ZDragon.3046

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> But this is from a -single- enemy. The shroud lasting long enough for it. Having incomming lifeforce from kills would lenghten it even further.

You can get quite alot i know that at base without the signet on a single enemy you can get 2 guaranteed soul spirals and maybe 3 soul spirals just off of what the auto chain + Reapers onslaught does alone.

Basically all im saying as avid user of SoS + Undeath is that i think people are going to "Over estimate" what this patch did to its passive vs what it already could do. Because its not something that was commonly used by any means in most builds by most people. So its easy to look at it from that perspective and think its "kinda wild" when really its not that big of a deal :P

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"misterman.1530" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > I messed around with signet necro too a few times. Basicaly the only reason I gave up was plague signet which kills you when traited right in the moment an ally shows up.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately plague signet is generally one of the better signets necro has. So the trait turns it into the opposite and hurts that otherwise quite viable build.

> > >

> > > I was talking about something else: 1% LF degeneration combined with some high vita+toughness build (paladin) will frustrate your target more than ever before.

> >

> > It will frustrate them more. Instead of insta-downing us in one hit, a DE will now take 2, maybe 3 hits before they kill us. That's an "improvement"...I guess (?).

> You don't die quickly when you cast spectral armor before entering shroud on paladin gear. I am doing this for years now even in zerg fights. And the benefit of the healing signet active in shroud is something I would not underestimate. You have basically a constant healing source.

>

>

Yes but then thats not signet of undeath doing that its spectral armor :P

And i dont underestimate it as i said i use it in my setup its good but its not great.

Keep in mind you have to get hit for it to trigger and against big meaty hitting attacks its nto good if you take lots of chip damage hits its very good.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > > Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectly

> > > > > > Wait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

> > > > >

> > > > > i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

> > > >

> > > > To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

> > > >

> > > > > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:

> > > > > > @"SidewayS.3789" said:

> > > > > > What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.

> > > > > I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

> > > >

> > > > I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

> > > >

> > > > Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Psientist.6437" said:

> > > > > Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

> > > >

> > > > My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

> > > >

> > > Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

> >

> > But couldnt he talk to people in the distant past already there are books about the dragon talking to norn and such long before the plant dragon died so i think this is just his power correct. Also he was already able to keep frozen thins alive before the death dragon died to... this all seems like its just mostly him. If he knows what happend to kralkatorrik from eating different spectrums of magic maybe he chose not to do such things.

>

> Jormag speaking to us, is most likely Jormag using his persuasion sphere rather then mind, as Aesgeir mentions in The Burden, which is written before Mordremoth dies( or awake for that matter).

>

> As for manipulating the corpses, this is likely how Jormag is choosing to use the Death Magic Sphere, as it’s been stated by devs that only Zhaitan has powers to control the dead. You could make the argument that’s it’s because the Fraenir was Icebrood, however Jormag used the same ability with Almorra too.

But what about all the frozen being jormag has commanded before zhaitan died.... i dont think this is the case of him using the death spectrum i think its something he could already do. Obviously warm blooded beings cant survive in the dead winters that jormag covers his areas with eventually even the snavir freeze to death yet they still animate you can see this on foes even in the core early stage of the game as they appear corrupted with ice growing out of their bodys or through what would surely be vital areas.

I dont think it matters when it comes down to Fraenir vs Allmora

Franeir was still a very new subject of jormag (at least i think based on hour our grumpy norn talks about him).

I personally think if you die in general and once your body is cold enough perhaps partly frozen he/she can control it with his magic more like persuading it to move or say what he wants it to say rather than resurrecting it like an undead/risen. Keep in mind both Fraenir and Almorra did not stay alive after Jormag used them. They fell right back to the ground and showed what was no sign of life which might mean its not a true resurrection of any kind just subjugation over a cold object that no longer has any will of its own.

If you follow some of the AI's being whispered too right now they walk of to certain locations and freeze to death and die litterally (they get a freezing to death debuff) i would assume that this is how jormag is going to get its army by freezing the bodys and later just controlling them via subjugation even thought they are technically dead.

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Elric.4713" said:

> > > Oh what a surprise, they're selling capes on the BLC store.

> >

> > can get from the guild trader for commendations too so there is a free option that said i dont know what that one looks like.... :)

>

> Like a rag used for cleaning dust.

Surprisingly i dont like all my characters being shiny and sparkly so i might have use for that. There is Sytle in junk sometimes if you dont always want to look like a glowing sparkler.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> I messed around with signet necro too a few times. Basicaly the only reason I gave up was plague signet which kills you when traited right in the moment an ally shows up.

>

> Unfortunately plague signet is generally one of the better signets necro has. So the trait turns it into the opposite and hurts that otherwise quite viable build.

>

> I was talking about something else: 1% LF degeneration combined with some high vita+toughness build (paladin) will frustrate your target more than ever before.

Again you still die quickly to some who really knows how to play the game.

Toughness is not very valuable right how with how high damage is in general. IF someone else is not invested into full damage yes you will be tanky. If someone is glass cannon with blocks/invulns to cover lack of defensive stats or traits you will die just as fast. its kind of silly.

Also yes I dont run plague sig in my setup just vamp and undeath the other slots are usually spectral walk and armor which leaves me very vulnerable to condition burst but generally more tanky to power damage than other necro/reaper setsups allow without losing all my damage.

