DoomNexus.5324

Please no.. Don't go down that rabbit hole again... Anet did this for the last 7 years and see where we arrived pre-Feb patch.. The only problem I see post-Feb patch was a veeery inconsistent execution.. I had high hopes after the first 2 major balance patches for things falling into place with more balance iterations and it only gets more refined. However - I don't need to tell this anybody - Anet failed miserably again. I think Anet is in even deeper trouble this time tho since - for me at least - they'd have to revert or rework so many core things they either fucked up or neglected but would probably never try due to backlash from someone like OP.. If you only keep buffing stuff we will end up more power crept than ever soon. The game is in such a bad and volatile state, I think Anet first and foremost has to figure out what each class and spec should accomplish in the game and sPvP in particular.. I actually wouldn't mind Anet specializing some elites into Boss fights (aka PvE) or Large Scale (aka WvW) so that they can basically neglect their relevance in sPvP. Or sort them into categories like Brawler, Roamer, Support, Bunker, ... and give them purpose, each elite spec with its own twist (due to class mechanics and stuff). I really think that Anet should finally give up on forcing that "no holy trinity" philosophy since we all know that this isn't the case.. We have elite specs that excel as a bunker, some as support and some in dmg output.. GW2 on the other hand has more than a "trinity" tho since there are a lot of roles a class can fulfill like said Roamer for example due to the sPvP not just being a team deathmatch. My point is that Anet should allow themselves to set the purpose of a class based on a role in the meta (or force them out of the meta) and balance according to this. If that means a class needs nerfs then please let the nerf hammer fall, I don't care about the Q_Q because "mY fAvOrItE cLaSs Is TrAsH nOw SiNcE I'm GeTtInG pUnIsHeD fOr My MiStAkEs"!.. (aka you now have counter play from more than 1 class). GW2 always has been a Rock-Paper-Scissor type of game but Anet keeps moving towards 1 class with 9 different flavors.. Something in me hopes Anet won't touch the current balance and the new elite spec gives thief torch, it would fit perfect.. More aoe condi burst spam ftw! And then even from stealth

It's not the first time this topic comes up (nor will it be the last time) and my stance on it hasn't changed for years. No, in my opinion we don't need more rewards in sPvP.. I don't want people coming into matches throwing the game after we lose the first mid fight because they don't care, because they get their pips/progress either way.. As long as we don't have full team queue and I don't have influence on what my team mates do, I want some competitive-minded people in my team and pushing more rewards is definitely the wrong way to achieve that. Now, I'm not saying that I don't want to get more stuff out of my time but like I said, I think that rewards give people wrong incentives to play the game mode and I also think that sPvP already gives enough gold and stuff... The real endgame is the gem shop anyway so gold is sufficient. Countless people in the past told me (in guild chat or whatever) how glad they are that they don't need to do PvP anymore because they got what they wanted.. You just don't want to be teamed up with people like that.. Raids/Fraks/.. or WvW has the advantage of being able to just kick those people and replace them, it's really just sPvP that suffers the most from people like this since you are stuck with them for the entire match and afterwards they are gone anyway but the damage (to your rating and mood) is already done. don't give people all the wrong reasons to go where they don't want to be just for that shiny shiny loot. I also don't really care about not being able to profit from my ascended shards, it doesn't hurt me when they stack up.. maybe sometimes Anet will introduce something useful but until then I don't want to force bullshit just for the sake of being able to spend my currencies.. There are _massive_ amount of stuff that needs to be fixed or reworked in sPvP but lack of (good) rewards is imho not one of them.

