mortrialus.3062
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Posts posted by mortrialus.3062
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> @"bravan.3876" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and **PU should get removed.**
> > > > > I bet you took it from my first post :blush:
> > > > > > Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.
> > > > > Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.
> > > > > PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.
> > > Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?
> > > So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.
> > > > Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.
> > > Well, chrono got deleted(I srsly rofl'd when they deleted lost time and split adept trait into adept+grandmaster) but scrapper steadily got buffed and buffed, clearly not blatant favoritism /s
> >
> > And the portal nerf was one of the worst balance changes in SPvP throughout path of fire and here you are demanding a sequel. People had started mellowing out about mesmers again until they were able drop portal and run 3x combat utilities.
> >
> > Without mantra of pain you'll still one shot most builds. It just one shots less builds and less reliably than before.
> >
> > And now that you can double trait Mass Invisiblity to be as good as Sneak Gyro you want to take it away. I don't get it.
>
> Gyro has a great tell of someone being in stealth and even gives a good idea of the position of the stealthed players, MI does nothing of this
Going to stop your right there. Ever since Gyros were reworked into wells, Sneak Gyro no longer displays a gyro NPC or any sort of tell. It is 9 seconds of stealth, plus a field to leap through and blast through for more stealth. And no, the field is not visible.
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> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and **PU should get removed.**
> > > I bet you took it from my first post :blush:
> > > > Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.
> > > Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.
> > > PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.
> >
> > Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.
> Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?
> So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.
> > Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.
> Well, chrono got deleted(I srsly rofl'd when they deleted lost time and split adept trait into adept+grandmaster) but scrapper steadily got buffed and buffed, clearly not blatant favoritism /s
And the portal nerf was one of the worst balance changes in SPvP throughout path of fire and here you are demanding a sequel. People had started mellowing out about mesmers again until they were able drop portal and run 3x combat utilities.
Without mantra of pain you'll still one shot most builds. It just one shots less builds and less reliably than before.
And now that you can double trait Mass Invisiblity to be as good as Sneak Gyro you want to take it away. I don't get it.
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> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and **PU should get removed.**
> I bet you took it from my first post :blush:
> > Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.
> Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.
> PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.
Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.
Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.
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We've been at a point for a while where once you reach a certain skill threshold all side noders basically stall out to varying degrees based on match up for minutes on end only ending sooner when mid gets cleaned up by one team and a plus can snow ball and execute the side noders whose team got wiped, usually a rev.
I wouldn't call that a bunker meta, though. That's more like when Scrapper got reworked as only a handful of the most offensively overpowered builds could hope to kill it under specific circumstances.
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> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > >
> > > > > Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.
> > > > So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?
> > >
> > > Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?
> > >
> > > Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.
> > >
> > > I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.
> > >
> > > Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.
> > Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)
> > This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.
> > If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb
>
> No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.
>
> 1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)
> 2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)
> 3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)
>
> But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.
Berserker amulet noncrits.
1X Clone Plus Mesmer
3x Clone Plus Mesmer
So without might or crits a 3 clone ambush would hit for 3,748 over 4 packets of damage. A 1 clone ambush hit for 2,485 over two packets of damage.
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> @"Odik.4587" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > [https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle](http://https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.
> > > > > So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?
> > > >
> > > > Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?
> > > >
> > > > Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.
> > > >
> > > > Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.
> > > Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)
> > > This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.
> > > If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb
> >
> > No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.
> >
> > 1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)
> > 2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)
> > 3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)
> >
> > But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.
> Less clones - more damage per MW, so 1 clone hit a lot.Try to shatter with 2 and 3 clones, u will see what I mean.
It's almost like this is the opposite of how it should be designed and that Mind Wrack should both hit harder per individual packet and hit more times if you take the time to set up more clones.
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> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:
> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > >
> > > > > Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.
> > > > So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?
> > >
> > > Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?
> > >
> > > Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.
> > >
> > > I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.
> > >
> > > Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.
> > Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)
> > This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.
> > If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb
>
> No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.
>
> 1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)
> 2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)
> 3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)
>
> But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and **PU should get removed.**
Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.
Also that's not how Mind Wrack works I'll get some screen shots. It'll do more damage overall with a 3x clone shatter but each individual clone will do noticeably less damage.
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> @"wasss.1208" said:
> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > 1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
> > 2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
> > 3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
> > 4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
> > 5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
>
> Let me toss in my opinion on the engi nerfs you ask for, if you don't mind.
> (I see you compare it to Mass Invis. Let me point that out, that you can't really compare skills from different profs. in vacuum, since every prof. has a different kit given around that single skill. More about this later.)
