 seconds
Earthen Vortex: Cooldown has been increased by 2 seconds.
Twist of Fate: Additionally 5 second cooldown between uses.
Static Dicharge: This skill applies a ticking time bomb effect before pulsing damage similar to Pulmonary Impact but can be evaded and blocked.
Long Term Goal: Rework Scepter+Staff into being DPS team fight carry weapons with effectiveness similar to October 2019 scourge. This is a swords and sorcery RPG and the class that defines sorcery doesn't remotely provide the class fantasy of chucking huge fireballs at people for massive damage.
Long Term Goal: Make Tempest a viable but different support alternative that can compete with Firebrand while preventing it from being viable as a side noder.
Necromancer:
I'm kind of just okay with them tbh.
Engineer
Toss Elixir S: Base stealth has been reduced to 2s instead of 5s.
Healing Turret: Healing from the initial healing and the overcharge has been reduced by 30%. The water field's duration has been increased by 30%.
Photon Forge: This form no longer allows the holosmith to use their utility skills.
Photon Forge: This ability now has an 8s cooldown to enter and exit.
Heat Therapy: Has been removed and replaced with a completely different trait that does something completely different.
Prime Light Beam: This ability applies revealed to the holosmith when they begin casting it.
Purity of Purpose: 3 second internal cooldown added.
Long Term Goal: Make kits a more valid form of play with a clear purpose between them that also allows them to feel like complete weapon sets. Right now all of the kit utilities have 1-3 skills that are good and make sense but all of them struggle with being hybrized between both condi and power sets in ways no other weapon sets have to deal with as well as none of them feeling like complete weapon sets in and of themselves. If you smoothen out core engineer kits you'd radically improve the prevalence and viability of core engineer.
Long Term Goal: Make Scrapper a viable but different support alternative that can compete with Firebrand while preventing it from being viable as a side noder.
Thief:
Nuke condition thief into the ground.
Nuke Staff/Staff thief into the ground.
Steal: All damaging traits that feed into steal such as Mug, Serpent's Touch, Bewildering Ambush, should be removed and replaced with something else.
Infiltrator's Strike: Reduce range to 600.
Escapist's Fortitude: Internal Cooldown increased to 5 seconds.
Long Term Goal: Condition thief should be reworked to no longer revolving around a convoluted mess of trait procs that all intertwine with each other and into specific weapon tool kits and specific skill shots it has to run with clear strengths and weaknesses. Even[ a year later](
" a year later"), this video is still relevant.Lotus Training should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhaps it should provide a +20% increased condition damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
Bounding Dodge should no longer do damage in and of itself. Perhap it should provide a +20% increased power damage buff if you actively evade an attack.
Long Term Goal: Rework Deadeye towards a more Exodia Deck playstyle that sets up an automatic win condition overtime rather than the immense range burster that can dump 15k damage in under a second on engagement.
Ranger
Long Term Goal: Rework Druid into being a viable but different alternative to Firebrand while preventing it from being viable as a side noder.
Warrior
Give Arcing Slice tiered damage like every other burst skill.
Reckless Dodge: Reduced damage output by 75%. Remove unblockable.
Revenge Counter returns Full Counter to it's prenerf damage.
Long term goal: Rework Spellbreaker from being just a power crept version of warrior into a specialization that wins by removing what other classes do well, such as allowing spellbreakers to become extremely anti-boon, or anti-condi, or anti ranged ect ect. Both by reworking traits and buffing the meditation skills.
Guardian:
I'm kind of just okay with them tbh.
Revenant:
Inhibit Revenant's ability to chain together literally 10+ seconds of block and evade back to back with no pause.
Buff Malyx? Malyx is the only thing I find particularly interesting about revenant and I'd appreciate seeing more of it.
Long Term Goal: Ventari+Glint revenant should be a viable support different but competitive from firebrand.
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> @"Greyjoy.5167" said:
> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > #### Holosmith
> >
> > ##### Traits/Utilities/Healing Skills/Elites
> >
> > 1. **Healing Turret's** cast time needs to be increased to 1s _minimum_. 3/4s base with perma quickness is basically impossible to reactively interrupt. Having frequent access to stab coupled with an extremely powerful, reliable heal provides Holosmiths a very easy way to consistently top themselves off. This should be looked at.
> > 2. **Lock On** (the reveal trait) should not be DOUBLE proc 12s reveal on a 25s cd that gives fury and applies 20 stacks of vuln.
> > 3. **Kinetic Battery** needs to have it's quickness and super speed duration reduced to 3 seconds and increase the maximum stacks to 10 so that it takes Holos 14 seconds to cycle this trait rather than 7 seconds.