You basically take a risk and trade condition removal and boon corruption for increased sustain while allowing you to keep your damage. vs droping your damage for increased sustain but being able to keep more clears and corrupts in your kit.

I cant wait to test my setup when i get home to see how much stronger its going to be with this minor change but yet i hate what they have done to the active of the signet.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Quick test with the passive:

>

> Core Signet Necro with signet trait: can be extremely frustrating to fight (sustain!) but lacks pressure itself - on the other hand the shroud uptime is so ridiculously high, that almost everytime you leave shroud all your utilities are back off cooldown. You can spam the heal signet.

>

> Power Reaper: don't underestimate that 4% regen! That's 12% on the 10s shroud cooldown. It's a not too bad addition to spectral armor and walk.

>

> Support Scourge: nice LF regen buff as this build did already use the signet before.

incorrect considering ive used this build long before it was ever considered being buffed. Trust me if someone with real damage wants you dead you will die. the small increase that came with todays patch is not enough to buffer some one who really knows how to play their profession and is built for damage.

Ive been an off meta user of the SoS + undeath passive for a very long time so i already knew that running it made you more tanky but most people didnt know this and will think that only because of todays buff that its a good combo when in reality it already did what you are claiming for the most part to me these buffs are very minor and will make the build a bit stronger but not much stronger than it already was dont be fooled lol.

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> Oh what a surprise, they're selling capes on the BLC store.

can get from the guild trader for commendations too so there is a free option that said i dont know what that one looks like.... :)

Thing is these holo nerfs are not that bad compared to what was done to some of the other professions.

I say deal with it holo will still be mostly a high damage low risk elite spec overall until the heat cost or passive heat generation on photon forge is increased holo is going to be strong af. Over worrying about holo nerfs is totally pointless your spec will be fine lets not pretend it wont be.

Alot of other specs are going to survive against revs and other insane meta things with much less than holo has so just deal lol.

Back when life blast could 2-4 shot people depending on their armor rating

being a skilled warrior was using bull charge > frenzy > hundredblades.

Spirit weapons were not killable and did the work for you

Theif was heart seeker spam or unload spam

Mesmer was just mesmer (no one knew how to play it or do combos on it)

Ranger was just shoot everything that you could see and let cat 1 shot maul.

Ele was either a god or first to die every time

Also still had underwater combat which was super fun.

Man im thinking from litterally 7 years ago pvp was super simple lol its changed so much.

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > That skills is not the issue with the sword the issue is on sword 2's escape being so free. I think if you miss the initial strike on going in against your target you shouldn't get the ability to return skill.

> >

> > If you go in and miss you are stuck in and cant just ez out if someone properly reads your actions. This makes it closer to other targeted ports that double as gap closers or initiation tools.

> >

> > The power of being able to ez out at the first feeling that something might go wrong is what makes sword super strong its not the 3 skill in anyway.

> >

> > LOL also mesmer wanting plasma nerfs.... NOOOOOOO leave plasma alone its fine. Just dont let them steal from you just like you want everyone else to "just dodge" your burst.

>

> This would turn the sword into a massive long distance teleport.

>

> 900 port, miss, use 900 port skill again, miss, use 900 port again.

>

> Basically until you caught up to someone you could freely spam a gap closer.

>

> The better option option would be to change the flip skill to a slower casting more expensive version if you miss the strike, and a faster casting version if you hit.

I mean they could put a range limit on the skill so that you couldnt repeatedly use like, it wouldnt work unless you were in range of that target, but your idea works too. I just think thats were most of the frustration around sword comes from its not the Flanking/Larcenous Strike or even Pistol whip. Its the power to just leave x distance away which most other targeted ports dont allow. Once you go in you are in.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @topic

> > When I was new to the game I did encounter this build (it exists since mesmer exists and is not bound to an elite spec) and I got oneshot. I am still playing the game and I don't get oneshot anymore. Not on necro with 0 life force and not on any other class.

> >

> > RisenHowl what happened? Do I remember correctly that you play a lot of WvW? WvW is full of this gimmicky mesmer build. Tons of training opportunities... Your positioning leaves also some room for improvements. Esp. in the first scene: as a necro stay behind your team mates (and I mean literally!) until you got some life force. You are not the frontline at the beginning of a match! Never! If they move in slow motion to mid, you move even slower!

> >

> > Besides that, when you encounter a coordinated team while being in a team of pugs with bad map and team awareness, you get farmed (and me too!). And that will happen in any multiplayer-videogame. That's not GW2 specific.

>

> First target in every fight is the necro, it wouldn't have mattered if I went out first, third, or all at once. I was going to get targeted first. Not a problem with 1 mes, but with 4 there's no chance of avoiding the 1 shot. This was a no-win situation

It would have trust me you had you waited a bit you at least would have likely been able to wait out the mesmers stealth so you would have at least seen the mesmer coming at you.

Necros cannot run in first with 0 life force because you are just asking to be slapped to the floor by any profession that looks at you. Now some teams will always turn to focus you which can be good or bad depending on you and your team as your team gets the pressure pulled off them which might let them peel or support you. It really depends though. Yes necro is usually focused first which is why you dont go in first.... If you think you cant do mid then even try going far first (depending on whats there) you odds might be better. I usually depending on the map at least look to see what profession ran far on the enemy team before going to mid if I go to mid first im just asking to be killed because i have 0 LF i cant really defend myself without LF as a reaper and my offensive pressure is also not going to be very great without LF.

