Sobx.1758

> @"JUN YANG.4328" said: > I like PVP's legendary backpack, and PVE's legendary armor. however i never able get it. > Cause i am not good at PVP and i am able to join Raid at all due to i alway play by myself and Raid is not too welcome to newbie. this make me never able to get those item i like. And this is exactly why you won't get them I guess. Not because you actually can't, but because you don't want to put in the effort to get the item/unlock the skin. Not sure why some people think they deserve to have everything by default just because *they want it* -this is not how it works. You want rewards from x content? Learn and play through x content. This is not a new concept.

I have to admit that it wasn't.

> @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" > > @"Sobx.1758" > > they linger if you have drac. echo chosen. And still, my point was just how annoying the 5pip elite facet has become. > > And "low energy costs" doesnt mean you play with glint only. There you dont really have much options to make use of ur energy. And when was the last time you didn't use it in competitive? :D Even if you weren't runnign it (but you are), it's not much of an issue, those skills are impactful enough to still just double tap them even without the trait (that you're using anyways). Again, what are you even trying to argue here with your nonexistent scenarios? I'm not even trying to push for nerfs or w/e, but what you write is just -to put it lightly- intentionally misleading, so maybe stop avoiding facts.

> @"primatos.5413" said: > Proper balance - healthy gameplay- more fun for everyone... easy fix. Kkthxbb. I'd like to know what exactly is the magical set of *balance* changes that solves OP's (and other people in this thread) issue with toxicity. Lets go, show me what you've got :D The tools to counteract most of them are already in the game.