When Mass Invisibility was finally buffed the developers themselves admitted it was stupid they let Toss Elixir S and Stealth Gyro power creep so hard on the mesmer "stealth elite" skill. So you can and the developers themselves did which is why they finally buffed it.
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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.
> > > >
> > > > It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.
> > > >
> > > > ~ Edit
> > > >
> > > > I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:
> > > >
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. **Nuclear damage output.** This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
> > > > > 2. **Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.** It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
> > > > > 3. **Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.** Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
> > > > > 4. **There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.** Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
> > > > > 5. **Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds** -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra _bad feeling_ about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"
> > > >
> > > > ~ 2nd edit
> > > >
> > > > And this meme deserves to be here too
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > > How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?
> > > If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno
> > >
> > > Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.
> >
> > It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.
> >
> > The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.
> >
> > 
> >
> > People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.
> >
> > Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.
>
> I dont get it, burst and combos is the only thing keeping mesmer viable, whats the point of nerfing the only thing mesmer really has?
> it has no sustain damage, healing so bad it dies to retaliation, cleanses nonexistant.
> garbo mobility thats so bad you are gatekept into specific builds.
>
> OH and PS if you increase top end DPS people will use utility that spawns 2 clones to instagib.
> IF you dont increase top end dps mesmer will be so garbage that I might as well play thief blindfolded becouse ill have better resoults.
> @"bravan.3876" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.
> > > >
> > > > It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.
> > > >
> > > > ~ Edit
> > > >
> > > > I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:
> > > >
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. **Nuclear damage output.** This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
> > > > > 2. **Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.** It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
> > > > > 3. **Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.** Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
> > > > > 4. **There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.** Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
> > > > > 5. **Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds** -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra _bad feeling_ about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"
> > > >
> > > > ~ 2nd edit
> > > >
> > > > And this meme deserves to be here too
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > > How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?
> > > If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno
> > >
> > > Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.
> >
> > It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.
> >
> > The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.
> >
> > 
> >
> > People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.
> >
> > Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.
>
> I hate those no clone 6k+ MW or up to 14k with one clone MW too, don't get me wrong, but they only do that much dmg when the Mesmer stacks every passive dmg multiplier he can find in the game. Just remove passive dmg mulitplier from traits, its a stupid, uncreative and lazy traitdesign doesn't add any skill ceiling anyway. Let only runes and sigils add small passive dmg boni. Or at least put different passive dmg traits in the same place so you have to choose between them, as Viquing suggested as a first step until Anet has some new ideas for a better traitdesign can replace that stuff. Superiority Complex also seems a bit bugged or simply overperforming, some crits i got hit by (not only from MW) run riot here and there. If you nerf the shatters, then every Mesmer build not using stacked dmg traits and run the more skillbased and active traitalternatives will do zero dmg, with other words we would punish the builds running more skilled traits for no reason. That is exactly the best way to kill skillbased Mesmer builds. Compared to the power creep we have shatters base dmg is already not great. Without stacked dmg traits/ rune they do less dmg per clone than most classes autoattacks.
>
> As for the PU core stealthspam oneshot build just rework MoP into a non dmg boonremove mantra and the build maybe is already dead anyway. Used or not, PU still should get reworked into a less unhealthy mechanic too. For example remove the steathduration and higher boonduration in return (only defensive boons, delete the might from all grandmaster traits in Chaos).
>
> No clue why we have so many so long threads about a build that is so obviously not skillbased and unhealthy from its playstyle (no matter how viable it is in conquest) but also so easy to fix...
>
It's not about kicking mesmer for the sake of mesmer. On a fundamental philosophical level I believe no build should be capable of killing builds in under 4 seconds, let alone a fraction of a second at the start of the fight. This includes soulbeasts, thieves, warriors, and Deadeye's the later two should also revolve around Exodia style win condition play. And I also philosophically believe instant cast damage, even condition damage is unhealthy for the game. Like thieves loading steal up 8k poison damage and enough confusion stacks to do 1k on skill use. It's not healthy for the game. You'll find I'm very consistent about that.
I also think certain skills that are too high impact and literally impossible to see coming, in particular Prime Light Beam, shouldn't be castable stealthed either and should Reveal at the beginning of the cast just like Death's Judgement.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I think builds that can sustain serious combat for straight up minutes at a time also should never exist and it's a big part of why I found post rework Scrapper so absolutely offensive and why I am still unhappy with Holosmith's capacity to reset a fight with T oss Elixir S and Healing Turret's overtuned burst healing potential. No build should be sustaining over 60 of combat without either having to completely flee and abandon the point or take jumping puzzles or else die.
