Israel.7056

> @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> Again, this is like complaining that in spvp people are sitting on points and trying to hold them to win the game, rather than fighting off points for no reason other than to kill another player.

But in either case in PvP you're still fighting other players whereas in WvW it's possible to avoid fighting other players entirely.

> And if Maguuma REALLY cared about that, the pugs would actually leave EBG where you get plenty of open field fights.

Very rarely on NA in my experience. Usually you get one or two fights when you port in and hit something and if you win those the enemy just retreats behind a t3 objective and that's pretty much it.

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> when people say guilds left, the only guild that's left mag in like the last 6 months is SoX... it's was KEK PYRO CTH for a while mag actually got more guilds in TBT EZ WaR. the issue is we really have nothing outside of NA. the only off hour we have is Riddle's guild WE who has like 15 people is about it.

It's always coverage.

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > Yeah pugs have been conditioned by guilds the end result is the same and other guilds get chased off like my guild was.

> >

> > Weren't you in KEK?

> >

>

> No I think he's in SoX lol

Lol ook.

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > one active timezone generally has more actual fighting in it than all the timezones on NA combined.

>

> That's the shameful truth of NA.

> What purpose, to flip empty towers so you can match against other servers doing the same?

>

> There's actually entertaining things to do elsewhere.

Yeah I dunno it's hard to describe just how different NA is from EU. EU reminds me of what NA was like at the beginning of the game when fight guilds would run around just looking for other fight guilds to fight instead of worrying about points. I don't know what happened on NA I really don't. How did everyone get so obsessed with gates and walls?

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> Yeah pugs have been conditioned by guilds the end result is the same and other guilds get chased off like my guild was.

Weren't you in KEK?

> @"Aiga.3075" said:

> > @"neven.3785" said:

> > The only thing that mag has going for it is their carebear free team chat. Everywhere else is as PC as a Facebook mom's group

>

> You haven't seen FA team chat then.

>

>

I have. Ultra tame unless it's gotten more interesting in a month.

Mag plays the same now as it did when we beat every other server including BG in t1, the only difference now is coverage. All that ever makes a difference in the outcome of this game is coverage. At one point Mag had PA/KAZO in EU, MGR/Sephi during SEA and Kingy's guild in OCX as well as a monster NA with a bunch of good guilds like Rekz/VR/KEK and some others I'm forgetting right now for some reason but it was 24/7 coverage with competent fight commanders in every time zone. Pretty much all we did back then was focus EBG first and then during NA we would end up in every map because of how many people we had. Any strat can work when you've got 24/7 coverage it makes no difference whether you spread out and try to hit many things at once or you just focus EBG it's all effective. Almost every guild that made Mag what it was has transferred off the server due to boredom or quit the game entirely. Once you play on Mag it's really hard to have fun anywhere else on NA because most NA servers are so PC it's painful so a lot of people just quit or went to EU where the culture is a lot more like Mag and where one active timezone generally has more actual fighting in it than all the timezones on NA combined.

They wanted to prevent players from kill trading I suppose but it's a great example of the law of unintended consequences. Kill trading is probably not possible but killing in general is less valuable in terms of wxp than taking objectives.

I feel the same way basically.

At that point you might actually have to fight them. If you can't win the fight you lose the objective. This is as it should be imo.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> What are you smoking? We queue several maps. Still delusional?

I was being sarcastic.

But good luck anyways. According to the OP FA+AR is the most active link in the game, way more than JQ+SOR so obviously you're gonna get steamrolled. See you in t3 once Mag opens.

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Evolute.6239" said:

> > > Both SBI and FA have 86 thousand kills this week, and YB has 55k. When you add up K+D, FA has 161k, SBI has 151k, and YB has 127k. Those numbers dwarf T1 completely.

> >

> > Inb4 "that just means the t2 servers have larger populations and better coverage than the t1 servers they just don't care about the game as much or try as hard as we do"

>

> And yet, whenever any of these T1 servers fall to T2 their activity numbers "dwarf" the other T2 servers.

> I wonder why that is. (We know why that is.)

