Israel.7056

I like the idea of getting rid of rallies. Other than that meh.

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > This is a big part of the reason why blobs run all bunched up; they are all in position to quickly fix each other's mistakes.

> last time I checked zerg stacking in it's most prominent was introduced after target cap was introduced - to counter bombs by oversaturating possible targets meaning that multiskill bomb even if it had enought damage potentiall to kill anyone in that group will just tickle multiple guys.

>

> and limited buff/healing ranges on many classes too

Yeah that's the other main reason. Small target caps and downed state make blobbing relatively safe.

The only thing that changes with no downed state is how hard you can get punished for mistakes. That's it. Ordinarily you make a mistake and if you get punished you go down. If you have enough people around you they can quickly res you and you get back up, mistake doesn't matter. This is a big part of the reason why blobs run all bunched up; they are all in position to quickly fix each other's mistakes. With no downed state if you make a mistake and you get punished for it you're done, one mistake is all it takes, regardless of how many other people are around you. No one can undo that mistake for you, you have to run back and try not to make that same mistake twice. No downed state is a much harsher filter for bad play at every level of play and that's where the division of player sentiment comes in.

I have died probably 50 times this week since reset which is like 5 times more than I usually do and every time it has been my fault. Every single time. There are so many sloppy aspects of my game that no downed state has helped me to see. Give me a couple months of this and I will be a much much much better player because I won't make those mistakes anymore.

> @"road range.6293" said:

> interesting OP.

> At almost 4K, obviously, I usually play enough of the week to at least finish the Diamond chest. But, FWIW, I've quit the game for the rest of this week at Bronze 3 chest. I've never seen so much cancerous, hostile, and arrogant in game chat, in what became a shortened "bye week" for myself (And others that stated so here). (Not to mention the clear divisions it's created here). Invisible snipers with one shot builds, and invulnerable tank builds are acting like complete arrogant jerks. Because they can suddenly play GW2 like a FPS game now. They can blow all cool downs (especially in stealth/snipe builds/gank groups) in one volley (or one macro key), and not have to worry about what happens if the opposition gets back up and still has all their cool downs. And, half of the classes are inherently missing important build traits, while others are not.

>

> These one shot players are so happy the fight is over so fast. Instant gratification. So, why even play this game at all, when "downed state" is one of the primary fighting and strategic mechanics of the game since day one? And protracted fighting with dozens of keystroke skills is what you are in GW2 to do! Yet, they just want the fight to be over instantly in one trigger pull, FPS sniper style. I say: Go play a FPS if you want instant gratification without any protracted complex MMO style fights.

>

> This should have never been more than a weekend event. Or, it should have just been an April Fools 24 hour build. And, should absolutely NOT have been tied to a 2xp week. It didn't take long to see hostility, vitriol, bravado, id, and outright chat cancer, especially apparent to potential new players drawn there for the 2xp. And, also causing some to forfeit the 2XP week, just to escape this metaphysically charged drama event week.

>

>

So to be clear you're complaining about getting one shot by one guy or groups of people?

> @"Brother.1504" said:

> Here’s some logic. No aoe target cap. If your small group of 10, drops 10 aoes on the big group of 30. What do you think happens when the big group of 30, drops 30 aoes on your small group of 10?

Assuming that both groups are organized in the same way. But no one forces players to try to move around in one tight little ball that's a strategy players developed to take advantage of target caps and downed state years ago.

Change the rules of the game and you change the way the game is played.

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> >because it's much harder to win now and it makes me want to actually care about being good at this game again.

>

> I thought people complained it was harder to win the other way around since people kept res'ing downs and couldn't cut down the zerg?

>

Yeah the wording is confusing I agree.

