BeLZedaR.4790

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > (b) The fact that there are 1.1k comments doesn't take into account that some people are rabid in their condemnation of the current state of mesmers ... and keep posting largely the same comment. And that some — equally rabid — supporters of the status quo do the same.

> >

> > That's exactly what it DOES take into account, lol.

> >

> > Btw, I've discussed this with the mesmer mains on that thread and overwhelmingly they agree mesmer is broke. What they don't agree on is people asking anet to gut the class entirely or how bad the nerf should be.

>

> As a mesmer main I can't even enter that thread anymore due to how little most people are willing to listen as to what is actually wrong with mesmer, and not being able to hold a real conversation as to where nerfs should be implemented.

That’s because mesmer mains like yourself mostly offer under nerfs that may make it more managable but still a must have in any team and decisively a part of the top 3 classes dominating the meta.

Just deal with it that maybe people are sick of mesmer dictating the meta since hot.

It’ll still have a meta spot due to portal.

> @"Mthe mystery.4615" said:

> I don't understand. Before the balance patch, numerous people predicted what mesmers would become post patch . The community had tons of concerns before the patch was released, yet Anet didn't fix/believe it before the BS happened.

I’m assuming they did.

But their working method is once again to blame here. Here’s what they did:

They released a draft (skills split pt 1) and asked for feedback. Then, a week before the patch release with a date already fixed and unchangable, they released pt 2 without giving themselves any room to change anything based on new feedback.

Ideally they would release pt. 2 earlier or the patch later to allow for feedback on the 2nd iteration aswell.

Regardless, when the feedback has so many logical reasons showing as to why mes is going to be absurd and you don’t postpone the patch or nerf mes more (what can you do, as a developer you must know that unexpected things/demands can come about last sec) that is a major underestimation on their part on the severity of how broken and damaging mesmer is to pvp.

lets start by addressing supports in general. Supports in ranked in gw2 even in their prime strength are hard to carry on. Because if you don’t do the damage you don’t decide which target to focus and you can’t increase the damage output by making sure you hit skills etc. thus this is all in your team’s hands.

People like to use this saying “as a support you’re only as good as your teammates are”.

While not entirely true, because a support can make their life easier by relieving pressure and allowing them to focus on doing damage properly. So yes, you have less carry potential.

More in specific lets talk about current meta.

Current meta is heavy burst oriented and even things like FB support who are extremely potent are shifting out due to team dying so quickly they can’t be possibly healed fast enough.

And then in specific tempest is an overnerfed spec that is simply not good enough right now.

Hope this answers your question.

Vengance has a 25% chance to end up not killing you if you score a kill (chance for buff to be gone and you’re fine).

I believe there was a trait for 100% rally chance at some point but it got removed (or did it?).

This is working as intended.

Ayy another mesmer trying ro redirect anet to nerf the wrong things!

Let me tell you a secret. This build works just fine with the well heal skill. Or mirage heal skill if you run a mirage variant.

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> > > > Because balance is in disarray among all classes, I think it is better to target and discuss specific mechanics that are problematic:

> > > >

> > > > **Skills that provide invulnerability and/or full condition immunity while still allowing players to deal damage**

> > > > Classic example of having your cake and eating it too. If your going to be able to mitigate 100% of the damage incoming to you, there needs to be an offensive price.

> > > >

> > > > **Skills that autoproc invulnerability, stability, or condition immunity without having any input provided by the player**

> > > > Defensive autoprocs are just straight cancer. Why even bother playing when the AI can play for you AND better than you?

> > > >

> > > > **Insanely high burst skills that can be done with less than a 1 second animation delay and/or initiated from stealth**

> > > > Backstab, Death's Judgement, Mind Wrack.... there are so many of these. Being able to 100-0 someone with no counterplay is unfun for everyone. These skills need to have huge tells otherwise you get new players that join Gw2 and get one shot without having any idea about what just happened then just uninstall the next hour. This is one of the biggest reasons many of the new people I tried to get onboard this game just quit. They just cite "this game is too full of BS to be fun." Burst skills done correctly are things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate on warrior.

> > > >

> > > > **Condition auto procs and auto removes**

> > > > Stacking 3-4 more conditions on someone just by autoattacking is plain stupid. The condition/clear game is too dependent on autoprocs and autoremoves, surviving conditions is way more dependent on the AI then the player. Manual removals seem to matter very little with the rate that conditions are applied. The entire condition game needs to be slowed down and be opened for strategic decisions. Condition play right now is just spam spam spam.

