ArmageddonAsh.6430

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Tks for the correction, had to play it again and see why i tough they were destroyed, for some reason i tough they were destroyable like sumons, i played with ventari 2 months ago, should remember it wasnt destroyable..but for some reason....

>

> yeah testing against group with lots of scourges wasnt the ideal test ground, it is a pain, had to swap back to Jalis, that thign with mediocre to decent groups on both sides is unplayable due combat movement required.

Thankfully it isnt, its bad enough designed as it is, imagine if it was killable as well lol

I think the bigger problem with Ventari is the tablet design. Its poorly designed in a game that is about movjng, fast paced combat and everything to have to keep moving the tablet every few seconds. In my opinion, they should remove the tablet and make the effects happen round the Revenant. The Heal would need to be changed. Maybe have the Heal summon a passive tablet that follows you and heals and keep the elite so that it is used to destroy the tablet but the utilities proc around yourself rather than the tablet. It has some good skills but its too fiddly and too micro management heavy for this kind of game. Would actually work in a game like WoW where boss fights and such arent all about moving every 2seconds and such but here, it just doesnt work as well.

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Tongku.5326" said:

> > Are tablet revs still capable or did they get completely put away due to their condi vulnreability ?

> >

>

> it simply has no place in the current gameplay, due scourge + aoe spam range and rush when stackign in zerg, simply cause tablet takes damage easilly and it is needed to be on the action where spam happens, and it has a stupidly short heal range. (ANet borked their own gameplay all over again..as usual...)

>

> I would not say condi vulnerability, due Purifying_Essence, but thi sskills needs its resource cost lowered to 20-15

>

> Sometimes i really wonder if Anet dev's really know what they are doing and why they cant see the issues has many players do...

Since when does Ventari take damage? Are you sure you're not getting confused with the Renegade summons? Ventari Tablet doesnt take damage. It is however rather poorly designed for fast paced, constantly moving combat. When combined with Mal and some of the traits, it could be SEMI-decent. Remove/transfer like 4-5 conditions on legend swap, decent Resistance (suckas against scourge though :/) condition removal on Staff, on Ventari skills and elite

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> Unless something drastically changed Mesmer was in the bottom 3 classes played and they still got a rework, since it makes way more sense to rework classes that aren’t liked than to rework something that everyone already likes.

Yet they were EVERYWHERE in PvP and WvW. They were kinda meh in PvE due to the Phantasms and guess what got changed? Elsewhere they were very popular. It would be interesting to see how many of each class are played on a weekly basis for EACH mode. They got a rework because the Phantasm mechanic was DIABOLICAL in PvE, most things would be either dead before then Phantasms could do anything or die to the endless amounts of AoE everywhere.

> @"Vino.7923" said:

> Because if Rev gets tuned up, more people will want to play it ergo more people will buy the expansion! Everybody wins!

Thats not how it works. Changes happen to either classes/specs/mechanics that are constantly complained at being overpowered or ones that are played enough make changing mechanics worth the time and effort. They see Revenant, they see its hardly played. They see that its not maoned at for being overpowered (though Herald is still cheese mode imo) so while the class NEEDS the work, they dont see any reason to do it.

Anet works from the logic that if its played its worth doing. A class that is barely played isnt worth fixing. I mean look at all the effort they went through to RUIN the class before it was even released anyway with the total chainsaw madness they took to Mal, its NOTHING like it was meant to be. yet they only did half a job (if that) at changing it leaving many traits and effects from the previous version there showing what we COULD have had.

Nope. Nope. Nope. That would be rather unfair on those of us that cant stand the PvE in this game. I play WvW only. So saying "tough luck" to those that dont have them are the reason why they SHOULDN'T be added. What about those that cant afford PoF or for some reason dont want PoF or like me dont play the PvE???

> @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> Remove Protection from Herald elite.

>

> Replace it with Alacrity.

>

> Hay guys, I fixed Herald!