The removal of downed state this week has significantly lowered the margin for error for all players on the field. Mistakes that would ordinarily just get you downed can now get you killed. So the stakes are much higher when an error is made on either side because either side can punish the error more decisively. Ordinarily the larger a group is the more mistakes they get to make because they have more people who can just res anyone who goes down while still having plenty of people left to fight to cover the res. Their numbers disproportionately benefit them in this way. But without downed state both sides can instantly lose players and this disproportionately benefits whichever side can land their damage more quickly and precisely while avoiding damage more effectively and it also means that when overextenders and out of positioners get punished they're completely done whereas ordinarily they would just get downed. So the game becomes much easier to win if you do not make mistakes and the enemy does but much more punishing if you do make mistakes and the enemy doesn't. I am reluctant to use the word "skill" here because most people only think of 'mechanical skill' or complexity of execution but another key aspect of skill is 'precision of action' or not making mistakes.

EDIT: Another relevant aspect of what we broadly call "skill" is speed or how fast you can execute an action. With the removal of downed state speed becomes much more important both offensively and defensively because no one has the safety blanket of downed state to fall back on. This means that if you're really fast and you land your damage you might just get a kill and it also means that you have to be ready to react extremely quickly to any attack at any time.

I have personally been having a harder time than usual this week because I have grown accustomed to the safety blanket of downed state and I find myself making all sorts of instinctive choices that are errors now. I'm basically having to relearn positioning and timing a little bit because I can't just rely on getting the rally or going down and getting ressed anymore.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> “it feels great to just blow people up and be done with them.”

>

> “makes outnumbered fights much more feasible which is always good imo.”

>

> “game gives greater priority to people who can play glassy stuff and land their damage without dying constantly and that takes skill.”

>

> You want even more “zerker meta”, easier kills and want the devs to remove an intertwined combat mechanic so it’s less challenging to take on the larger groups of people who you think are inferior players...

>

> You’re hailing “around” a 25 person group that won over a 50 person group like it’s never happened before... and attribute it to “no down state”... You’re not paying attention because that’s already been happening since launch with downstate...

>

> I think instead of trying to remove downstate, the long term adjustment should be improving your small(er) group skills and builds so you can find greater success with outnumbered fights... like other small(er) groups have been doing since the game started...

>

> You may think that only those zerglings need to improve, but if you’ve consistently lost to those same inexperienced zerglings, then what does that say about the group you’re trying to run or run with? There are 2 sides to each coin my friend, so think about that...

You really haven't thought this through. If the game is easier for me because of this change then it's easier for everyone, right? There's nothing special about me, nothing that I can do to other players that they cannot also do back to me.

So if the zerglings are so much better than me at the game with downed state and the removal of downed state only makes the game easier for everyone then they should still beat me with their giant blob and nothing should change. Right? So what's the issue?

The truth is that the removal of downed state has not made the game easier for me this week it's made it much harder but I'm having more fun than I have in a long time because it's much harder to win now and it makes me want to actually care about being good at this game again.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> You should focus on the "ton of other changes" part instead... and think about more than "feels great to just blow people up and be done with them"... You should also look at things from a broader view (health of the entire mode and the diverse amount of players in it). Spend more time asking yourself why such mechanics exist in this particular game, not just look at things from a limited view point and by your individual "feeling".

So if I enjoy something tremendously but it's pretty hard on bad players I should feel sorry for them and not champion the thing that I enjoy? What utter nonsense.

I do not believe in catering to the lowest common denominator player just to make their experience more comfortable. I paid my dues getting to where I am they can do it too.

> You obviously don't understand why down state exists, and how it relates to the design of professions and combat. Again, you just want to "blow things up" and have a tough time with harder fought battles. You want as easy as possible wins, and that's pretty clear by your statements.

Lol so the game is easier without downed state? So why are all these people complaining about losing so much? Shouldn't they just be able to get easy wins now?

The obvious truth to anyone actually playing this week is that the the removal of downed state simply reduces margin for error which means that it makes the game harder and more punishing when you make mistakes because you can't get ressed if you fail a dodge or position yourself wrong and get wrecked. The removal of downed state rewards fast, aggressive and precise play and that's much harder to do consistently than it is to just tank up run in a ball and spam healing skills on a firebrand and shades on a scourge.