>

> ~ Kovu

Predicted response: Well that's because t2 servers aren't as good at the game and they don't care as much about winning. FA has way way more population than BG they just don't try as hard. I mean look at the participation data since we started losing BG is basically a t3 server now. Did we dominate everyone every single week for over a year? Yes. Did it take 4 servers double teaming us to beat us? Yes. But now that we have lost a couple weeks our coverage and population have completely vanished. LOOK AT THE ACTIVITY NUMBERS!! JQ is massive now but not because their fairweathers are out. No one on BG is fairweathering because many people are still playing. Clearly BG needs to be opened so it doesn't drop to t3 or worse. That would be really bad for the game because BG is supposed to win t1.

> @"anonymous.7812" said:

> Heeeeeeeey guys look BG is hibergating again! heeeeeeeey he he he he, this gun be good! Who needs evidence!

You guys can sit in here and echo chamber this thread as long as you want you're not gonna get anywhere with anyone who isn't already on BG.

ANET falls for it every time though so I wouldn't worry too much.

> @"Evolute.6239" said:

> Both SBI and FA have 86 thousand kills this week, and YB has 55k. When you add up K+D, FA has 161k, SBI has 151k, and YB has 127k. Those numbers dwarf T1 completely.

Inb4 "that just means the t2 servers have larger populations and better coverage than the t1 servers they just don't care about the game as much or try as hard as we do"

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> You still don't get it? we're talking about activity .I can care less if we lose lol. .. I just want fights bro. Btw there's a video that shows our activity... No argument there? Sigh going to go cook. Talking to a brick wall of opinions with no evidence is getting boring. I'll come back when you have your share of evidence.

I already told you I grant all your data.

You're getting fights.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> What are you talking about? I'm here making a noise even when we're losing. I'm not hiding. Do you need an explanation on what fairweathering is? We're talking about activity mate.

You're engaging in special pleading nonsense in multiple threads under the guise of being impartial and advocating for all servers because you've lost a few weeks in a row, perish the thought. Maybe just take the losses and stop complaining?

I already told you how I interpret your "activity," I don't understand why I always have to explain things to you over and over.

You can post the same screenshots 50 times it won't change what I'm saying. All your data suggests is that BG fairweathers have fairweathered leaving the die hard crew and that JQ fairweathers are out in droves since they're finally winning again.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> > > lol "My evidence is your evidence". So you have no evidence to prove your claim. My evidence proves my claim. Not yours.

> >

> > This data by itself doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything. The explanation is not self evident and therefore requires interpretation. I have simply offered an alternative explanation of the data which, given what we all know about BG and its history as a server, seems to me to be infinitely more plausible than yours.

>

> You have to be online to kill and die. Being online = activity. Having this many kills and deaths = a lot of activity.

>

> Also watch this video which clearly demonstrates our activity with us forming a large group while fighting in voice comms. We had a map queue fighting against JQ's map queue during OCX time. You'll have to copy the link itself to watch the streamer. Btw follow her, she is awesome.

> [

>

> No arguments here?

Do you need me to explain how fairweathering works?

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> lol "My evidence is your evidence". So you have no evidence to prove your claim. My evidence proves my claim. Not yours.

This data by itself doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything. The explanation is not self evident and therefore requires interpretation. I have simply offered an alternative explanation of the data which, given what we all know about BG and its history as a server, seems to me to be infinitely more plausible than yours.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> Where are your activity stats? Kills + deaths please. You're not even in the same match-up. You're an outsider that only gives his opinion without stats. No proof = no talk. I got stats. I talk. Having evidence even though it doesn't show the full picture is better than having no evidence at all. You have 0 evidence and everything that you say is only from your perspective. That's why I said JQ/SoS/SBI has a better say than you because they can actually grab the evidence if they wanted too.

My evidence is your evidence which, when taken into consideration under a broader context, doesn't necessarily show what you claim it shows.

Data requires interpretation. Your proposed interpretation is frankly absurd given recent history and the common knowledge of how fairweather BG is as a server. An infinitely more plausible interpretation, considering how dominant the server has been for well over a year, is that a good chunk of BG's fairweathers have now fairweathered after getting double teamed out of t1 and as a result the numbers look temporarily off. This is ofcourse the point. The intent here is explicitly to get the server opened hence this thread and presumably many more threads like it that will pop up until ANET opens the server again. At that point BG will get even more people onto the server and all the fairweathers will return to WvW with their confidence of victory restored and BG will go back to steamrolling t1 for another year or however long it takes for someone to beat them again. At that point you or someone like you will trot out this same argument and begin the cycle anew. You are not the first BG schill but perhaps you will be the last.

