mortrialus.3062

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> I'll never understand why stealth was given to so many classes. It's a hard mechanic to balance and I see why a theif assassin class would have sneaky or stealth gameplay but why the rest? Even mesmer has confusion,clones,portals and tele's as their thing so why stealth to? Than u got rangers,scrappers etc etc, it's silly.

 

[i have already explained this to you](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1114261/#Comment_1114261) but keep playing dumb.

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > > > > 100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > TLDR

> > > > > > > I dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :D

> > > > > > > nerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.

> > > > With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.

> > > > Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

> > > >

> > >

> > > In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

> >

> > Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

>

> [illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_(supplement) "Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.") It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.

>

> Invisibility

> Level: 2

> Components: V, S, M

> Range: Touch

> AoE: Creature touched

> Save: None

> Casting Time : 2

> Duration: Special

> This spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

>

> Mass Invisibility

> Level: 7

> Components: V, S, M

> Range: 10 yds./level

> AoE: 60 x 60 yds.

> Save: None

> Casting Time : 7

> Duration: Special

> This is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

 

Mesmers having invisibility makes more sense thematically than thieves having invisibility.

Yeah I think ranger is pretty underrated right now and that a lot of Doom and gloom about the class being dead is just unwarranted. I don't know if I want to see a nerfed but between Soulbeast and core it has very strong ranked builds for the side node and team fight.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > I think we're all a bit nervous.

> >

> > I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

> >

> > > “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

> >

> > Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

>

> getting pissed off is part of the fun.

> If nobody is mad after the patch then the patch was bad.

> Alot of passives need to be slapped, singular traits should never provide perma boons.

> Looks at mirage regeneration or thiefs vigor/swiftness.

 

I know, it's just anyone who's had to be in the driver's seat of an ongoing game knows it can be pretty toxic right now.

 

I think people would shocked to see how glacially slow 2012-2015 gameplay footage looks compared to what we're useful. I don't think I want to see it go back to tha tlevel. Maybe a 10-20% decrease in over all damage, trimming some of the extreme evade/block/invuln chaining some builds have access to, and hit healing to prevent fights from stalling out for longer than a minute straight.

Honestly I got so used to Vanilla WoW's fear spell that even when I get caught by a necromancer's fear and I don't have a cleanse or stunbreak available I'm like "Thank god this is only like 3 seconds long."

I think we're all a bit nervous.

 

I do hope @"Cal Cohen.2358" l is ready though because it sounds like they are extensively going through and nerfing literally everything. Like they've set up a barometer for how strong a skill and trait should be based on it's cooldown, and have gone through hammering everything that's deviating from it.

 

> “The big thing we have coming down the line for both PvP and WvW is a major balance update. We’ve talked a little about it on the forums and on the WvW weekly stream, but to reiterate: our main goal is to reevaluate the desired power level for competitive game modes. We’re reviewing every skill and trait in the game to bring them more in line with our goals."

 

Sounds to me like the Wizard of the [Coast's Jedi Curve](

) when it came to Mana in to Power Out for creatures. I do hope he's prepared for an ocean of negative feed back because if everything in the game is getting hammered down balancewise, literally everyone is going to walk away initially angry and upset regardless of whether the changes are good or bad.

Also how does Holosmith not beat One Shot Core Mesmer?

 

One shot core mesmer is a build that is extremely glassy, only a couple of hard mitigation abilities, and it's survivability comes from maximizing stealth uptime, and holosmith still farts out reveal without even trying.

For conquest obviously Spirit Watch.

 

Like:

 

Forest of Niflhel: In terms of nodes I think this has hands down the best. Both the side noding experience has excellent areas to fight, as does the team fight. Both have excellent uses for line of sight and jumping puzzles and even advantageous terrain for teleports. Not only is the far push encouraged on this map with the second gate towards the enemy node. But even as the person getting home, should the worst happen and you team get eaten alive at mid before you can even join the fight, the capacity to go from your home node to far is really forgiving and can really swing an initial bad opening in your favor as a side noder. The map is very comfortably sized as well. The only complaint is that Svarnir and Chieften 99/100 are not worth it, but every game I see my team going towards them on respawn. I've seen teams abandon a triple cap to push the beast 4vBeast.

