Stephen.6312

I know this sounds crazy, but...I don't trust Jhavi. I think that she killed Almorra and is shadowing the Commander in an effort to get into Jormy's good books.

Just saying...

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Stephen.6312" said:

> > Hmm...I concede that one interpretation of Dwayna's bringing "humanity to the world" is that humans migrated from one world to another. However, that isn't the only interpretation of the text. I don't think that the OHS is meant to be a historical record of mankind's migration. When Dwayna places her foot on a world, it could just as easily mean that she has guided the evolutionary development of races already present on it, including humanity. In other words, the first line could mean that, without Dwayna's guidance, races like humanity cannot be cultivated from the raw stock of barbaric lifeforms present on a world.

> >

> > I would prefer the reference from GW1. That, in my opinion at least, would be far more authoritative.

> Read the whole thing next time. As it states later on

> -"She chose Tyria and brought with her those who would make this world a paradise. As she had promised, Dwayna led her people to peace."

> -"The two who are one, Issa and Lys, brought with her the hope and beauty of humanity. While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past."

> Its specifically stated that Dwayna led her people(humanity) to peace on Tyria after choosing it as the new world for them, and Lyssa mingled with humanity to help them forget whatever troubled past they had.

Fair enough. I will read it all next time.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Stephen.6312" said:

> > I was always curious as to why we think that humans came from somewhere else. Do you have a source that you can direct me to for this?

> >

> > I think that you've hit the nail on the head: our understanding of Jormag is based, in part, on paradigms passed on to us by the kodan. Their worldview forms part of our own.

> It was mentioned all the way back in Guild wars1 that the god brought humanity from somewhere else. Its been mentioned in GW2 also, there's some scrolls in Orr that mention it

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#The_Six

> >"The first of the gods to step forth from the mists was Dwayna, goddess of air and life. She placed her pale foot on the stones of Arah, opened the gates, and brought humanity to the world."

> >"She chose Tyria and brought with her those who would make this world a paradise. As she had promised, Dwayna led her people to peace."

> >"Balthazar came in fire and wrath, carrying the head of his father and leading his fierce hounds, Temar and Tegon. He swept Orr with a cleansing flame."

> >"It was he who claimed Tyria for humanity; he who said the other races would be easy to defeat. It would not be the only time that the Master of War was wrong."

> >"Next came the goddess of nature. Wise Melandru, oldest of them all, made of Orr a green and flowering expanse. She urged peace with the races already present on this world, but her advice was not heeded."

> >"When she saw destruction, she brought creation. Where she saw anger, she grew love. With this, Melandru prepared for a future she knew would be troubled."

> >"The two who are one, Issa and Lys, brought with her the hope and beauty of humanity. While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past."

> >"For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road."

> >"Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember."

> >"Abaddon, Abaddon. Your name has been erased from the towers, your cathedral condemned to the sea. Turn your faces away, oh sons and daughters, and let not his gifts tempt you."

> >"Grenth, son of Dwayna, first god born of Tyria. His powers deal in mortality and judgment. Defeater of Dhuum, Lord of the Seven Reapers, he is the prince of ice and sorrow.

> >"Standing before his immortal mother, Grenth claimed his place among the gods. Where his father had fallen, Grenth would rise."

>

> From what little we know, it seems the 6 brought humanity to Tyria after fleeing some sort of tragedy on whatever world they came from.

Hmm...I concede that one interpretation of Dwayna's bringing "humanity to the world" is that humans migrated from one world to another. However, that isn't the only interpretation of the text. I don't think that the OHS is meant to be a historical record of mankind's migration. When the Scroll says that Dwayna places her "pale foot" on a world, it could mean that the goddess guides the evolutionary path of races already present on it. In other words, the first line could mean that, without Dwayna's guidance, races like humanity cannot be cultivated from the raw stock of barbaric lifeforms present on a planet.

I would prefer the reference from GW1. (Does anyone know it? If so, please post it in the comments of this discussion.) That, in my opinion at least, would be far more authoritative.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Stephen.6312" said:

> > > @"Xanthia.7209" said:

> > > So I am going to preface this by saying I am not a huge lore buff, so I might recall some details incorrectly. However, this idea popped into my head and I enjoyed the thought so much I thought why not share it. And on the extremely rare chance I am even partially correct, atleast I get bragging rights to say I came with the idea first (atleast I couldn't find any discussions for this inane idea anyways). So with that outta the way, here is my theory.

> > > While exploring the new map extension of Bjora I noticed that the devs went into the effort of implementing a Claw of Jormag that flies around the sky and roaring occasionally. You don't seem to be able to interact with it as far as I can tell, but it is a really nice feature to put in the environment. It was then it got me thinking, this map now not only has a Claw of Jormag, but Drakkar throughout the story is repeatable refer to as its "mouthpiece". Interesting phrasing. I guess you could say..... Drakkar is its voice....a "Voice" of Jormag. I think you see what I am getting at.

