mortrialus.3062
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Posts posted by mortrialus.3062
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Blind and weakness will impact the clone attacks. But they will stunbreak to perform the attacks if stunned.
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> @"RedShark.9548" said:
> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:
> > > > Why is Fire Weaver a problem anyway?
> > > > Compared to Mirage:
> > > > It evades less than Mirage.
> > >
> > > Meta fire Weaver way outpaces meta Condi mirage right now in evade uptime.
> > >
> > > 1 single block and one 0.5 second evade (Which similar to Full Counter is really just there so the counter attack goes off properly if an attack is absorbed) on the scepter 2, 8 second cooldown verses
> > >
> > > 2.75 seconds of evade every 12 seconds between Riptide and Earthen Vortex.
> > >
> > > Over the course of a fairly realistic 60 second fight a Weaver is getting 13.75 seconds of evade frames from Riptide and Earthen Vortex. Mesmers are getting 7 potential blocks and 3.5 seconds of evade frames.
> > >
> > > Illusionary Ambush is 0.75 seconds on a 35s cooldown.
> > >
> > > Twist of Fate is 1s evade on a 40s cooldown, but has the benefit of being an ammo skill. Over the course of a fairly realistic
> > >
> > > 60 second fight the mirage is getting 1.5 seconds of evade frames from IA, Weaver is getting 3 seconds from twist of fate.
> > >
> > > Now Mirage does have a built in evade on False Oasis that Weaver's don't have in their build which can be used potentially three times in a 60 second fight for 2.25 seconds of evade.
> > >
> > > Both classes have very high levels of vigor and while Weaver does have more the exact uptime on both is a bit hard to calculate while at work so I'll just say they break even at perma vigor. That's 8 vigor dodges over 60 seconds plus your 2nd endurance bar for a 9th dodge. Equalling 6.75 seconds of dodge roll evades per minute.
> > >
> > > Weaver runs energy, Mirage runs double energy so they're both procing it as much as possible, that's another 3 dodges per minute. 2.25 seconds.
> > >
> > > When you look at the totals you're looking at:
> > >
> > > Mirage: 16.5 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> > >
> > > Weaver: 25.75 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> > >
> > > Even if you assume a mirage is running a melee weapon like axe instead of scepter that's 5.25 seconds of evade frames per minute instead of 3.5.
> > >
> > > If you want to throw mesmer Distortion on there then you have to throw Obsidian Flesh on there since that's an invulnerability as well, both potentially 4 seconds on 50 second cooldowns so potentially 8 seconds of invulnerability per minute and now we're looking at:
> > >
> > > Mirage: 24.5 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> > > Weaver: 33.75 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> > >
> > > This is a pretty extreme rough estimate, assuming both classes are using their defensive options off cooldown all fight long in a way that isn't realistic, but if you're going to throw out statements like "mirage has more evades than Weaver" you should probably check what The actual meta builds are roughly capable of first. Meta Weaver decisively beats Meta Mirage in evade uptime right now.
> >
> > You would have to count also the mirrors from the trait in mirage, and SoI too, would be impossible to make 100% effective use of all that but in THEORY would be more.
> >
> > Personally i used to love 3clone shatter f4 -> SoI -> get 3clones and shatter again for 8s+ of invulnerability, and watching warrior/holo monkeys just run into me anyways while swinging at invulnerable, crying op xd.
>
> Well, adding those 8seconds to the time the previous post calculated seems quite op to me, but what do i know, im just a warrior monkey.
>
> And ontop its quite hard to tell from animations or buffs that mesmer is invuln, or how long he will remain invuln.
>
> Especially when you have to constantly find him between his clones and other pink fluff flying around the whole screen.
>
>
> Everything over half a minute of invulns and complete dmg mitigation is completely out of whack and shouldnt be possible.
There was a Traumadex clip of him that was floating around a while ago of him during a full minute of outnumbered fighting. And he was being measured and careful with his dodges, often sitting at 2 full bars of adrenaline for multiple points of the fight and between Building Momentum, Might Makes Right and Signet of Stamina he did 15 true dodge rolls in one minute. That comes to a true dodge roll every 4 seconds.
Now while Signet of Stamina is a solid choice most Spellbreakers are on Frenzy now a days so we need to calculate how much endurance he was getting from Signet of Stamina and subtract it.