By the way this week hasn't actually been easier for me, it's been much much harder. I have died so many more times than i usually do but I'm having way more fun than i usually do too because I like the fast paced brutal feel of combat like this even if it makes it harder for me to win fights.

> You have this reoccurring theme that a smaller group of players can't handle larger groups of players... It's been happening for years already. If your smaller group has issues facing off against larger numbers then that is an area to work on. Don't use the excuse of down state as a failure to win against larger numbers sometimes. Superior numbers don't always win, but you are making it seem that way, and it's just not true.

Are we all supposed to feel sorry for all the map q blobs who are going to get blown up by 20 man skill groups if this change gets made permanent? Good luck selling that.

> Using "one (of many)" would be a more accurate way to address my comments. There are a plethora of reasons why wvw fails to grow and keep players. Low ttk is one of those issues, because many who come to play mmo's aren't looking for insta-gib gameplay.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time and you can make all of the people happy some of the time but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time.

> You come across as pointing to issues like it's all the players fault... Sure, there are learning curves, but the players have zero control over a neglected game mode, neglected profession development for competitive play, lack of build diversity, low amount of resources devoted to making sure competitive play is top notch, pve skill designs and pve combat mechanics shoved into wvw and spvp (that the team if finally starting to make efforts to change after 6 years with those balance splits)… and a host of problems that customers don't have control over...

The issues people have brought up in this thread have been player error issues. Getting ganked outside of spawn? Nothing to do with no downed state. Just that guy being dumb and feeding kills. Having trouble pushing into enemies? Harder with no downed state but still entirely doable and I've been doing it on EU on a mara/zerk rev with 200 ping. Just gotta be more careful in melee now. Getting picked in your zerg? Harder without downed state because pick can more easily punish people who get out of position. Pay more attention to where you're standing and it won't happen as much.

> Again, you want easy win designs and "blow people up" gameplay, but that doesn't generate long term interest and participation for wvw.

I do want "blow people up" gameplay but it doesn't make the game easier for me it makes the game a lot harder because I pay for my mistakes much more dearly than I usually do. I'm pretty fast and I'm pretty good but I still make mistakes and I've been getting punished for them this week in a way that I usually don't and that's how it should be.

I think the primary indicator for stacking is when a server takes on enough coverage to overwhelm one or more timezones.

Stacking and serial bandwagoning is definitely one of the things that's ruined this game mode over time though imo. Not the only thing but definitely one of them.

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> Before I say my piece, I am not supporting Israel suggestion or think that such suggestion would come into place anyway.

>

> I can't say much about OCX but for SEA, it is highly possible to put majority of the SEA guilds into one alliance. Historically, we already have many such SEA stacked servers and still have many such servers and links. Thus, people like to stack thus it isn't hard to form such alliance. Furthermore, great majority SEA guilds do not have the capability to recruit outside their residing server population (due to lack of publicity and nature of the leaderships), this kinda in way make them very dependent on stacking to get numbers. Without stacking, many of those SEA guilds will crumble by themselves. There is very little SEA guilds that has the capability of surviving on non-stacked server.

>

> When blow up come, I believe many would see how it goes on the first time then if the arrangement put them into a situation not able to recruit, I believe next they gonna stack alliance.

The same thing can easily be done with OCX and it also has precedent.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> You are acting as if the Downed mechanic is just some simple combat element that doesn't have a ton of design implications... From alpha, the Downed, Rally and Revive mechanics in this game were factored into every element of combat, and were put in for specific reasons... A removal of Downed State would mean a ton of other changes would be needed to make for tasteful competitive gameplay.

Lol "tasteful competitive gameplay." What would that mean exactly I wonder?

> "Hi, I'm Jon Peters, one of the game designers on Guild Wars 2. While Colin Johanson has been busy working on a secret project involving V8 Juice and moa birds, we've been deciding how death and resurrection will work in Guild Wars 2 and what this means for the basic damage/tank/heal paradigm so familiar to MMO players.