> > >

> > > For some reason or other Jormag has both a Voice and a Claw. Similar to that of the Kodan and their belief system with Koda. Isn't it also interesting that there is SUCH an emphasis on the kodan whenever Jormag is involved. It is the kodan who are holding the line in Bitterfrost frontier, it is they who shut themselves out from the rest of the world in Still Waters Speaking to prevent the whispers from spreading father. Now of course an easy explanation is because of course they are the only ones you would interact this far up north-no other race is this far north since the norn fled. And yet, during the meta event on the new map Jormag says it themselves.....they are trying to help the kodan and the norn. Why so specific? Why not just say "I am trying to help you all." Why specifically call out the kodan. It almost as if they have a deeper connection with one another *wink wink*

> > >

> > > Another thing I would like to point out, is the tendency for the Voice of Koda to go ....insane during their duties. Recall if you will from vanilla gw2 maps like Frostgourge Sound where you have events like "passifying"(beating the kitten out of) the Voice at one of their floating sanctuaries when they go beserk. Hell I think even one of the dungeons, Honor the Waves, even touches on that as a plot point where you attempt to rescue the Voice only to find out later they've been turned by Jormag. So it seems it is pretty common for the Voice of Koda to eventually go insane upon listening to it after awhile. Know who also makes you go insane when you listen to it's whispers? That's right...Jormag. Hell in this patch alone we have not one but TWO examples of this happening. The first we hear about Ushers-In-Spring who was the Voice of Still Waters Speaking who attempted to listen to the whispers and was turned. The second being the norn scholar you follow while doing the achievement "A Hunger for Knowledge" where we find them dead after mistakenly listening to Jormag's voice because they thought it was a friend's. It seems curious how Jormag and Koda seems so alike in how they operate doesn't it. Both how their own Voice and Claw, both whisper knowledge and guidance, and both will eventually make you crazed by their whispers.

> > >

> > > So I know what you are thinking, no-they cannot be the same, surely the kodan themselves would be able to tell the difference between Koda speaking to them and Jormag right? Once again this patch explains it very well. That norn scholar I mentioned earlier, recall how I said that the reason they died was cause they mistakenly thought the voice they were listening to was their friend's voice. So we know that Jormag can change their voice to sound like basically ....anyone they want. A friend..... a family member... maybe even Koda itself?

> > >

> > > So my theory is simply that either Jormag is essentially Koda, or at the very least highly connected and intertwined with Koda (maybe Koda is a piece of Jormag like (spoilers the Whisper of Jormag end spoilers). There are just too many similarities between the two for it to just to be a coincidence. Now I am going to leave the post here for now cause I actually have to go to work. XD Hope you enjoy reading my stupid idea.

> >

> > I love where you're going with this and I'm open to this possibility. However, there is a detail hidden within this theory that the playerbase has long abandoned. It goes something like this: If Koda is an aspect of Jormag and, therefore, Jormag _is_ Koda, then it is entirely possible that the Spirits of the Wild are aspects of Jormag, such that they _are_ Jormag; and, last but by no means least, that means that...

> >

> > The human gods may be aspects of the Elder Dragons and, if so, the Elder Dragons _are_ the human gods. The latter possibility is raised by [Varajar Fells](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Varajar_Fells) and excluded by [Dragons and Gods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragons_and_Gods), or so it would seem.

> >

> > What I have outlined is impossible to avoid, should you embrace the idea that Koda is Jormag. And don't get me wrong: I'm not here to tell you not to correlate Koda, the Spirits of the Wild, or the human gods, with the Elder Dragons. In fact, I find the constant broaching of topics such as this, in which players try to associate the races' greater powers with the Elder Dragons, forms compelling evidence that the gods and the dragons are somehow related. However, I recommend that you adopt the simplest explanation at this point: As Dragons and Gods reveals, even if there is a correlation between greater powers and the Elder Dragons, there is no direct evidence demonstrating as much and, therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that, somehow, Koda and Jormag are distinct. It falls to us to understand why they are different.

> >

> > Here's a take that might help you to discern a difference: The kodan are fighting against Jormag and those who have complete mastery of their minds do not easily form pacts with Jormag. If Koda really was Jormag, we would expect that the entire kodan race would be easily corrupted by the Elder Dragon and that we would not meet so many of their kind who actively resist the serpent's influence.

> >

> > I encourage you to explore the other side of the mystery (the idea that Koda is somehow distinct from Jormag) that you have touched-upon, so that whatever position you take, you demonstrate through eloquence of writing and fair-mindedness why other players should adopt your viewpoint.

>

> The Varajar Fells things seems to be a result of the alliance between the human gods, the Forgotten, and Glint. The aspects are fundamentally equivalent to those in Glint's lair, except that the Facet of Elements - which possibly once represented Abaddon - is replaced by the Facet of Spirit, representing Kormir.

>

> One of the important things to note about the human gods is that they explicitly came from somewhere _else._ As a result, the strongest connection that can realistically be made is that the gods were a more benign equivalent to the Elder Dragons from the world they came from.

>

> Koda, by contrast, seems to be a native to Tyria. Therefore, the case made here could apply to Koda (a Tyrian native deity) while not applying to the human gods (aliens to Tyria, or at least in the case of gods that have ascended since they arrived, the divine power that makes them gods is alien to Tyria).

>

> That said, I do think it's more likely that the coincidences are accidental, or even that similarities in names comes from the kodan themselves using terms from their culture to apply to analogues among Jormag's minions.

I was always curious as to why we think that humans came from somewhere else. Do you have a source that you can direct me to for this?