I would rather be late and have a chance to make a change in the team fight then be the first and dead and not have gotten to fight at all.

Im not excusing the fact that you would have still not gotten blown up in this specific match of pvp but i mean that initial first opening kill they got on you most certainly could have been avoided. especially if you saw at the start of the match you were up against 2 or 3 mesmers NEVER GO TO MID FIRST. That many mesmers on a team is just the perfect idea to start with Mass invis it would have 100% been worth it to hang back even if you still lost the team fight at mid because of it.

Trust me ive ran into mesmer comps that have hit me with this before too. ITs not fun, its frustrating, and just god awful but still. Some basic things you can do you should still do if it might make a difference.

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> All the 7 years including alpha/beta justification that because Necromancer Profession are at fault for being +1 shotting/instantly killed is what the problem is.

>

> In other word; if a Necromancer Profession instantly gets killed, it's completely our fault-we are excused of everything because of the extra life bar.

>

> In fact during guild wars 2 beta and through the years; us Necromancer Professions begged Anet to remove our second bar in replacement of more worth and value in the game. I believe a Anet dev stated that Necromancer Profession didn't need any of it because of our second life bar.

>

Back in the early stages of the game i can see that because damage was not as crazy as it is now. The damage soaker mentality or mechanic that is shroud was enough to make it keep up with the other professions if anything make others a bit spiteful of how well it worked. But in 2019 the damage is just too high from both power and condition and the while the damage soaking mechanic or play style is something that can still work it needs more QoL to make it work specif. There is not nearly enough stability or boons like retaliation to complement the damage soaker style of play that is shroud.

Basically when the game first came out it felt complete of right now it feels unfinished because other things have advanced via elites or reworks while the core base of how shroud works has seen no big improvements.

> after watching the Op video, it clearly showed that nobody noticed how fragile and vulnerable our Profession are

Necromancers are tough in the sense that they have a lot of hit points but fragile in terms of stability in other worse its easy for them to get locked down and nuked before the lock down expires Where as other professions might have better active tools to get out of lockdown before they would be nuked or just tools that allow them to void the lock down attempts for a while altogether.

They are also fragile in the idea of using conditional defense as a major part of their defense when conditional defense changes from season to season based on the number of other strong condition builds in rotation. For example right now weaver, mesmer, thief, and firebrand all pump out alot of annoying and strong conditions so people take alot of condi clear. Even as a power build necromancer needs to be able to apply weakness, chill, and cripple to ensure that foes cant stay on its face 24/7 but these conditions are not effective as they use to be back before HoT especially when chill and cripple hindered movement skills.

Its now possible for a chilled target to stick to you with just using leap or dash skills then all they need to do is cc you or immobe you. to lock you down. If other professions were not meta in condition people would run less condi clear and necros conditional defense aspect would be a bit stronger than what it is right now.

>

> While Elementalist, Engineer, Guardian, Thief, Ranger Professions have all the necessary all-in-one builds and unkillable mechanics at their disposal, Necromancer Profession have with only one

>

> In addition of being the slowest Profession in the game; we are forced to use our second bar as a punching bag while others have unlimited get-out-of the jail card escapability at their disposal.

>

> In conclusion, Necromancer Profession need to be completely redone and to be brought back to their origin root

I dont think it needs to be completely redone. The issue can be solved by toning down boons across the board which would lower damage or sustain from alot of the professions that have much higher insane kill potential right now or by simply retouching death magic a bit more. They are already reworking Unholy Sanctuary in todays patch which is a good start but as i said necromancer lacks tools to complete its base ideal of being a damage soaker. Im fine with being a damage soaker if i have the proper tools to soak that damage and not just be stunned the whole time for example death magic providing more stability or some other form of sustain mechanic.

>

> **'Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies'**

ESO's necromancer plays a bit like this and its really fun but it lacks a shroud mechanic >.< which i still think visually is a very cool mechanic for a spectral technique. But ESO Necro minions work more like mesmer phantoms they pop up do a big attack or a few attacks and go away leaving you a soul to consume after the fact.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer

>

> **HOW IS THAT A PROFESSION WHOSE ABLE TO SUMMON DEATH ITSELF IS DESIGNED TO BE CRIPPLED BY DEATH AND TO DIE FIRST??**

>

> **DEATH IS NECROMANCER ALLY, NOT TO BE ITS OWN ENEMY!!**

>

Lol the all caps xD

That skills is not the issue with the sword the issue is on sword 2's escape being so free. I think if you miss the initial strike on going in against your target you shouldn't get the ability to return skill.

If you go in and miss you are stuck in and cant just ez out if someone properly reads your actions. This makes it closer to other targeted ports that double as gap closers or initiation tools.

The power of being able to ez out at the first feeling that something might go wrong is what makes sword super strong its not the 3 skill in anyway.

LOL also mesmer wanting plasma nerfs.... NOOOOOOO leave plasma alone its fine. Just dont let them steal from you just like you want everyone else to "just dodge" your burst.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectly

> > > > Wait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

> > >

> > > i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

> >

> > To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

> >

> > > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:

> > > > @"SidewayS.3789" said:

> > > > What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.