 

Eternal Coliseum: Overall well balanced map. After the revamp both the mid team fights and the side node experience have a lot of thought put in to them with line of sight and jumping puzzles and no ports. The map mechanic is solid and can swing things without feeling truly mandatory like Bell on Capricorn or a noob trap like Forest and Kyhlo. It is Guild Wars 2's Final Destination Fox Only No Items. I also love the aesthetics of an actual arena.

 

Temple of the Silent Storm: This map is so close to being my favorite map. It has hands down the best map mechanics that can change the game in favor of creating a massive snowball, or a losing team can recover from what appears to be a completely hopeless map. I love the aethetic. And I like how mobility is favored here with lots of objectives where moving fast can save the day. If there is one thing I dislike it's that the side noding experience is very mediocre and that's what holds it back most in my opinion. Limited capacity for interesting jumping puzzles, limited access to no ports to prevent a plus, but side nodes leave you pretty blind to pluses comparatively, particularly if they can port at you through walls like a thief or a rev as they can take a Call Target from their ally to target you without you ever seeing them. If the side nodes got a remake that made them comparable to the other maps this would hands down be my favorite map.

 

Skyhammer: Skyhammer is overall a solid map with an aesthetic I like. The map mechanic feels impactful without being outrageously over powered. And compared to Temple the side noding experience is overall a bit better than the side noding experience there, albeit you are still really blind to porting pluses. Even the far push is really comfortable. If there is one thing I actually don't care for it's the Mid and Skyhammer experience. The distance between these two nodes and the spawns is too short. So many Skyhammer games end up with the team fights being these big endless meatgrinders on both or either sides were almost as soon as the enemy team dies they're back there ready to fight and leave Mid and Skyhammer unresolved mosh pits for literal minutes at a time. Given that I rarely play builds that team fight, mostly sticking to roaming side noding on Condi Mirage or roaming on Power, getting bogged down in endless team fights is not my idea of a good time.

 

Legacy of the Foefire: A classic map but a bit flawed I must say. I think every single node provides interesting terrain from all parties involved. The side nodes are comfortable with useful terrain and easy line of sight for watching incoming pluses. The mid node is big and spacious, with good capacity for line of sight and kiting. There's a reason every 1v1 server uses this map because for actual fighting it's potentially on par with Forest. But it's not perfect For starters, the map mechanic is almost entirely a non mechanic. Maybe once a season I'll see it come into play in a meaningful way. This means there is no true comeback mechanic for the losing team. In addition, while the nodes are great in terms of fighting, the lay out of the map gives you too much visibility across the terrain making it easy once you gain a foothold to know exactly where all of the enemy team is because if you stand at the raised sections by mid you can literally see all the nodes and both spawns. Because of this its very easy for a team in ranked to just win the opening and then never lose nodes again because the losing team just doesn't have the capacity to out rotate them as easily when the enemy team has a bead on all their movement. Still, one of the more fun maps to play despite it's flaws.

 

Bad:

 

Battle of Kyhlo: A fun map for classes that port, but otherwise I find the layouts of all the nodes rather subpar for enjoyable combat. Both the side nodes and mid don't feel fun to fight at. Though on the plus side the terrain on getting to the various nodes is also pretty fun. Treb is a complete noob trap. At best no one touches it and it's a nonmechanic. At worst one of your teammates decides he's a treb main and goes to it every time all game throwing the rest of the map. Also because of the map's layout and the Clocktower Node this is just like Legacy of Foefire in terms of how much this map snowballs. Also Old Clocktower was cooler. I loved breaking the windows before diving into the fight.

 

Djinn's Dominion: One of the prettiest maps, but it isn't ready for ranked. Sadly it's in ranked. I'm not sure exactly what can be done to truly fix the map. For starters it's too small, once a team fight is won the side nodes are immediately snowballed onto. The map mechanic is another noob trap. If I could do anything with this map, I would make the Lamp a Permanent 4th node rather than a special mechanic. This would make it extremely unique compared to other maps and it would also alleviate the problem of just how tiny the map is by making more of the map relevant and also alleviate hard the side nodes get completely snowballed every game.