>

Fixed? You insanely broken and then screwed against things like Necro and their Boon corrupt lol

> @"Will.9785" said:

> Please make it happen. It would be awesome if we could channel him after just killing him and we need a good power weapon with some hard-hitting utility skills.

If we got Balt, they would give us Dagger. We all know it lol

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> The way I see it Herald is the only legend which delivers the expected performance in terms of energy cost, and the fact that in dps test does "so-so" and isn't used in raids proves that doesn't _"over provides"_ at all.

Raids. This game isn't just about raids though and in other areas it is VASTLY over toned compared to base Revenant or Renegade. Especially when it comes to PvP and WvW. I would happily accept a nerf to Herald if it meant meaningful buffs to Renegade and base Revenant.

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> Check good ele players as Cellofrag and then tell me how "unuseful" their skills are. Currently condition Rev (core/Herald/Renegade) is not viable in duels or roaming (if decent players of the same level are fighting) because duelling classes can disengage and put pressure at range without the Rev being able to counterstrike (despite we can currently wield two weapon sets and theoretycaly we have up to two ranged weapons to use (none of them work against humans if condi stats are used).

Ele is the first class that i made during the very first beta before release. I know about the class. Many of the skills are underpowered with longer cool down downs DUE to how many skills there are. Take staff for example. Meteor Shower. That gets nerfed and look at the DPS loss. You missed the part where i said MOST of the skills arent as good, which is correct there are too many filler skills that you could totally ignore and still do well as an Ele without needing to touch. This goes for most of the weapons and elements. They all have skills that you dont need to use.

Herald still does well. Renegade was dead before release and base is okay, just okay. The reason for the most part they arent really that good for roaming, they SUCK against conditions and conditions are EVERYWHERE when you roam. Their mobility is kinda meh as well. Sustain CAN be good but takes much more than other classes to get decent sustain. That is where Herald comes in, It's just got more sustain built in via traits, Glint, Shield and such.

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> What is propossed (changing qualities of the weapon skills based in each legend) was only done with the Weaver, which got a massive amount of skills. I don't see ANet doing again the effort (remember: they released the class with only one underwater weapon and 10 utility skills). The only skills which "change" based on the active legend are the ones from the trident and the traits _Spirit Boon_ and _Song of the Mist_ and the only changes that those (and the trident skills) do make is to add a boon or a debuff on proc when the skill is used. That's **minimal** , is no the same level of work which was put in the design of Ele's attunement with his weapons. You think that they will remake the 7 ground skills x4 legends (assuming that some of the current skills would remain as their are in at least one legend). 28 new skills is just too much for a class which can't use Unrelenting Assault in PvE without the fear of becoming trapped inside a wall.

No it wasn't Weaver gets totally new skills depending on the element at use, something like this WON'T happen for Revenant. Not a chance. That would be too much work for too little pay off for Anet to really bother doing. They could do something LIKE it for Elite specs, because well they need to sell those expansions. The best bet that Revenant could get is having the skills be the same, same visuals and such but different Legends affect them in slightly different ways - Conditions from Mal, Life Leach from Shiro and such. We wont get WHOLE new weapon skills based on the Legend.

Yeah its not the same as what Ele has, the difference being, Ele hasnt had that change come during the game. That is how it was built. From the start. They wont do a Revenant refresh that does anything like that. Not a chance.

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> No, if they go the way they designed the trident they would nerf every skill we currently have in exchange of nothing, and would be a net lose in power and survability as happened with this spear/trident fiasco. I don't salute the new weapon, because the last Monday underwater Revenant was significatively stronger that now. "But the trident is fun"... you known what's fun? To win. Form should follow function; a "fun skill" that underperforms remains unused. That's why you barely find Revs which crafted a legendary shortbow whereas there's tons of Mesmers wielding legendary shields.