> > > I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

> >

> > I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

> >

> > Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

> >

> > > @"Psientist.6437" said:

> > > Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

> >

> > My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

> >

> Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

But couldnt he talk to people in the distant past already there are books about the dragon talking to norn and such long before the plant dragon died so i think this is just his power correct. Also he was already able to keep frozen thins alive before the death dragon died to... this all seems like its just mostly him. If he knows what happend to kralkatorrik from eating different spectrums of magic maybe he chose not to do such things.

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

I mildly agree with you to an extent but no some outliers need to be removed from the game the extreme ones need to go. For example rampage hainvg cc skills doing 8-12k damage that can be chained together is not ok that needs to not be a thing. Am I happy about how they changed it no but the change IS needed.

Mesmer staff (utility weapon) having hella damage with low risk as a defenisve evaseive playstyle is not ok.

Also yes buff druid but dont make it where they can just be selfish with the sustain/healing buff increase if you are going to buff it make it so that its buffs are mostly about playing a bigger role on abilities used on allies not itself.

Im more so curious to know how much toughness you had.

If I see that your hp is quite high so i can assume you are running something with vitality but i cant tell what exactly just from watching the first bit of the video but yes.

I dont think burst like this especially from stealth should be in the game but mesmer is one of the most infamious professions known for skill cast stacking being able to use a great number of skill cast at the same time basically to combo that kind of damage. Generally its not fun to run into

In the first starting point of the match though you did make a critical mistake. You ran in as necromancer first when you are at your weakest because anet forces you to start with 0 life force still for some freaking reason.

Secondly you are running plague signet (dont use this, especially if using signets of suffering)

Spectral armor would have helped you greatly here as the clones and shatter hits count as indivual hits meaning they can each proc the 8% life force gain along side the mesmer itself.

Ideally you never run into a point first if anything you hide and hope your team does ok for a few seconds without you and try to slip into the fight un noticed hoping you can make enough of a difference and still win the fight. Generally speaking you were screwed the moment you ran in first with no other team members infront of you.

Still burst like this are generally just disgusting to me even more so when you have a very high toughness build and they still slice through it like a hot knife through butter.

Makes toughness and defensive stat investment irrelevant.

I personally wish anet would just remove all amulets from spvp and make people fight with profession base stats + a rune. If you want any additional stats you can only gain them via traitlines and traits. This would solve alot of the bs that exists in pvp alone but not all of it.

Most importantly stop forcing necormancer to start the match with 0 life force. Give them 25% or something.

Ive had matches like this and worse when i was on necro as its my most played profession and its generally not a good feeling. The feeling of "not being able to play" basically because you dont have tools to deal with that kind of pressure. Thats just a match where once they are spawn camping and you have made several attempted efforts with your team and still cant get out of the base you go afk to twitter till the match ends.

> @"killfil.3472" said:

> I like these changes.

> However I believe there are some keypoints that need reviewing for the necromancer ;

> -**Dhuumfire** : the number of Burn stacks and duration should change based on the specialization currently in use.

This needs to happen

> -**Foot in the Grave** : the short duration of the provided stability is much too small to truly compete with the other grandmaster traits. Perhaps it could pulse stability instead of providing a single stack?

Pulsing would be too strong and no way they would give that to necro at this stage in the game after they went out of the way to remove most pulsing boon traits in the game years ago.

> -**Putrid Defense** : a flat damage increase for a condition in a trait-line dedicated to defense is quite strange to me. Perhaps it could be replaced to something akin to "reduce damage taken per condition on yourself"?

Reduce damage taken based on conditions on unique conditions on your target you mean.

> -**Soul comprehension** : this trait has been criticised for a very long time. The increase of generated life-force from death is not only quite small, but it is also much too situational. If it is to remain a trait meant to bolster generation from kills, perhaps it could instead allow kills to generate life force when life force replaces health too? Otherwise, I believe it should be entirely redesigned.

It just needs to go away period effects on death only sees good use in wvw, moderate use in pve, and is trash in spvp.

> - **Lich Form** : I do not know if my opinion is unique, but to have a transformation skill atop our transformation profession mechanics seems redundant. However, there are 2 skills tied to it that could make for perfect replacements ; **Grim Specter**, if slightly tuned, could very well become the new spectrale Elite, and **Summon Madness** could replace the somewhat clunky Flesh Golem!

>

As of right now leave this alone

Golem is still strong cc busted for raids and Lich provides better burst for reaper with summon madness+grim specter when you dont need the golem for cc.

I use to discredit summon madness but i take it back its actually quite nice for additional bursting damage on power reaper in pve.

Just make the golem do bulls charge instead of going through the target it stops at the target and knocks them down does decent damage and fenzy attacks the knocked down target. and its good.

Going through a target is good on big bosses in pve but horrible when used on other players as you will almsot never land the golems final strike damage because it always goes through the target.

> @"aymnad.9023" said:

> I said earlier I like the patch but here is my list of other things I can see nerfed in the future. This is a personal list made with sPvP in mind. I am not fully aware of every interactions (as you are going to see) so I just tried to pick what seems to offers little counterplay or just do not like about a profession design.