I don't dislike the theory behind CMC's initial balance patches and was excited for it to become better the more balance patches were rolled out. Unfortunately I think this is currently the worst state the balance was ever in. Maybe on par with the Mesmer perma daze bullshit but even then it was pretty much only this build that was busted af. Even Scourge+Firebrand meta was more enjoyable than this imho. Also I've noticed an increase in speed buff runes in meta builds as well as more mobility skills in almost every build's kit, while the "community" continues to demand mobility nerfs for roamer classes. So I support your observations, I've made the same. I'm a bit torn on what balance should be achieved tho. On one hand I'm usually all for balancing according to the highest level of play and the top 1% who master their stuff typically know best and I just have to learn my stuff better to git gud.. However in the case of GW2 I don't really think that this is the best idea tbh.. First, the population is really not large anymore and the "top 1%" are just a couple guys.. Nowhere near enough to equalize strong/unjustified opinions and due to the rock-paper-scissor type of gw2 class system I can only assume that perceived balance is always a matter of "strong opinion".. Especially condi builds suffer from this the most imho. I HATE condi builds in sPvP, both to play against them and to play them myself. But I think this only comes from someone who usually plays builds with poor cleansing options. I still think that condi bursts (especially burn) should be toned down a lot but that's a different topic. Second, ATs and high tier sPvP is just SO SOOOO incredibly underrepresented. With only 2 or 3 ATs per day someone can realistically participate in it just doesn't cut the corner imho. Anet is all for casual fun and casuals only, so I'd assume that they balance for the vast majority in the game mode aka Gold-level. But no, in gold you are pretty much only zerged down by burn every match and that's it. > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > 1. Too many classes/builds are becoming these multi-job role ace builds. What I mean is that 3 or 4 years ago a Thief was only good at +ing and decap, or a DH was only good at team fighting, or a support was only good as a support. Now in 2021, we've got classes that are suddenly nearly as fast as a Thief, while being a half support, while being a dominant team fighter, while also being one of the strongest side node 1v1s to encounter. (...) Balance issues that go deeply enough to where they disturb the classic 4 job role play and good dynamic it once had. I fully agree and I think this heads in the wrong direction. At this point I'd even prefer if Anet creates categories for elite specs or something.. Like.. Duelist, Brawler, Support, Bunker, Roamer, whatever and Anet should focus on balancing them accordingly. Every class can still bring their own mechanics into the mix and how they achieve the goal of this spec. Otherwise I'm afraid that Anet will equalize every class and every elite spec to a point where we play the same build with a different flavor.. We had such a good rock-paper-scissor system but now everything gets multipurposed.. I wouldn't mind this if we had competitive/ranked team deathmatches like 3v3 or something but in a 5v5 Conquest, the counter-system REALLY shines imo.. Supported by a (separate) full team queue and I'm back in again. (and yes I'm aware that separate full team queues would take horribly long to match people together and aid wintraders but.... I'd take that every day over the clown fiesta we had to struggle with the last couple years.. at least in

I actually quit the game. But I'm still curious about the state of PvP.. I will come back if they improve sPvP tho. Aka: Stop the condi burst/aoe bs (especially burn), add a separate full team queue for ranked (so pvp guilds finally have a reason to exist again - fuck unranked and AT as the main "competitive" sPvP content) and/or bring 2v2 or 3v3 as a standalone ranked mode... Maybe rework some of the old maps and bring them in to ranked again or even Stronghold. Until there are no improvements to this I'm not coming back.. Not even for EoD, even tho I've been waiting for Cantha since release ngl... PvE is just an added bonus for me and I don't care a single bit about the story. GW2 has the best smallscale PvP system in the entire MMO-genre imho. but it's just frustrating to play the game like this.

> @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > > A 'support' sitting alone on a node is a waste of slot. A smart 'support' will be in group fights where it can be easily focused. > > Also, a smart dps player will not be engaging in a 1v1 with a support. L2p issue here. > > I call bs. Support holding a node by itself is insanely common and** it can often even 1v2 forever by its self bringing huge value.** The only problem with this is having team mates who think they need to engage into them. Honestly. A side noder in the enemy team camping a node solo is almost a free win if everybody ignores it. If one dude is camping a node the entire match it means that you gain a 5v4 advantage over the other 2 nodes - simple as that. Use it! You only need to hold 2 nodes to win the match, don't be stupid and waste your time against a bunker. Not only limited to bunker camping a node but rather in general.. through playing in every skill group from silver 1 to plat 3 I've noticed that in lower elo people tend to be super greedy.. Like.. If you aren't rotating IMMEDIATELY! after the enemy team capped far and decap it, someone else will.. Most of the time this means that they leave their team in mid in a disadvantage, lose the team fight and guess what happens next? They sit on far alone and get zerged by 2 or 3 guys while your mates respawn.. Needless to say they lose map control completely. I've lost countless matches because of exactly 1 guy constantly forcing the third node we haven't capped. If they just stood with their team most of those matches would've been easy wins.. On another note: Even tho I'm playing as a roamer I've experienced way better success if I support my team in winning the team fights instead of going for the decap immediately. Even if I'm bound in mid or close most of the time because this may allow another team mate to go straight for a decap after respawning for example while equalizing a team fight and not lose map control. I know I've focused a lot on far in this example but same is true for close. It's a bit harder to hold far due to shorter respawn paths but you can also just play mid+far and let them hold close. Of course punish it asap if the support actually supports the team and leaves the node. But having map control is way more important than having a tripple cap or a neutral third node.