> > 4. **Heat Therapy** needs it's healing cut to 1/3 of it's current value (from 65 health per unit of heat lost to 22). You nerfed Rugged Growth (another minor trait) on ranger because it was healing around 600 hps on MENDERS amulet while we had protection.
> > - Heat Therapy provides a constant 652 healing per SECOND while at max stacks and causes Vent Exhaust to heal for 800 health every time they dodge. Keep in mind, this insane healing does not require ANY healing power investment asides from the (negligible) amount received from Leadership Runes.
> > - In other words, with permanent vigor and Heat Therapy, a Holo can heal up to 9000 health every 10 seconds (6520 passively through Heat Therapy, dodging 3x = 2400 healing with Vent Exhaust).
> > - This does NOT include healing from Healing Turret. The health regen on Tools Holo is absolutely insane. It's literally more than a warrior's Healing Signet + max stacks of Adrenal Health (the latter of which requires the warrior to land their burst skills) which only heal for a combined 743 hps in comparison.
> > 5. **Invigorating Speed** should give 3 seconds of vigor when gaining swiftness on a 10 second ICD. In it's current state, it gives Holos permanent vigor with very little investment.
> > 6. **Toss Elixir S** needs it's stealth duration reduced to 3 seconds. The current iteration gives the Holos a LONG 6 second stealth every 30 seconds that is almost impossible to prevent. This single toolbelt skill lets them reset extremely frequently.
> > 7. **Elixir U** needs it's cooldown increased from 40s base to 50s.
> > 8. **Prime Light Beam** needs a louder sound cue and needs to have the animation cancel bug fixed (the beam animation shows but doesn't do damage).
> >
> > ##### Photon Forge
> >
> > 1. **Holo Leap** needs it's cooldown increased to 4 seconds. Spamming this ability gives the Holo incredible amounts of mobility and damage on a short, 2 second cooldown leap finisher. It moves them 450 range on a 2s cd. In 10 seconds, this enables the Holo to move 2250 range on top of their already (near permanent) super speed uptime with Kinetic Battery.
> > 2. **Corona Burst** should apply 2 stacks of stab on the initial pulse with 3 targets max. Currently, it is 1 stack per target hit (max 5) on each pulse. This single skill can give the Holo up to 10 stacks of stability for 4 seconds every 6 seconds and requires 2 defensive skills to avoid.
> > 3. The fact that a Holo can transform and still retain access to ALL of their utilities/toolbelt skills/healing/elite is very strong but disabling them or even just the toolbelt skills might be too much(?).
> > 4. **Light Strike -> Bright Slash -> Flash Cutter** need their ranges reduced from 240 to 130. They are nearly twice as long as the ranges of (every?) auto attack chain in the game on top of the fact that they can out-trade nearly everything in melee range with them as well.
> >
> > ##### Weapons
> >
> > 1. **Hip Shot** needs to have a 1s cast time up from .84s. This skill is a laser beam when the Holo has quickness (which means all the time) and the cast time is so quick that literally tracks a target that entered stealth for 2-3 shots.
> > 2. **Net Shot's** immobilize should be reduced to 1 second and the cast time increased to 1/2 seconds.
> > 3. **Blunderbuss** needs a longer cast time.
> > 4. **Overcharged Shot** needs a longer windup and animation similar to a ranger's Point Blank Shot.
>
> Bruh you are delusional.
> Pick 1-2 of what you proposed and its gonna be fine.
All of these can drop at once and Holosmith, both rifle and Prot Holo, would still be an A-B tier build for ranked.
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400 gems would be peachy. 600 is a lot but I'd grumble a bit but be fine. Anything past that and I'd be pretty upset. I've bought tons of bag expansions over the years. Most alts of mine will be fine with the default 2 builds. Dropping 2-4 purchases for alts I play a lot isn't too bad. And I expect to buy 10+ on my main doesn't seem that unreasonable over time. Though the idea of buying all of that all at once seems pretty steep which is probably why most players are upset.
If it's like 800+ a build template that'd be highway robbery.
Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"viquing.8254" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > Umm...
> > >
> > > Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.
> > >
> > > Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.
> >
> > Because now condimirage use sword :D.
> > 18 stacks of bleeding on a skill with a CD and a 2 time animation (phantasm cast + phantasm attack) is more than fine btw.
>
> 1 button = 18 bleeds
>
> No it's really not fine but you can keep lying to yourself. :D
18 bleeds = 9k damage on a fairly reasonable 20 second cooldown. It's more or less equivalent to guardian's Ray of Judgement in damage similar in duration as well. And while Ray of Judgement can be blocked and dodged, the full damage latches on in only .75s while Duelist takes 3 seconds to ramp up it's bleeds and can be 100% cleanses after the fact.
Rapid fire on core ranger does as much damage on half the cooldown without the 6 seconds for the bleeds applied to finally finish ticking.