> Defeat in Guild Wars 2 is intended to be an experience, not a punishment. Let's face it: dying never feels great, even without a death penalty. As weird as it might sound, we decided to look into what would make dying a more enjoyable and memorable play experience.

> Rather than being presented with immediate failure, when a player loses all of their health in Guild Wars 2, they are put into "downed mode." In this mode, the player has a number of downed skills they can use to target enemies and fight for a chance to survive. A downed player can still be attacked, which will send them into a defeated state, leaving them to either wait for an ally to resurrect them or to resurrect at a waypoint.

> Downed skills are less-powerful skills that a player can use in a last-ditch effort to turn the tide. A warrior might daze an enemy by throwing a rock. An elementalist might lock down their foe with Grasping Earth. While you are downed, if you manage to kill an enemy, you will rally, returning to life to fight again. When you rally, you are thrust right back in the action. This potential to rally from the edge of defeat adds greater drama to combat and gives a player some tactical control while in a state where they normally have none.

> Some professions will have special skills that will instantly rally a fallen ally. For example, when a warrior uses "I Will Avenge You," and then kills an enemy nearby his fallen allies, his allies will rally. While you are downed or defeated, any other player can come to you and interact with you to bring you back to life. We call this "reviving," and everyone, regardless of profession, can do this starting at Level 1."

Yeah i think we all understand the original idea of downed state. In theory it sounds great but in practice it just protects people from their own errors and gives larger groups an inherent advantage against smaller groups.

> "without downed state the game gives greater priority to people who can play glassy stuff and land their damage without dying constantly and that takes skill."... If you consider making builds that can spam damage and run to avoid death (because that's what you are essentially saying), then you don't know what healthy mmo combat should look like. And "glassy stuff" ( aka zerker meta) was a trend that the devs wanted to veer away from because they know it's unhealthy for the game (watch Irenio in the vid)... http://dulfy.net/2015/09/25/gw2-druid-ranger-elite-specialization-livestream-reveal/

The builds that work are the ones that either have a huge alpha and can move quickly or ones that have enough passive defense and mobility that they can get in and around players and kill before they get killed, or groups that stay super tight on their pin and really move well as a unit and get their damage in one place as is happening right now on EU. I saw Zudo run over 50 people with probably 25 yesterday it was impressive. Either way the combat is much faster and every play is much higher stakes because of how fast you can be killed. I know what combat that I like looks like and this is much closer to it than what combat looks like with downed state. Combat with downed state is incredibly forgiving for bad players who either have slow reflexes or bad situational awareness or timing or positioning because they can get completely destroyed and then get a second or third or fourth chance. These are the sorts of players having a hard time this week because they're used to being able to make horrendous errors and never pay for them.

I think no downstate is tremendously healthy for the game because a good 20 man can now take on 60 bad players and actually have a chance of winning which means it incentivizes skill groups as opposed to giant pug blobs. Put this in play for a month or two and everyone will start trying to reorganize into smaller more well organized groups instead of everyone just running map blobs on whatever pin happens to be on atm. Downed state is at the crux of the death of the skill group because with downed state 60 bad players can beat 20 well organized good players pretty easily and that's been very unhealthy for the game as we have seen so many skill groups leave to find other games where numbers mean less than organization and skill. Maybe they will come back now.

> You appear to be stuck in the GW2 "vanilla" mindset and seem to think changes that promote "glassy stuff" is somehow healthy, when it's not. You may like the 1 dimensional Damage-Damage-Damage "trinity", but you should realize that it is one (of many) of the reasons why GW2 wvw and spvp has a poor reputation and long term participation and retention. Esports failed hard. WvW struggles to keep players and we need links to salvage this mode. Alliances are coming to mask how bad the state of population in wvw really is.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one because I've been playing this game a long time and I've known and played with a lot of the people who have left this game and I can tell you that I never heard any of them complaining about how there was too much damage in the game. They left because they realized that 60 bad players blobbing around was a more effective way to organize than a 20 man skill group and that sapped them of their desire to play the game. The two things making that a reality in this game are 1.) 5 player aoe caps 2.) Downed state that allows a much larger group to chain res through the damage of smaller groups. Removing downed state removes one of the big obstacles for small skill groups to succeed.