I hope the current Anet team will never touch gw1 PvP tbh and I honestly don't think that they could add much to the PvE either. There is 0 sense for competitive gameplay left in the company (or if there is then they are pretty good in supressing it) and I hope Anet doesn't destroy the remaining pvp playerbase in gw1.. there are actually discord servers and stuff where people organize queue-events every saturday or something - really cool in my opinion and says a lot about the game and the former Anet team to focus on that.. GW1 actually started as a pvp game too and even tho they heavily invested in PvE because it was successful among players, they didn't fail to add new competitive content alongside. You could even make PvP only chars, that's crazy! I just remembered this was a thing back then.. I also don't think gw1 and gw2 should meet, they are completely different games with focus on completely different things and I have accepted it by now. First I was really pissed because gw2 is just _sooo different_ but I've come to appreciate as what it is: A good game but a really bad successor. Especially due to the lack of pvp content/modes/support. But also the weird redesign of the landscapes and stuff. Not everything's bad tho, it's a good game and I much prefer the movement and combat system of gw2 (actually I think it's the best in the entire mmorpg genre but then again, I also don't think it's worth anything without meaningful competitive content). I'd appreciate them adding jumping however, even tho I am fully aware that this would break nearly every map but I actually wouldn't mind. Also a remake would probably not be the right format as it's just too much content to re-do in a new engine, especially since all the models and textures would need to be re-done and that's a MASSIVE amount of work, it's not like importing the old stuff into a new framework and press "Build" or something. If Anet made a new mmo they should first of all invest in modernizing their engine or completely ditch it and switch to a decent existing one. The world of engines doesn't solely consist of Unreal, Cry and Unity either.

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > already on top100 ? or top25 ? no? why? if everyone around so bad ?? > > > > I was in top100 a couple seasons ago for a while (almost top50) and even there were some people who have pretty poor game(mode) knowledge to be honest. > > For example people who kept running into 1v1's against a side noder that were built to counter their builds and flaming the rest of the team for losing the game (pro tip: in this situation, if you can't win a 1v1 against a side node camper/bunker -> use the enemy camping to your advantage and gain a 5v4 map control over the other 2 nodes and zerg down the camper.. within a reasonable time, if the dude is too tanky and you waste a lot of time you'll lose map control again). > > > > > @"ixora.3569" said: > > > You get these brain dead players literally not capturing objectives and going into a team fight alone and getting destroyed. This game has been out for a while now you would expect people to at least know the basics. > > > > Unfortunately Anet stopped supporting a competitive scene in gw2 pvp A LOOONG time ago (if they ever did honestly..) > > So yea, unfortunately that's the situation and has been for several years now. I quit the game some time ago for that exact reason and will probably never come back at this point.. I'm just here because I'm bored and can't do anything useful/meaningful at the moment. > > How about having fun with the game and just play If I could have fun in the game I would yea, like a couple years ago. sPvP in the game has been in an "awkward" place at best, for years. But now with the ever shrinking spvp playerbase (at least it feels like it's still on decline and queue times are longer than ever while the quality of matches is going down) and the horrible, horrible balance it just feels worse and more frustrating than ever. I mean the balance apparently feels worse than before for a larger portion of the player base other than just me, probably due to very different reasons tho. My personal problem with it is the condi creep that's happening in lower elo (at least on EU). I know, apparently in high elo, tournaments, etc it's still power creep but I can't play as much as I'd like, have to play in off-hours and on weekends so I can't really get out of gold atm. In my matches everyone's just spaming aoe condi fields or hybrid/condi builds and it's annoying, I have plenty screenshots with killfeeds where all the top damage sources are condis and condis only (mostly burn) and this is what 95% of matches are for me atm (in my elo in my region). The typical reaction to that statement is "ermagerd it's still power creep just look at the last mAT and I only have power builds in my matches ululul l2p condi is good" - yea... keep that to yourself pls, that's not what I experienced. The thing is I don't say condi builds are bad and demand nerfs to the ground, it's just another playstyle that I hate, that's it. I hate to play against it and I hate to play it myself. I've played condi builds for a while before I quit and I performed way more consistent and better than with various different power builds in this (low elo) meta. I ranked up and stuff but I realized that I just don't like the game anymore with that playstyle and it just is not fun anymore. I just need to land a couple hits (or not even have to hit directly but just let them pulse out) and nobody can do anything against it unless they have a dedicated support that can outheal everything. With me just standing there and doing the bare minimum to survive or disengage because I don't have to do if they are out of cleanses and can just watch them ticking down. This is actually hilarious to watch in 1v1, some people will themselves disengage but die anyway because they can also only look at their health go down without anything to counter it after a non-telegraphed attack with 0 cast time struck them. But then again, it's not what I want to have in my matches, I don't think this kind of stuff should have a place in competitive play, it's just cheesing. It's the equivalent of a cannon rush or 6 pool in vanilla Star Craft 2. It's personal preference, if you think condi builds are the coolest shit ever or your experience differs from mine then great, have fun please, I don't want to stop anybody. I actually just wanted to have a look at another thread I've posted yesterday because it was not directly related to gw2 and interested me. I won't have a look in here anymore so no need to respond to the comment (gw2 mods will probably remove it due to being off-topic anyway :) ) Have a great time with the game everybody.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: Very interesting, I didn't know this was public. Thanks for sharing. > The system it's based on (Glicko) was designed for 1 vs 1 player chess games, where it makes sense because no other person can statistically change your rating. However in a multiplayer setting, your rating is essentially as good as the average rating of your team, and where the win condition is simply to win or lose, means MMR which is supposed to be "defined" by player skill is not defined by your actual skill level, but rather your teams average chance to win or lose a game. That to me is the huge problem with the system as a whole, and also why we see such DRASTIC player skill level differences from player to play in g1-g3, where statistically is supposed to be the top of the populations bell curve for skill level, and yet brand new players and veterans are placed there. I partially agree. I don't think Glicko is not suitable for multiplayer games in general. CSGO for example uses glicko-2 as its core rating system and I think it works really well there. I just think that gw2's way of determining rating gain/loss is abysmal. For example if - for the matchmaking system - my high rating is in theory offset by lower mates then I shouldn't get punished more than them if we lose imho aka we should all lose or gain the same amount of points. For me that just doesn't make sense from a fairness point of view. I understand that this is to prevent people from breaking through the roof or go to 0 rating because growth and decline wouldn't be bound to the opponents but this makes it really hard for certain classes imho or at least harder than for others. Some classes just can't carry as much as others can so just because I have a very high rating compared to my enemies doesn't mean that I can win the game single-handedly. Of course it also depends on my team's and my enemy's team comp etc. Stamping a player with a single number is a bit problematic in general imo, since people vary from day to day and their matchups are also not equal. Sometimes I have matches where I get absolutely obliterated on T side for example but then on CT I get like 2 kills per round average and clutch rounds in 1vX. Maybe it has to do with the team eco and I'm not that good when we have to do halfbuys or ecos every other round or so. In GW2 for example classes, elite specs and even down to certrain builds will matchup very differently and I think this should be considered for the matchmaker as well. But then again I understand that this will probably never happen since the MM would need to be reconfigured every time they shift the balance and other (un)favourable matchups emerge. But I'd love to see GW2 take a step towards the csgo model (or literally any other competitive game really) to first of all hide the actual mmr and only display the skill group. Also Anet pls make the gain and rating a bit more elaborate than what your personal rating is compared to the average. There are a lot of metrics available and while none is really good at representing how big your impact in the game was and therefore how you performed, it sure will be more representative if several metrics are used than just say "ok your rating was 50 above average now you get only +9" or something.