I think that you've hit the nail on the head: our understanding of Jormag is based, in part, on paradigms passed on to us by the kodan. Their worldview forms part of our own.

> @"doogal.9368" said:

> > @"Stephen.6312" said:

> > 1. [The Search For Answers: Part I](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9p5o46/spoilers_the_search_for_answers_part_i/&ved=2ahUKEwi838XD0K3nAhVd8XMBHduMBNUQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_8fR-91R2QzIvacv2LKuo)

> >

> > 2. [The Search For Answers: Part 2](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/dhiz6c/the_search_for_answers_part_2a/&ved=2ahUKEwjD44Tc0K3nAhW6_XMBHVXoCDoQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0c188iCHvtXEJXXJth69ZN&ampcf=1)

>

> Wow! Read a lot of your sylvari and Markis theory. SUPER NEAT STUFF.

> Now I wanna go through it again, or maybe just introduce some rp around it. I nearly got rid of my only sylvari. (it also reminded me of my original background story stuff which involved her aura/glow, or lack of, and why she's so estranged from The Grove.

>

>

Thanks.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

>

> Krait are 100% confirmed unrelated to the forgotten, who are not native to the world of Tyria.

>

If I remember correctly, this understanding comes from a manuscript, possibly EotN. However, I wouldn't be so sure that the species are 100% "unrelated". That statement may simply mean that they cannot reproduce with each other, even if both have a common environmental origin (the sea); and just as the Naga may not be able to reproduce with krait or forgotten but are still an aquatic species. (I believe that the forgotten are an aquatic race that can survive for extended periods on land.)

You know, I've been working on a theory that delves into the idea that Grenth was an attempt by mankind's gods to address the problem of torment resolution in the absence of exothermic water magic. In my opinion, Abaddon dealt with tormented magic by boiling water. If you read the [scriptures of Abaddon](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Abaddon), you'll notice that Abaddon seems to be cleansing Jadoth of his impurities - the forgotten armada chasing him. The idea here is that Jadoth's spirit has somehow been corrupted by forgotten lifeforce (i.e. Jadoth has been infected by an inter-special virus contracted through some kind of association with aliens) and Abaddon's boiling of the Crystal Sea represents a process in which Jadoth's spirit is purged of the defilement.

Jadoth was clearly a water magician and demonstrated an awareness of uncleanliness that is shared by many of his [kind](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veteran_Water_Djinn_Shazuul), including [King Khimaar](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/King_Khimaar): _"The Forgotten **defile** the resting place of my people. Have we not suffered enough? My spirit has been weakened by such **blasphemy**. I must see the Forgotten removed from this place before I slip away...In a matter of moments, I shall leave this world for good, never to see my people's resting place **cleansed**..."_

Now the idea is that the Margonites acted as a kind of filter for humanity; they absorbed many of the impurities (e.g. viruses, diseases, illnesses) contracted by mankind as they fought wars against the other races inhabiting Tyria. Hence, the Margonites often looked [inhuman](https://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/0/0a/%22Margonite%22_concept_art_1.jpg/400px-%22Margonite%22_concept_art_1.jpg ""). When they entered the Realm of Torment, a state in which their ability to act as filters was exhausted, the gods must've realized that they needed to come up with a new way to manage the tormented magic generated by spell-casting.

So they turned to necromancy. Grenth represents the development of shadow magic into some new kind of filter for the human soul; a way to keep humanity from perishing. (Dhuum represents the ultimate fate of the human soul. The amount of torment generated by mankind is so great that they cannot avoid ultimate annihilation and Grenth is merely buying humanity time.) How does all of this relate to the Shadow in the Ice?

Well, I think that the Shadow in the Ice, an entity called Drakkar, is in fact an amalgam of tormented air magic (i.e. aether traumatized in the process of being torn from air) that can move through ice. It may be that killing Drakkar is a necessary part of resolving torment and that Jormag basically "hijacked" the Spirits of the Wild best suited to killing Drakkar, so as to ensure that someone would emerge who could do so. Obviously, this is a setup by Jormag, but the end result may be for the good of everyone.

When Aurene [comments](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voice_in_the_Deep) that Jormag may be tired of the cycle of (what I believe is) torment resolution, she may discern Jormag's attempts to impart into the races of Tyria (by modifying their DNA) more effective ways of managing torment than just using water or even shadow magic.

> @"Xanthia.7209" said:

> So I am going to preface this by saying I am not a huge lore buff, so I might recall some details incorrectly. However, this idea popped into my head and I enjoyed the thought so much I thought why not share it. And on the extremely rare chance I am even partially correct, atleast I get bragging rights to say I came with the idea first (atleast I couldn't find any discussions for this inane idea anyways). So with that outta the way, here is my theory.

> While exploring the new map extension of Bjora I noticed that the devs went into the effort of implementing a Claw of Jormag that flies around the sky and roaring occasionally. You don't seem to be able to interact with it as far as I can tell, but it is a really nice feature to put in the environment. It was then it got me thinking, this map now not only has a Claw of Jormag, but Drakkar throughout the story is repeatable refer to as its "mouthpiece". Interesting phrasing. I guess you could say..... Drakkar is its voice....a "Voice" of Jormag. I think you see what I am getting at.