> > > >

> > > > **Passive Traits with greater effects than manually activated skills**

> > > > Burst skills, immobilize, stuns, and dazes should be things that are manually activated. The fact that so many of these exist on autoproc skills is just bad design. AI wars.

> > > >

> > > > **Self-stackers that can obtain maximum boon benefits without the assistance of teammates**

> > > > Self-stack 25 might, blow up everyone with 4500 power driven bursts. Who needs support classes and teammates right?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That mean Power REAPER is the most balanced specialization in the game right now

> > >

> > > cuz dont have all of the above

> > Passive spinal shivers. But hey that’s pretty close.

> >

> > Apart from UA and sotm rev is like this aswell.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Well the thing i hate the most in PVP right now is the fact

> 1- that no one use his dodge any more unless it have a DPS mechanic (BTW this is PVP not RAID)

> Cuz they have enough invuln , block , attacks with evade and AI to eliminate the need for them to use the dodge

> 2- some classes wont use auto attack cuz his f skill is better (AKA Scourge )and when u tell him to have mercy on u and start using his

> auto attack his answer will be NAA i ll wait for the f skill

> 3- and other specialization have to use dodge and auto attack cuz they dont have another options

> that is balance look like right now

>

> one solution i can think right now is to make invuln a BOON (not to be added to the corruption table and steal)

> may be that will help

>

> i just want PVP to be player vs player not hidden AI mechanic VS hidden AI mechanic at least we can do something .

While invulns and skill evades are a little bit tok common, I don’t think its as bad as people make it to be.

Damage immunities are so invaluable rn only because damage is out of control, and is hardly possible to mitigate by normal damage reduction means.

If damage gets lowered across the board like it should invulns will be nerfed in value accordingly, and things like shroud, protection, barrier etc. which just absorb damage essentially will gain value.

Also not using dodge is quite an exaggeration. Though I can agree on autos. Some things like holo forge have too low cds on other skills so they don’t even need to auto for constant pressure.

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > > I have no doubt that this is with a Paladin’s amulet as well. This build is doing more damage with 2 defensive trait lines and Paladin amulet than other builds with 2 offensive traitlines and Maurader.

> > >

> > > Of course.. . Marauder ferocity is less effective on a condi boon build that strips boons such as this one. Paladin toughness & vitality is much better trade off. But keep in mind, Paladin is not the only amulet that works well on this build. killing it is easy!!! Need some play skill's tho.

> >

> > Condi Boon Build? That does 13k power damage burst on a heavy? With 2 defensive traitlines and all defensive traits selected? Working as intended.

>

> If you let yourself Boonstrip & don't run away for a reset, you deserve to get hit with 13k damage & more. That's just bad playing like before patch when Most classes could tank it all. Ppl need to know when to run, you can't just sit there & not expect damage no more. If you stick around & expect your boons to carry you, you gonna get hit & you gonna die. Expect that!

Yes. If you don’t avoid an attack of a set&forget by the mesmer that summons an AI to do the attack for you (meaning the enemy has to focus on both), that strips 5 boons then resummons itself and tries to strip it again or hit for 12k if it hit the first time. And the phantasm has quickness btw.

This is only 1 phantasm. Chrono has more than 1 out at a time.

This is not even the only broken thing about them either. Did I mention 10 perma boons yet?

So yes your advice is good. Just run away, cuz you won’t win a duel against a class this balanced unless the mesmer is trash tier.

Stop try to justify this just cause you want to keep getting carried by class.

I play this build for 2hours and already winning 1v2s, some 1v3s and every 1v1 that isn’t scourge (cause I ran a non cleanse variant).

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> > Because balance is in disarray among all classes, I think it is better to target and discuss specific mechanics that are problematic:

> >

> > **Skills that provide invulnerability and/or full condition immunity while still allowing players to deal damage**

> > Classic example of having your cake and eating it too. If your going to be able to mitigate 100% of the damage incoming to you, there needs to be an offensive price.

> >

> > **Skills that autoproc invulnerability, stability, or condition immunity without having any input provided by the player**

> > Defensive autoprocs are just straight cancer. Why even bother playing when the AI can play for you AND better than you?

> >

> > **Insanely high burst skills that can be done with less than a 1 second animation delay and/or initiated from stealth**

> > Backstab, Death's Judgement, Mind Wrack.... there are so many of these. Being able to 100-0 someone with no counterplay is unfun for everyone. These skills need to have huge tells otherwise you get new players that join Gw2 and get one shot without having any idea about what just happened then just uninstall the next hour. This is one of the biggest reasons many of the new people I tried to get onboard this game just quit. They just cite "this game is too full of BS to be fun." Burst skills done correctly are things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate on warrior.