In exchange of nothing? The nerf would be VERY debatable. Depending on how deep they could go with how Legends affect the weapon skills. It wouldn't be a NERF it would be a buff. You want a Condition build but dont want to rely 100% on Mace and Axe? Well now you could equip say the Staff and get it hitting and proccing conditions. You could get the swords proccing conditions, the Hammer proccing Conditions. You like the Mace and Axe but want a defensive build? Then equip Ventari and boom. You get healing effects on your attacks and abilities. Shiro would grant Life Leach, so little less healing but proccing Life Leach and damage to enemies.

You have proof of Rev being stronger before? I have seen videos of the new Trident melting people. It seems very odd that so many people are saying that the pre-change Spear was stronger others saying that Trident is stronger. Too be fair, i dont really care as i find underwater combat VERY tedious, boring and just plain lazy designed and then forgotten.

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> I think if that were to happen, they would have to do one or more of the following:

> -Significantly change the mechanics and functionality of the weapons for each legend, effectively creating new skills for each of them rather than just differing effects.

> -Give us 3-4 active legends rather than 2.

> -Create more legend utility skills to allow for more diversity to make up for where the weapons lack.

> -Reduce the cooldowns on most weapon skills.

>

> Simply adding minor effects to each weapon skill based on the legend would not be enough because they would still be the same skills at their core. It would not make up for what would be lost by only having one weapon set.

>

> Just my two cents.

Why would they need to do pretty much any of that? The mechanics of the weapons work fine as they are. I wouldn't even say they would need to be changed. You would have plenty of options if you wanted a MH and OF then you have damage, mobility, conditions, CC. If you had a 2Hander, you would have a VERY powerful hitting ranged weapon that can still do great damage in Melee with projectile destruction, leap and you also have a Melee weapon with CC, Healing, condition removal. I would say Staff i think would need tweaks to its healing because it does kinda suck but that could be improved with the buffs that Legends grant weapons. So they could have Ventari granting healing for attacking, they could have Shiro granting less healing but doing life leeching attacks thus more DPS and so on.

No thanks to 3 or 4 legends, we dont need ANOTHER ele class just reversed. I would agree with having more Utility skills for each legend as well though, has been wanted and in my opinion needed since release.

What would you really be missing? Unless you are taking Hammer and something else. If you dont take Hammer (or short bow) then you are 100% melee anyway. The weapon skills would still be the same. So you would still have the option for CC, Blocks, Healing and all of that taking a MH and an OH. You would surely be BETTER off as you would be able to get Conditions for example when using other weapons than Mace and Axe. So you could still apply condition pressure when not running Mace and Axe for example.

Well, i can confirm this DIDN'T work for me, still hangs. Still acts as if i am playing. Can hear people, sound effects from using abilities and such but the screen is still visibly stuck on the loading screen :(

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> Once you select your weapon loadout the Elementalist has 20 fixed skills plus 5 selectable skills; a non swappable weapon design in Rev would give us 20 fixed skills, making us a less flexible clone of a class which already exist. Why not kits as the Engineer or tomes as the Guardian instead?

You fail to understand. Quantity isn't as good as Quality. Yes Ele has a TON of skills. The problem is most of them aren't that great or useful. There for the sake of being there. Underpowered with long cool downs. I would take Revenent losing weapon swap and the legends improving/changing the weapon skills than what we have at the moment.

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> I disagree. Revs are the least popular class in the game, and are the most restricted in terms of how one is able to play them. They almost definitely need a "revamp" more than other classes, who may at most need some tweaks.

The least popular, therefore. Why would Anet waste time on them? If anything. Revenant would be the LAST class to get any revamps. They "work" as well as Anet bothers to care that they do. They dont get cries of being broken or anything like Mesmer and Thief does.

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"BadSanta.6527" said:

> > I love it but in order to make every wellness like this I think revenet should not have weapon swap

>

> That would make most of the weapons useless for combat vs other players, due most of them lack any defense and the class doesn't let you to select utilities to cover the weakness in your weapon skills (as other classes do).

>

> Why are that much people (which doesn't play Rev) obsessed into turning the Rev in a pure PvE boon bot (which isn't as good as other boon bots, anyway).