Endurance typically regenerates at a rate of 5 units of endurance per second and each dodge roll costs 50 endurance. If you include the 2nd dodge you have access to at the beginning of the fight that ends up being 7 dodges in a minute of combat normally. Signet of Stamina will bump you up to 7.5 units of endurance per second, this will put you at 10 dodges over one minute if you include the initial 2nd dodge, so SoS was giving him 3 extra dodge rolls per minute. This means with just Building Momentum+Might Makes Right he's getting 12 dodge rolls per minute (Natural 7+5 MMR). And that was actual real footage in an MAT.
So that's 9 seconds of evade based on real in game observations of high end player combat in MATs.
Whirlwind Blade can be used 7 times over a minute for an additional 5 seconds of evade over a minute.
Shield block can be used three times over a minute so that's 9 seconds of evade.
Full Counter can be used 6 times over the course of a minute so that's an additional 3 seconds of evade.
Bull's Charge is a 1.25 second evade that can potentially be used 3 times over the course of a fight for an additional 3.75 seconds of evasion (This one in particular is really wonky as if the attack is aimed at an enemy the evade will end early once it reaches them, hit or no, but again like with Mirage and Weaver we're looking at Meta Specs at their most extreme theoretical output)
So Spellbreaker potentially has access to 29.75 seconds of some sort of hard mitigate whether it's block or evade that it can use over a minute of sustained combat. And that's a conservative estimate.
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> @"reikken.4961" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> >
> > Meta fire Weaver way outpaces meta Condi mirage right now in evade uptime.
> Teleports and target breaks are effectively evades. Even the most skilled player needs a nonzero amount of time to reorient and retarget the mirage.
You're comparing intangibles. Yes, condition mirage has teleports. Fire Weaver has significantly most sustain and self healing lowering the need for as much evasion and mobility and does so in a way that makes it more capable of holding a node rather than phase retreating off up a ledge somewhere which does have serious advantages but also serious downsides. Both are intangible and impossible to quantify without hard macro level data comparing the two's performance.
In a match up of hard mitigation vs hard mitigation, meta fire weaver significantly outpaces condition mirage right now. It just factually does. All I said to the guy was don't throw out nonsense statements like Mirage has more evasion uptime than Weaver and I came with facts about the amount of uptime the two builds can potentially have.
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> @"Megametzler.5729" said:
> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:
> > > > Why is Fire Weaver a problem anyway?
> > > > Compared to Mirage:
> > > > It evades less than Mirage.
> > >
> > > Meta fire Weaver way outpaces meta Condi mirage right now in evade uptime.
> > >
> > > 1 single block and one 0.5 second evade (Which similar to Full Counter is really just there so the counter attack goes off properly if an attack is absorbed) on the scepter 2, 8 second cooldown verses
> > >
> > > 2.75 seconds of evade every 12 seconds between Riptide and Earthen Vortex.
> > >
> > > Over the course of a fairly realistic 60 second fight a Weaver is getting 13.75 seconds of evade frames from Riptide and Earthen Vortex. Mesmers are getting 7 potential blocks and 3.5 seconds of evade frames.
> > >
> > > Illusionary Ambush is 0.75 seconds on a 35s cooldown.
> > >
> > > Twist of Fate is 1s evade on a 40s cooldown, but has the benefit of being an ammo skill. Over the course of a fairly realistic
> > >
> > > 60 second fight the mirage is getting 1.5 seconds of evade frames from IA, Weaver is getting 3 seconds from twist of fate.
> > >
> > > Now Mirage does have a built in evade on False Oasis that Weaver's don't have in their build which can be used potentially three times in a 60 second fight for 2.25 seconds of evade.
> > >
> > > Both classes have very high levels of vigor and while Weaver does have more the exact uptime on both is a bit hard to calculate while at work so I'll just say they break even at perma vigor. That's 8 vigor dodges over 60 seconds plus your 2nd endurance bar for a 9th dodge. Equalling 6.75 seconds of dodge roll evades per minute.
> > >
> > > Weaver runs energy, Mirage runs double energy so they're both procing it as much as possible, that's another 3 dodges per minute. 2.25 seconds.
> > >
> > > When you look at the totals you're looking at:
> > >
> > > Mirage: 16.5 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> > >
> > > Weaver: 25.75 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> > >
> > > Even if you assume a mirage is running a melee weapon like axe instead of scepter that's 5.25 seconds of evade frames per minute instead of 3.5.