Regarding the modifiers I don't think they're that passive or that lazy. Providing a damage boost to disabled opponents and a damage boost against players who aren't actively using skills are cool insentives that feel very mesmery in design.
I've said before I want to see power mesmers damage spread out, become more sustained, maybe look at improving sword offhand Phantasm's capacity to hit and DPS a target down, and condition mesmers damage condensed more focused on setting up and landing skill shots than clone auto attacks.
When you look at what mesmer should be physically capable of in game, nearly instantly creating a clone and then hitting with a 14k one clone Mind Wrack just shouldn't be one of them.
-
> @"Dantheman.3589" said:
> > @"blarghhrrkblah.3412" said:
> > I can't say much for other classes but DE has a huge tell on its stealth burst which is a bright orange laser pointing at you. If you don't react to this, then you need to pay more attention. Right now, I would say DE is pretty much food for other thieves (core s/d, drd d/p, etc) and revs.
>
> Rev is hard countered by de though even jay savage one of the good revs admitted to this
>
> Also @"Shao.7236" man ur like the only dude I see talk about other builds on rev. I saw a renegade do kind of wild damage and I’m like shao said that renegade can actually do damage ?
Jaysavage literally says rev is hard countered by every spec and it's impossible to not kill one unless massively outskilled.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.
> >
> > It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.
> >
> > ~ Edit
> >
> > I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:
> >
> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:
> > >
> > > 1. **Nuclear damage output.** This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
> > > 2. **Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.** It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
> > > 3. **Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.** Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
> > > 4. **There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.** Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
> > > 5. **Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds** -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.
> > >
> > > I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra _bad feeling_ about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"
> >
> > ~ 2nd edit
> >
> > And this meme deserves to be here too
> >
> > 
> >
>
> How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?
> If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno
>
> Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.
It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.
The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.
People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.
Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.
-
It actually looks and feels REALLY weird to me to see skills doing double digit damage that aren't mesmer clone attacks. Like 8k boulders into 10k dashes was always pretty ridiculous, but I feel like they should still be hitting for like 1kish because it just stands out as really incongruous to the rest of the entire game.
-
> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:
> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:
> > > > > > > > > > 100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TLDR
> > > > > > > > > I dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :D
> > > > > > > > > nerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.
> > > > > > With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.
> > > > > > Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?
> > > >
> > > > Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough
> > >
> > > [illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_(supplement) "Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.") It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.
> > >
> > > Invisibility
> > > Level: 2
> > > Components: V, S, M
> > > Range: Touch
> > > AoE: Creature touched
> > > Save: None
> > > Casting Time : 2
> > > Duration: Special
> > > This spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.
> > >
> > > Mass Invisibility
> > > Level: 7
> > > Components: V, S, M
> > > Range: 10 yds./level
> > > AoE: 60 x 60 yds.
> > > Save: None
> > > Casting Time : 7
> > > Duration: Special
> > > This is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.
> >
> > Well thats cherry picking here. Illusionists in DD where not able to frequently jump around like a super sayain. while being stealthed and blocking, while creating clones. I mean i get what you wanna say here, but balance doesnt work like that.
>
> and warriors in D/D cant dash 11 times like warrior can.
> WHen I think illusionist, I think :
> 1 Invisibility
> 2 Creating illusions to kitten around with people
> 3 Making things appear in the wrong place lets say I stand next to you but I make you see me somewhere else.
> 4 and last would be mind manipulation, but thats more of a different kind of school but I feel it fits anyways.
Using Phantasms for damage including killing people in their sleep with their greatest fear. Creating illusionary terrain. Creating illusions that temporarily are real.
Also in most versions of D&D, there usually isn't a straight up "Illusionist" class. You're just a wizard who specializes in the School of Illusion and you gain a number of benefits when it comes to casting illusion magic, but you can still cast teleportations, charm person, fireball, ect. if you've learned those wizard spells.
Anyway this isn't to get into a big argument on D&D rules. This is GW2, not D&D. I'm just pointing out "Why should an illusionist get illusions" is kind of silly when it's been one of the most defining features of illusionists in fantasy since contemporary fantasy has existed. Mass Invisibility is even named after the illusionist ultimate invisibility spell. If anything thieves having true invisibility is weirder than mesmers, but that's a staple in most MMORPGs because simulating normal nonmagical sneaking in an MMORPG game is just not really possible when it comes to playing with other players.