> None of which have to do with any player deficiencies.

Yes it does. Right now certain players are getting punished harder for bad decisions and bad situational awareness and bad positioning and bad organization and they're mad about it because they're used to being able to get away with those sorts of mistakes. I'm doing great, I have died a lot more than I usually do but every time I've died it has been because of me making mistakes. Give me a few months with the game like this and I will stop making those mistakes and be a much better player for it and so will these other players if they stop whining and figure out what they're doing wrong and fix it. But that won't happen. They will probably just skip the week and then come back when they know they can safely hide in their blob again.

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> I'm not paying dearly for any error, I'm generally only dying when I get stealth ganked coming out of spawn, and that has *nothing* to do with either my skill or the 5 gankers playing risk-free fish-in-a-barrel from stealth. It does NOT take ANY skill outside of coordination to hide in stealth and burst down a target, and then retreat if enough of their friends come along. Cheese tactics <> skill.

>

> Last night I switched to tanky rev with a hammer and now I'm getting kills but still not dying because now I can pew-pew from range. Melee classes absolutely suck in this pirate-ship world. No-downed state has very little to do with skill, unless you call tanking up, super-cautious range play "skill".

What in your mind actually takes a lot of mechanical skill in this game?

In my mind most of the challenge of this game is not actually mechanical but rather coordination, quick intelligent and precise decision making, fast reaction times, the ability to improvise, use of strategy and tactics, map knowledge, situational awareness, positioning and ofcourse buildcraft. So while mechanically the game is relatively simple there's still a world of difference between good players and bad players because bad players play builds they can't handle, they make coordination errors, they can't improvise, they have poor situational awareness etc etc and so they end up dying a lot and in my experience they rarely understand what happened to them.

No downed state by itself only decreases margin for error in combat everything else is exactly the same as before. You have to use all the tools at your disposal to deal with that decreased margin for error. If the best you can do to stay alive is to tank up and play at range then do it. There's nothing wrong with that do what you have to do.

Melee is always risky as it should be, but with no downed state you really have to be careful about when and how you engage in melee. You shouldn't just be able to mindlessly push straight into people or terrible positions and get carried by sustain and ressing.

If you're getting ganked repeatedly walking out of spawn and you know where they are then obviously your error is in going out the same way over and over and letting them gank you. No downstate doesn't change anything in this scenario you would've died to them anyways.

100 percent keep it this is the most fun the combat has ever been in the game imo.

Fast brutal and punishing, just the way I like MMO combat.

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> I swapped to full nomad/minstrel gear and that stopped the dying for the most part. My skill didn't change one iota, it's 100% a matter of build and gear. Go full tank, never charge, just hang back and pew-pew. You'll live, and it's boring as kitten.

>

> Well, even full nomad/minstrel hasn't stopped me from getting instagibbed coming out of spawn by a party of cheese-build stealth gankers. I guess not being able to react in .00000001 second to that kind of burst makes me a baddie, as it does to every other person who's experiencing that now.

>

> Sorry, but being able to instagib a player has nothing to do with skill. 5 cheese build baddies can take out a diamond legend coming out spawn if they just coordinate properly. Guess those baddies are better than that legend after all.

Anyone can use build and gear to give themselves a larger margin for error to cover for a lack of skill but the tradeoff is that they can't really kill anything. This has always been the case it's just that without downed state the game gives greater priority to people who can play glassy stuff and land their damage without dying constantly and that takes skill. Essentially you and anyone having the same problems as you this week have always had these problem it's just that the downed state mechanic hid them from you. Now you're really getting to see the holes in your game so to speak because you're paying dearly for every major error whereas before maybe someone would've ressed you.

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> you seem to have missed the part when they said server-balancing system will try to make servers with balanced playerhours coverage all around the clock.