> > >
> > > If you want to throw mesmer Distortion on there then you have to throw Obsidian Flesh on there since that's an invulnerability as well, both potentially 4 seconds on 50 second cooldowns so potentially 8 seconds of invulnerability per minute and now we're looking at:
> > >
> > > Mirage: 24.5 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> > > Weaver: 33.75 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> > >
> > > This is a pretty extreme rough estimate, assuming both classes are using their defensive options off cooldown all fight long in a way that isn't realistic, but if you're going to throw out statements like "mirage has more evades than Weaver" you should probably check what The actual meta builds are roughly capable of first. Meta Weaver decisively beats Meta Mirage in evade uptime right now.
> >
> > You would have to count also the mirrors from the trait in mirage, and SoI too, would be impossible to make 100% effective use of all that but in THEORY would be more.
> >
> > Personally i used to love 3clone shatter f4 -> SoI -> get 3clones and shatter again for 8s+ of invulnerability, and watching warrior/holo monkeys just run into me anyways while swinging at invulnerable, crying op xd.
>
> Aegis is also pretty good on condi mirage.
>
> However, I agree that Fire weaver might become a problem with the next patch. So it is okay to discuss possible solutions already. But I would like to see how it works out first. It's main counters - Firebrand, Water weaver for example - might profit from the upcoming changes as well and shift the meta as a whole.
I didn't say Weaver is OP and needs serious nerfs. Just pointing out how it's just a fact that pound for pound Meta Weaver noticeably outpaces Meta Condi Mirage in terms of it's evasion up time and it does so almost entirely on the strength of Riptide and Earthen Vortex.
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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:
> > > Why is Fire Weaver a problem anyway?
> > > Compared to Mirage:
> > > It evades less than Mirage.
> >
> > Meta fire Weaver way outpaces meta Condi mirage right now in evade uptime.
> >
> > 1 single block and one 0.5 second evade (Which similar to Full Counter is really just there so the counter attack goes off properly if an attack is absorbed) on the scepter 2, 8 second cooldown verses
> >
> > 2.75 seconds of evade every 12 seconds between Riptide and Earthen Vortex.
> >
> > Over the course of a fairly realistic 60 second fight a Weaver is getting 13.75 seconds of evade frames from Riptide and Earthen Vortex. Mesmers are getting 7 potential blocks and 3.5 seconds of evade frames.
> >
> > Illusionary Ambush is 0.75 seconds on a 35s cooldown.
> >
> > Twist of Fate is 1s evade on a 40s cooldown, but has the benefit of being an ammo skill. Over the course of a fairly realistic
> >
> > 60 second fight the mirage is getting 1.5 seconds of evade frames from IA, Weaver is getting 3 seconds from twist of fate.
> >
> > Now Mirage does have a built in evade on False Oasis that Weaver's don't have in their build which can be used potentially three times in a 60 second fight for 2.25 seconds of evade.
> >
> > Both classes have very high levels of vigor and while Weaver does have more the exact uptime on both is a bit hard to calculate while at work so I'll just say they break even at perma vigor. That's 8 vigor dodges over 60 seconds plus your 2nd endurance bar for a 9th dodge. Equalling 6.75 seconds of dodge roll evades per minute.
> >
> > Weaver runs energy, Mirage runs double energy so they're both procing it as much as possible, that's another 3 dodges per minute. 2.25 seconds.
> >
> > When you look at the totals you're looking at:
> >
> > Mirage: 16.5 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> >
> > Weaver: 25.75 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
> >
> > Even if you assume a mirage is running a melee weapon like axe instead of scepter that's 5.25 seconds of evade frames per minute instead of 3.5.
> >
> > If you want to throw mesmer Distortion on there then you have to throw Obsidian Flesh on there since that's an invulnerability as well, both potentially 4 seconds on 50 second cooldowns so potentially 8 seconds of invulnerability per minute and now we're looking at:
> >
> > Mirage: 24.5 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> > Weaver: 33.75 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
> >
> > This is a pretty extreme rough estimate, assuming both classes are using their defensive options off cooldown all fight long in a way that isn't realistic, but if you're going to throw out statements like "mirage has more evades than Weaver" you should probably check what The actual meta builds are roughly capable of first. Meta Weaver decisively beats Meta Mirage in evade uptime right now.
>
> You would have to count also the mirrors from the trait in mirage, and SoI too, would be impossible to make 100% effective use of all that but in THEORY would be more.
>
> Personally i used to love 3clone shatter f4 -> SoI -> get 3clones and shatter again for 8s+ of invulnerability, and watching warrior/holo monkeys just run into me anyways while swinging at invulnerable, crying op xd.
We're talking meta mirage, which is currently running Mirage Mantle and meta weaver. Otherwise we're getting into the weeds and can start talking about things that are currently irrelevant like Mist Form and Fiery Whirl on Conjure Fiery Greatsword.