>

> For some reason or other Jormag has both a Voice and a Claw. Similar to that of the Kodan and their belief system with Koda. Isn't it also interesting that there is SUCH an emphasis on the kodan whenever Jormag is involved. It is the kodan who are holding the line in Bitterfrost frontier, it is they who shut themselves out from the rest of the world in Still Waters Speaking to prevent the whispers from spreading father. Now of course an easy explanation is because of course they are the only ones you would interact this far up north-no other race is this far north since the norn fled. And yet, during the meta event on the new map Jormag says it themselves.....they are trying to help the kodan and the norn. Why so specific? Why not just say "I am trying to help you all." Why specifically call out the kodan. It almost as if they have a deeper connection with one another *wink wink*

>

> Another thing I would like to point out, is the tendency for the Voice of Koda to go ....insane during their duties. Recall if you will from vanilla gw2 maps like Frostgourge Sound where you have events like "passifying"(beating the kitten out of) the Voice at one of their floating sanctuaries when they go beserk. Hell I think even one of the dungeons, Honor the Waves, even touches on that as a plot point where you attempt to rescue the Voice only to find out later they've been turned by Jormag. So it seems it is pretty common for the Voice of Koda to eventually go insane upon listening to it after awhile. Know who also makes you go insane when you listen to it's whispers? That's right...Jormag. Hell in this patch alone we have not one but TWO examples of this happening. The first we hear about Ushers-In-Spring who was the Voice of Still Waters Speaking who attempted to listen to the whispers and was turned. The second being the norn scholar you follow while doing the achievement "A Hunger for Knowledge" where we find them dead after mistakenly listening to Jormag's voice because they thought it was a friend's. It seems curious how Jormag and Koda seems so alike in how they operate doesn't it. Both how their own Voice and Claw, both whisper knowledge and guidance, and both will eventually make you crazed by their whispers.

>

> So I know what you are thinking, no-they cannot be the same, surely the kodan themselves would be able to tell the difference between Koda speaking to them and Jormag right? Once again this patch explains it very well. That norn scholar I mentioned earlier, recall how I said that the reason they died was cause they mistakenly thought the voice they were listening to was their friend's voice. So we know that Jormag can change their voice to sound like basically ....anyone they want. A friend..... a family member... maybe even Koda itself?

>

> So my theory is simply that either Jormag is essentially Koda, or at the very least highly connected and intertwined with Koda (maybe Koda is a piece of Jormag like (spoilers the Whisper of Jormag end spoilers). There are just too many similarities between the two for it to just to be a coincidence. Now I am going to leave the post here for now cause I actually have to go to work. XD Hope you enjoy reading my stupid idea.

I love where you're going with this and I'm open to this possibility. However, there is a detail hidden within this theory that the playerbase has long abandoned. It goes something like this: If Koda is an aspect of Jormag and, therefore, Jormag _is_ Koda, then it is entirely possible that the Spirits of the Wild are aspects of Jormag, such that they _are_ Jormag; and, last but by no means least, that means that...

The human gods may be aspects of the Elder Dragons and, if so, the Elder Dragons _are_ the human gods. The latter possibility is raised by [Varajar Fells](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Varajar_Fells) and excluded by [Dragons and Gods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragons_and_Gods), or so it would seem.

What I have outlined is impossible to avoid, should you embrace the idea that Koda is Jormag. And don't get me wrong: I'm not here to tell you not to correlate Koda, the Spirits of the Wild, or the human gods, with the Elder Dragons. In fact, I find the constant broaching of topics such as this, in which players try to associate the races' greater powers with the Elder Dragons, forms compelling evidence that the gods and the dragons are somehow related. However, I recommend that you adopt the simplest explanation at this point: As Dragons and Gods reveals, even if there is a correlation between greater powers and the Elder Dragons, there is no direct evidence demonstrating as much and, therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that, somehow, Koda and Jormag are distinct. It falls to us to understand why they are different.

Here's a take that might help you to discern a difference: The kodan are fighting against Jormag and those who have complete mastery of their minds do not easily form pacts with Jormag. If Koda really was Jormag, we would expect that the entire kodan race would be easily corrupted by the Elder Dragon and that we would not meet so many of their kind who actively resist the serpent's influence.

I encourage you to explore the other side of the mystery (the idea that Koda is somehow distinct from Jormag) that you have touched-upon, so that whatever position you take, you demonstrate through eloquence of writing and fair-mindedness why other players should adopt your viewpoint.

1. [The Search For Answers: Part I](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9p5o46/spoilers_the_search_for_answers_part_i/&ved=2ahUKEwi838XD0K3nAhVd8XMBHduMBNUQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_8fR-91R2QzIvacv2LKuo)

2. [The Search For Answers: Part 2](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/dhiz6c/the_search_for_answers_part_2a/&ved=2ahUKEwjD44Tc0K3nAhW6_XMBHVXoCDoQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0c188iCHvtXEJXXJth69ZN&ampcf=1)

Hi cptaylor!

I don't know if you know of my theories. Look, I love your speculation. As I have already detailed previously, I believe that there are six threads that form the fabric of reality. Ley-lines are missing threads in this fabric. What Aurene thinks of as threads are probably timelines.

Just a few thoughts. I have a bit more that I've been working on too, but this isn't really about me so I'll just leave this here.

