Ragnar.4257

* Cure covid, cancer, aids * The middle-east, just, in general * World peace * Cold-fusion * Re-do GoT Season 8 About as likely.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > > > > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. > > > > > > > > The only reason it's being played is because it farms kalla renegade. Reaper is still better in teamfights. > > > > > > > > Id still like to see this build gone, just because it farms bad players to an unhealthy > > > > > > Ok, but its still popluar in high lvl ATs > > > > Yes, because so is Kalla. > > But it does not disprove my argument. You simply provided an explanation of why DH is popular at high levels. And I was simply replying to Ragnar's comment that burn DH is only viable in low level games. Can you quote the part where I said that? It's perfectly viable at high level right now. But give it another few months and everyone will have trained the muscle-memory and subconscious to play around it without even thinking about it. Because fundamentally it is easy to counter, people just don't have that counter locked into their "automatic response" yet.

> @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > you can defend it. But you cannot deny its being popular in MATs, Teapots areana final both team has a burn DH. Yes, it is indeed that the current fashion for burn DH comes down to this very basic lakc of knowledge from R55, Lakers, and other very competence teams. Yes, even very good players can get memed if going up against something they weren't expecting or haven't yet had time to figure out a strategy against. Did you watch today's mAT? Burn DH's having pretty minimal impacts, dying *alot*, and the winning teams on both EU and NA didn't have them. That's because now we're 6-8 weeks into this trend people are starting to figure out how to counter. Give it another 6-8 weeks and nobody will be playing them anymore at top level, all that will be left are the silver/golds who are always 3 months behind the curve.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > > > > > I would agree but thats not really a thing anymore. > > > > > The only way you really hard counter it is by having AI's that can tank the traps for you in many cases its less about the traps and more about the stealth/ superspeed on multiple buttons anyways. > > > > > Those runs grant a unhealthy level of sustain to any build that can use them simply due to the fact that they can vanish better than a core thief can with a better movement bonus. Ideally you could force a reveal by stepping into the trap on purpose but when ever is that a good idea. > > > > > Keep in mind not all classes have the tools you listed. (invulns) > > > > > Evades do not get you out of dragon maw if you dodge into a horrible position. > > > > > Teleports dont always promise your safety either if you get chained by spear of justice while the DH is invis which gives it no tell. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally the runes are unhealthy > > > > > Reworking it to be on heal or on elite skill only (perform x action) would be much more balanced at least that would make it fair to all professions and not exclusive to DH and Ranger which is another issue i have with it currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, every class does have a tool to deal with Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > Warrior: Shield Stance, Full Counter, Warhorn #5 > > > > Rev: Shield Block, Staff Block, Infuse Light, the various damage reduction stuff from Jalis > > > > Guard: Shelter, RF, DH F3, porting out with sword or JI > > > > Ranger: GS Block > > > > Thief: Shadowstep, Steal, Daggerstorm > > > > Engi: Shield Block, Hammer Block, Elixir S > > > > Mesmer: Distort, various Blinks > > > > Ele: Obsidian Flesh, a whole array of evades and teleports > > > > Necro: Flesh Worm, or just face-tank it all with shroud and then transfer all of the burning right back at them. > > > > > > > > I haven't even mentioned cleanses here, just stuff to negate Maw. > > > > > > > > It simply comes down to discipline of when you know there's a burnDH about of keeping track of Maw usage and making sure you have 1 of these available when you reckon the DH has Maw ready to use. > > > > > > > > People will eventually build this discipline, but they haven't yet. It's like learning to pressure a Reaper when it's out of shroud and kiting during, once you've got that mentality locked in then Reaper goes from looking OMGWTFBROKENOP to being entirely manageable. > > > Generally its unhealthy and not all of those tools are super effective at dealing with DH traps ontop of trapper rune. Some of the tools are effective during the activation and during the lasting duration some of them are not effective during the activation at all as trap activations are UNBLOCKABLE. Evasive skills will get interrupted for trying to leave dragons maw as well and it last much longer than those skills do. > > > > You don't need to block the trap activation. Once it has activated, stand still and block for the duration. > > > > You don't need to evade out of the trap. Once it has activated, stand still and evade for the duration. > > > > See, this is the problem I'm highlighting. People panic and start going "omg omg what do I do" and they keep face-planting into the sides of the trap. Just stay cool, stand still, block or use a non-directional evade, and if you have nothing else then just wait 2 seconds before hitting your cleanse (i.e. wait for most of the burns to be applied) rather than mashing it instantly (when you only have 2 burn on you). > > Some DH's prevent those plays with a Spear tether as soon as they see activation or about to see one, not everytime but keep that in mind. > > Ports and Stability are the best way out. And if they use Spear to interrupt those plays, then they lose all pressure from VoJ procs. People have no idea how this build works /facepalm And thank you, I had entirely forgotten to include stability skills as a way out of Maw.