>

> **Mesmer**:

> Power burst : I am going to be honest, I do not know what to nerf. This is not a bad build because it is a burst build, but because it is one of the most frequent burst with little to no tell (and fast 100%-0%). At least other burst builds are polite enough to warn you. FA weaver (cc or big red attack), FA tempest (usually air overload), sicem sniper (sound + effect on you), Berserker (Activation of berserker mode + signet [to be honest you have to look at the berserker to see that signet but this one goes up front in the fight])

Start with something similar to what you called out for corrupt boon with Arcane thievery tbh considering its very similar in regards of range, unblockable, and has little to no tell and a short cd.

As far as limiting burst reducing the number of skills that can be multi cast ontop of one another is also something you can start with. This would mean adding even a short cast time to a few skills to limit how many skills could be used at the same time along side one another.

>

> **Necro**:

> Corrupt boon : 1200 range, unblockable, little to no tell, short cd. Make it blockable, add some damage to make it pop aegis and just add the animation before the removal on the target so they can react.

This is fine only if things similar to it get the same change

>

> **Ranger**:

> Add some tell on gazelle charge, decrease the damage. Maybe do not make it rush so far.

This is a nice idea but hardly solves any of the other dozen problems with ranger.

Imo locking pets to the relatable xpac elites would go along way. Too many ranger builds in competitive regardless of core, rarely druid, or soul beast depend on smoke scale. Limiting smokescale would tone down ranger utility because in truth this one pet does too much for all builds.

>

> **Engi**:

> Waiting for the nerfs to go live then will see.

Not sure much will change Holo is still going to be low risk with high reward elite spec.

>

> **Warrior**:

> Core / spellbreaker interactions:

> Spellbreaker just highlights how some things are just incredibly strong on warrior. The rampage nerf is a good start but how many things do I have to dodge? Cc, burst, dodge their blocks and even dodge their dodge?

Thats just warrior in general lots of things you are forced to dodge or take high damage really the might stacking in high counts is likely the issue here.

> Reckless dodge : Damage and unblockable. The damage sounds small at first. But magebane tether + Might makes right it becomes just too much. All the might increasing the damage, the fact that it triggers more often suddenly becomes a free harass, even a finisher if the enemy is low and tries to block. (edit : I am targeting this instead of the tether + might combo because I think spellbreaker can keep the sustain if they get less damage. You could also target the duration/might of the tether.)

This needs to be made blockable or should not be able to crit then it would be fine.

>

> **Guard**:

> I am more looking at symbolbrand because of the stacking coming from zeal. Has nice damage while being hard to take down. At least you can fight it but what a light show. Rest is fine, waiting for the future effect on shield.

Dont go looking to nerf core lines when the problems are with firebrand mind you.

Symbols with core guardian are not a problem as core guardian has counters and weaknesses and lacks the sustain that firebrand brings along side it. I would start with lowering mantra effectiveness. Possibly reducing counts on all of them from 3 charges down to 2 charges.

>

> **Revenant**:

> Again not sure. Herald is the only thing I can think of. It still has high mobility, high damage and a decent sustain. The build still can perform incredibly well but is less common in ranked. Maybe something on staff which brings a lot?

This is likely a might stacking issue. Reducing self might gen here would be ideal considering it can generate a decent range of other boons.

They already announced that they are keeping a fine eye on these professions / builds in question i wouldnt worry about them too much.

Additionally i dont think top players should determine the overall balance of the game either because the majority of people dont play at that level of expertises the best balance should be some where in the middle ground if anything the middle to high ground but not the the minority top percentile or the bottom percentile which usually consist of new players.

I think its some what pointless to look at the top people and claim how balance needs to shift based on what they played or won with. If something is strong in general its strong in general top player or not it will show in in both top, high, and casual play if thats the case. ITs usually easy to spot.

I would say Mesmer first based on what you are looking for, if you get path of fire and heart of thorns despite what people say chrono can still tank very well and when built for power dps its still pretty solid but takes a bit of practice. IT has mass invis which can let you skip some adds from time to time and portal too so if you get to the end of something just open up a portal for you friends. Its alos got decent mobility tools.

Thief has invis and mobility and good dps and stealth to skip some mechanics here and there but not as good as mesmer, but the role of taking with it is pretty limited i think but then again maybe not ask more exp'ed thief players for advice there.

Engi takes alot of work to produce a fine gem at its end result but between its elites offers alot of potential to the table great dps, scrapper has tanking potential, and it has a aoe stealth which can be good for helping skip mobs. That said i think it can be a bit limited in the ranged dps department.

Ranger is good for mobility, ranged dps, and possibly tanking to some extent but you wont be helping others skip mechanics.

Based on what you are looking for though i think you best bets with trying mesmer / chrono/ mirage first based on what you are looking for as it offers kind of a bit of everything in your list if you put a bit of work into practicing it.

Other things do offer parts of what you are looking for but not all of them. IF you dont like mesmer try some of the other common answers you are hearing. Best of luck.

Late edit.

Guardian is also up on the table as its one of the strongest core professions right now it has great dps options and elites to pick from. There are also face taking abilities and skills basically, lots of blocks, etc that you can use with the idea where a boss needs a tank for other players. Its also probably one of the easier professions to learn.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > **LOOK. AT. THE. SCREENS.**

> > > > >

> > > > > **They DO NOT SAY "NO VALID PATH".**

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm done with you.

> > > >

> > > > Go redo these in first person and see if you can select those areas and send me new examples. Otherwise be done with your non blinking self and deal with not being able to blink to spots your character literally cannot see.