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, is there any game (especially MMORPG's) out there that doesnt give you that choice? I mean, I'd love to see an MMORPG that tells you on the "create your character screen", please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really, your arguments are completely moot! They're all just givens and don't contribute to _any_ game discussion, really! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why you need proper balance in pve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if you can do content with lower DPS, if you give foilks a reason to pass you on being brought to a group then there is a good chance they will becasue something is better. A lot of people are obsessed with numbers and statistics as what gets the best results. If its a small numeral difference and your at the bottom its not so bad, but if its quite noticeable between classes, then it shows there is a problem. Necromancer is particularly problematic, because it has tools that don't fit pve well and are better suited for PVP. Some of its CC have minimal effect and although boon corrupt works in fractals at higher tiers, lower tier fractals enemies have minimal buffs and minimal amount of condis to corrupt, and barrier i heard fits more practice groups for raids or casual runs with bad players. I haven't seen these kind of severe limitations on other classes, and perhaps i'm wrong since i'm not able to play scourge, i do have experience with core and reaper, as i play a lot of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These things i said ring true, because In the past of GW and recently, we had classes who's support was underwhelming and others that were outright required for raid( mesmer and guardians) This proves it was poorly adjusted. I'm not saying mesmers and guardians shouldn't be good at what they do, but there should be possibility of at least some options of others who can fill in said role. > > > > > > > I'm fortunate that my guild allows me to run scourge, and I've attempted to play other classes and specs though none as as enjoyable to me which makes it tough to get into them. Engineer being my off day choice since I find condi holo fun when I don't want to plan out every skill use on an internal mental timer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To your point. Each DPS shouldn't be 40% difference from each other. That's insane. There can be a difference in potency but at that high it does create a very negative experience and prevents new people from entering the raiding format. > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference in dps between the classes isn't stopping new players form entering the raiding format, not sure what that random claim is, but that's just not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, read my comment again. Your missing the point completely. I'm saying that @"Obtena.7952" and you (= @"Sobx.1758" ) (as well) are coming up with arguments that doesn't add anything to this discussion. Of course you can complete the game (and raids) with **any** class. But so you can in any other (MMORPG) game out there. These arguments are non-arguments and don't add to any discussion! It's the same as telling anyone in real life that they're not allowed to complain about anything, cause they're still breathing. Kind of an essential part of _life_, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, arguments like: the game is designed this way that anyone and any class can complete raids and such, don't say anything. The game wouldn't exist if this wouldn't be the case. And hopefully, now we get that out of our way, we can actually contribute to this discussion on _how_ we can improve classes that fall significantly short in certain gamemodes and maybe nerf the classes that are outperforming. Because the gap is quite big (especially in the PvE endgame)! That's for sure! > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't bring any less to the discussion than your (= @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" ), @"Axl.8924" or @"Lily.1935"'s made up arguments about classes being unusable(/not worth using) if they're not the best at something OR necro somehow being something that's stopping people from entering raids. If what we're saying doesn't add anything then neither any of these (on top of them simply not even being true), but you don't mind that because it pushes your "buff my class" request. > > > > > > > > > > Well, _these_ people you're talking about actually come with real numbers, statistics and benchmarks which you can find on several websites (from snowcrows to discretize to even in the older days: gw2raidar!), yours ... well where is your proof? In numbers I mean? Not just the hunch you have, or the anecdotal: _this one time ...._ stories. > > > > > > > > "Benchmark numbers" do absolutely nothing to support their claims and what I wrote about, how is this even relevant? It *would* be relevant *if* I questioned existance of dps/class performance differences, but that's not what I'm doing. Seriously, don't you understand you're talking about one thing and then claim that "there's proof for it!" while *proving* something else (which, again, was never anything I argued against)? > > > I don't care what _you_ are talking or arguing about. This is a thread about **balance**! > > > Let me make it really simple: Balance in GW2 = BAD; Benchmarks, statistics = proof; gamedesign **101**/for dummies ≠ (is not) proof and has nothing to do with balance, it only has to do with if a game can simply exist or not! > > > > Yup and **balance!** > **No** it doesn't! Let me bring your argumentation to its extreme, and then you hopefully figure out that it **doesn't** have to do anything with balance. What if ANet would design a class tomorrow that literally can't do anything except for standing in a corner. It has a max of 0 DPS, 0 HPS, 0% support, no mobility, etc. It can only stand in a corner, and can die ... really quickly. With your flawless argumentation, you'd say that would still be balanced, cause you can 9-man raids! That you can complete raids anyway you like and with any class you like has nothing to do with balance! It's that simple. Wow, nice strawman you've got there. You can keep trying to "bring my argumentation to its extreme" all you want, but it has nothing to do with what I've said. You can literally fill dps spots with necros and still easly complete most/all raids. Your EXTREME! example has nothing to do with what is being said in this thread, but keep dodging the facts because you don't like them and want to force random buffs. It's that simple indeed. When playing necro, you definitely don't need to get carried, because that's how the raids are balanced, not around highest dps builds. And pretty sure that's the point. > > If you *don't care what I''m talking about*, then I'm not sure why you pretend you're answering to anything I wrote while all you do is try to disregard anything factual that goes against your idea of "anet needs to buff my class!". > If you read my posts correctly, I'm far more worried about the frequency of balance updates as opposed to _what_ they will balance. Here you are, and I quote (from just a few posts back): > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > It's been FAR too long they did a real balance pass. In my opinion I don't even care anymore _what_ they change, knowing ANet it could go all directions, but the _frequency_ of pushing balance updates in this game is really REALLY low! It also gives the wrong impression imo, as the only MMORPG's that don't do frequent balance passes are the ones that are on life support. Is GW2 on life support? I surely hope not! > If you really want to know what I find **the** most distressing part of the balance in the PvE endgame, sure the terrible state of the Necro is very high on the list, but the absolute worst is actually about boons! And especially Quickness and Alacrity, obviously. The (class) distribution on them, the importance of having high uptime on them, etc. it's just really unbalanced! Nice try at deflecting (because I can't see any other reason of mentioning this quote, which was never part of our discussion), but if YOU read my post correctly along with the messages **I actually quoted and responded to**, you'll notice that what you've just quoted in this post is completely irrelevant to my answers and I never even commented on that part you've responded with **to another user (and not me)**, who **isn't even talking about anything we've been talking about prior to his post**. If you somehow still think otherwise, then just go re-read. Actually lazy version to prove yourself wrong: just ctrl+f and type in "it's been too long", never was that even part of our conversation (until now you're suddenly trying to make it as such), just you and a completely other user that wasn't interested in the previous posts, which can't be said about you, me or other people talking for past few pages. Right? Right. Sure, I want more frequent balance patches too, but it's irrelevant to suddenly bring it up now in this comment chain and pretend it was EVER part of it. > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > You still don't understand that benchmarks have nothing to do with being a proof for anything that's being said here, because nobody tries disputing the differences in dps and benchmarks are **literally** only proving that singular thing, while it does nothing for the incorrect claims from this thread that I've quoted earlier. You might dislike facts that go against your opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of what people wrote here -including you- is just made up. > Read my comment of the beginning of this post. DPS **is** a factor in balance, I would even say one of the biggest if you look at the PvE endgame. It kills opponents (being your main objective in Raids), speeds things up so you get your rewards earlier, literally breaks mechanics, even makes things easier if you consider "exhaustion factors" in longer fights (your dodges are getting depleted more often, strong heals/cleanses etc. get in cooldown, etc.), and last but not least, the timers set by ANet for a reason are literal DPS checks! > So I'd say: YES, DPS is a factor to which you should balance to! > But hey, let me repeat myself one more time: that you can complete a raid anyway you like (even by lying on the ground for the full duration of the fight) is definitely NOT a factor ANet should take into consideration when balancing the game! You seem to not understand what I wrote there. I never said dps isn't a factor in balance. You can be absolutely sure that if anyone needs to re-read a few last posts, it's you, because you lost the context of this whole comment chain. Happens when you keep responding to multiple people, but stop pretending I'm the one that need to reread, lol. In case you want to start rereading, should probably start right about here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1416417/#Comment_1416417

> @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade > > > And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs. > > > > ...how is herald not good atm? :D > > Energy costs too high, might too low, needs to use dmg traitlines for that ,which already got nerfed extremely, extremely easy to counter etc > > btw have you every placed ur herald into the pvp lobby and just activated the protection facet? If your gamplay consists of "just activating facets" and keeping them on then what are we even talking about here? And if it doesn't, then you know you're wrong and just purposfully pick pretty specific, irrelevant situation to somehow show you're underpowered while you're not.