 

**Revenge of the Capricorn: My least favorite map in ranked currently.** The individual nodes are all solidly designed. It's gorgeous, but I think this might have the worst layout outside of Spirit Watch. For starters, the initial far push is basically impossible. I mean its not impossible but you really only have two routes, either the long way swinging through home or by literally cutting through the team fight as it opens, potentially forcing multiple cooldowns to get that far push. Now imagine you're the player on home and your team wipes before you can even get to mid. In other maps like Skyhammer and Forest and Temple you can push far in relative safety with solid amounts of Line of Sight to hide you and terrain to use as you push that way. If you team wipes and you try to push far the entire mid fight can see you and if any one is paying attention you're already in range to be stolen onto, phase traversed onto, and judges intervention onto making a decap attempt extremely punishing. And even if the mid fight doesn't immediately rush you, you're running right into the enemy who got home and there's little capacity to actually sneak past him. Compare to Temple where if you're sneaky and patient you can use the back door to quickly decap the point right from under the enemy's node as they leave the point when they finish capping.

 

In addition, while Bell is a solid mechanic I think the actual node on bell is just really unfun to fight on. It's a meatgrinder and without any sort of line of sight and a hilariously inadequate jumping platform it just massively favors team fighters because there's almost no terrain you can use to stall a fight here. Even Skyhammer has the panels on the side of the node for line of sight.

 

Right now Capricorn is the single most snowbally and swingiest map in the game. At the same time. This sounds contradictory but it's true. While Bell is a solid map mechanic and does decide games, what really decides this map is how boxed in the team that lost the last engagement is. Your capacity to recover with a far push that baits a favorable 1v1 or even a 2v1 you can stall while your other teammates try to recover is just so low. You have two options most of the time; you go home or you go mid. This means Capricorn snowballs harder than any map as often times teams just don't have any capacity to break through the choke points. On the other hand, I've also seen the most extreme and wild swings on this map. And when this happens it's usually some sort of upset at mid or home while you've been losing, and then once you've gotten that foothold your enemy can't break through the choke points.

 

I think if the giant buildings had entrances could actually be walked into allowing you to cut diagonally from your spawn to far without having to try and cut through the mid fight, it would really help with the layout problems. Maybe make Bell's node a bit bigger with just a little bit more terrain to use.

> @"Derm.4932" said:

> **Holo main**: my spec isn't META anymore, plz buff Anet

> _Anet buffs Holo_

> **Mirage main:** my spec isn't as strong as Holo anymore, plz buff Anet

> _Anet buffs Mirage_

> **Holo main:** my spec isn't as strong as Mirage anymore, plz buff Anet

> _Anet buffs Holo..._

>

>

> Holo is still better than like what -- ~80% of the other elite/core specs? Just because it isn't META doesn't mean it needs buffs. This kitten race to the top is a huge factor in some of the worst powercreep balancing. We know for a fact there is a big balance patch in the future led by a new balance dev that aims to bring down overall power levels. How about being patient and wait for the nerfs instead of crying for them to make Holo META again?

 

Aside from Scepter Buffs that happened back in 2018 when Scepter was underperforming I actually don't think Mirage has gotten a single buff since the Phantasm rework, and most of those scepter buffs were rolled back.

 

Edit: Mass Invisibility and the Manipulation Trait were buffed. Forgot about those. I think that's about it.

If I see ranked get toxic it's between teammates. If any enemy gets salty at me 1. I want them to be salty and 2. They'll/whisper

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> One shot shatter mesmers did always exist

>

>

 

True but for example the trait that turns F3 into a full stun didn't exist. 9 second Mass Invisiblity didn't always exist.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> the only thing that should be nerfed is sindrener and people like him that make these builds - builds that have existed forever but I guess the sheep will flock.

>

> if I was him I would be dead already from asphyxiation due to laughing overload.

 

Literally nothing in this game has existed unchanged since launch. Even things that might be technically unchanged are impacted heavily by changes to classes around them and changes to the class itself. For example nerfing stability from a boon that negates all CC's while it is up throughout it's duration to a boon that protects against one CC and is then consumed. Maybe Pistol Whip has been around for a while but Dagger Strom that evades hasn't.