> @"Local is Lekker.2970" said: > I played at the start of the covid pandemic, and after a really hard time got my Engineer to 80. I started working on map completion and used the hero points I got to unlock and learn Holo. I started playing again a few days ago and decided to instead go scrapper. That was a huge mistake unfortunately. My engineer is now extremely underpowered that I have finally gotten to the expansions/living world. It is really hard to kill things, and I die very easily, even with Dire equipment. > > To be honest, if there isnt a way to fix this, my alternatives to is delete the character or stop playing again. I hope you can give me a possible solution on how to reset the hero points I have spent somehow. Hero points are not an issue in gw2, there are A LOT more than you will ever need to unlock everything. I have everything unlocked on my main and a couple hundred hero points more. I don't think there's any reason to delete a character other than that you don't want that specific character anymore tbh and replace it with something different. I think there's no way of actually resetting your hero points spent tho. A good way to farm more hero points are hero point challenges in HoT or PoF because they immediately give you 10 hp if you complete them. Or you could get testamonies of heroics and unlock the hero points from HoT/PoF challenges via a vendor in WvW. If you feel "extremely underpowered" check if your gear is at level 80 and at least exotic (preferably ascended but that's only ~5% improvement so nothing to worry about really. Also add some runes and sigils maybe) and make sure that your build is at least somewhat suited for your weapons, utilities, stats and playstyle. No need to take a trait that reduces cooldowns for pistol skills if you play with rifle for example. Also do all your equip pieces have the same stats (in your case Dire) or do you also have some other stat combos equipped that don't suit your build? Because really this should not be an issue, any specialization (even core) should be at least viable in open world content or story. Engineer, Scrapper, Holo,.. doesn't matter, the class should not feel underpowered. If everything else is set up correctly you should really look into improving your game knowledge regarding combat, rotations, combo finisher, etc. Look at some open world/fractal/raid builds and read their play guide for damage rotations, survivability, etc. Metabattle has a lot to offer in general and there are also other good websites where specialized builds for fractals or raids are kept up to date. Arenanet once published a blog post or something regarding the damage output (I think in raids but don't know anymore) and according to their data the highest performing players had 10 times the damage output compared to the worst perfoming players. I'm just speculating for this but I'd assume that for survivability it's a similar story.

> @"lare.5129" said: > already on top100 ? or top25 ? no? why? if everyone around so bad ?? I was in top100 a couple seasons ago for a while (almost top50) and even there were some people who have pretty poor game(mode) knowledge to be honest. For example people who kept running into 1v1's against a side noder that were built to counter their builds and flaming the rest of the team for losing the game (pro tip: in this situation, if you can't win a 1v1 against a side node camper/bunker -> use the enemy camping to your advantage and gain a 5v4 map control over the other 2 nodes and zerg down the camper.. within a reasonable time, if the dude is too tanky and you waste a lot of time you'll lose map control again). > @"ixora.3569" said: > You get these brain dead players literally not capturing objectives and going into a team fight alone and getting destroyed. This game has been out for a while now you would expect people to at least know the basics. Unfortunately Anet stopped supporting a competitive scene in gw2 pvp A LOOONG time ago (if they ever did honestly..) So yea, unfortunately that's the situation and has been for several years now. I quit the game some time ago for that exact reason and will probably never come back at this point.. I'm just here because I'm bored and can't do anything useful/meaningful at the moment.