> @"Bastrii.3047" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Bastrii.3047" said: > > > > @"Sylvyn.4750" said: > > > > Boonbeast Ranger is kinda fun...absorb the pet to get special skills and boons (I use owl), use a warhorn for more boons as well as from some of your utilities, swap to longbow for pew pew... > > > > > > Not quite the point of this thread; I understand there are other classes, but I'd like to talk more in-depth about possible changes to Dragonhunter Guardian. It has so much potential in its unlock, but it's wasted. > > > > It's not really wasted potential imo. It's just still **guardian's** espec. If you were looking for ranger build, you could play ranger. If you disliked pet... pretty much pick soulbeast and merge with the pet. Staying merged 24/7 won't be absolutely optimal, but that's probably what you were looking for. I expect your "set of changes" to be pretty much an attempt to turn dragonhunter into [merged pet]soulbeast. But that's not exactly the point of having different classes with different playstyles and capabilities. You're free to have your fantasies about the classes, obviously. > > I already looked over Soulbeast, and none of it really interests me. It feels much too close to Feral Druid from WoW, and I know a lot of people are trying really hard to push "just do spirit beast lmao" but I don't find it interesting or a big draw for me. I'm sorry. And I like Guardian baseline 10x more than I enjoy Hunter baseline, but again - people are glazing over it because Hunter has the better bow game. I think it would be more helpful all around if you stopped bringing up WoW or whatever else and instead of saying "it's too close to this class from that game", you'd actually start explaining what you like/dislike about the class/build/spec. > Let's say you wanted to ride your bike, but the rear tire is flat. You're trying to get help to fix the tire, but instead, everyone else is saying "just ride the kick scooter instead", "the bike is bad, kick scooter is better", "stop complaining about the tire, you have a kick scooter". Sorry, but this is yet another comparison that has nothing to do with gw2 or your personal preferences related to classes and gameplay patterns. Stop operating in unrelated comparisons to real life and other games, because it seems a bit pointless... I'm not trying to tell you what you want to play or what you're allowed to like/dislike. But what you've described is pretty vague and filled with "I played wow, so I knew what to expect from gw2" (not a direct quote, just a general feeling I got from reading your initial posts :p). I think that's a pretty misguided way to get into a new (for you) game. > This is the conversation everyone is trying to force right now. _I do not nor will I ever play Soulbeast Hunter._ I'm sorry. End of _that_ discussion, as it's irrelevant to the point I'm making. Nobody is trying to force anything on you. You came and said you normally enjoyed ranger and wanted some longbow gameplay with solid dps, so people respond accordingly. Pretty sure that's all there is to it.

> @"Bastrii.3047" said: > > @"Sylvyn.4750" said: > > Boonbeast Ranger is kinda fun...absorb the pet to get special skills and boons (I use owl), use a warhorn for more boons as well as from some of your utilities, swap to longbow for pew pew... > > Not quite the point of this thread; I understand there are other classes, but I'd like to talk more in-depth about possible changes to Dragonhunter Guardian. It has so much potential in its unlock, but it's wasted. It's not really wasted potential imo. It's just still **guardian's** espec. If you were looking for ranger build, you could play ranger. If you disliked pet... pretty much pick soulbeast and merge with the pet. Staying merged 24/7 won't be absolutely optimal, but that's probably what you were looking for. I expect your "set of changes" to be pretty much an attempt to turn dragonhunter into [merged pet]soulbeast. But that's not exactly the point of having different classes with different playstyles and capabilities. You're free to have your fantasies about the class, obviously. The main mistake you probably made was an expectation that you know and understand the game just because you've played other mmorpgs before.

> @"Nightcore.5621" said: > Lmao before patch it was like 19k Checked out of curiousity and the first post I've seen was confetti infusion sold for 8,5k in october. So... Fake news? Checked more offers because that guy seemed a little *fishy*, but overally it still seems they were going in and out for 8.5k+ gold for quite some time before the patch.