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> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:
> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:
> > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said:
> > > I'm confused as to why everyone wants Ele to be a bunker SO kitten BAD and never wants us to do damage.
> >
> > you're confused cuz not everyone does, that's the way anet thinks ele should be designed to have a competitive build. sad but true.
>
> Nah, I've seen people practically scream about ele damage when they actually could do damage. I've also seen the exact same people moan when tempest was a thing before they got put into the floor. Funny how those people did not say a thing until Weaver decided to find a bunker build. Then they whined about that. After that people said fresh air Weaver did too much because of the double proc boons we got so they nerfed that. Then they took away the fury on swap and replaced it with might etc. Etc.
>
> People had not gotten off of this class's back because they want to justify every time this class gets suddenly popular with: "But D/D CORE"
>
> And I'm not blaming you at all Stand, because you've been somewhat reasonable, but I've been on the these forums for years and it's the same people that had whined about a lot of things here that had gotten floored into non-existence.
I kind of want a Righteous Instinct for Elementalist that allows them to run full damage specs a bit more comfortably by making something like Valkyrie viable on them. Something like:
Burning Heart: Your precision is increased by 100% of your vitality. This total is subtracted by your healing power.
Or like a new Elite Spec with a fifth full Arcane attunement that always crits.
Something to give them a build for more vitality on DPS specs, get a bit more upfront sturdiness to survive an incoming burst and done so in a way that doesn't allow to them from being high self healing, high vitality, and high damage all at once.
I always thought it was a crime that in a sword and sorcery RPG, the sorcery part largely isn't raining death on people with giant fireballs and lightning bolts. I actually really enjoyed seeing Fresh Air Weavers back in the earlier days of PoF before Plasma Beam got nerfed and a noticable handful of players were consistently playing it at a plat 2-3 level.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > a fairly realistic 60 second fight a Weaver
> I've yet to see a **Fire** Weaver surviving that long.
Fight better ones then.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:
> Why is Fire Weaver a problem anyway?
> Compared to Mirage:
> It evades less than Mirage.
Meta fire Weaver way outpaces meta Condi mirage right now in evade uptime.
1 single block and one 0.5 second evade (Which similar to Full Counter is really just there so the counter attack goes off properly if an attack is absorbed) on the scepter 2, 8 second cooldown verses
2.75 seconds of evade every 12 seconds between Riptide and Earthen Vortex.
Over the course of a fairly realistic 60 second fight a Weaver is getting 13.75 seconds of evade frames from Riptide and Earthen Vortex. Mesmers are getting 7 potential blocks and 3.5 seconds of evade frames.
Illusionary Ambush is 0.75 seconds on a 35s cooldown.
Twist of Fate is 1s evade on a 40s cooldown, but has the benefit of being an ammo skill. Over the course of a fairly realistic
60 second fight the mirage is getting 1.5 seconds of evade frames from IA, Weaver is getting 3 seconds from twist of fate.
Now Mirage does have a built in evade on False Oasis that Weaver's don't have in their build which can be used potentially three times in a 60 second fight for 2.25 seconds of evade.
Both classes have very high levels of vigor and while Weaver does have more the exact uptime on both is a bit hard to calculate while at work so I'll just say they break even at perma vigor. That's 8 vigor dodges over 60 seconds plus your 2nd endurance bar for a 9th dodge. Equalling 6.75 seconds of dodge roll evades per minute.
Weaver runs energy, Mirage runs double energy so they're both procing it as much as possible, that's another 3 dodges per minute. 2.25 seconds.
When you look at the totals you're looking at:
Mirage: 16.5 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
Weaver: 25.75 seconds of Evade Frames per minute.
Even if you assume a mirage is running a melee weapon like axe instead of scepter that's 5.25 seconds of evade frames per minute instead of 3.5.
If you want to throw mesmer Distortion on there then you have to throw Obsidian Flesh on there since that's an invulnerability as well, both potentially 4 seconds on 50 second cooldowns so potentially 8 seconds of invulnerability per minute and now we're looking at:
Mirage: 24.5 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
Weaver: 33.75 seconds of evade uptime per minute.
This is a pretty extreme rough estimate, assuming both classes are using their defensive options off cooldown all fight long in a way that isn't realistic, but if you're going to throw out statements like "mirage has more evades than Weaver" you should probably check what The actual meta builds are roughly capable of first. Meta Weaver decisively beats Meta Mirage in evade uptime right now.