> >

> > **Condition auto procs and auto removes**

> > Stacking 3-4 more conditions on someone just by autoattacking is plain stupid. The condition/clear game is too dependent on autoprocs and autoremoves, surviving conditions is way more dependent on the AI then the player. Manual removals seem to matter very little with the rate that conditions are applied. The entire condition game needs to be slowed down and be opened for strategic decisions. Condition play right now is just spam spam spam.

> >

> > **Passive Traits with greater effects than manually activated skills**

> > Burst skills, immobilize, stuns, and dazes should be things that are manually activated. The fact that so many of these exist on autoproc skills is just bad design. AI wars.

> >

> > **Self-stackers that can obtain maximum boon benefits without the assistance of teammates**

> > Self-stack 25 might, blow up everyone with 4500 power driven bursts. Who needs support classes and teammates right?

> >

> >

>

> That mean Power REAPER is the most balanced specialization in the game right now

>

> cuz dont have all of the above

Passive spinal shivers. But hey that’s pretty close.

Apart from UA and sotm rev is like this aswell.

I played said build a lot and reached legend solo with it in duoq seasons. Though I did not play it a lot since pof, as it was unplayable.

Tbh after the patch its not unusable. Does it COUNTER mesmer? Absolutely not due to gutting of retribution and lack of stability. A couple of properly placed interrupts (mesmer has plenty of) and you’re dead. This build is also heavily boon reliant and most mesmers run disenchanter. It can fk you up really bad. You could win though if you outplay them, but I’d say mes is at least favored if played well.

Also this build has the same issue it always had which is that thief shits on you. 5k crits from stolen skill twice or even 4 times vs s/d means u will be out of dodges sooner than you’d like and die. And they steal your might.

With retribution now useless means you don’t have stab so d/p in specific deletes you due to your long and telegraphed animations. (Headshot says hi)

This generally means if you try to be a duelist as this you cannot survive thief +1 and you end up feeding. That is even if this build does beat mes (it probably doesn’t).

But the main pain point this build has is scourge. Necro was already a tough matchup in hot because your defense vs condi is resistance, and you do condi damage. Necros have corrupts and transfers. A good necro was a skillful matchup.

A good scourge now means you lose.

Which makes you unable to be in teamfight role.

Also you obviously ain’t a roamer since you don’t take shiro. So your mobility is not amazing. And you’re not really a support...

Which leaves this build suboptimal at best at any role.

But hey I still think its fun as hell. That’s something.

So far it was worse since pof launch but it looks to head to a better sirection now.

If they bring mesmer in line, make renegade not legally throwing and tone down damage across the board, I might change my mind.

I voted no the last time anet made a poll for it actually, but kinda changed my mind considering how things are going with balance since pof.

I'm not a huge fan of stopping class swapping pre-match because it rewards multi-classers (I'm not one yet actually, but i appreciate people who take the time to be) but It might overall be healthier.

This should have more emphasis in the AT environment, which still allows class swap MID-GAME which is unacceptable.

However, I like Jebro's idea that maybe just banning the same Elite Specializations from being stacked rather than the whole class (best example would be core guard vs firebrand). but then do you really stop people from changing traits prematch ?

Problems with mesmer for me:

- EM is still too strong: when you dont play a cc spam class and you only have one or two disables and realistically you’re only going to hit one if the mesmer is good at dodging, EM trades being unable to be locked down with 3s exhaustion. That’s still too strong if you don’t have cc spam. Just rework it, its bad design anyway.

- the new phantasms deal too much damage especially with Phantasmal Force and chronophantasma. Even more so considering how hard their animations are to tell with 5 illusions up. Chronophantasma needs to have dmg reduction like imagined burden. Phantasmal Force just needs another nerf imo.

- boon uptime. Even murage builds but especially chrono ones have ridiculous uptime on high might, quickness, and like 5 other boons on top. Bothers me the most is the quickness.

Yeah dont destroy mesmer. Fking burn it with fire, quickly before it lays —eggs— clones.

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> How long is "longer than expected"? Are we talking about like 2 months, 6 months, or even a year? Because my answer would vary based on the timeframe. If it's more like 2 months, I would want to wait, if closer to or over 6 months I'd say let's get this ball rolling, and have a test run to see how it feels.

An answer to this will be very useful so we can give you an opinion.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > Would be kind of nice to have Chairs or sittable Benches around the Arena in the lobby, if the space was more fitting for it to actually look like you're spectating what's going on down there of course.

>

> We were actually just talking about this yesterday. This is the plan.