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:
> > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:
> > > > > > > 100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TLDR
> > > > > > I dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :D
> > > > > > nerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !
> > > > >
> > > > > Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.
> > > >
> > > > U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.
> > > With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.
> > > Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it
> > >
> >
> > In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?
>
> Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough
[illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_(supplement) "Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.") It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.
Invisibility
Level: 2
Components: V, S, M
Range: Touch
AoE: Creature touched
Save: None
Casting Time : 2
Duration: Special
This spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.
Mass Invisibility
Level: 7
Components: V, S, M
Range: 10 yds./level
AoE: 60 x 60 yds.
Save: None
Casting Time : 7
Duration: Special
This is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.
-
> @"AngelsShadow.7360" said:
> 
>
> who wouldn't love this
![](https://i.imgur.com/eHMGdtA.png"")
-
> @"bluri.2653" said:
> Its a mediocre build, cant even dodge biggest tell in the game?? Its rated gold only leauge on metabattle
Over the years I've seen you on the forums I don't think I've ever heard you describe any build as anything but mediocre or a joke.
-
> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > I have been summoned.
> >
> > I'd personally like to see Berserker's Amulet be removed in SPvP. It either is a noob trap that leads to bad play or it enables dumb toxic stuff like One Shot mesmer and Sic Em Sniper.
> >
> > I'd also like to see Mantra of Pain lose it's might stacks. That's probably the best immediate change we can make right now.
> >
> > And I'd also like it to become a ticking time bomb mechanic similar to Pulminory Impact. A mesmer casts mantra of Pain, the target and up to 4 other enemies near the target start to glow for a few seconds, you can see Mantra of Pain appear on your status bar, and 2 seconds later that's when the attack and damage pulse happens. Something to nerf Power Mesmer's capacity to layer 8 different damage pulses in a fraction of a second gets decoupled and forcibly spread out over time.
> >
> > That's what I'd do with the skill. Keeps the flavor of big damage, and even if it's instant cast there's still time for an opponent to react defensively.
> >
> > Maybe trim a bounce off of Mirror Blade.
> >
> > To be honest though, I think it might be time to directly nerf Mind Wrack. If all you have is one clone, Mind Wrack can still do 7k-12k damage with just a one clone shatter if you've just readied the mantra, have the 12 stacks of might as long as you're in melee range. It might be time to do something like reduce the damage of Mindwrack, maybe reduce the cooldown so that it's able to provide more consistent DPS. My impression of it was that it was always supposed to be a sort of execution mechanic. It'd take time to set up three clones in a fight or at least in the early design stages of the game that was assumed. So after 12 seconds of combat you'd have set up your clones and then you'd go in for the kill with execute. But right now it's just being used to immediately rush down players in under a second.
> >
> > This is what a power burst can look like.
> >
> > 
> >
> > I get that it's a target dummy but It has 18,140 health and 2,322 armor. For comparison a Rifle Holosmith will have 16,282 Health and 2,625 Armor. Still a 12.5k one clone Mind Wrack.
> >
> > The only advice I can give to people is to play with the game audio on. Mantra of Distraction has a very noticeable sound and it's typically the first thing to land in the burst. And scientifically you react to audio stimuli much faster than you do with visual stimuli. Even when I'm jumped and I didn't have any idea the mesmer was there I can typically avoid the burst pretty well. It might help you out.
>
> i run berserker amulet and i don't run a one shot build and i don't consider myself falling into a noob trap. In this particular case, I don't think the issue is the amulet.
Less of an issue now than it used to be because a lot of people netdeck builds now. But it used to be really noticeable especially pre-hot. New players would come in think "I want to play a big damage build!" And then come in with out the skills to survive on it and get eaten alive. I think it was made even worse because a number of professions started out on berserker amulet by default. I just don't think the amulet is actually enabling much of anything in value in terms of the health of the game.
> The issue is being able to have so many attacks all hitting at the same time so that when you are removed from stealth from doing damage, it is at the same time the target goes down. Anet should apply a 0.1 sec cast time to mantras and make mirror blade on greatsword unblockable. And a MAJOR change i would make is to give mesmers the choice of having either stealth or clones, but not both at the same time.
There's more than one way to skin a cat really because the level of multicasting on mesmer is really unlike anything else in game so you can hit a number of things and alleviate the problem somewhat.
If you prevent clones from being spawned from stealth, they'll just do it as they blink in to you from a distance you couldn't expect then stealth away to safety.