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> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:
> Is that the squishy slow thing that needs to hug you to do damage? **Sure evades are annoying but at least it doesn't do damage while doing so.**
Wat.
Weaver can absolutely pulse damage on you while dodging with Primordial Stance.
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.
>
> Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.
>
> This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.
>
> Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.
>
> **I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA**
Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".
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I use it basically all the time in PvE.
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Chaotic Interruption should randomly interrupt a player with a 10s daze once every 10 seconds in a 1200 unit radius around the mesmer, specifically targeting players when they are casting skills. This includes ally players and the mesmer themselves.
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It really depends on how likely getting the resurrection is.
If going for the resurrection is a waste of time because of a safestomp or worse _dangerous_ because of the cleave, I'd probably resolve to try and get free damage on the enemy rather than try to capture the point or rez. Though I'll probably try to both decap and get free damage in if that's possible.
If the resurrection is something I feel very confident I can get with minimal risk I'll do that instead.
If there is clearly a multitude of enemies snowballing onto a point and obliterating a downed teammate I'll try for a decap but getting to safety is the top priority.
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> @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> There just needs to be more boon rip options that just remove boons and don't also add negative effects to the enemy (ie not corruption).
>
> Like if winds of disenchantment was just like time warp, existed on its own, and ripped and didn't allow boons to apply, it'd be a strong zoning tool and counter to double firebrand comps that ball up.
Winds of Disenchantment wasn't countering FB stacking even when it functioned like that. It just wasn't capable of ripping fast enough to even compete.
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> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Arkantos.7460" said:
> > lol weaver and rev are trash tier ... do we play same game ?
>
> Weaver- trash tier? Lol yes I do think ur playing a different game than the rest of us.
Weaver is definitely a contender for straight up the best 1v1 side noder right now, and based on the preview we saw it'll probably be hands down the best once Spellbreaker and Condi Mirage get the nerfs they're scheduled to get. And Power Herald has been top tier ever since they super charged Sword Offhand. Double Power Herald won both the EU and NA monthlies. Pretty sure Weaver won the NA monthly before that.
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> @"bravan.3876" said:
> Yeah that is exactly my guess, that ppl simply not understand when they do the effort to read my stuff. Sadly i have no clue how to explain it easier or shorter, in fact my writings are that long because i try to explain it easy and detailed. I try to use more examples maybe that will help but sure will not make posts shorter, maybe even longer... :(
>
> >>@mortrialus.3062 said:
>
> >>» show previous quotes
> >>The main problems with Infinite Horizon are:
> >>The other Grand Masters are not worth taking.
> >>Condition Damage Shatter traits were nerfed to the point of pushing mirage players into Deceptive Evasion Playstyles.
> >>Clones spawned by Infinite Horizon spawn automatically doing their ambush attacks.
> >>Staff clone ambushes did not have the 50% reduced damage output you see on the scepter and axe clone ambushes.
> >>Calculating with realistic stats
>
> >>Infinite Horizon will turn the Scepter ambush from a 2,000 damage attack into a 4,000 damage attack at 3 clones. On Axe Infinite Horizon will turn a 4,000 damage >>attack into a 6,800 damage attack at three clones. That's not exactly breaking the bank for maintaining 3 clones.
>
> >>Infinite Horizon will turn Chaos Vortex from 4,000 damage attack into a 16,000 damage attack with 3 clones.
>
> >>The problem is Chaos Vortex as an outlier in terms of clone damage and Infinite Horizon's interaction with Deceptive Evasion turning all dodges into potential >>damage rather than making dodges extra rewarding if you've previously set up enough clones like shatters are.
>
> To your points:
>
> 1. Is not a problem of IH but a problem of Anet didn't rework EM into a not gamebreaking mechanic and instead nerfed it to death.
>
> 2. Same it is not a problem of IH it is the problem of Anet nerfing the wrong things, they overnerf active ways of condiapplication (i mean the spammable ineptitude synergy was so broken before nerfs, that IH wasn't even considered to get used before, that means a lot considering how broken some condi clone ambushes still are). With nerfing IH it would be the same wrong nerf on active gamplay parts. Because IH is not the passive element in this formula. Some clone ambsuhes and condiclone normal autoattacks are just too strong in dmg. Also Mesmers own ambushes should not be too strong but also not too weak. But that is easy to adjust by adjusting ambushes from Mesmers and clones.