You know, the real problem with introducing the DSD in a compelling way is that Anet would need to execute the introduction competently. They just don't do that kind of thing well in-game. Their most compelling effects are almost always presented in written form. When Zaithan rose, he caused a massive tsunami. You'd expect the same from the DSD, right? In fact, you'd expect more. Will you get that kind of thing, the DSD creating big waves to assault the continent, in such a way that it is convincing? Probably not.

Therein lies the issue at hand. Anet won't introduce the DSD well.

> @"One Kiss Away.9180" said:

> Yes my main Characters are Warrior and Guardian. Guardian has plent of self heals and condition removal, but lower overall ealth then a Warrior. The Warryuo has more overall gealth but very few ways to heal. It has Shake it off as a trait, a trait that heals you for a littke when you apply might but not mucj more in healing. I mainly play ny myself unless Sally is around and the Necro and Mesmer does hekp in healing, but alone you really have to watch your health.

I regularly receive top healing in PvP. My problem is that high healing numbers aren't enough to turn the tide of a match in my favor. Warrior DPS and condition cleansing needs to be addressed, as the out-of-control power and condy DPS meta means that condition removal is imperative. But warrior has never enjoyed the kind of payoffs that other professions enjoy. For example, Guardians can spec for DPS and healing off Aegis, granting them both offensive and defensive abilities in one action. Warrior utilities and actions typically don't do this, or don't do this well. Hence, either the direction of balancing needs to change, starting with the culling of multi-faceted skills and actions, or warrior versatility needs a breath of fresh air.

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> After the recent changes to Rampage 4, or [Throw Boulder] it kind of trips me out taking a full second-long animation to rip a giant boulder from the ground and sling it at someone only for it to do 31 damage with Demolisher's ammy.

>

> Not complaining about the damage, it's just ruining my immersion personally. For comparison; you can throw a bolas, and deal twice as much damage as a flying boulder, with Celestial stats.

>

> A real traditional neolithic bolas design would use 2-3 small rocks as weights. In geology; to constitute as a boulder, a stone must be at least 10.1 inches in diameter. A bolas would not reasonably be able to be thrown with rocks of this diameter as lifting them would be incredibly difficult, and your range would be very limited. Not to mention it would inflict serious damage to whatever it hit. So you can't tell me [Throw Bolas] is just two boulders tied together.

>

> I know this is a fantasy game, and it requires some suspension of disbelief. The act of even transforming into a massive hulking juggernaut is what even makes throwing a massive boulder at someone possible, but my immersion is thoroughly ruined when 2-3 small rocks do more damage than that same _massive boulder._

>

> My proposal

> -----------------

>

> Since a couple of small rocks do more damage than [Throw Boulder] in PvP, I say the skill should be redesigned as [Throw Pebble] as a pebble is even smaller than a typical rock according to geology(that's science) and for immersion's sake.

>

> For practical PvP use, the cast time of [Throw Pebble] could be 75% of that of [Throw Boulder](1/4th of a second.)

> You can keep the damage as is, because you may as well be throwing a pebble at 31 damage anyway.

> A 1s stun is a bit much for a pebble, so that could be changed to just a slightly disruptive short daze. Or even a taunt, since in reality being hit with a pebble would be very unexpected and annoying.

>

> Please post any additional feedback and suggestions on [Throw Pebble] or you own personal grievances with [Throw Boulder] below. Arenanet; you have my contact information, and I understand completely if you want me for the balance team ASAP. Just ?

Oh the memes, sir. You humor me. Anet, fix the damage.

I think that you're suggestion is a terrible idea. The game is inundated with NPC-assisted DPS as it is. Ranger pets, although unique to the class, are a problem. Mesmer phantasms and clones are a problem. Necromancer minions, too. The list could probably be larger. But all of these "minions" represent an aspect of a class that interferes with core mechanics within the game. They were a bad concept and bringing in more won't change that.

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> Kill shot cannot hit that high unless you and the warrior are both with zerker gear.

> The warrior needs to have 25 might, 25 stacks power, and X stacks of vulnerability ( I believe 15 stacks is needed to achieve 20k+).

> Additionally warrior can only hit that high if the warrior is on a team where other players have modifiers that increase the warrior power and give 25 stacks of vulnerability on the enemy.

I know, right? A KS with the kind of numbers proposed by OP is very, very rare indeed.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I know we had spoken about this topic in the past and the question about Zhaitan’s Shadow sphere has also been asked of Anet with unfortunately no response.

>

> From what we have seen with the other dragons there seems to be a Primary Sphere of Influence and a secondary sphere of influence. The dragon’s primary sphere is quite evident because it shows up in their corruption as well as their physical make up. The secondary sphere of influence appears to not work in the physical realm and appears more meta physical.

>

> Currently the Elder Dragons have shown mastery of the following sphere of influences.

>

> Zhaitan: Death and Shadow, Mordremoth: Plant and Mind, Kralkatorrik: Crystal and Fury, Jormag: Ice and Persuasion, Primordus: Fire and Conflagration, Deep Sea Dragon: Possibly Water and who knows what.

>

> Most of the secondary spheres seem self explanatory, except maybe Fury and Conflagration as we haven’t had a lot of examples. These Secondary Spheres really only seem to appear within the dragon themselves and don’t seem to be shared with its minions unlike the Primary Sphere. That being said once the Elder Dragon dies, the secondary sphere seems to be up for grabs for the other dragons and then can be shared among those dragon minions.