 

Or individual changes to specific classes, such as Mesmer's Bountiful Disillusionment being nerfed from 5s of Stability on shatter down to 1s of stability on shatter making repeated CC much more disruptive. Or Warriors struggling to fit Balanced Stance and Lesser Balanced Stance in their builds and remain competitive side noders. Or Holosmith seeing Elixir U go down to 1s of stab and at the same time seeing the bug fixed that was giving them 10 stacks of Stability on Corona Burst.

 

Builds become problems as they become problems. Right now the two most omnipresent builds I'm seeing in ranked are Core Chaos Power Mesmer and Pistol Whip Daredevil and by a huge margin.

 

 

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> There are a lot of players who have decent refliexes, but with server side skill lag this problem could be easily solved by the game alt-f4'ing anyone who uses a macro. I would bet 90+% of the instakills would vanish from all competitive modes if the game just disconnected a player the second they hit a macro.

 

The burst combo requires a bit of finesse but the idea that 90% of mesmers are using macros is ridiculous.

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> I, too, don't want to waste effort in timing my interrupts. They should die while I please so.

 

One of the main problems is that a lot of the builds that have a lot of evade/block/invulnerability uptime reaching beyond 30 seconds of evade frames and above within the first minute of combat also tend to also be absolutely loaded with stun breaks or ways to get out of danger while stunned.

 

Daredevil: 2x Stunbreaks with Shadow Step, Roll For Initiative, Can steal to a distant target, Instant Reflexes if Traited.

Mesmer: Blink, Decoy, Desperate Decoy of Traited, Distortion,

Mirage: Illusionary Ambush, Jaunt, Dodge While Stun plus core mesmer tools,

Spellbreaker: Shake It Off X2, Frenzy

Fire Weaver: Twist of Fate x2, Obsidian Flesh,

Power Herald: Legend Swap, Riposting Shadows, Gaze of Darkness, (Glint Shiro Herald can pop 6x stunbreaks across 25 seconds of combat)

 

And for all of the above builds except Mesmer and Mirage they are breaking 30 seconds of evade/block/invuln fames through out the first minute of combat, which mirage at least getting fairly close and core mesmer lagging pretty far behind but making it up with very high stealth uptime. Fire Weaver and Pistol Whip Daredevil are getting close to 40 seconds of evade frames per minute of combat.

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Instead of that can we please nerf condis again? SPVP classes need to not spew out that much condi some of the condi classes and i have had whole groups wipe out teams is really ridiculous. forget about mesmers lets go after condis i say put hunting season on condis, and then nerf cleanses as well while we are at it to balance.

>

> There is literally no strategy whatsoever its just carpet bomb after carpet bomb of condis.

>

>

 

Condition damage attacks are just normal attack that do a bit more damage at the expensive of taking a bit longer for the damage to manifest, being able to be retroactively negated with cleanses and resistance and invulnerability. There's fundamentally little to no difference. If you eat a lot of condis, that's really just you eating a lot of attacks.

Unique skins and gliders for all the mounts for the top 250, with more impressive versions of the skins the higher up you go.

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > Does this apply to pve too?

> >

> > Yeah. If you're trying to do the power burst on Chrono it will be inherently weaker than mesmer and mirage because the Chrono doesn't count as a clone and doesn't pulse damage.

> >

> > ![](https://i.imgur.com/pJwe8Kw.jpg"")

> > On core mesmer and mirage you can output all that damage in a fraction of a second. Even more actually because the golem died before my GS3 landed.

>

> This are around 16-17k dmg in 5 hits in my opinion that's fine

 

You don't have to estimate. It was 19,601. In six hits. And had the golem not died too fast it would have eaten a Mind Stab for another 5k damage for 24k total and seven hits.

 

This also isn't just seven hits over time. This damage all happens all at once within a very small fraction of a second and when done properly is physically impossible to react to.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticWanderingBeanFutureMan

 

 

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> I think the mesmer himself might also count as a shatter, was testing, i felt like i was doing more damage.

>

> Maybe its me but maybe not.