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, is there any game (especially MMORPG's) out there that doesnt give you that choice? I mean, I'd love to see an MMORPG that tells you on the "create your character screen", please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really, your arguments are completely moot! They're all just givens and don't contribute to _any_ game discussion, really! > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why you need proper balance in pve. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if you can do content with lower DPS, if you give foilks a reason to pass you on being brought to a group then there is a good chance they will becasue something is better. A lot of people are obsessed with numbers and statistics as what gets the best results. If its a small numeral difference and your at the bottom its not so bad, but if its quite noticeable between classes, then it shows there is a problem. Necromancer is particularly problematic, because it has tools that don't fit pve well and are better suited for PVP. Some of its CC have minimal effect and although boon corrupt works in fractals at higher tiers, lower tier fractals enemies have minimal buffs and minimal amount of condis to corrupt, and barrier i heard fits more practice groups for raids or casual runs with bad players. I haven't seen these kind of severe limitations on other classes, and perhaps i'm wrong since i'm not able to play scourge, i do have experience with core and reaper, as i play a lot of those. > > > > > > > > > > > > These things i said ring true, because In the past of GW and recently, we had classes who's support was underwhelming and others that were outright required for raid( mesmer and guardians) This proves it was poorly adjusted. I'm not saying mesmers and guardians shouldn't be good at what they do, but there should be possibility of at least some options of others who can fill in said role. > > > > > I'm fortunate that my guild allows me to run scourge, and I've attempted to play other classes and specs though none as as enjoyable to me which makes it tough to get into them. Engineer being my off day choice since I find condi holo fun when I don't want to plan out every skill use on an internal mental timer. > > > > > > > > > > To your point. Each DPS shouldn't be 40% difference from each other. That's insane. There can be a difference in potency but at that high it does create a very negative experience and prevents new people from entering the raiding format. > > > > > > > > The difference in dps between the classes isn't stopping new players form entering the raiding format, not sure what that random claim is, but that's just not true. > > > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > > > > > > > Please, read my comment again. Your missing the point completely. I'm saying that @"Obtena.7952" and you (= @"Sobx.1758" ) (as well) are coming up with arguments that doesn't add anything to this discussion. Of course you can complete the game (and raids) with **any** class. But so you can in any other (MMORPG) game out there. These arguments are non-arguments and don't add to any discussion! It's the same as telling anyone in real life that they're not allowed to complain about anything, cause they're still breathing. Kind of an essential part of _life_, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > > Again, arguments like: the game is designed this way that anyone and any class can complete raids and such, don't say anything. The game wouldn't exist if this wouldn't be the case. And hopefully, now we get that out of our way, we can actually contribute to this discussion on _how_ we can improve classes that fall significantly short in certain gamemodes and maybe nerf the classes that are outperforming. Because the gap is quite big (especially in the PvE endgame)! That's for sure! > > > > > > > > Oh, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't bring any less to the discussion than your (= @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" ), @"Axl.8924" or @"Lily.1935"'s made up arguments about classes being unusable(/not worth using) if they're not the best at something OR necro somehow being something that's stopping people from entering raids. If what we're saying doesn't add anything then neither any of these (on top of them simply not even being true), but you don't mind that because it pushes your "buff my class" request. > > > > > > Well, _these_ people you're talking about actually come with real numbers, statistics and benchmarks which you can find on several websites (from snowcrows to discretize to even in the older days: gw2raidar!), yours ... well where is your proof? In numbers I mean? Not just the hunch you have, or the anecdotal: _this one time ...._ stories. > > > > "Benchmark numbers" do absolutely nothing to support their claims and what I wrote about, how is this even relevant? It *would* be relevant *if* I questioned existance of dps/class performance differences, but that's not what I'm doing. Seriously, don't you understand you're talking about one thing and then claim that "there's proof for it!" while *proving* something else (which, again, was never anything I argued against)? > I don't care what _you_ are talking or arguing about. This is a thread about **balance**! > Let me make it really simple: Balance in GW2 = BAD; Benchmarks, statistics = proof; gamedesign **101**/for dummies ≠ (is not) proof and has nothing to do with balance, it only has to do with if a game can simply exist or not! Yup and **balance!** is exactly what I'm commenting on. If you *don't care what I''m talking about*, then I'm not sure why you pretend you're answering to anything I wrote while all you do is try to disregard anything factual that goes against your idea of "anet needs to buff my class!". You still don't understand that benchmarks have nothing to do with being a proof for anything that's being said here, because nobody tries disputing the differences in dps and benchmarks are **literally** only proving that singular thing, while it does nothing for the incorrect claims from this thread that I've quoted earlier. You might dislike facts that go against your opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of what people wrote here -including you- is just made up.