>

> Zhaitan’s Shadow Sphere of Influence doesn't really appear in the game and when sifting through all the Risen pages on the GW2 wiki can I really see any Risen using any Shadow abilities, hence why I figured that the secondary domain is restricted just to the Dragon. When an Elder Dragon dies that magic is up for grabs. So I went to one of the first examples of one of these hybrid dragon minions that unknowingly appeared in the game with a new sphere of influence, the Shadow of the Dragon.

>

> At the time of the release we did not know that the Dragons can consume their spheres of influence and push those influences onto their minions. With no clear example of Zhaitan’s Shadow influence, I looked at how the Shadow of the Dragon operated. When you fight the Shadow of the Dragon it spawns several different Shadow creatures, Shadow Tendrils, Malformed Shadows and Smothering Shadows. This appears to be clear evidence that Mordremoth consumed the Shadow influence from Zhaitan as well as the death spectrum. Mordremoth also creates Smothering Shadows in the final HoT story mission.

>

> As you progress the encounter, Braham throws the divine fire to activate the areas around the makeshift jungle arena to eventually be able to damage the boss. The Smothering Shadows slowly walk toward the edges of the arena and Smother the divine fire and can only be harmed by it. The dragon minions also appear to fear and run from the divine fire and energy as well, as shown by the beginning of the Mystery cave.

>

> After looking back at that fight, I started to wonder if Zhaitan was using the Shadow Influence to smother the divine energies of the God Temples and their statues in Orr and once the energy was smothered, use his mastery over death to use his Risen Priests and Priestesses of the Gods to corrupt the energy of the statues. I would imagine that Zhaitan would want to stop these Divine energies from scaring away his minions and would want to corrupt the essences to power himself even more.

>

> The ability to stop the divine energy doesn’t seem to be an ability associated to the Death Spectrum, but it seems to be an ability shown by the Shadow Spectrum as shown by the Smothering Shadows. It should also be noted that taking back the statues themselves in Orr, certain pillars that have fire on them change their influence along with the associated god statues changing back to their typical god statue influence, Melandru’s statue growing back leaves for example. The Gods themselves also can’t be view by mortal eyes because of their divine light, which would make sense that Zhaitan would have negate this influence with the Shadow Sphere.

>

> Thoughts?

Good observations. I just wonder if you've developed a long-winded way of thinking about how Elder Dragon corruption works. It'll only lead to more confusion, I think.

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> I know I've started speculations about that long time ago but last night got a revelation. I launched myself ingame to rewatch the visions of the all and cinematic about the deep sea dragon. And here is what I've come with:

>

> 

>

> Named the 3D test "axolotl dragon" strangely, it looks like toothless. The one from the left is what I've seen with the vision within the story. Just think the body is bulkier than the drawn one. (speak of the right one)

> I just Imagine it with an axolotl face, oriental flying gurnard lateral fins, spiky ray type tail and several bio-luminescence due to the deeps like that light spike on its head.

>

> I also thought a lot about the infinity coil blue zone, the trials within Tarir. What if deep sea dragon minions are, simply, water elemental/ creatures made fully of water? This way impossible to see them. My guess is that the Aquarium within the crucible of eternity isn't empty, it's just all those big elemental are invisible to us, until we go in it and got killed. Imagine that the minion is just a body of water like a waterfall, a lake or anything similar or "bubbles" of water within waters.

>

> 

>

> We haven't seen them when Kasmeer trained the cubs in grothmar, during Tarir Trials, we just saw geysers. What if, they can't survive out of water? Moving only through their own fluid, water? I think it may explain the design of zone blue, the ground is water to allow that elemental/creature to move through it to reach the aquarium. But it would explain the issue with the size told by the water lead scientist if that creature can't modify its conformation. The second idea would be that those creatures looks like ocean inspired stuffs like corals, tentacles, shells or whirlwinds etc but camouflage themselves by erasing themselves from our sight, so manipulating our vision to make us only see water.

>

> But I'm more for my first thought, the dragon manipulate water elemental which are just water within water so we don't see them, they can kill without being seen. I can understand why peoples would flee it if they are becoming paranoid about that. (you are in water and you are lacerated and hit without seeing anything) just see above or imagine chaos in sonic. (http://info.sonicretro.org/images/7/75/SA1PerfChaos2.PNG) . Imho it would explain the fact we don't have anything from them. Apart if they are going to the surface of the water, you can't see them and their 3D shape. Karkas aren't the minions, Largos obviously not, I could have thought about quaggans (looking at their angry appearances), but I think it's even more vicious than inoffensive looking quaggans, as said waters within waters.

>

>

I agree that perceiving them will probably be difficult. In the EoTN manual, we learn that terrestrial beings often have trouble recalling personal interactions with the krait, an aquatic species. Moreover, most terrestrial species become terrified when hunted by submerged largos. So there is precedent for the idea that aquatic and terrestrial creatures aren't good at getting along and that, when aquatic creatures are concealed within water, terrestrial creatures have trouble perceiving them.