There's a lot of areas you can pull to alleviate it. But if you want to look at what is killing people the capacity to poke with a mirror blade and immediately instant cast unleash a 9-14k mind wrack with just one clone.
-
> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Also for the record this most popular version of this build has this much stealth with prismatic understanding:
> >
> > Mass Invisibility: 9 seconds of stealth, 48 second cooldown.
> > Decoy: 4.5 seconds of stealth on a 40 seconds cooldown
> > The Prestige: 4.5 seconds of stealth on a 30 second cooldown.
> >
> > Plus Desperate Decoy: 4.5 seconds of stealth when brought under 50% health on a 40 second cooldown
>
> Yeah, last night I was running some variants myself, which I suck on Mesmer, but I did notice the ludicrous amount of stealth that this build provides now with PU. Like... just mass invisibility alone, turns your entire team fight into stealth 1HKO machines if your comp is full of stuff like: Herald/Holo/Soulbeast/Spellbreaker. **With a Scrapper Sneak Gyro, at least you see the gyro**and know the opponents have to hug the Scrapper for that, but Mass Invis with PU? Dunno, seems awfully strong.
Bolded isn't true anymore. It's true stealth with no tell.
Also the idea that the Mesmer Stealth Elite gets nerfed back into having lower duration than Toss Elixir S with a longer cast time and a 3x longer cooldown is something I find personally offensive.
Really high stealth uptime wouldn't be as big of a problem on mesmer, there's already permanent stealth thief builds and the stealth doesn't make them good.
The problem has always been Mesmer's capacity to multicast so many damage abilities as once. It's always been this weird ab Mesmers having a lot of stealth but their only hitting you for 4k-5k when they're popping out of it and not 20k+.
-
It was some weird incomprehensible hot join nonsense back when people used to do primarily hot joins.
-
Also for the record this most popular version of this build has this much stealth with prismatic understanding:
Mass Invisibility: 9 seconds of stealth, 48 second cooldown.
Decoy: 4.5 seconds of stealth on a 40 seconds cooldown
The Prestige: 4.5 seconds of stealth on a 30 second cooldown.
Plus Desperate Decoy: 4.5 seconds of stealth when brought under 50% health on a 40 second cooldown
-
> @"Chaith.8256" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > I remember a very recent patch note saying they fixed a bug that caused it to gain more stability than intended when striking multiple targets.
>
> Which patch?
>
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/92410/game-update-notes-november-19-2019#latest
> * Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to grant more stability than intended.
I guess we don't know for certain if it was a problem with multi targets granting more stability. But I did used to frequently see Holosmiths fighting with up to 10 stacks of stability.
-
> @"Chaith.8256" said:
> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > The stability from Corona Burst _does_ scale with the amount of targets hit...
>
> But you claim to play Holo? Log in for one second, go to the center of the 16 Champion Target Golems in the mists, and use Corona Burst
>
>
It definitely used to. I remember a very recent patch note saying they fixed a bug that caused it to gain more stability than intended when striking multiple targets.
As a mesmer, I'm pretty used to seeing holos cleave my clones and phantasms and gaining like 6-10 stacks of stability.
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If I wanted to see the sun I'd go outside.
You can always just queue somewhere that isn't Heart of the Mists. Get good, scrub.
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Shining Blade. Not just my favorite weapon in the game, but probably my favorite fantasy sword of all time. Everything from the weapon shape, the sound it makes when unsheathing, how it folds out when drawn, the color of the magic effects and the weapons trail when swung. The only thing I wish was different was a better projectile than just copies of the blade, which is just kind of lazy.
Holo Needs Buffs and Nerfs (Formerly: The recent changes to Holo were good but they weren't enough.)
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"wasss.1208" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> >
> > When Mass Invisibility was finally buffed the developers themselves admitted it was stupid they let Toss Elixir S and Stealth Gyro power creep so hard on the mesmer "stealth elite" skill. So you can and the developers themselves did which is why they finally buffed it.
>
> If devs admitted that these stealth skills are powercrept, that means we will see them getting nerfed with the next patch.
That's not what they said, nor does that mean some of the worst cased of stealth power creep, Toss Elixir S, Sneak Gyro, Deadeye in general, and Mass Invisibility in response to the previous are getting hit next patch at all.
> [Finally, Mass Invisibility has fallen behind other mesmer elite skills—**as well as other sources of stealth over the years**—so we're giving it a boost to help it compete.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019 "Finally, Mass Invisibility has fallen behind other mesmer elite skills—**as well as other sources of stealth over the years**—so we're giving it a boost to help it compete.")