> @"ixora.3569" said: > Do they give you teammates that are same skill level? No that's not how matchmaking works. At least usually, I actually have no idea about gw2 specifics but a matchmaking system (mms) usually tries to balance the average of teams with the least deviation as possible. The longer you have to wait the more deviation the mms allows. So assume 2 new buddies with an mmr of 1200 (default). If the 2 players are looking together for a 2v2 match, then ideally the mms would match them against 2 other 1200mmr players. The average mmr of both teams being 1200 with 0 deviation - perfect scenario. But if the amount of players searching for a 2v2 match is abysmally low and you have to wait for an eternity (so that the mms increases the allowed deviation by a lot) then it would still be perfectly fine (tho not desirable - even for the mms) to match them against a 1600mmr and a 800mmr player (the average of both teams being (1600 + 800) / 2 = 1200 again). In theory the advantage of the 1600mmr player should be canceled out by the disadvantage of the 800mmr player. Depending on a number of things this can actually be pretty acurate or not even remotely. On a side note: Your skill rating gain and loss after a match depends on your personal mmr vs the team/opponent's average if I remember correctly, so the 1600mmr player in the scenario above will lose A LOT of rating if they lose and the 800mmr player will lose barely anything. The opposite is true if they win, so the 1600mmr player will gain little to no skill rating (some Legendary players even got +0 in some matches) but the 800mmr player will gain a lot. So if you get like +11 to +13 rating at the end of a match then you were pretty well balanced with/against the team (purely by rating, there's a lot more to gw2 matchups imho tho so it can still feel very one-sided, for example the team compositions). If you gain like +8 or something this means you were meant to win that match due to the enemy team's average mmr being a lot lower than your personal one so it "should be easy anyway". On the other hand if you gain like +17 it means the enemies were actually supposed to win based on mmr (aka their average is higher than your rating). At least if the volatility has worn off. Why 1200mmr as default you may ask? Because that's usually ~about the average mmr across all players, most people are somewhere in gold1-3 if I'm not mistaken. Due to the volatility you get "corrected" VERY quick.. Like.. lose your very first match against a team with lower mmr and you'll lose ~100 rating (or gain 100 if the numbers are right and you win). But volatility is a whole other topic. So if you are somewhere in gold you are very likely to get matched with(or against) new players from time to time. And even if you are high silver/low plat you will have some completely new players when queue times are long. That's also the reason why I always cancel and restart the queue if it takes longer than ~4-5 minutes. I have no idea whether or not this helps tho or if the gw2 matchmaker works differently regarding the deviation and 4 minutes is also a completely arbitrary number. I'd also prefer to start out at ~1100 or maybe even less mmr. I don't know for sure if this is also tied to the re-placement matches but if you have mmr from a previous season then you will... I don't know if I remember correctly.. Start with (1200 + [Last Season MMR]) / 2 mmr and then carry on with the 10 placement matches (which only hide your gain/loss btw, they still count like every other match with A LOT of volatility).