This could be quite (easily???) solved by having it so that the Legends change aspects of some skills as well. Adding blinds, blocks or what ever to some skills. Some weapons i dont think would need it Off hand Sword has blocks, Staff has blinds, projection destruction, Knockbacks and such. Hammer has projectile Destruction, i think the weapons COULD work with no weapon swap. Would slight changes be needed? yes. But they could be done and if they actually added a more thought out weapon aspect change based on Legend could work.

Thanks, i will give that a try and see what happens

The Buff: Add the trident mechanic to all other weapons, make it so each legend affects weapons different Conditions (Mal) Life steal (Shiro) Healing (Ventari) Boons (Herald) and so on.

The nerf: Remove weapon swap.

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> That should be the idea...

> Don't forget that it doesn't mean it does the same effect on all weapons. So on more defensive weapons (like staff or shield) it would have defensive effects, on more agressive weapons, like sword main had and axe it would focus on more agressive and debilitating effects.

Yeah that would be good BUT this is Anet, when ever do they take the hard, long route? They would just slap the same mechanic, same conditions on every weapon and say: Done. Something that could be done is remove ALL special effects, healing, boons, conditions from weapons and then make it that Legends define how the weapon plays. For example. You use Mace. If you run with Mal then it becomes a Condition weapon (like now) but run it with Shiro and it becomes a life stealing weapon and so on, the question would be about skill mechanics. Something like this would be cool, making it so that weapons changed based on the legend. Remove the weapon swap. Take it back towards more of the pre-release aspect.

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> (Missing the point and not realizing Firebrands would still be Light years ahead, making the whole argument moot)

> (Bonus irony: Even if Ventari could be used underwater, its self heal potential is low to begin with)

we are talking about ALL weapons. That includes weapons on the land, the land where legends like Ventari CAN be used. Why would you assume this whole talk is only about under water combat? How exactly would improving Revenant have anything to do with another class? It doesnt matter how good or bad another class is when we are talking about Revenant. Just Revenant.

Again, talking about what could happen. If changes were made. That doesnt mean that changes to legends themselves wouldnt be made as well. The self healing of Ventari isnt bad at all. Could it be better? yes. Could they improve and redesign the rather annoying tablet mechanic? Yes. Rtaher than say "oh it will still be rubbish" isnt really helping anything. If it would be rubbish - explain why. Explain what YOU would change to improve things?

Recently, since the last few updates. The game refuses to fully load into WvW. It will partially load in that i can HEAR the WvW sounds, movements even of myself using abilities but the screen will still be stuck on the loading screen? Has anyone else experienced this, I have maybe managed to get into WvW like twice in the last few days. Trying countless times before i have given up. I have tried 5-10 times back to back before giving up. Its making it near impossible to play the game :/-

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> It's not "good for healers" because ventari isn't one of the 3 possible underwater legends... On land you'd have one effect per legend.

Its not good for healers because condition application isn't what healers need. If maybe it was made to be a different effect per a legend. Something like:

Mal = Conditions

Shiro = Life Leech

Ventari = Healing

Dwarf = ????

Glint = Boon(s) ???

If it was something like this, then maybe. But having them ALL be conditions would be SO boring...

Good for Power, Hybrid or Condi builds...Maybe. Not good for support. Not good for healers or anything else. I havent played with it too much but so far, while its fun and nice that it changes aspects its still not a perfect weapon. This sort of mechanic wouldn't work for weapons like Staff which is meant to be a more support/heal kinda weapon. What conditions would it grant a weapon that doesnt suit having conditions? Cant say "oh this weapon is now perfvect - it procs conditions" because not all weapons should proc them.