>

 

On Core Mesmer and Mirage the mesmer himself counts as a shatter. That's why unlike Chrono you can shatter with 0 clones present. Chronomancer does not count as a clone.

 

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> So there is no reason to do chrono if im power then?

>

>

 

In PvP basically no.

 

The last chronomancer "rework" killed Chrono in PvP.

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Does this apply to pve too?

 

Yeah. If you're trying to do the power burst on Chrono it will be inherently weaker than mesmer and mirage because the Chrono doesn't count as a clone and doesn't pulse damage.

 

![](https://i.imgur.com/pJwe8Kw.jpg"")

On core mesmer and mirage you can output all that damage in a fraction of a second. Even more actually because the golem died before my GS3 landed.

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Im just gonna say this and its pve sorry guys i don-t get it, the damage in pve from shatters doesn-t seem that good.

>

> Im doing maybe 5k from shatters?

 

 

This is the best break down of what a power mesmer burst is, a step by step break down of all the various parts of the combo.

 

The video is a tad outdated as it's about chronomancer before it lost Illusionary Persona but the only thing that has truly changed is that you aren't Continuum Splitting to do the burst twice back to back and in PvP everyone is playing core mesmer.

 

This combo on core mesmer will global most builds in the game.

> @"AnodicShadow.3647" said:

> I just wish mirror blade wasn't unblockable. It doesn't need to be unblockable.

 

It actually kind of does need to be unlockable.

 

If it wasn't unlockable nonmemsers could create their own clones by reflecting it back at the mesmer, with no mechanics for what to do with it.

 

It would also be the only mesmer skill where you can straight up prevent the clones which isn't how other mesmer skills operate.

> @"blarghhrrkblah.3412" said:

> > @"xardan.2874" said:

> > BUT all mentioned above is not all that sword#3 skill does. Thanks to daredevils trait Escapist's Fortitude thief Every Second cleanses 1 condition and get 450 health. And 1pistolwhip last around 3-3.5seconds, so thief from 1pistolwhip can cleanse 3 conditions and get around 1500 health.

> > And this skill paired with daredevils trait is totally spammable, it cost only 5 initiative.

>

> From the wiki:

> >You will then Evade and cleave 4 times with a coefficient of 0.79 (Moving now will cancel the skill). The evasion window lasts for ~1.25 seconds.

>

> So at most you proc twice, and even then a half decent opponent will stop attacking into you when you start evading, so usually you get 1 proc in 1v1s.

 

Sure _you_ can stop attacking but there is nothing preventing your teammates from dumping damage and causing the thief to cleanse _your_ conditions. Not to mention enemy AoEs. Ate enough condition damage to die? Daggerstorm inside an AoE to shrug it all off.

 

Escapist's Fortitude has always been stupidly overpowered even before it got buff. A cleanse every 1 second is overpowered nonsense especially on a build that has close to 60%. At most it should be one cleanse on active use of the dodge key.

 

This build makes SD Daredevil look like a nuanced and skilled build to play.

 

 

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > > > > I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > from behind? my works fine

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."

> > > > > > > > = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.

> > > > > > > Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.

> > > > > > But it's probably proper balance.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.

> > > > > Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

> > > >

> > > > Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

> > >

> > > thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.

> > > condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

> >

> > No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

> >

> > Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

> >

> > I still remember Jawgeous [literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed](

"literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed").

>

> lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD

> 300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

 

THREE TARGETS LOOK AT THIIIIIIS

 

Meanwhile Engineer Rifle auto attack crit for 2k and pierces up to 5 targets and Photon Forge autos crit for 4k.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > > I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > from behind? my works fine

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."

> > > > > > = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

> > > > >

> > > > > then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.

> > > > > Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.

> > > > But it's probably proper balance.

> > >

> > > I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.

> > > Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

> >

> > Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

>

> thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.

> condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

 

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

 

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

 

I still remember Jawgeous [literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed](

"literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed").

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

> > > > >

> > > > > from behind? my works fine

> > > > >

> > > > "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."

> > > > = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

> > > >

> > > > Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

> > >

> > > then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.

> > > Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

> >

> > Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.

> > But it's probably proper balance.

>

> I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.

> Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

 

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.