>
> 3. So do adjust ambushes instead killing a trait that gets more passive when nerfed by ICD or by DE clones not doing the ambush anymore when created. Does any other class with a dodge trait need to dodge twice to be able to get the effect form the trait? Inparticular because Mesmer already need to equip another trait to have an effect on each dodge? Why you expect it from Mesmers? Do any other class need to rebuild class mechanic elements like Warriors needs 2 bars of adrenalin to make a dodge trait work? No because the trait is already limited by the dodgemechanic and the trade off you have in your dodgemanagement. Why should Mesmer have 2 or even 3 times more restrictions in their dodge trait than any other class? So no DE is already a restriction a Mesmer needs to take to utilize IH on each dodge. No other class needs to invest a second traits to make a dodge trait work for each dodge. No other class needs to rebuild class mechanic recources like adrenalin bar on Warrior or head lvl on Holo to make the dodge trait work. Why request it for Mesmer? Also as already explained ICD and other restrictions you add to dodge traits will make the dodge trait MORE PASSIVE NOT LESS. Means no, i highly disagree on your point 3. Mesmer already has more restrictions on this dodge trait than an other class, we don't need to add another one.
>
> 4. Agree to that point but also would add at least scepter clone ambushes and also would add all normal condi autoattacks to be the issue. So with other words it is obvious what to do: Nerf normal clone autoattacks and clone ambsuhes (at least on staff and scepter i would say) or rework them into something with a way smaller dmg part and for that add effects the player can work with, just like sword ambush is designed. And compansate the Mesmer for most parts of the dmg loss by giving him more active ways of condiapplication back without overbuffing it to the old brainless spam all shatters for blind-confusion ineptitude stuff (what is not possible anyway because Mesmer has no trait anymore gives blind to all shatters). IH doesn't need to get touched to balance Condimirage into something more active and more skillful.
>
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
>
> > Sure there's some stuff you could do such as rather than clones doing an ambush attack when you ambush attack they only begin casting when you execute the cast. But really those are the main game play problems with infinite horizon as it stands right now.
>
1. It might not be a problem of IH per say, but the fact that the other two choices are both complete nonstarters definitely results in too many mirages running around with this one grandmaster.
2. First things first Rifle holo will 111111111 has a faster TTK than mesmer with staff or scepter will with three clones doing the same. Same with longbow ranger. This whole "3 clones autoattacking is too passive" is nonsense when most other classes have noticeably better DPS even with stuff like Sharper Images and clone conditions and that creating those clones in the first place is something a mesmer needs to actively do to achieve in the first place. The only ambush that's noticiably too strong with Infinite Horizons is really just staff's.
Second yeah, Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude being able to truck people with 30 stacks of confusion was ridiculous and needed to be adjusted. But making the playstyle's primary damage dealing ability hot garbage while keeping it as a 24 second cooldown is a huge part of why mirage is currently at where it's at. If they brought the damage and the cooldown so that it had nerfed the top end damage but also reduced the cooldown kept similar levels of DPS we probably wouldn't see every single condition mirage completely abandon shatters.
3. First things first Deceptive Evasion will always remain a good trait worth taking for mesmers until the end of time even in eras where it isn't the meta thing to run. Even if Mirage and Infinite Horizon get absolutely nuked, Deceptive Evasion will be good even without clones spawning doing ambush attacks.
You also miss the point of why Infinite Horizon exists in the first place. It is not there to always get a 3 clone ambush attack every single time on every single dodge. It is not a problem for the game or Mirage if sometimes Mirage dodges and even if they are running Infinite Horizon they get literally zero benefit from Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon provided plenty of value even back when we still had condition shatter mirages and they might dodge when they only have one clone for you.
Infinite Horizon is there to be a gameplay reward for having pre-emptively set up clones for your ambush in the form of what is effectively a flashy 27-80% damage boost on the ambush attacks based on how much set up you've done. This isn't "adding 2 or 3 times the restrictions for their dodge trait than warriors." The ambush attack from the mirage is already their bonus for spending a bar of adrenaline and they get that by default. The point is that getting 3 clone Infinite Horizons should be something that's a bit harder and more rare, and require more challenging set up.
You decouple Deceptive Evasion from Infinite Horizon the way the two synergize and a lot of the worst aspects of condition mirage right now are significantly better. You aren't going up
> Also doesn't rly make sense because the active part of IH and ambsuhes with effect like sword are only useful when the Mesmer can use the clones to do the effect without the need to do it himself anyway. When you arrive together with your clone for a daze interrupt you don't need the clone for it in the first place. For the pure dmg ambsuhes not the worst idea but would kill sword completely for Mirage.