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > Emphasis on: _But is this really what GW2 should be?_ Not a statement at all btw, it's not a rhetorical question, just something to think about. It doesn't have to be answered here either, guess everyone should just answer this for themselves. Something to think about for Anet as well if someone reads this. > > > Well, that is exactly what makes GW2 unique. Drop this, and it would truly just become "another wow/ffxiv, but worse". > > > > I can see that for some players but I personally disagree. GW2 has a lot of stuff that separates it from all the other mmos, first and foremost the extremely smooth and fluid combat and movement system and a truly equalized sPvP system (aka where gear has no impact) - literally no other mmo can offer that and that's exactly the _only_ reason I stuck with GW2 until now... BnS has gear-agnostic pvp but only in 1v1 arenas so I don't care for that. > > Well, hold on ... it's not 'for some players' ... the fact that there are things that differentiate GW2 from other MMO's and it's not a matter of opinion. Do people in this forum even read past the very first sentence before replying? Because in the next sentence I'm listing 2 things that are unique to GW2 and are in fact the reason why I was still playing it because they appeal to me. The "I can see that for some players" was refering to the statement "this [that GW2 is just a filler game for your main game] is what makes GW2 unique". Because for me it is not. This doesn't make GW2 unique for me and apparently neither for a lot of other players. I would like to be able to play GW2 as my main game without burning out after just a few weeks. This doesn't mean that _everyone_ experiences that but my statement for "some players" still hold. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > GW2 SHOULDN'T be anything BUT what Anet decides it will be. So to answer your question, YES, that IS really what GW2 should be, because Anet decides that. This is exactly the reason why I wrote this: > Something to think about for Anet as well if someone reads this. The first part regarding > it doesn't have to be answered here either, guess everyone should just answer this for themselves. Was just a very broad statement because everyone is also free to make up their mind about whether they are satisfied with the state of GW2 and in return if they want to play it. I think this will be my last activity on this forum. Wish everyone a great time with the game and stay healthy.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > Emphasis on: _But is this really what GW2 should be?_ Not a statement at all btw, it's not a rhetorical question, just something to think about. It doesn't have to be answered here either, guess everyone should just answer this for themselves. Something to think about for Anet as well if someone reads this. > Well, that is exactly what makes GW2 unique. Drop this, and it would truly just become "another wow/ffxiv, but worse". I can see that for some players but I personally disagree. GW2 has a lot of stuff that separates it from all the other mmos, first and foremost the extremely smooth and fluid combat and movement system and a truly equalized sPvP system (aka where gear has no impact) - literally no other mmo can offer that and that's exactly the _only_ reason I stuck with GW2 until now... BnS has gear-agnostic pvp but only in 1v1 arenas so I don't care for that. But anyway.. I don't know, today I just came to the realization that I'm finally beyond the point where I care. I don't really care for GW2 anymore, I don't really care for Arenanet (as a company) anymore, if NCSoft would close Anet and shut down GW2 tomorrow I wouldn't even be sad or mad or anything ngl. I'd be sorry for the employees at Anet but that's it. After 15 years with Guild Wars and several thousands of hours in GW1 and GW2 I'd even sell my account without a second thought - if it was allowed by the ToS, which it unfortunately isn't, so that's not an option. I honestly don't think I'll even check out EoD anymore, even though I've been waiting for Cantha since release of gw2.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > The few remaining players that are still doing sPvP already are spread too thinly over the existing modes. Which are? Conquest and?... ... ??? Still waiting for an example of another mode here until my queue for Stronghold pops because nobody's playing it. > Introducing more modes would be nothing other than detrimental. I could not disagree more. I'm pretty confident in saying that one of the three major issues with PvP that lead to players leaving the game mode (and ultimately the game) is a lack of variety. You can't expect players to play the same game mode for over 8 years and not getting bored. It's virtually the same apart from slight changes in map rotation. I'll give the game another 2 or 3 years until pvp is completely dead. I mean the queues take a lot longer now than 1 or 2 years ago already. With the lack of care from Anet and a constantly decreasing pvp population I don't think the pvp community could keep itself alive for too much longer. Especially with other games releasing and people just leaving to get something new. Incentives to return are getting smaller and smaller. I also don't think that a Steam Release or EoD will bring a lot of new life into the game. But I'm really curious to see the reviews on Steam once it has released.. There are a lot of competitive players on Steam so PvP being in such a bad state will certainly hurt its overall rating quite a bit I guess. The pvp community also was never too small for anything, Anet just never gave any incentives to stay active, so a lot of people quit, easy as that. Quite the opposite, with the game mode stagnating and players leaving Anet actively hamstrung the remaining playerbase by tailoring everything towards a lower population instead of taking counter measurements. For example the removal of full team queue.. it was supposed to equalize matchmaking but singlehandedly eliminated any reason for PvP guilds to exist and turned PvP into a(n almost) singleplayer mode. Literally the entire sPvP game mode has not changed a bit between the era of ESL and now. Swiss it band aiding the flawed system, nothing more. How is any sane person expecting things to improve under these circumstances? It will only get worse and with time marching on things will just accelerate. The other 2 factors I blame is a lack of guild/community content - there's simply no reason for a PvP guild to exist without full team queue (AT's just don't cut it with their schedule and Swiss doesn't fix that either) and the balance if someone's curious.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > > > I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. > > > > > > Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. > > > > > > Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. > > > > > > Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. > > > > > > 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... > > > > > > Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > Imagine thinking thief can do nothing about aegis and blocks > > > > > > > > I mean, sure, you can use shortbow 4 to interrupt blocks, but how exactly do you intend for the thieves to kill the guardians? The guardian can literally just sit on the points and the thieves are powerless to do anything. 5 thieves in general is atrociously bad, 5 thieves and you cant share builds? Yeesh. > > > > > > Ok get a team of 5 guards and I’ll gladly beat u with a 5 thief team. > > > > No, you wont. There is a reason people have done well with 5 guard teams in AT before (yes, they were memeing, but still), but no one has even tried to bring a 5 thief team to an AT before. Because they would get clapped and lose in round 1. If I were to put in the effort, what would happen is that your team of 5 thieves would lose embarassingly, and you will ignore it ever happened. But thats not worth the effort. > > NoOnEhaSeVRbroUghTa5tEeFteamToanAtbeFore You don't get it huh? It's not just _AN_ AT, OP specifically states special rules. Out of curiosity, which builds did you guys run on those 5 thieves? Everyone a completely different one? And did you fight against another 5-man stacked team following exactly those rules as well? Like.. You can't just say "yea I've done that yesterday" since this, with almost 100% certainty, didn't happen under the exact rules stated by OP and with the expectation for them to be fulfilled for both teams. So unless your AT the other day happened exactly like "5 thieves - _everyone with a different build! - fought against 5 X _everyone with a different build as well!_" your example of your AT is invalid here and has absolutely no business in being picked in this case. But after skimming through the thread I can only assume you're trolling and spaming kitten, so I won't look at this thread anymore, bye.