But please keep trying to sell us this nonsense I am sure I am not alone in finding it very amusing.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> Also what you said about BG not showing up is not true. BG has it's highest kill count this week within the months. Again, you're either over rating BG's force or you're not in the T1 matchups. If you're not in the same tier, go converse somewhere else mate. I have the screenshots to prove it while you state your baseless comments. This guy said that he was in MAG and when I added him, he was in EU. Why would you lie in a game mate. That's just sad.

Your "evidence" doesn't show what you seem to think it shows if it's even reliable data at all. I do not know how you expect anyone to come to the conclusion you want them to come to when there's a much more obvious explanation for what's suddenly happened with BG's numbers.

You seem to think that no one left playing this game remembers how BG has operated for years now. You are wrong. You're not going to fool anyone with these special pleading threads. We've all seen BG do this same thing every time when they lose. You can't honestly expect anyone to fall for this anymore.

You need to accept that you're playing on a fairweather server that only turns out fully when everyone feels pretty sure they're gonna win the matchup.

You're grasping at straws with the EU thing I explained to you multiple times in whispers why I'm not on MAG right now I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

> @"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:

> It's true though. Look at the numbers during double experience. In T1 BG averaged aroudn 35k kills per week. During double experience we reached 47k and JQ has 61k even though BG has the better K/D. Can't ppt fast enough because it's more populated during double experience weeks. In EU WvW is a lot more active. BG wouldn't stand a chance in T1 in EU just because of that. People overrate BG because they were in T1 in an NA population who didn't care about winning. Look at SoS, their coverage didn't magically happen. They started playing because of double experience and that resulted in better PPT. SoS's coverage is as strong as JQs, but they can't fight for kitten lol.

Oh I have no doubt that fewer people are playing on BG than when BG was winning I just don't believe that it's indicative of an actual population issue.

BG is a hardcore fairweather server and now a good chunk of BG players will stop showing up until things start looking better as is tradition.

Fear not!! ANET always falls for the blackout trick so I'm sure they'll open BG soon and you'll be back to dominating t1 and telling people how they just need to try harder and care about the game more.

Meh I don't really see the problem with mesmer here it's a build designed for kiting and burst damage and people get kited around like mobs in open field that's their fault not the mesmer's fault.

Lol the delusion is SO real.

Don't you guys know that the only people who cared about this game all this time were on BG? Don't you realize they're all magically gone now for some reason that has absolutely nothing to do with not dominating t1? Don't you know that we're the only ones who care about winning but also we don't care about winning at all??

Don't you guys on other servers realize that if you just care enough players will magically appear on your server to play your weak timezones??

I thought everyone knew this stuff. Just clap your hands three times and say "COVERAGE, COVERAGE, COVERAGE" and whatever you need will just appear. Easy guys anyone can have t1 coverage.

When we're beating you just know that it's because we're the only ones who care about this game and we're the only ones with the will to fight hard and keep fighting forever but if we're losing it's because we don't actually care about winning and we just play to have fun and get bags and our population isn't that great when we're losing so clearly we never actually have coverage so it was all in your imagination and you guys just didn't try as hard as we always do because we're the best but also open BG because this game isn't fair.........................................................................

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> The problem is maybe also the overlapping DPS/AoE circles. As a melee (I played as Spellbreaker), you survive for like 1-2 seconds within a blob of enemies. While you _can_ use defensive utilities/traits that lets you survive for long enough, you _can't_ stay there for a short wile and do damage. It's simply impossible. The fact that you actually get instantly downed/stomped sucks. I don't know how or if it is different in other games. But it isn't fun at all.

That is a player tactics issue as much as it is a game design issue imo.

It's definitely a lot of power creep. They rolled too many traits into one so many builds have a lot more to them by default now.

But also things like spellbreaker and scourge at a conceptual level change the game. The first time I saw spellbreakers and scourges in action I knew the game was going to completely change.