Maybe they could give different weapons different mechanics. Like Mace and Axe - apply different conditions. Maybe Sword could grant different types of health leeching, like Shiro it would be based on number of Vul stacks on the enemy with Mal it would be based on the number of conditions you have on yourself. This sort of thing. now this would be cool. Hard to implement, hard to balance. Impossible to have due to it being Anet but somehting like that could work and would be fun. Maybe even taking AWAY the weapon swap would be a good idea and adding this sort of feature in, it would change how the weapons play based on the legend in use?

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > Doers it not say something that it dealt THAT much damage to begin with? A press and forget skill shouldnt be doing anywhere near that kind of damage. Ever. Also by the sounds of it, the effect ONLY works for PvE by how it mentions PvE but not WvW?

>

> Exactly my thinking. If anything this shows how bad the design of the whole class was and in large parts still is that a skill clearly meant to mass-bombard (but without the ability to target) an area provided such an important part of vs-large-target single target DPS.

>

> I mean, if that doesn't show you how glacial GW2's redesigns/rebalancings are, then I don't know what else would. The game is lagging nearly 5 years behind. Yeah they're picking up the pace now, but it's going to be difficult to make up 5 years of mostly-skipped rebalancing/reimplementation efforts other games had.

Too be fair, quite of lot of the game has been riddled with bad game design since launch and even before then. The combat system has become very stale and rather boring. When it first came out, it was fresh, new and fun. Now not so much, the bad, bad balance combined with the very little in attempts of trying to freshen things up has made the combat system rather dull, it was one of 2 things (the other being WvW) that had kept me playing but now i barely have the urge to play, it just gets too boring when playing for even 5-10 minutes now :/

If you are zerg surfing. Go with anything. It really means nothing. As long as you can tag foes thats all about you need. If you plan on Roaming or anything. Dont waste your time with Power Scourge. It would be pointless. Hybrid, COULD maybe work but it wont be as strong as pure condi because Scourge is (like Necro in general) designed around conditions, conditions, conditions.

Why not revert it back to the pre-release state? Wasn't it at one point meant to apply Torment and COPY conditions you have on yourself to enemies? Something like that could be great. Remove the 10% stat boast and increase the energy upkeep to -10 to make it something that cant be spammed as often.

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> In what way is underwater useless? Maybe useless people underwater but hardly can any content be called "useless".

In 2/3 of the game its either useless or doesnt exist. Basing a whole expansion around this would be VERY stupid. In WvW you do your best to AVOID water because under water combat against other players is tedious and an unbalanced mess if you are playing against a Ranger for example. It can be a nightmare because of how unbalanced their underwater downed is.

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > No mobility. No defense. you would be dead with ease against anyone with Range.

> > >

> > > Thats not a real argument thats truth to just about every necromancer build thats not core and in some rare moments of luck clarity scourge. Reaper will always die to range regardless of what he takes.

> >

> > It is when you BUILD for no defense, mobility or anything. Thats the difference. Some are weak due to how poor Nercro and Reaper are. Others are bad because despite the issues they decide to not think about defense, mobility or anything and think going full zerk is a good idea. Its not.

>

> This right here. Partially. Zerk is fine. No attention to the reaper's shortcomings and not addressing its mobility isn't.

>

> My reaper can catch thieves in most fights without issue. Because I actually build to stay mobile enough to keep pace. And I've done so since the spec launched. And I've never had a problem. The only really hard matchup is bird soulbeast because it has a 1200 unit hard disengage and ranged burst every 10s. And most rangers don't opt for that. The rest can't apply pressure while resetting that continuously.

>

> As a side note, AtP is a trap trait only usable in PvE. Chill of Death provides so much more value in fights and almost always offers more killing-blow damage.

Zerk is fine against Melee. Reaper is an EASY kill to pretty much most classes because most classes have what Reaper and Necro fear: Ranged damage + Mobility. You can build for as much mobility as you can, it still wont be enough to catch or out run most classes. This is why i am not scared of fighting Reaper or Scourge because they are EASILY countered without really needing to build for it, as most classes take mobility as you need it against everyone, you only really need to build condi removal but hell i have killed Scourges before they have even got into range Soulbeast >3