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > > > > > I would agree but thats not really a thing anymore. > > > > > The only way you really hard counter it is by having AI's that can tank the traps for you in many cases its less about the traps and more about the stealth/ superspeed on multiple buttons anyways. > > > > > Those runs grant a unhealthy level of sustain to any build that can use them simply due to the fact that they can vanish better than a core thief can with a better movement bonus. Ideally you could force a reveal by stepping into the trap on purpose but when ever is that a good idea. > > > > > Keep in mind not all classes have the tools you listed. (invulns) > > > > > Evades do not get you out of dragon maw if you dodge into a horrible position. > > > > > Teleports dont always promise your safety either if you get chained by spear of justice while the DH is invis which gives it no tell. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally the runes are unhealthy > > > > > Reworking it to be on heal or on elite skill only (perform x action) would be much more balanced at least that would make it fair to all professions and not exclusive to DH and Ranger which is another issue i have with it currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, every class does have a tool to deal with Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > Warrior: Shield Stance, Full Counter, Warhorn #5 > > > > Rev: Shield Block, Staff Block, Infuse Light, the various damage reduction stuff from Jalis > > > > Guard: Shelter, RF, DH F3, porting out with sword or JI > > > > Ranger: GS Block > > > > Thief: Shadowstep, Steal, Daggerstorm > > > > Engi: Shield Block, Hammer Block, Elixir S > > > > Mesmer: Distort, various Blinks > > > > Ele: Obsidian Flesh, a whole array of evades and teleports > > > > Necro: Flesh Worm, or just face-tank it all with shroud and then transfer all of the burning right back at them. > > > > > > > > I haven't even mentioned cleanses here, just stuff to negate Maw. > > > > > > > > It simply comes down to discipline of when you know there's a burnDH about of keeping track of Maw usage and making sure you have 1 of these available when you reckon the DH has Maw ready to use. > > > > > > > > People will eventually build this discipline, but they haven't yet. It's like learning to pressure a Reaper when it's out of shroud and kiting during, once you've got that mentality locked in then Reaper goes from looking OMGWTFBROKENOP to being entirely manageable. > > > Generally its unhealthy and not all of those tools are super effective at dealing with DH traps ontop of trapper rune. Some of the tools are effective during the activation and during the lasting duration some of them are not effective during the activation at all as trap activations are UNBLOCKABLE. Evasive skills will get interrupted for trying to leave dragons maw as well and it last much longer than those skills do. > > > > You don't need to block the trap activation. Once it has activated, stand still and block for the duration. > > > > You don't need to evade out of the trap. Once it has activated, stand still and evade for the duration. > > > > See, this is the problem I'm highlighting. People panic and start going "omg omg what do I do" and they keep face-planting into the sides of the trap. Just stay cool, stand still, block or use a non-directional evade, and if you have nothing else then just wait 2 seconds before hitting your cleanse (i.e. wait for most of the burns to be applied) rather than mashing it instantly (when you only have 2 burn on you). > > When you are pressed for time in a match its hard to tell people to keep a cool head > Regardless you are correct and i agree with what you are saying here but you are still missing my point as well. > Try to keep an open mind about the other things i pointed and why people have a bad taste about the rune. TBH, I don't care much if Trapper Rune gets nerfed or removed, or if Burn-DH gets nerfed out of viability. I don't play it (I dabble in unranked, but not in ranked/AT). But what I am concerned about is that people who don't understand how to play or play against the build will cry for all sorts of nerfs which are actually nothing to do with the problem. You see it so many times on so many builds, people entirely failing to understand the root problem, and calling for nerfs on x/y/z which really are unrelated. Symbols, Traps, Permeating Wrath, Sword of Justice, none of these are major issues on other builds. The root cause of any issue with Burn DH comes down to Dragon's Maw out of stealth. No Maw, No Kills.