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > > > > > Lol, is there any game (especially MMORPG's) out there that doesnt give you that choice? I mean, I'd love to see an MMORPG that tells you on the "create your character screen", please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > Really, your arguments are completely moot! They're all just givens and don't contribute to _any_ game discussion, really! > > > > > > > > This is why you need proper balance in pve. > > > > > > > > Even if you can do content with lower DPS, if you give foilks a reason to pass you on being brought to a group then there is a good chance they will becasue something is better. A lot of people are obsessed with numbers and statistics as what gets the best results. If its a small numeral difference and your at the bottom its not so bad, but if its quite noticeable between classes, then it shows there is a problem. Necromancer is particularly problematic, because it has tools that don't fit pve well and are better suited for PVP. Some of its CC have minimal effect and although boon corrupt works in fractals at higher tiers, lower tier fractals enemies have minimal buffs and minimal amount of condis to corrupt, and barrier i heard fits more practice groups for raids or casual runs with bad players. I haven't seen these kind of severe limitations on other classes, and perhaps i'm wrong since i'm not able to play scourge, i do have experience with core and reaper, as i play a lot of those. > > > > > > > > These things i said ring true, because In the past of GW and recently, we had classes who's support was underwhelming and others that were outright required for raid( mesmer and guardians) This proves it was poorly adjusted. I'm not saying mesmers and guardians shouldn't be good at what they do, but there should be possibility of at least some options of others who can fill in said role. > > > I'm fortunate that my guild allows me to run scourge, and I've attempted to play other classes and specs though none as as enjoyable to me which makes it tough to get into them. Engineer being my off day choice since I find condi holo fun when I don't want to plan out every skill use on an internal mental timer. > > > > > > To your point. Each DPS shouldn't be 40% difference from each other. That's insane. There can be a difference in potency but at that high it does create a very negative experience and prevents new people from entering the raiding format. > > > > The difference in dps between the classes isn't stopping new players form entering the raiding format, not sure what that random claim is, but that's just not true. > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > > > Please, read my comment again. Your missing the point completely. I'm saying that @"Obtena.7952" and you (= @"Sobx.1758" ) (as well) are coming up with arguments that doesn't add anything to this discussion. Of course you can complete the game (and raids) with **any** class. But so you can in any other (MMORPG) game out there. These arguments are non-arguments and don't add to any discussion! It's the same as telling anyone in real life that they're not allowed to complain about anything, cause they're still breathing. Kind of an essential part of _life_, isn't it? > > > > > > Again, arguments like: the game is designed this way that anyone and any class can complete raids and such, don't say anything. The game wouldn't exist if this wouldn't be the case. And hopefully, now we get that out of our way, we can actually contribute to this discussion on _how_ we can improve classes that fall significantly short in certain gamemodes and maybe nerf the classes that are outperforming. Because the gap is quite big (especially in the PvE endgame)! That's for sure! > > > > Oh, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't bring any less to the discussion than your (= @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" ), @"Axl.8924" or @"Lily.1935"'s made up arguments about classes being unusable(/not worth using) if they're not the best at something OR necro somehow being something that's stopping people from entering raids. If what we're saying doesn't add anything then neither any of these (on top of them simply not even being true), but you don't mind that because it pushes your "buff my class" request. > > Well, _these_ people you're talking about actually come with real numbers, statistics and benchmarks which you can find on several websites (from snowcrows to discretize to even in the older days: gw2raidar!), yours ... well where is your proof? In numbers I mean? Not just the hunch you have, or the anecdotal: _this one time ...._ stories. "Benchmark numbers" do absolutely nothing to support their claims and what I wrote about, how is this even relevant? It *would* be relevant *if* I questioned existance of dps/class performance differences, but that's not what I'm doing. Seriously, don't you understand you're talking about one thing and then claim that "there's proof for it!" while *proving* something else (which, again, was never anything I argued against)? >But you don't mind, do you, cause you can win (read: kill) any discussion with paramount truths like the sun rises in the east, 1+1=2 and gamedesign 101 is that you can complete any raid with any class. Real contribution, that is! If I can "win an argument" with truths then it's only because it's indeed true. You don't like the truth working against your opinion, so you'll dismiss it, but not sure how that changes anything about what was being said. On the other hand the claims I've quoted in my previous post are still simply false.