> > >

> > > Someone attached rocket boots to the goal post once they got proven wrong:

> > >

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > > > what kind of balance is that?

> > > > > > > like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just going to use thief as an example because it's what I know best and fits the bill. If you removed their ability to teleport/shadowstep you would have to compensate them for it or else they would just become..well...completely useless. If you buffed their damage they would just start nuking people from stealth which would be even more frustrating. If you buffed their raw defense they would be just be a low damage kitten warrior. Teleports are strong no doubt but I don't think they are placed on any profession which doesn't need them. If I **had** to argue against teleports the only one I personally have a grudge against in guardian but again, if they didn't have it, they would be so slow it would be a joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not a question of "why do some classes need teleports". But rather "Why do targeted teleports get to ignore line of sight while ground targeted ones have to obey line of sight."

> > > >

> > > > Im not even sure this is a question even though the answer should be fairly obvious.

> > > >

> > > > Because its physically impossible via the laws of physics for you to select the ground behind an object as we live in a 3d world you can only ever see 2 or 3 planes at a time.

> > >

> > > You've gone from "It's impossible to even ground target behind line of sight" to "these are just normal ports you can never do these ports with any class or skill. No Line of Sight doesn't exist that's why all these screen shots say No Valid Path." to "Third person doesn't count."

> > >

> > > There's no justifiable reason for enemy targeted ports to ignore line of sight rules and teleport through walls and floors onto enemies they cannot see if ground targeted skills cannot do the same, they are just arbitrary rules . Either enemy targeted ports should be forced to have a Line of Sight requirement, or Ground Targeted port skills should lose their Line of Sight requirement. Because right now you have the same fundamental mechanic with an arbitrary split in the rules and requirements for no reason that heavily favors two professions that abuse their lessened requirements for advantages they should not have.

> >

> > Well clearly there are some differences yes both cases move a character from A to B the differince being is that one gives the player the option of where B is while the other B is determined by having or requiring a target to even get to that position. That alone makes them different at the end result even if the fundamental concept is the same. Lastly you assume that the later favors those professions in all situations which is not the case. As their mobility tools cannot be used at all without a target while ground targets can. Yet another difference that makes them not completely fundamentally the same at the end result. Even more so when it comes to the versatility of them being used for going all in or escaping a situation.

> >

> > Some would probably say ground targeted ports are better depending on the situation in which you would use them for and how you play vs a port that needs a target to function.

> >

> > >

> > > Arenanet also clearly didn't expect teleporting through walls to be such a huge mechanic when they were designing the game because unless you either: A. Have a target called by another player you can take or B. Can see them through your 3rd party camera you can't tab target or click a target to use an enemy targeted no port anyway. So we're already looking at something semi-exploitative that people are getting around using the game's 3rd party camera. It's just the grounded targeted ones that can't do the same.

> >

> > Or they did they could have removed it from thief back when shadow return was instant and used to go back and forth through walls and other obstructions even while cced and they chose not to change it. On top of this they have added rev and given it a utility which allows them to teleport to a target and even mirage axe has this feature apparently to a lesser range. So to say they didnt expect these things is not likely the case. Even guardian has had the power to blink to a target but only a target for a long time and it was never an issue before.

> >

> > Overall all this frustration and complaining about a 7 year old mechanic that was never a massive issue till this post was made (to my knowledge, or at least i never saw it as one) is not worth all the finger pointing for what most people see as common gameplay with nothing wrong. It would be far better used trying to figure out how to balance out the few odd balls so that some risk is associated with blinks that do allow people to blink through obstructions or only allowing ground targeted blinks to go through obstructions if you can cover a target within the ground marker of the blink. Guardian has supportive skill similar to what I'm talking about where it will only blink you to the spot you mark on the ground if there is an friendly within its radius when you attempt to use the skill.

> >

> > EVEN if we do change how blinks work overall there are still going to likely be some spots where some things will work and others wont because the game is not perfect.

> >

> >

>

> This isn't something that's "never a massive issue till this post was made". People have always had issues found the ability to Steal and Infiltrator's Strike through walls preventing opponents from any capacity of knowing the enemy was coming all the way back since 2012. It's a topic now because in the current place for balance Condition Daredevil and Glint Shiro Herald are currently two of the most dominant builds and everyone is frequently on the receiving end of that.

Well for starters i never heard any complaints about guardians targeted ports or revs to that much of an extent. The main one was always theif sword because its the only targeted port that lets them escape to safety while the others are all or nothing.

Doing these changes wont stop those builds from being the some of the most dominate builds. They will still continue to be dominate because the ports are not the main issues behind what makes the builds dominate. Yes the ports are a small key feature of those builds.

Fixing the targeted ports so that they cant get to an obstructed target will curb them down a little but hardly do anything to remove their dominance. On the other hand if you make it so ground targeted blinks can be used in a similar manner all that does is make some builds met the same issues you are calling the other "suspected professions" out for while giving higher advantages to even more professions overall vs those that dont have ground or targeted ports in general.

Yes revs damage is way too high and no one will argue that with you.

Yes condi thief is way too safe while doing its damage and no one will argue that with you.

in the case of rev nuking their ports wont remove them from dominance in terms of strength because they can kill you without the port going through a wall or and obstruction if you are out in the open. They would still be pretty dominate and as I said their port literally does not work without a target and its all in when you use it. You cannot use it to escape or run once you use it go in unless you have another target you can select in the middle of combat. Even then you dont control where your landing point will be the target you selected does.