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > > > > > I would agree but thats not really a thing anymore. > > > The only way you really hard counter it is by having AI's that can tank the traps for you in many cases its less about the traps and more about the stealth/ superspeed on multiple buttons anyways. > > > Those runs grant a unhealthy level of sustain to any build that can use them simply due to the fact that they can vanish better than a core thief can with a better movement bonus. Ideally you could force a reveal by stepping into the trap on purpose but when ever is that a good idea. > > > Keep in mind not all classes have the tools you listed. (invulns) > > > Evades do not get you out of dragon maw if you dodge into a horrible position. > > > Teleports dont always promise your safety either if you get chained by spear of justice while the DH is invis which gives it no tell. > > > > > > Ideally the runes are unhealthy > > > Reworking it to be on heal or on elite skill only (perform x action) would be much more balanced at least that would make it fair to all professions and not exclusive to DH and Ranger which is another issue i have with it currently. > > > > > > > > > > No, every class does have a tool to deal with Dragon's Maw. > > > > Warrior: Shield Stance, Full Counter, Warhorn #5 > > Rev: Shield Block, Staff Block, Infuse Light, the various damage reduction stuff from Jalis > > Guard: Shelter, RF, DH F3, porting out with sword or JI > > Ranger: GS Block > > Thief: Shadowstep, Steal, Daggerstorm > > Engi: Shield Block, Hammer Block, Elixir S > > Mesmer: Distort, various Blinks > > Ele: Obsidian Flesh, a whole array of evades and teleports > > Necro: Flesh Worm, or just face-tank it all with shroud and then transfer all of the burning right back at them. > > > > I haven't even mentioned cleanses here, just stuff to negate Maw. > > > > It simply comes down to discipline of when you know there's a burnDH about of keeping track of Maw usage and making sure you have 1 of these available when you reckon the DH has Maw ready to use. > > > > People will eventually build this discipline, but they haven't yet. It's like learning to pressure a Reaper when it's out of shroud and kiting during, once you've got that mentality locked in then Reaper goes from looking OMGWTFBROKENOP to being entirely manageable. > Generally its unhealthy and not all of those tools are super effective at dealing with DH traps ontop of trapper rune. Some of the tools are effective during the activation and during the lasting duration some of them are not effective during the activation at all as trap activations are UNBLOCKABLE. Evasive skills will get interrupted for trying to leave dragons maw as well and it last much longer than those skills do. You don't need to block the trap activation. Once it has activated, stand still and block for the duration. You don't need to evade out of the trap. Once it has activated, stand still and evade for the duration. See, this is the problem I'm highlighting. People panic and start going "omg omg what do I do" and they keep face-planting into the sides of the trap. Just stay cool, stand still, block or use a non-directional evade, and if you have nothing else then just wait 2 seconds before hitting your cleanse (i.e. wait for most of the burns to be applied) rather than mashing it instantly (when you only have 2 burn on you).

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. > > > > Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: > > > > 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ > > 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw > > > > Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. > > > > Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. > > > > If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. > > > > The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. > > > > Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. > > > > As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared. > > I would agree but thats not really a thing anymore. > The only way you really hard counter it is by having AI's that can tank the traps for you in many cases its less about the traps and more about the stealth/ superspeed on multiple buttons anyways. > Those runs grant a unhealthy level of sustain to any build that can use them simply due to the fact that they can vanish better than a core thief can with a better movement bonus. Ideally you could force a reveal by stepping into the trap on purpose but when ever is that a good idea. > Keep in mind not all classes have the tools you listed. (invulns) > Evades do not get you out of dragon maw if you dodge into a horrible position. > Teleports dont always promise your safety either if you get chained by spear of justice while the DH is invis which gives it no tell. > > Ideally the runes are unhealthy > Reworking it to be on heal or on elite skill only (perform x action) would be much more balanced at least that would make it fair to all professions and not exclusive to DH and Ranger which is another issue i have with it currently. > > No, every (meta) class does have a tool to deal with Dragon's Maw. Warrior: Shield Stance, Full Counter, Warhorn #5, Stability Rev: Shield Block, Staff Block, Infuse Light, the various damage reduction stuff from Jalis, Stability Guard: Shelter, RF, DH F3, porting out with sword or JI, Stability Ranger: GS Block, Lightning Reflexes (yes, used correctly, this will get you out of Maw), Stability Thief: Shadowstep, Steal, Daggerstorm Engi: Shield Block, Hammer Block, Elixir S, Stability Mesmer: Distort, various Blinks, sword #2 Ele: Obsidian Flesh, a whole array of evades and teleports Necro: Flesh Worm, Stability, or just face-tank it all with shroud and then transfer all of the burning right back at them. I haven't even mentioned cleanses here, just stuff to negate Maw. And I haven't mentioned either that if you have fast reactions then you can dodge out of Maw when it activates. It simply comes down to discipline of when you know there's a burnDH about of keeping track of Maw usage and making sure you have 1 of these available when you reckon the DH has Maw ready to use. People will eventually build this discipline, but they haven't yet. It's like learning to pressure a Reaper when it's out of shroud and kiting during, once you've got that mentality locked in then Reaper goes from looking OMGWTFBROKENOP to being entirely manageable. Any build that entirely relies on a single 40s ability to have any impact on a game, is inherently easy to counterplay by anyone paying attention.