> @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > Lol, is there any game (especially MMORPG's) out there that doesnt give you that choice? I mean, I'd love to see an MMORPG that tells you on the "create your character screen", please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > Really, your arguments are completely moot! They're all just givens and don't contribute to _any_ game discussion, really! > > > > This is why you need proper balance in pve. > > > > Even if you can do content with lower DPS, if you give foilks a reason to pass you on being brought to a group then there is a good chance they will becasue something is better. A lot of people are obsessed with numbers and statistics as what gets the best results. If its a small numeral difference and your at the bottom its not so bad, but if its quite noticeable between classes, then it shows there is a problem. Necromancer is particularly problematic, because it has tools that don't fit pve well and are better suited for PVP. Some of its CC have minimal effect and although boon corrupt works in fractals at higher tiers, lower tier fractals enemies have minimal buffs and minimal amount of condis to corrupt, and barrier i heard fits more practice groups for raids or casual runs with bad players. I haven't seen these kind of severe limitations on other classes, and perhaps i'm wrong since i'm not able to play scourge, i do have experience with core and reaper, as i play a lot of those. > > > > These things i said ring true, because In the past of GW and recently, we had classes who's support was underwhelming and others that were outright required for raid( mesmer and guardians) This proves it was poorly adjusted. I'm not saying mesmers and guardians shouldn't be good at what they do, but there should be possibility of at least some options of others who can fill in said role. > I'm fortunate that my guild allows me to run scourge, and I've attempted to play other classes and specs though none as as enjoyable to me which makes it tough to get into them. Engineer being my off day choice since I find condi holo fun when I don't want to plan out every skill use on an internal mental timer. > > To your point. Each DPS shouldn't be 40% difference from each other. That's insane. There can be a difference in potency but at that high it does create a very negative experience and prevents new people from entering the raiding format. The difference in dps between the classes isn't stopping new players form entering the raiding format, not sure what that random claim is, but that's just not true. > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > Please, read my comment again. Your missing the point completely. I'm saying that @"Obtena.7952" and you (= @"Sobx.1758" ) (as well) are coming up with arguments that doesn't add anything to this discussion. Of course you can complete the game (and raids) with **any** class. But so you can in any other (MMORPG) game out there. These arguments are non-arguments and don't add to any discussion! It's the same as telling anyone in real life that they're not allowed to complain about anything, cause they're still breathing. Kind of an essential part of _life_, isn't it? > > Again, arguments like: the game is designed this way that anyone and any class can complete raids and such, don't say anything. The game wouldn't exist if this wouldn't be the case. And hopefully, now we get that out of our way, we can actually contribute to this discussion on _how_ we can improve classes that fall significantly short in certain gamemodes and maybe nerf the classes that are outperforming. Because the gap is quite big (especially in the PvE endgame)! That's for sure! Oh, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't bring any less to the discussion than your (= @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" ), @"Axl.8924" or @"Lily.1935"'s made up arguments about classes being unusable(/not worth using) if they're not the best at something OR necro somehow being something that's stopping people from entering raids. If what we're saying doesn't add anything then neither any of these (on top of them simply not even being true), but you don't mind that because it pushes your "buff my class" request. Again, arguments like: something is stronger than something else so we just need to buff it or it's unusable/stopping people from getting into content is simply incorrect. > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > Please, read my comment again. Your missing the point completely. I'm saying that @"Obtena.7952" and you (as well) are coming up with arguments that doesn't add anything to this discussion. Of course you can complete the game (and raids) with **any** class. But so you can in any other (MMORPG) game out there. These arguments are non-arguments and don't add to any discussion! It's the same as telling anyone in real life that they're not allowed to complain about anything, cause they're still breathing. Kind of an essential part of _life_ now, isn't it? > > > > Again, arguments like: the game is designed this way that anyone and any class can complete raids and such, don't say anything. The game wouldn't exist if this wouldn't be the case. And hopefully, now we get that out of our way, we can actually contribute to this discussion on _how_ we can improve classes that fall significantly short in certain gamemodes and maybe nerf the classes that are outperforming. Because the gap is quite big (especially in the PvE endgame)! That's for sure! > > I saw obtenna arguing with jski on why eles are fine and nothing should c hange and it was exactly like this here with obtenna arguing everything is hunky dory there is no problem nec is fine being lower than everyone else and its barrier support which is only semi useful in raids for when you are training but then becomes pointless is fine. It's funny, because the thread you're talking about was literally claiming that *ele has no class mechanic* (which, again, is wrong) and it was used by that jski person as a ramp up for "buff my dmg" too, which was irrelevant to the thread and the claim about class mechanic.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > Just stop trying to defend the removal of a freaking dodge, if this happened to a Firebrand or a Warrior because "ooh 5 seconds weapon switch cooldown is too OP - we need a trade off", Anet would be out of business by the next day how much abuse the cummunity would give them. It's almost as if that dodge is directly related to the espec mechanics and its problematic areas, but suddenly you're comming up with "taking away a dodge because of weapon swap cd", what are you even talking about right now? :D > There is no valid reason to have 1 dodge when the entire game is based on everyone having 2. No, it's not, what is this random claim you came up with? >If they really thought this was a good idea they would have removed it in PvE too, but in PvE, mirage can still dodge twice. I wonder why... PvE is not competitive, mobs don't care. So no, that's just another weirdly disconnected theory.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > > > > @"Moradorin.6217" said: > > > > > > > As I recall, people didn't like it when Mirage could time its skills to chain blocks, evade utiliies, dodge evades, and distortions. Well timed play could make it pretty hard to damage. That said, it always has solid counters when facing skilled opponents. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet permaevade Daredevil with 3 base dodges is perfectly fine and doesn't need a nerf. > > > > > > > > > > Hehe Sadly, Mes cant have nice things ) > > > > > > > > ...except when "permaevade daredevil" was actually what you're claiming it was, it got nerfed too? > > > > > > > > > @"Salt Mode.3780" said: > > > > > > @"Woltarion.6829" said: > > > > > > > @"Every day pon.5386" said: > > > > > > > Who is to know if the profession will be updated by Mesmer players? The profession runs the risk of being worse off after another haphazard revision, so maybe the profession is safer & better off forgotten ?‍♀️ > > > > > > > > > > > > How could Mesmer become worse ? We just want our second dodge back > > > > > > > > > > we just want a CORE mechanic back > > > > > > > > Play CORE mesmer then? > > > > > > Core mechanic = dodge. Nothing to do with core traits. > > > > I know, but the especs can and do influence core mechanics too. I didn't write anything about traits, so not sure what you're responding to. > > Right, i meant specs, not traits. My bad. It was late. > > Core mechanic means a mechanic that is universal across all professions, meaning dodge. > Yes, some especs can change it such as Mirage and Daredevil, but it should never fall below 2 for the simple reason that all the AOE sizes, all the skills, specs and indeed traits are balanced around being able to use 2 dodges, to either dodge once then have 1 available or double dodge to get out of a large AOE. Removing the ability to double dodge and having the 1 remaining be on such a long cooldown killed the Mirage. Not to mention how jarring it is to have to re-learn what everyone else takes for granted, and even if you kinda learn it, you're still at such a huge disadvantage that it's not even funny. So what you're doing right now is claim that you know what the game is *balanced around* (being "two dodges") better than anet themselves do, which is not only pretty random, but also false. If they were to revert that nerf, then it wouldn't be "because the game needs you to have 2 dodges to work", but because they determined the spec is too weak and needs help. And mirage isn't really dead, it's just not as easly spammy as it initially was.