I think every class with strong dps AND strong support would definitely win in a "every player has to play another build"-setup. Guard, Rev and Necro would be my top bets. Ele, Ranger, Engi and Warrior would probably be also pretty serious contenders but I doubt there are enough viable builds atm to keep a full team on-par with the ones mentioned earlier. I'm not saying they don't have strong builds but in specifically the setup OP established, I think there's just not enough viable variety with the current balance. Mesmer and thief would probably fail pretty bad since I don't think their support would be nowhere good enough to contend with the others and especially thief would lack pretty much everything in this kind of setup. Mesmer maaaaybe if they'd run different variations of burst builds and manage to end the fight before it even starts but I don't think so. > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > If u cannot win an at on 5 thief than u bad. Are u serious?. What great builds do thieves offer? Keep in mind, everyone has to play a different build.. 5 thieves against 5 guards? I doubt there would be any chance for the thieves if the guards are just camping close and mid, there's just nowhere near enough damage nor sustain to do anything. Again.. what great builds have thieves available? p/d condi? Is pretty much useless against guards, especially with a support.. d/p? Nowhere near enough damage to spike through aegis, shields, ... Same for Rev, Necro, probably even Ranger.

> @"CashCow.9548" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > How are people complaining about content in GW2, i mean seriously? > > > > This game has **tons** of content. > > I don't think OP was complaining about the lack of content but rather the lack of game's identity overall. GW2 has alot of stuff to do but it doesen't excel in any of those. PvE truly is a joke in this game. Open world PvE is just press "W" to move forward and "1" for auto attacks. This game has no challenge. > > PvP is long forgotten by the devs. We're lucky to get balance patches here and there. Personally I think WvW is still very fun despite being completly unchanged since the game's introduction. Exactly this. Unfortunately everyone here seems to have missed my point entirely. Like I have said a couple times _I don't_ want to compare GW2 with those other games nor do _I personally_ think those other games mentioned are superior, I'm on the GW2 forums after all and not on FF14's, WoW's or ESO's forums. Anyway, I think I've said everything to clarify where I'm coming from, where I wanted this thread to go so.. nevermind then. > But I disagree with OP when they say GW2 has no identity. GW2 has identity and they sure know it, they just don't like it. > And that is that GW2 is a casual game that will never be your main game, but rather just something you play on the background whilst playing other games or something you touch a couple of times in a year (usually with new living world patches) just to disappear again for the next 3 months. > > And I think it's good that MMO genre has one of those casual games in the roster. Yes so we still do agree, this is kind of what I also said in my initial post: > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty reasons to stick with gw2 like the casual friendly non-existence of gear progression or that everything is "kinda enjoyable" to a reasonable extent or for a limited amount of time. But is this really what GW2 should be? A kinda enjoyable gap filler for releases in other mmos/games? Idk. Emphasis on: _But is this really what GW2 should be?_ Not a statement at all btw, it's not a rhetorical question, just something to think about. It doesn't have to be answered here either, guess everyone should just answer this for themselves. Something to think about for Anet as well if someone reads this.

> @"Crono.4197" said: > Everything you said is subjective, especially the PVE part. > You said that the game has no PvE content. I kind of disagree, because I always find things to do in-game, even if we ignore dungeons and such, there are still so many stuff to do. I hope you don't mean my initial comment? Since I didn't say that. > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > I'm not saying (...) there's 0 PvE content (...). Also the stuff regarding horizontal progression.. Yea, I also like not being forced to farm shit every couple months, that's also a huge factor why I keep coming back to gw2. I don't think the PvE part is _bad_, I like that it's non-standard and doesn't force me to do anything. But you simply can't deny that Anet doesn't particularly focus on delivering content, which was my whole point. > @"maddoctor.2738" said: So no GW2 isn't outperformed by WOW, not even close, it's of course your opinion if you think it does, if you are into constant gear progression and endless gear treadmills and boring combat, that's up to you. Also no, that's not _my_ opinion, like I also said in my initial comment. I don't like or prefer the games mentioned in my post so I don't like FF14 nor WoW, but I know that a ton of people are leaving for either of those game for their PvE aspects. See my quote below. > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > Not everybody likes any of the games mentioned above and that's ok, I don't like most of them or at least aspects of them either. But this should not be a "Look at dis game, it's so much better- Anet please make GW2 like [insert other mmo]" to begin with. It's a fact that a lot of people quit gw2 to play some games mentioned previously for said reasons.