However, it's worth noting that creatures such as water djinn can be reasoned with, and the Inquest, comprised of terrestrial creatures, believes it has identified the minions of the DSD. So if we will have trouble perceiving them, it may be linked to more than just concealment within water; it may have something to do with a basic spell that only aquatic creatures can cast, which adversely affects terrestrials.

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> It troubled me, that ritual event (which one I love a lot like the doppelganger one in crystal desert) is led by a svanir necromancer. When you are chosen, you gain "Split Spirit".

> Description of the effect: "The dark magics of this ritual have wrenched a part of your essence from you. Find this unnatural haunt and defeat it! " sooo... We are made with essence? It's like our soul? I took the ritual as voodoo, but how Svanirs managed to manipulate spirits/souls like that? What gave me even more shivers is that the necromancer applies "Spirit Lured" -> "Dark magic permeates the area; it reaches through your body and wraps itself around a part of your spirit. As it grows stronger, it will be more difficult to resist. " Somehow the Svanir is able to make us fighting an evil twin without killing us or inflicting a condition to us. Then, I wonder, why Jormag isn't using that powerful weapon on everyone? Could be a tactic to send boneskinners against our troops as fear maker in addition of Haunts as distractions from real threats. Maybe they've learned those skills recently, old svanirs used to do nothing apart summoning elementals or using ice magic. But guess the asuran researcher will tell us more later.

>

> Never had the time to post that, so here you go.

Hi Hugo,

You have made some good observations. Everyone has an opinion on this topic, so let me share mine. These haunts are aspects of us that are tormented. By drawing them out, an Elder Dragon is resolving torment within it's sphere of influence.

To help explain torment, think of the idea that every spell we cast against someone else, using their life force, binds an aspect of that person's life force to us. In a sense, then, portions of their soul mingle with our own, causing malignancies that eventually turn into demons. This process - the mingling of others' lifeforce with our own and the formation of a demon - is perceived by those experiencing it as many things, including audible, and in it's final stages, visual hallucinations (the krait oil and Shadowstone both play into this as they are designed to lessen if not nullify this process).

I believe that Jormag is an air spirit who uses air to form ice. Anyway, the idea is that Jormag is resolving torment within the sphere of air magic. To do this, he draws from us all of the lifeforce that we have taken from others when we cast air magic against them. This life force forms our evil twin.

Now for the interesting part. The reason this twin resembles us is because every spell that we cast carries our energy signature. Think of our energy signature in the same way that you think of DNA. Imagine that every spell is like mixing your DNA with someone elses'. What do you get? A hodgepodge mix of life force that resembles a myriad of other people and you; with you as the only constant. This hodgepodge, were it to gain life, would resemble you moreso than anyone else, as you would have contributed the most life force to it.

Historically, terrestrial magicians have tried to resolve torment using water magic. The result of this approach was the would-be horror, Nightfall, which Kormir's ascension temporarily averted. However, terrestrial magicians continue to rely on water magic to resolve their torment, as Trahearne's attempt to cleanse Orr demonstrates. Trahearne travelled to the Source of Orr, a spring feeding a network of waterways that also served as waterborne ley-lines, to "cleanse" Orr. This probably irked Zaithan, whose behavior suggests that he isn't a fan of using water magic to solve other magics' problems.

I could go on, but this explanation is best spun into a theory, for which I do not have the time at present. Suffice to say that demons such as Menzies probably formed in exactly the way that I have just described.

I hope that this helps :)

> @"Bron.9647" said:

> I've been thinking about this for a few days and I feel like the way the Charr society is structured, they NEED an enemy to focus on. In Guild Wars 1 it was the humans, now it's the dragons, but who will it be when the dragons are no longer a threat? Will Charr again become hostile and seek to expand their territory? Bangar Ruinbringer going after Jormag is merely the most recent example of this and he probably felt the Charr needed a common foe in order to promote cohesion among Charr society and to allow him to gain more influence among the Charr. The only way I don't see the Charr becoming hostile again once the threat of the dragons is gone is if their society goes through some radical changes, like how the Olmakhan have a completely different societal structure and now seem fairly peaceful. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

My theory is that the charr form the primary Tyrian race that harvests aether and generates the most torment. Their warlike disposition is unlikely to change, despite the Omalkhan and Scorchrazer (?) demonstrating that at least some charr can live in harmony.

> @"Lampiao.2470" said:

> Hello guys, I would like to share my new roaming video if anyone's interested. I haven't posted anything in my channel for several months, but I'm trying to get back to youtube. Please give me your feedback (gameplay/editing) and, if you can, leave a like or subscribe!

>

>

>

> More details in the description, thanks in advance :)

Nerf that soab.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Been looking at this topic now that whispers in the dark has been out for a month. Interesting how Sylvari note the similarities between Mordremoth and Jormag’s Mind and Persuasion spheres.

Glint had similar abilities. Where did she get those from? Kralkatorrik, probably. And where did he get his from? Likely his mother. If Jormy turns out to be Kralk's mother, that would explain the distribution of similar gifts amongst the dragons. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that all dragons have some kind of mesmeric, persuasive ability, irrespective of their progenitors.

> Also I’m actually wondering now if the Fury Aspect of Kralkatorrik is all the storm and lightning effects we keep seeing in the Brand. I guess it could be Crystal too, just seems odd to have a lightning aspect to crystal along with the ability to have prophetic gifts as well.