> @"Laurencius.9258" said: > @Seductive.5741 I stand corrected and I stand proven correct. Gandara suposedly is full with 291 players, yet Baruch Bay has a whopping 516 players and is only very high - it never locks. It is also interesting the other servers get to have more players than Gandara - Seafarer's Rest gets to have 502, Underworld gets 427 (and isn't even full), Riverside 330, Miller's Sound 336, Piken Square 341, Gunnar's Hold 373 - no wonder Gandara is always outnumbered. This is solid proof Anet has it's thumbs on the scale against Gandara and isn't even troubling themselves to hide it. Very valuable info this - I cannot thank you enough. Aww you don't even understand how to interpret what you see, "stand proven correct", oof. > @"Laurencius.9258" said: > @Seductive.5741 If that's true, why don't the numbers change? The numbers don't change because people registered mostly during the anet-promoted christmas giveaway on that site. Then people can opt in and out of sharing their account details. Who cares why it doesn't change, what matters is that it is not the actual number of players. > @"Laurencius.9258" said: >Whenever you go into WVW there are maybe 5 Gandara players vs 50 players on both the other servers. How does 5 people constitute a overpopulated? Please explain Zok, since you have all the answers. Also the answer to this is pretty simple: what you just wrote is false. Keep overexaggerating, I'm sure that will help you make a valid point.

> @"Virdo.1540" said: > Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade > And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs. ...how is herald not good atm? :D

> @"voltaicbore.8012" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"voltaicbore.8012" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > Maybe read what you were answering to and what I've quoted. ARM cpus aren't equivalent to apple computers and you're randomly jumping between the two. :( > > > > > > Maybe that's true, but in the context of this discussion I think it's forgivable. After all, the reason Mac client is being dropped like a poop-stained rock is because of ARM incompatibility, so for the purposes of discussing GW2 and ARM, we might as well be discussing GW2 and Mac. > > > > No, it's not, because it's not apple exclusive and if/when it becomes the norm, it won't be equivalent to "apple owning x% of the market", suddenly being "gaming friendly" or whatever you've tried to claim there. You're talking about two different things and claim one proves the other, but it doesn't, all while disregarding apple practices from the past and present. And yes, that is exactly what **currently** makes it "hypothetical hopes for the future". > > Maybe you're not an *apple fanboy*, sure, I don't know you so I shouldn't make this assumption. But that's pretty much how you behave in this thread imo, so I might have easly misjudged. :D > > That was the first time I've posted in this thread, I think you're confusing me with @"hobotnicax.7918". We _do_ have the same avatar, I guess lol. Not sure you read the rest of my post, either. lmao, yup -I've noticed the same avatar, didn't pay attention to the nickname and assumed it's the same person continuing. :no_mouth: But still what I wrote there stays all the same for me. I don't think it's exactly "forgivable", because these are two separate claims and what he answered there isn't really directly supporting his previous claims. Simply *being based on arm* probably isn't enough to make apple gaming friendly all of the sudden, not to mention about being leading power in that direction. Yes, I've read the rest of that post as well and it just made me confused why *he* would suddenly go from claiming he's certain it'll happen to changing *his* opinion to "maybe it will maybe it won't", but decided it's not even worth digging deeper into. Now it makes a bit more sense to me :D