Since everybody does it I'll pull the most useless and stupidest argument for that ever. "BuT iVe SeEn SoMeOnE oN tWiTcH sTiLl PlAy NaDe HoLo So It Is StIlL GoOd!" Given, it is usually "someone in the last AT" and not "someone on twitch" but then again I don't watch AT-spectates since Jawgeous is gone. But for everyone complaining now, I fully agree.. refering to the AT builds is even more useless and stupid since you simply can't compare the balance of "5v5 full team builds picked specifically against the opponent's comp" with "generic silver- and gold-rank solo queue builds" in the slightest.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > @"snoow.1694" said: > > > Literally one of the most dodged Guardian skills ever with a long animation before it even starts > > > > By that logic Death's Judgement used to be totally balanced as well. > > If you look at only that aspect, but even then you're still wrong. DJ has never had a CD and could be done as many times as you want if you had the initiative, and now every time you stealth. 4 second reveal? Just remove it. When Guardian missed focus 4, it's on full CD. So having no CD automatically means "could be spamed" regardless of any other resources that have to be spent - got it. Initiative is also just a very minor factor indeed, it's like thieves have an infinite amount that recharges instantly.

> @"Jekkt.6045" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > I have a very very very faint hope that End of Dragons will introduce some new pvp modes or at least 1, since back in GW1 it was (also) the Cantha-expansion that brought Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. I loved Fort Aspenwood and I'd love to see it return or maybe something similar. > > There are actually discord servers specifically for organizing FA matches where for example on saturday evening people will all join at a certain hour and fill queues, so I'm not the only one who loved the mode. > > You're gonna laugh. I played stronghold the past few days and it's a lot of fun. Sure, the game mode has problems but it could have potential with some fixes and maybe 6v6 instead of 5v5. It just feels way more diverse than conquest because it has more room for strats. I'm not gonna laugh, I've suggested a stronghold rework numerous times as a change to improve sPvP as a game mode. I like stronghold as well, liked it from the beginning, but Anet just put the very first iteration into the game and called it a day. It is to be expected that it still has some flaws imo. But back then Stronghold was part of the ranked pvp rotation and everybody requested it to be removed from ranked which I totally understand btw. I was one of them because people had absolutely no idea about the map and just went for kills and ignored the mechanics. Was a complete clown fiesta and still is more often than not. But I guess Anet took this as "People don't want the pvp mode _in general_" which ofc is not true. > Or it might be "novelty" factor im experiencing. If nothing more, it is at least a nice change from Conquest for a while.

> @"snoow.1694" said: > Literally one of the most dodged Guardian skills ever with a long animation before it even starts By that logic Death's Judgement used to be totally balanced as well.

I have a very very very faint hope that End of Dragons will introduce some new pvp modes or at least 1, since back in GW1 it was (also) the Cantha-expansion that brought Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. I loved Fort Aspenwood and I'd love to see it return or maybe something similar. There are actually discord servers specifically for organizing FA matches where for example on saturday evening people will all join at a certain hour and fill queues, so I'm not the only one who loved the mode.

People here acting like 50% of the active pvp community consists of f2p accounts.. Banning f2p accounts from ranked and ATs (or even better imo, only enable ranked/ATs for mobile verified accounts) would probably have little to no impact on queue times whatsoever.

> @"felix.2386" said: > pvp need stuff to make new player stick and grind so they can be better and eventually the skill gap will be reduced. > at this point, wvw has more player and is more fun. Okay since I'm apparently not allowed to comment on anything else in a thread other than the original topic (otherwise my comment gets removed from a friendly Forum Moderator) I'm just add a comment on this. WvW having more players imo is to be expected since it is meant to be large scale. But Anet just removed any group content other than some occasional tournaments. Realistically you can only participate in 1 or max 2 tournaments a day if you have to work. And it's not really worth it to center your entire playtime around those 2 events in my opinion and apparently a lot of people agree since the participation rate is super low. Back in the days we had entire PvP guilds but now.. not so many if any at all. I joined one about 2 years ago for plat2+ only, but it was somehow pretty pointless so I left again (and I had a issue with the leader.. anyway). Without a (separate) full team queue there's no incentive to get others involved with you imo. For WvW you can just bring a bunch of people with you and roam together or maybe even form zergs. In PvP you are forced to be alone or have up to 1 other person. It's frustrating we have to rely on complete strangers and demotes forming communities in the game mode. And no.. by being forced into a team with randoms my experience shows that this does not promote socializing, quite the opposite, it just promotes toxicity and a "I don't care anymore"-attitude. Also it's A LOT more useful for newer players to go and join a guild and do some full team queues. They can learn a lot more and a lot faster. But probably nobody centers a guild around Unranked. So I think the "stuff needed to make new players stick" is a community within the game mode and features they can actually benefit from (aka full team queue).