Yeah I read that part but I think they're being very naive about what the players themselves are going to do and/or overly optimistic about what a "server balancing" mechanism will be capable of. A lot of what is going to happen depends on how large the alliances are allowed to be. I don't think they've given us a number yet but if it's anything over 100 I think we're gonna have the same problems we do now regardless of whatever server balancing system they try to put in place.

> so it'll try to spread those OCX/SEA players so that they don't fight unoposed - and even if there is that small amount of guilds of these players as you claim I'd bet there is alot of these players also playing without a guild - as with every other region.

Yeah I get that they think that's what they're going to do. But what are the players themselves going to try to do? Exactly how far is Anet going to be willing to go to prevent all the sea players from essentially congregating into one or two alliances? These are rhetorical questions I know neither one of us knows enough to be able to answer them yet but I hope they illustrate what I predict will be the fatal flaw of this new system.

Would be nice to have something to spend all these rank points on I'll tell you that.

Everything has a cost. If the cost of making the game this much fun again is that dueling is harder to spectate then that seems a small price to pay.

> @"Mil.3562" said:

> So you are saying those with low hp base and wearing light or medium armours and without Ageis or invulnerability skills are bad players?

If they're dying constantly yes.

This is by far my favorite thing they've ever done.

I die a lot more but the fights feel so much more brutal and fast and it rewards smart aggressive behavior and well organized smaller units who can get their damage in one place. Now a good group of 20 can easily take on 50 bad zergboys.

I really really like it and I hope they consider making this a permanent change to the game mode.

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> Actually, is Israel even on NA servers?

Usually yes but I'm playing with PA on Vabbi right now until Mag reopens.

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> There is an extreme divide of opinion here. Gankers love it, people who rely on range damage are being rewarded, siege humpers are getting free kills. Anyone who runs support in a large zerg, all-melee players, and all those people who keep getting one-shot from stealth while coming out of spawn are hating it, and for good reason.

>

> Downed state is the thing that differentiates GW2 from other mmo's. It's one of the unique characteristics of this game that make it possible for those of us not blessed with high-level reflexes (or who have physical/neurological impairments that will prevent them from ever being able to do that no matter how much they play) to actually enjoy competitive wvw in a way that isn't possible with any other game. It's our one refuge from toxic elitists who'd like to remove us from the game completely.

>

> This change ruins the game for many large-scale fighters, which is what wvw is supposed to be about. Prefer small-scale fights? Go do PvP. Don't turn wvw into a mode where it's all about fast-twitch reflexes needing to survive the way pvp is. This is all we've got.

>

> One-shot ganking people from stealth is NOT skillful play, no matter how many thieves and mesmers want to pretend it is. It is NOT good for the game to have those groups spawn camping and instagibbing people. There is NO counter to it, if you happen to be their target, you run out of spawn, you die. That is not fun, it is annoying and discouraging.

>

> Large scale zerg play was horrible last night. 100% pirate ship, everyone afraid to commit to any kind of push. While I was on melee only (before I started using a L78 rifle I found in my inventory), I actually started losing participation because I went more than 10 minutes without getting a tag. 80% of pushes were fake pushes, and even the few that were real generally lasted just a few seconds and then it's retreat, retreat, retreat. Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight. The only time I seriously got tags (prior to donning the rifle) were when we managed to swoop in on the backline of a preoccupied group. Oh, also the one time I got on an arrow cart got me about half the bags I ended up with for the night.

>

> This is not a fun style of play for a frontline melee zerg player.

>

> You want your small-scale, instakill, fast-twitch reflex or die kind of pvp, go play any of the many other mmo's out there designed for exactly that kind of play. Give me back the one game I can still have fun in.

I've died maybe ten or fifteen times in about 8 hours of play since the change went live and I'm playing on an almost completely glass rev on EU with a consistently fluctuating 150-300 ping. I've seen melee push just fine they just have to be more selective and intelligent about when they push and how they do it. I've gotten into roaming fights, medium scale fights and large scale zerg fights and I've been able to usually stay alive. The times I've died it was because I screwed up and got punished for it. This is how it should be. You should be afraid to commit you should have to be careful you should have to actually think about what you're doing in a fight and when you screw up you should get obliterated for it.