> @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say you can't i said that its encouraging people not to pick a class due to limits for raids. That is all since i don't want to repeat myself. > > > > > > > > Was I responding to your post here? > > > > > > > > On the other hand, you've left the post where I was actually talking to you, so I'm a bit confused about what you're saying here along with that condescending(?) "don't want to repeat myself". > > > > > > Well i mean repeat as in: I've said the same thing in this thread to explain myself and waste people's time. > > > > > > Was i condescending? if it came out that way i'm sorry it wasn't my intention to. > > > > ...but you understand that you were answering to the post that wasn't even responding to you, which makes that "I don't want to repeat myself" even more out of place? > > I wasn't sure since i got a notification of your post which only tends to happen if: > > A: you are responding to me. > B: responding to someone responding to me. > C: if you respond to a thread i make. It pings you if you're mentioned anywhere in the post, which also includes any *quote inside quote inside q...*. To be sure, next time just read the post along with the nickname of the author of the included quote.

> @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > > > > > I didn't say you can't i said that its encouraging people not to pick a class due to limits for raids. That is all since i don't want to repeat myself. > > > > Was I responding to your post here? > > > > On the other hand, you've left the post where I was actually talking to you, so I'm a bit confused about what you're saying here along with that condescending(?) "don't want to repeat myself". > > Well i mean repeat as in: I've said the same thing in this thread to explain myself and waste people's time. > > Was i condescending? if it came out that way i'm sorry it wasn't my intention to. ...but you understand that you were answering to the post that wasn't even responding to you, which makes that "I don't want to repeat myself" even more out of place?

> @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out. > > I didn't say you can't i said that its encouraging people not to pick a class due to limits for raids. That is all since i don't want to repeat myself. Was I responding to your post here? On the other hand, you've left the post where I was actually talking to you, so I'm a bit confused about what you're saying here along with that condescending(?) "don't want to repeat myself".

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... > > Yes > > on one side ele has a mechanic > > on another side ele has no mechanic ...and the other side claiming ele has no mechanic somehow tries to argue "it has no mechanic, because the core class got nerfed in the past". Safe to say the argument behind his claim is compeletely disconnected.

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. >please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... But that's not true in this game and in this case, what are you even talking about right now? If you're suggesting that you can't complete it with necro (or that it's even remotely hard), then that's just false. If that's not what you're suggesting, then I don't understand what point you're trying to make by typing something like this out.

Lets start with saying I don't think it's broken, but just would like to understand more about these claims: > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > * Stealth travel doesn't have enough tradeoffs, Stealthing for travel means you're not mounted, so you're slower on top of having to use your resources to keep being in stealth though? How is this not enough? >and the fact you have build choice puts you above a lot of other classes already who are stuck at only one build Why exactly are they stuck at only one build?

> @"voltaicbore.8012" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > Maybe read what you were answering to and what I've quoted. ARM cpus aren't equivalent to apple computers and you're randomly jumping between the two. :( > > Maybe that's true, but in the context of this discussion I think it's forgivable. After all, the reason Mac client is being dropped like a poop-stained rock is because of ARM incompatibility, so for the purposes of discussing GW2 and ARM, we might as well be discussing GW2 and Mac. No, it's not, because it's not apple exclusive and if/when it becomes the norm, it won't be equivalent to "apple owning x% of the market", suddenly being "gaming friendly" or whatever you've tried to claim there. You're talking about two different things and claim one proves the other, but it doesn't, all while disregarding apple practices from the past and present. And yes, that is exactly what **currently** makes it "hypothetical hopes for the future". Maybe you're not an *apple fanboy*, sure, I don't know you so I shouldn't make this assumption. But that's pretty much how you behave in this thread imo, so I might have easly misjudged. :D

> @"hobotnicax.7918" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"hobotnicax.7918" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"hobotnicax.7918" said: > > > > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > > > Apple and big player in gaming dont go together > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to be proven wrong in the following year or two ;) > > > > > > > > Isn't it great when people try to use their hypothetical hopes for the future as an argument? :) > > > > > > I mean... Nvidia must be dumb af to had bought ARM for 40b dollars then, hypothetical hopes and all. > > > And Microsoft giving haste to Windows 10 ARM development is probably pointless as well. > > > Apple going all out on ARM CPUs to replace almost their whole PROFESSIONAL line of computers along with consumer line. > > > > > > But they must have hypothetical hopes for the future. These are irrelevant companies, right? - not like that they more or less shaped the modern computing era or anything like that. > > > > Too bad that has nothing to do with your previous posts :( > > And I'm sure you weren't just apple fanboing for the past x years either just like you do now, right? :D > > What in my previous posts doesn't say the same thing as I'm saying now? Please, enlighten me. Maybe read what you were answering to and what I've quoted. ARM cpus aren't equivalent to apple computers and you're randomly jumping between the two. :(