>
Sword Ambush with IH to get a ton of dazes that are all staggered is no more "active" than ambushing with your clones to maximize your damage. One of the main things people hate about Mesmer and especially Infinite Horizon is the sheer number of damage pulses that are flung at you constantly. Like you can be chasing a mesmer, they'll dodge up a jumping puzzle and they'll spawn an Infinite Horizon Scepter Clone that then throws attacks at you for 1.25 seconds. And then the mesmer will get up the the jumping puzzle, and then they'll throw attacks at you for 1.25 seconds.
> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > The main problems with Infinite Horizon are:
>
>
> > 2. Condition Damage Shatter traits were nerfed to the point of pushing mirage players into Deceptive Evasion Playstyles.
> >3. **Clones spawned by Infinite Horizon spawn automatically doing their ambush attacks.**
> > 4. **Staff clone ambushes did not have the 50% reduced damage output you see on the scepter and axe clone ambushes.**
>
> If 3 and 4 are true, those need to be addressed. I don't know about 2, because at no point does lack of diversity of playstyle justify an overpowered one. Their condi output is still high with the now surfaced playstyle, so that needs to be addressed in its entirety before additional condition damage is returned.
The staff ambush for both clones and the mirage are getting a 50% reduction next patch. So rather than you and 4 clones hitting a target for 16k condition damage, it's going down to 6k condition damage.
I realize now I really mangled my phrased on three.
With Infinite Horizon, clones spawned with Deceptive Evasion spawn automatically doing their ambush attacks.
> > 1. The other Grand Masters are not worth taking.
>
> This is of note. I am fine with EM exhaustion being shaved if the IH problem gets fixed, if pushing the ability to evade _at all_ while stunned to EM with far less exhaustion to make IH the bursty, but more volatile option is out of the question.
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> @"bravan.3876" said:
> @"mortrialus.3062" My point starts even before that (also i do not deny that some clone amsbushes overperform in dmg i just say the problem is not IH and nerfing IH is the wrong way). I think no one rly disagree with Condimirage being to passively and to defensive playable during doing hell of dmg from clones. The only disagreement between me and IH claimers is the way to solve the problem. I think the ways i showed prevent the class from getting dumbed down on other builds having high skill ceiling already, preventing an active and high skill ceiling trait from gettting deleted for no reason but my rework ideas have in the end the same result: Condimirage will be more active and more skillful. BUT without killing the whole spec or other builds which are interesting and active and hard to play already and where not even Badmed see an issue with. So why ask for nerfs will destroy builds you do not even complain about? When i showed an alternative to nerf the build ppl have an issue with, without nerfing other build not op?
To be quite frank I've seen a ton of your posts and find them rather hard to parse exactly what you're saying and I don't really understand the meaning of. As I said before:
> @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > @"Flandre.2870" said:
> > Core mesmer keeps getting hit because Arenanet REFUSES to adress THE REAL ISSUE WITH MIRAGE
> > which is Infinite Horizon.
> > If the trait simply got DELETED, all the core mesmer nerfs (15 patches or so) could have been reverted.
> > But the philosophy of arenanet is to make the calss easy and braindead and not require skill anymore.
> > This is also why they've gutted portal.
>
> The main problems with Infinite Horizon are:
>
> 1. The other Grand Masters are not worth taking.
> 2. Condition Damage Shatter traits were nerfed to the point of pushing mirage players into Deceptive Evasion Playstyles.
> 3. Clones spawned by Infinite Horizon spawn automatically doing their ambush attacks.
> 4. Staff clone ambushes did not have the 50% reduced damage output you see on the scepter and axe clone ambushes.
>
> Calculating with realistic stats
>
> Infinite Horizon will turn the Scepter ambush from a 2,000 damage attack into a 4,000 damage attack at 3 clones. On Axe Infinite Horizon will turn a 4,000 damage attack into a 6,800 damage attack at three clones. That's not exactly breaking the bank for maintaining 3 clones.
>
> Infinite Horizon will turn Chaos Vortex from 4,000 damage attack into a 16,000 damage attack with 3 clones.
>
> The problem is Chaos Vortex as an outlier in terms of clone damage and Infinite Horizon's interaction with Deceptive Evasion turning all dodges into potential damage rather than making dodges extra rewarding if you've previously set up enough clones like shatters are.
>
Sure there's some stuff you could do such as rather than clones doing an ambush attack when you ambush attack they only begin casting when you execute the cast. But really those are the main game play problems with infinite horizon as it stands right now.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> All warriors out there, sad about that neutering of Rampage!