I believe the Priory's understanding of the dragons' spheres is wrong. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think Kralkatorrik was the ED of time. Lightning and crystal can be physical projections of aspects of his nature, but not Kralk's true form.

> I watched the Icebrood Saga trailer where it shows the blizzard with lightning, (which I understand is a natural phenomenon), curious if this is Jormag somehow acquiring a bit of left over Fury magic, which given that this trailer seems to show a future event, could be possible.

Lightning can be evidence of an airborne ley-line, much like a gust of wind. We should expect to see such phenomena around dragons, not just Jormy.

> @"Scraggy.3814" said:

> I just saw the teaser for Icebrood Saga ep2 "Shadow in the Ice" first off, love the names of the episodes so far, but for the main reason of this post is what that shadow is. Now the devs have confirmed that Drakkar will in fact be a world boss in ep2, now a Drakkar fight could be implemented into the story, but I don't see it. Also, I think I can safely assume that because of Drakkar's confirmed appearance most people think that this is what the "Shadow" is. however, upon watching it again, I think that a) the shape of the shadow doesn't coincide with the concept art for Drake here, (I'm calling him Drake now btw) and b) the size, thanks to GW1 we know that Drake is ginormous, (of course that's to be expected of Jormy's oldest and presumably most powerful champion) and the shadow looks to be the size of you basic shark, maybe an Icebrood one, now this could be a proximity issue, we could just be seeing Drake from a distance, but the speed of the shadow and reaction from the PC suggests that it's closing in on them. My theory is that it's like some form champion of Drake perhaps, an icy horror that convinces you to drown yourself, to give in to the icy depths. What do y'all think about the shadow?

Well, most loreians concur that it's Drakkar with a shiny new shark tale. If it isn't that, Jormy could be trying to show us the big bad wolf via a vision in the ice: Steve.

Just get rid of it. The Warclaw is a disaster for WvW.

> @"Starfall Leyline.2481" said:

> Sorry, it was just the only title that came to mind and I couldn't think of what else to call it.

>

> **THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR ICEBROOD SAGA (And Path of Fire/Heart of Thorns if you haven't played that far)**

>

I've bookmarked this theory, as it's something new for me to think about.

Look, I'm still unconvinced that killing the Elder Dragons is a bad thing for anyone or anything, other than them, of course. There isn't much to suggest that killing them is creating problems for us. In fact, hunting the Elder Dragons has turned bitter enemies into close allies. Look at what the humans and charr were capable of doing when the Elders were seen solely as enemies, and how allying with an "Elder Dragon" (Aurene), rather than resisting it, has created new problems for the dynamic between the charr and the other races.

It's possible that dragons exist to be killed, even if they don't want to be. If they do exist to be killed, we should not think that doing so will jeopardize reality beyond repair. The All will find a way. It always does. Dragons are just one species among many, many more that have emerged from the Mists.

Everything that we have so far, indicating that killing the Elder Dragons is a bad thing, is just nonsense, pure nonsense. The asura have theories, derived by machines, which, quite frankly, are no better at predicting the outcome of events than the organic minds that assembled them. Furthermore, the Infinity Ball story arc suggests that the steam creatures are capable of fulfilling the role of Elder Dragon minions and have allowed the asuran PC's doppelganger to stabilize Tyria in the absence of the Elders. The humans haven't got a clue, although Balthazar's behavior suggests that killing the Elder Dragons wouldn't destroy Tyria (yes, the PC _assumes_ killing the Elders would destroy Tyria when appealing to Balthazar, but the god of war never openly declares as much). The sylvari have been instructed by their Dream to kill the dragons, as evidenced by Trahearne's statement at the end of GW2 Vanilla: "The dragons are not stars in the sky...one day we will kill the last of them". The norn aren't too sure what to make of the Elders. And the charr, well, they don't need gods anymore than they need dragons. Fighting is what they're made for.

As to the Elder races. The forgotten have theories. That's it. The dwarves are all but extinct and Ogden Stonehealer is an idiot. We killed the mursaat so there goes that. The jotun don't want a bar of it. And the seers? How convenient that they're all dead too.

Smite the Elder Dragons. Get it over with.

I> @"Tsakhi.8124" said:

> I’ve been thinking of a way to breach into this topic and I think I found the happy medium. The last chapter of the story is creepy for several reasons, one of which is Jormag’s whisper.

>

> Short story!

>

> I had a concussion, then I started to hear phantom music, then I heard voices. At first, it started off kind of funny, if not a bit annoying. (It was idle banter, speaking about stealing candy from a baby and selling it. (yes, I was like wtaf.) Then it escalated. And when I say it escalated, I mean it took a very, very, dark turn. Not going to repeat it because of forum rules and whatnot. (add to that, that scenario was a literal nightmare.) Then I heard screaming, then a loud bang and sobbing.

>

> Long story short: Jormag’s voice creeped me out, a lot. As odd as this sounds, though, it fascinated me. They did a very good rendition of hearing voices.

>

Tsakhi,

I read the title of your post and thought that you had something remarkable for us. There are so many boring, unimaginative posts in this forum. I expected to read your opinion of dragons' empathy - how they are connected to the world around them and how that affects their mental and emotional state. Instead, I get...._this_

I want to read more from you. Do you have more for me?