In the case of thief which is the only odd ball in terms of targeted ports (mostly looking at the sword) as it is able enter combat through an obstruction as well as disengage through an obstruction which is where i think the issue is when you compare it to other targeted ports. Almost every other targeted port forces you to go all in when you use it and the thief sword is the only one that breaks this rule especially when used with obstructions in the way. This makes condi thief super safe and obnoxious and as I said no one is going to argue with you that its not a problem because it is when stacked ontop of condi theif. That said at a base level of the skill alone it still requires a target to work at all.

What about guardian you didnt include them here with judges intervention or their Sword 2 despite them being strong. Even common firebrand builds do use the sword in their builds which allows for a lesser ranged targeted port, but once again this is not the issue as to why firebrand is so dominate. Those issues lie in firebrand itself.

Its not the ports (in most of these cases) its other things and messing with the ports will have minimal impact on their dominance and effectiveness with maybe thief sword + condi thief build being the exception.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > >

> > > **LOOK. AT. THE. SCREENS.**

> > >

> > > **They DO NOT SAY "NO VALID PATH".**

> > >

> > > I'm done with you.

> >

> > Go redo these in first person and see if you can select those areas and send me new examples. Otherwise be done with your non blinking self and deal with not being able to blink to spots your character literally cannot see.

>

> Someone attached rocket boots to the goal post once they got proven wrong:

>

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > what kind of balance is that?

> > > > > like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

> > > >

> > > > Just going to use thief as an example because it's what I know best and fits the bill. If you removed their ability to teleport/shadowstep you would have to compensate them for it or else they would just become..well...completely useless. If you buffed their damage they would just start nuking people from stealth which would be even more frustrating. If you buffed their raw defense they would be just be a low damage kitten warrior. Teleports are strong no doubt but I don't think they are placed on any profession which doesn't need them. If I **had** to argue against teleports the only one I personally have a grudge against in guardian but again, if they didn't have it, they would be so slow it would be a joke.

> > >

> > > It's not a question of "why do some classes need teleports". But rather "Why do targeted teleports get to ignore line of sight while ground targeted ones have to obey line of sight."

> >

> > Im not even sure this is a question even though the answer should be fairly obvious.

> >

> > Because its physically impossible via the laws of physics for you to select the ground behind an object as we live in a 3d world you can only ever see 2 or 3 planes at a time.

>

> You've gone from "It's impossible to even ground target behind line of sight" to "these are just normal ports you can never do these ports with any class or skill. No Line of Sight doesn't exist that's why all these screen shots say No Valid Path." to "Third person doesn't count."

>

> There's no justifiable reason for enemy targeted ports to ignore line of sight rules and teleport through walls and floors onto enemies they cannot see if ground targeted skills cannot do the same, they are just arbitrary rules . Either enemy targeted ports should be forced to have a Line of Sight requirement, or Ground Targeted port skills should lose their Line of Sight requirement. Because right now you have the same fundamental mechanic with an arbitrary split in the rules and requirements for no reason that heavily favors two professions that abuse their lessened requirements for advantages they should not have.

Well clearly there are some differences yes both cases move a character from A to B the differince being is that one gives the player the option of where B is while the other B is determined by having or requiring a target to even get to that position. That alone makes them different at the end result even if the fundamental concept is the same. Lastly you assume that the later favors those professions in all situations which is not the case. As their mobility tools cannot be used at all without a target while ground targets can. Yet another difference that makes them not completely fundamentally the same at the end result. Even more so when it comes to the versatility of them being used for going all in or escaping a situation.

Some would probably say ground targeted ports are better depending on the situation in which you would use them for and how you play vs a port that needs a target to function.

>

> Arenanet also clearly didn't expect teleporting through walls to be such a huge mechanic when they were designing the game because unless you either: A. Have a target called by another player you can take or B. Can see them through your 3rd party camera you can't tab target or click a target to use an enemy targeted no port anyway. So we're already looking at something semi-exploitative that people are getting around using the game's 3rd party camera. It's just the grounded targeted ones that can't do the same.

Or they did they could have removed it from thief back when shadow return was instant and used to go back and forth through walls and other obstructions even while cced and they chose not to change it. On top of this they have added rev and given it a utility which allows them to teleport to a target and even mirage axe has this feature apparently to a lesser range. So to say they didnt expect these things is not likely the case. Even guardian has had the power to blink to a target but only a target for a long time and it was never an issue before.

Overall all this frustration and complaining about a 7 year old mechanic that was never a massive issue till this post was made (to my knowledge, or at least i never saw it as one) is not worth all the finger pointing for what most people see as common gameplay with nothing wrong. It would be far better used trying to figure out how to balance out the few odd balls so that some risk is associated with blinks that do allow people to blink through obstructions or only allowing ground targeted blinks to go through obstructions if you can cover a target within the ground marker of the blink. Guardian has supportive skill similar to what I'm talking about where it will only blink you to the spot you mark on the ground if there is an friendly within its radius when you attempt to use the skill.

EVEN if we do change how blinks work overall there are still going to likely be some spots where some things will work and others wont because the game is not perfect.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

>

> **LOOK. AT. THE. SCREENS.**

>

> **They DO NOT SAY "NO VALID PATH".**

>

> I'm done with you.