> Re-roll into Healing Firebrand in protest and be literally unkillable for entire games!
> Show Anet what really is broken!
Word is that EU has gone absolutely wild with Symbolbrand Fever.
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I'm okay with renegade traits, F skills, short bow, even synergistic options like Malyx and corruption getting serious damage output increases.
But Khalla should never be allowed to be good in anything close to resembling it's current form. We do not need the visual noise of a bunch of bright and energy charr dancing all over conquest nodes.
Honestly maybe this is coming from me playing older MMORPGs where most stuff just had one loadouts that was good for PvE and one for PvP, but I really don't see the big deal in some Specializations are more of a PvP thing than PvE or vice versa.
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@"BadMed.3846" mesmer isn't what is keeping you in Gold 1-2.
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> @"Draes.5493" said:
> As a warrior main of about 18 months I gotta say I am a bit worried about the Rampage changes. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see why people call it an OP elite skill but as was mentioned, it is so heavily telegraphed. I have no complaints about reducing the power coefficient (but to 0.01............really?????). I would have expected maybe a 30-50% reduction for a skill with such obvious and avoidable tells. Of course this is just my opinion though.
Personally I don't particularly like the rampage nerf in how it was done. I think the power of the skill was mostly fine it just shouldn't be something that's potentially up every single fight like it was back when it was 72 second cooldown traited. Bump it back up to 180. It's powerful, impactful, but you only get 3-4 uses the average conquest match rather than 6-8.
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> @"Chaith.8256" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Huh...?
> >
> > What are you talking about the October Monthly isn't happing until the 16th this month.
>
> I casted a MaT ten days ago, see it for yourself.
>
>
1:37:52>
>
That's not the October Monthly. The October Monthly hasn't happened yet. Pretty sure that one there is the August one.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91663/october-monthly-tournament-on-11-16#latest
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> @"Flandre.2870" said:
> bump
> Removing/sharing key features of one class is not balance.
Haven't you been paying attention? They did bring portal back.
And gave it to thieve's. Who don't even appreciate it.
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> @"Chaith.8256" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > And in ATs right now the most dominant team composition is currently Firebrand/Firebrand/Holosmith/Herald/X with X being either a second Holo or Herald.
>
> NA October Monthly AT was:
>
> Firebrand, Firebrand, Firebrand, Mirage, Berserker. Vs. Firebrand, Herald, Herald, Necromancer, Weaver.
>
> AT Holo dominance??
>
> There was a good team in the semi-finals that ran double prot Holo. No tools holos sighted, no holo dominance sighted in NA. What did the EU tournament look like, must've been Holo heavy for you to claim Holo is currently dominanting ATs
>
>
>
>
Huh...?
What are you talking about the October Monthly isn't happing until the 16th this month.
No nerfs to Rev/Weaver? Anet needs to balance ALL classes.
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"Widmo.3186" said:
> > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said:
> > > @"Widmo.3186" said:
> > > Nerf all condi builds, fireweaver and condi teef, leave other weaver and teef builds alone, rev idc, hopefully some nerfs to holo and maybe warrior.
> >
> > fighting a water weaver is basically like fighting a kitten version of HoT launch chrono bunker that deals slightly more damage though.
>
> Mender needs water traitline and much healing power if its supposted to work. Thats what I call balanced.
> Moment you have neither defensive traitline nor healing power and youre sustaining/healing as much as ^weaver and deal same/more damage, thats what I call unbalanced.
>
> And sorry, as old chrono main in my opinion season 1-4 chrono bunker dealt more damage than mender :D
>
> Anyways, whats wrong with bunker builds? You have one-shot kittens, condi kittens, and you also have bunker kittens. If you want to delete one annoying "build mechanic" why not delete all of them.
After all these years despite all the offensive and mobility power creep the general flow and time of a conquest map is still the same. Matches tend to last 9-11 minutes on average even now, just like it was at the launch of the core game.
The times where you see this break down, where you start seeing matches time out with the highest point total being 250, where entire matches happen and the highest kill score is 2 is when you have really extremely power crept stuff like bunker Chrono and post Rework Scrapper especially when in ranked you were seeing 50% Scrapper usage.
That's why stuff like Chronobunk and reworked Scrapper is sooooooo much worse for the health of the game compared to something like Release Scourge or Pre-nerf DP Daredevil, or Spellbreaker. Bunker stuff, defensively overpowered stuff just disrupts co quest as a game mode more than anything else you can do