> @"Char.4209" said:

> Playing at night should not be penalized, but weighted. Maybe count the total players during a skirmish (from all 3 sides) and give propotional points for winner, second and last

That wouldn't really change anything except maybe the scores would appear a little closer on paper at the end of every week. The player experience would not change at all. One server or alliance would still get to upgrade all their stuff, fill up their supply everywhere and build tons of siege in everything and everyone else would still be starting out with nothing or almost nothing with (maybe one keep at t2) with no supply anywhere and no siege built.

This is the true massive advantage of nightcapping that score alone doesn't take into account. Nightcapping is not just about the points it gives but about the insurmountable strategic and tactical advantages it offers and the demoralizing effect all of this has on enemy players who wake up every single day to find everything they worked on the day before **completely erased** while simultaneously having to deal with an enemy who has **every single strategic and tactical advantage anyone can have in this game every single day of every single week**. I do not understand why this point is so hard for people to understand.

**Weighting scores would do absolutely nothing to change this.**

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > My solution would fix the issue of nightcapping completely.

>

> you know what would also fix it completely? World restructuring that is in development. And without kicking fellas that for whatever reason cannot play the mode at hours you'd want them to play.

>

> by the way:

> I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

>

>

Possibly I have my doubts though. The alliance plan that I've seen so far does nothing to prevent nightcapping because it still allows OCX/SEA players to play for NA alliances. So to use a sports analogy this will be like having a regular football game with two teams everyday and then letting one team play with little to no opposition for several hours after the end of each game. Who do you think is going to win? It wouldn't be such a big deal if there were as many OCX/SEA players on NA servers as there are NA players but unfortunately they are much smaller in number so there are not enough of them for every alliance to have their own OCX/SEA coverage.

I predict that one or two alliances will pay to pick up all of the OCX/SEA guilds that are left in the game (not many) and beat everyone and we'll be back in the same situation we're in now but with alliances instead of servers.

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

>It's a game of whatever happens happens. 24/7 up-time regardless of who plays when.

Nonsense it's a game of whoever has the most OCX/SEA wins. NA coverage doesn't matter if you don't have OCX/SEA and it doesn't matter at all if you have enough OCX/SEA to overwhelm the enemy servers and it's been this way since launch, skirmishes or no skirmishes. If you don't have OCX/SEA you will lose to the servers who do. If you do have some OCX/SEA but the enemy has more you will lose. Every time. Guaranteed.

We don't matter on our own regional servers and we never have so NA players have always had two options: play on a server with OCX/SEA and have a chance of winning or play on any other server and lose for sure.

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > i guess kitten the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right?

> >

> > They could still play on the proposed OCX/SEA server.

> >

> > >which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

> >

> > If we assume that something like 350 million people live in the US that leaves 335 million who would fall into the more normal schedule group and if we assume the distribution of players is roughly equivalent (I'm just going along with your supposition) then that means that something like 96 percent of NA players fall within the range of normal NA play times. That's a much larger chunk wouldn't you say?

>

> Doesnt matter at all. That study only did full time workers, it didnt cover part time workers who work during the same periods. But at this point im done responding, you are very clearly a jaded person when it comes to this and literally nothing will change your mind. Either that, or you are trolling with this thread. The fact that you cant understand that ANET locking a player base out of WvW being bad for their business, bad for the game despite what you think, and ultimately bad for the people *currently playing the game with full set up accounts and characters who simply cannot do server shifts*, who have jobs during that time frame who live in the NA, and forcing them to play on a overseas server would affect their game play experience both physically because of lag and ping and then the feeling/actually being alienated from their friends, or family if they have those that play.

>

> Goodday, jaded person/troll whichever you are.

No I'm not going to change my mind. It would be obviously good for business to favor the vast majority of NA players over the minority. It would be good for the game because NA players would actually matter. It would be good for the majority of people who play normal times.

We are many many more than them our interests should take priority over theirs not the other way around.