Go redo these in first person and see if you can select those areas and send me new examples. Otherwise be done with your non blinking self and deal with not being able to blink to spots your character literally cannot see.

Im sorry you dont understand that the point of the camera is not the point of reference used for line of sight and that you dont understand the concepts of 3d space. ?

Late note as i said its been this way for 7 years for the most part deal with it most others do. Or just ask for blink to be turned into a target teleport so that you can port over walls at the expense of requiring a target first. idk

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> People here sleeping on / lowballing core guard.

Right

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > > > what kind of balance is that?

> > > > > > > like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just going to use thief as an example because it's what I know best and fits the bill. If you removed their ability to teleport/shadowstep you would have to compensate them for it or else they would just become..well...completely useless. If you buffed their damage they would just start nuking people from stealth which would be even more frustrating. If you buffed their raw defense they would be just be a low damage kitten warrior. Teleports are strong no doubt but I don't think they are placed on any profession which doesn't need them. If I **had** to argue against teleports the only one I personally have a grudge against in guardian but again, if they didn't have it, they would be so slow it would be a joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not a question of "why do some classes need teleports". But rather "Why do targeted teleports get to ignore line of sight while ground targeted ones have to obey line of sight."

> > > >

> > > > Im not even sure this is a question even though the answer should be fairly obvious.

> > > >

> > > > Because its physically impossible via the laws of physics for you to select the ground behind an object as we live in a 3d world you can only ever see 2 or 3 planes at a time. The game is also designed around this, so its not possible for you to slip your mouse behind something if you are on the opposite end of it and select the ground in that spot. At best you can slip beside it as physics would allow which most games are designed around even if they are in a fantasy setting you cant break the real world laws of physics lol unless they specifically design the game to allow you to do that and gw2 does not with ground targeted teleports.

> > > >

> > > > I still dont see how targeted teleports are suddenly getting so much flack we now know that 4 of the professions of the 9 at least have this optionally available via weapon skill or utility skill thats almost half the professions in the game. Ive already pointed out the only one that breaks the standard in terms of targeted tp's beyond line of sight if that one gets a minor adjustment (which im not sure its needed) all of them will have the same risk in terms of reward.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This post is legit nonsense, I've seen blink fail at a spot I had ground targeted plenty of times. Have you never heard of angling your camera downwards? This is like one of the most "I have never played thief, or mesmer, or ele with lightning flash" post I have ever seen.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > "Not possible" lol

> >

> > Thats technically not a wall but ok you know what i mean im talking legit walls. Thats just an odd pathing issue which is a totally different situation because people hide beind an open space where they can still be shot by projectiles and seen clearly...

> >

> > Dont call me out for nonsense and then use unrealistic nonsense to try and justify crazy.

> > Im sorry you cant understand the concept of being limited to 3 dimensional space

> >

> > Even if you point your camera down technically speaking your character in a lot of situations (not the one you showed) would not be able to see over to the other side of the obstruction. and if its a legit structure that people actually use to hide themselves as part of a strat in pvp it wouldnt be an example like this.

> >

> > hiding behind a wall or being on the other side of an object is no the same thing as standing on a "no port spot"

> > No port spots are just spots you cant tp through regardless not even targeted teleports can blink you to these spots some times. Those are a thing.

> >

>

> **That's not an odd pathing issue.** That's "No Line Of Sight", not "No Valid Path". You can see the error message in the image. **I made sure you can see the error message is specifically No Line Of Sight in the screen shot.** If I moved a little bit around the platform where I got line of sight past the central part of the fountain I'd be able to blink.

>

> First you're arguing about realism in a fantasy game, and not just any part but which teleports are "realistic". Some how a thief "targeting you" from behind a wall which they can't see through. , which is not realistic and a game mechanic, instantly teleporting to you and also picking your pocket and taking an item that isn't even something you're carrying is "realistc" but Blinking up a hill that's just too steep or behind a fence is "unrealistic".

>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

> There's a lot of places where you absolutely have valid path and would otherwise be able to port but for the game demands line of sight on ground based teleports that aren't Shadow Return and Infiltrator's Return.

>

> So how is it fair that there's so many places I can mouse blink on top of and have 100% absolutely have valid path but can't port while thieves can port through these exact same trajectories and back again over and over?

>

> Either ground targeted ports should have their LoS restrictions removed, if you have valid path and can mouse over it you can blink to it, or the enemy targeted blinks should have LoS restrictions added.

Some of these port spots from where you are standing are 100% things you cannot port to with a ground targeted blink even if you can see where you mouse its but that said some of these spots are just no port spots.

The game will aways say no valid path because thats the default message it gives when a port cannot go from 1 spot to another. Some of these spots in your examples are questionable but then again some of them are not things people hide behind either which was also part of the argument. Some of these are just spots out in the open and im sure in some of these spots even targeted teleports wouldn't work due to not having a valid path or the port would port you but still not reach the target.

Overall all this arguing now is silly the game has been this way for the bigger part of 2? 4? 5? 6? years with multiple professions having ground blinks that have limits and targeted blinks to a target that have limits even in the sense that they require a target.

There was always only ever 1 outlier and thats thief with the sense that it can go back after porting through a structure while other professions cannot at most thats the only thing that should be changed.