I think the champions rest area should decend down so that youcan actually spectate from there and have really majestic chairs, like the caesar watching his gladiators.

THEN champions rest might be something cool people might care about.

Atm its nothing different than any other pass really.

P.S making the entire place there be golden like gilded hollow will differentiate it nicely aswell.

Just some thoughts.

> @"jbondo.9817" said:

> just beat a plat mes 1v1 and then he ported away to decap so did I really beat him 1v1? no I don't think so, but I think they should definitely give mesmer another leap or another portal, or another blink or another invuln or another random blind proc or more invis or even more random aegis's or maybe they should just change the class to where players can use 1-2 buttons and get all of that at once just to really simplify the class and give mesmer players an even larger advantage than the one they have :)

I smell a balance dev taking notes. A mesmer main balance dev.

This patch was in the right direction, and overal mostly hit the issuess, but it failed on a couple of things for me:

- mesmer as in chrono/mirage are still overtuned. More importantly, they’re even more overtuned in a relative perspective despite dropping in raw power. Other classes were nerfed more.

Mostly with their quickness uptime and high defenses. Having essentially perma quickness makes it much harder to avoid its damage while still having great defences, making them hard to counter pressure.

- Renegade still never usable ever since its release. And this patch did absolutely nothing for it either.

- Scourge is still conflicting with the role of core necro. Not saying scourge should be nerfed more, I think they might be in a good spot now, but not as their intended support role. And core necro needs some love to be the condition necro spec (core shroud especially).

- tempest needed some love. Its healing is so outclasses behind firebrand that despite doing some damage and having auras it’s never worth it.

- Berserker should be buffed a bit aswell imo. RN its just straight up worse than core warr in power, and its not good enough in condi (intended role).

- Same goes for scrappers and dhs. All are slightly UP compared to current powerlevels, even of their own core classes, not to mention their metabuilds. Potentially things could be brought down to their powerlevel as a much harder but imo better solution.

- Deadeye I feel they should just remove DJ so that it can be buffed slightly without being broken cancer. I think it limits the design.

Those are the points that could be improved for next patch imo.

The most important one to me is the mesmer one, which really needs kind of a “hotfix” as its gamebreaking for anyone not mesmer.

You can’t stick to a competitive mindset of wanting to win yet you can’t stand a loss and want only ez wins. That’s contradictory.

Either deal with the losses and take them as a learning experience to become the best you can and not get mentally rekt by them,

Or you could simply switch mindset to just messing around having fun.

I want the pvp lobby to be gilded hollow in general. Much better looking and fitting imo.

It has chairs too!

This patch was in the right direction but it failed on a couple of things for me:

- mesmer as in chrono/mirage are still overtuned. More importantly, they’re even more overtuned in a relative perspective despite dropping in raw power. Other classes were nerfed more.

Mostly with their quickness uptime and high defenses. Having essentially perma quickness makes it much harder to avoid its damage while still having great defences, making them hard to counter pressure.

- Renegade still never usable ever since its release. And this patch did absolutely nothing for it either.

- Scourge is still conflicting with the role of core necro. Not saying scourge should be nerfed more, I think they might be in a good spot now, but not as their intended support role. And core necro needs some love to be the condition necro spec (core shroud especially).

- tempest needed some love. Its healing is so outclasses behind firebrand that despite doing some damage and having auras it’s never worth it.

The most important one to me is the mesmer one, because we’re gonna get mesmer plague going on.

I feel your pain as a former condi rev player.

Nerfed more and more despite already being on edge of uselessness.

There’s nothing wrong with a channeled block in itself, but the duration should not exceed 2s. Then if the block is short you put more emphasis on timing it to actually block an incoming attack.

Also what you proposed is gutting the skill, compared to current power level of everything else. Especially considering barrier is worse than healing, its a subpar version of a 3.5k heal over 3sec in a radius that is essentially melee. If you think that is going to even outheal just auto attacks of any spec today you’re wrong.

I don’t hate it, it looks visually better. But it could use a bunch of tweaks.

Imo mosty of the flying space between islands should be filled with ground. While it looks really cool that its a bunch of flying islands in the mists, I want more space to walk and jump around damn it.

They kind of confirmed they’re working on the arena, so i’ll skip that one.

The champion’s rest area should be gold imo, like glided hollow. Then it’d actually look different and be realy cool.

The only thing wrong with power reaper is passive spinal shivers.

Scrap that and compensate with partially reverting shroud sustain nerfs imo.

I don’t think it’ll dominate, it just might not be useless outside of the hands of very few good necros.

Buying for cash is illegal for raids aswell. But in pvp buying for gold should be illegal too.