In order to actually apply any meaningful damage, a DH's target has to stand still for at least 3 seconds. Therefore, there are only 2 circumstances under which a burn-DH can actually get a kill: 1) Enemy is brain-dead and stands still in middle of traps, symbols, SoJ 2) Enemy is trapped in Dragon's Maw Assuming you aren't brain-dead, kill-condition 1) is not viable. Therefore the ONLY kill-condition for a burn-DH is 2), i.e., Dragon's Maw. If you save a durational block, a durational evade, an invuln or a teleport for Dragon's Maw, the DH simply cannot kill you. The current "fashion" for burn-DH's comes down to this very basic lack of knowledge from those playing against it. Nevermind the fact that the current build runs 0 stunbreak, 0 stability, 0 insta-cast saves, which means it can be chain-CC'd from 100 to 0 with absolutely no way of doing anything about it, and has only 1 cleanse on 25s CD which is easily interrupted. As soon as people start learning how to counter this, it'll disappear as quickly as it appeared.

> @"darren.1064" said: > > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said: > > Seriously? Minions are your big gripe here? You can't cc, avoid, or kill minions? Or just face tank them? Even fully powered with shades, minions shouldn't be giving you that much trouble. Seriously, they don't have a return command. Lure them a few hundred feet away and bum rush their necro. It'll take about a month for them to catch up. > > > > I'll go easier on you next time, bud. <3 > > As a thief, I have a firm hatred of minions also. They hard counter thief and ranger, but I don't think minions should just get outright destroyed. I think they should just follow GW1's system and have a natural health degeneration and so every 45-60 seconds a necromancers minions die and maybe stick a 15-20 second CD after the minions die and can be animated again. The idea of a ranger complaining about minions...... just lol.

Team 1: 1430, 1470, 1450, 1570, 1480 - Total = 7400 Team 2: 1390, 1400, 1520, 1550, 1540 - Total = 7400 Team 1 has: 1 Plat 4 Golds Team 2 has: 3 Plats 2 Golds In terms of rating, the teams are perfectly balanced. But tell me with a straight face that Team 1 wouldn't be screaming "unfair" and coming on forums to whine about matchmaker "bias".

> @"Swagger.1459" said: > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" What does "complexity theory", "computer science", "physics", "super computers", "anthropic reasoning"... have to do with the tons of pve skill designs and pve mechanics being used for pvp modes? Or the glacially slow profession updates and the many years between xpacs? Or the fact that we have been told many times that things are coming, but they do not? Or the fact that the devs will not make certain needed updates because they do not want to "screw over pve balance"? Or that "profession difficulty scaling" was held as a higher design priority over other areas of professions? Or the fact that at any given time there are limited amounts of skills, traits, and gears for professions that are impactful for pvp play? Because when your IRL friends have told you to stop going on about your Masters project, you need another outlet.

> @"Swagg.9236" said: > After all, pressing a keyboard button to instantly paper someone else's rock isn't a hallmark of finesse or intelligence; so there is no reason that the opportunity to press such a button should be locked behind arbitrary time-gates and opportunity costs This doesn't make any sense. Opportunity cost is exactly what allows skillful play to emerge. Being able to secure kills without needing to load up your utility-bar/traits with all quickness, insta-cast damage, damage modifiers etc, is a sign of skill. Or, alternatively, being able to stay alive with no cleanses, and in compensation being able to have a higher impact with your damage modifiers etc, is also a sign of skill. Removing opportunity costs makes the curve flatter, not steeper.

Mesmer Staff and Deadeye Rifle should both remain non-viable, unless given a signficant re-work. They are fundamentally anti-fun to play against. The same goes for any zoo builds which function just by activating all summons then afk-ing on a node. Read carefully. Not saying they are too strong. Saying they are anti-fun. Playing whack-a-mole against rifle deadeye or chasing a phase-retreating mesmer round and round in circles is tedious in the extreme.

Usually the problem with "supports" is that the intended support functionality actually ends up unintentionally buffing an entirely different build. We saw it with side-noder Druid during HoT, we saw it with condi-Scourge, we saw it with Symbolbrand, and we see it whenever bunker-Scrapper rears its ugly head every 6 months. But with Healbreaker..... I really don't see an issue. You could argue that it's too easy to play compared to the likes of Tempest or FB, but in terms of the actual impact it has on a game, it seems pretty reasonable. And I find it considerably less obnoxious than Tempest throwing out shocking-aura every 10 seconds.

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > Why the hell does it have 6s duration? like if you do the math, you only need to maintain ~2k dps to reach the high end of average healing skills which is 6000. Not hard on a class based on aoe. If traited, it's effective cooldown is only 18s for skill wich is only surpassed by infuse light. > Anet should reduce it to 3s. In PvP it's 30s untraited, 24s traited. And it's already the worst guardian heal, Shelter, FB Mantra, DH Trap are all superior. Even signet would be better untraited, although I guess traits do make LoW better. The reason? Because if you're not in a position to burst into someone's face, then you're basically playing without a healing skill. It's incredibly easy for an enemy to see that come up and leap away or pop stealth or throw up a block, and deny you all healing.