Captain Kuro.8937
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Posts posted by Captain Kuro.8937
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> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:
> > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect.
> > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes.
> > > > > They asked for more raids.
> > > >
> > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose.
> > >
> > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that.
> > >
> > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true.
> > >
> > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead.
> >
> > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion.
> > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion.
> > .
> > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile
> >
> >
> >
> > Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P
>
> I wish it was 9 months with raids or at least a one time thing. Let's check shall we?
>
> After the first 3 wings, which released 3-4 months apart:
> - Wing 3 released June 14, 2016, wing 4 released February 8, 2017 (**8 months**, raids were still fine given an entire set of new raids was to be relsaed)
> - Wing 4 released February 8, 2017, wing 5 released November 28, 2017 (**9 months**, raids were still but the increase in release schedule has cost players)
> - Wing 5 released November 28, 2017, wing 6 released September 18, 2018 (**9+months**, wing 6 was highly anticipated, the raid scene had already shrunk significantly)
> - Wing 6 September 18, 2018, wing 7 released June 11, 2019 (**9 months**, again highly anticipated. By now a lot of veteran raiders have taken breaks or entirely left GW2)
>
> Wing 7 released June 11, 2019, that's now **20 months ago**. It's amazing there even is a remaining raid scene at all, and that is mostly thanks to dedicated raiders encouraging, mentoring and actively promoting new blood to start raiding while battling the continued loss of more and more veteran players.
>
> Meanwhile Strikes were added where a part of this player-base is not even able to organize or band together to clear "raids light". In a MMORPG which should encourage interaction. While players who enjoy only open world and/or story content get a heart attack because some of the recent episodes were smaller than expected due to the upcoming expansion.
And casual didn't have an easy mode since HoT , just a sporadic 1x Boss with every release
But yeah they didn't need an easy Mode , but gut good + collect KP+ avoid LFG + create their own Group (dificulty level wouldnt hurt them in that...) :)
Can you imagine Fractals , without the 1-3 parts ?
Or if we are going to create instances called "Dungeons" , where the majority of the people would do the fastest parts for the gold and if Aether..hardcore..something instance was going to be released (because surely someone will cry about hard>fun>longevity) , where only 1% of the population would do it ...once ?
(I really wonder why they drop Dungeons for Fractals)
Or what happens if we created Raid encounter to be managed by a few people ...lets say a single Thief , mimicking the Open World Scenarios where few should do the objectives ? Would the community still behave the same and shot themselves in the foot ?
The first 3 raids , where side by side . The company had the stats , and saw something "strange" in the participation and removed also the need to do to atleast 1 Raid boss , that was blocking their lvl up track -blocking them from filling the Bar again and again for Spirit Shard
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> @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:
> > > > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect.
> > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes.
> > > They asked for more raids.
> >
> > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose.
>
> Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that.
>
> Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true.
>
> So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead.
Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion.
I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion.
.
The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile
Edit: Maybe we should find a way to boycott the new solo-dungeons, they might put resources back into Strike. And then repeat, with the Goal of Raids :P
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> @"Ragazm.6018" said:
> This game is a bit controversial, from one side you start with nice "new" way how to do quests (live events/meta events) it's by most part casual but you got satisfaction , after few raids worth of people accomplish some maps meta.
> On other side, you face KP/LI/whatever requirements to do some daily "quest".
> I think best bet is to just ignore that game-mode as whole, also i was very disappointed when ALL my personal story consisted of these "strike missions" .
True !
If you take as an example this reddit post:
, you can clearly see that the 2 opposites parts of the community don't like to be in the same room .They should focus on creating 3x Raids (with the difficult of Wing 5) and an optional F1 skill (last 15 sec , 45 sec cd -something short like training pets) that when enabled "musical chairs" , a sequence of attacks of a Metabuild rotation build (and a small pseudo-timer , to give them the urgency to push as fast as possible the buttons) , for more rewards .
**edit2**:The F1 sequence can be macro-ed to a mouse , for people that have problem with their fingers . Push 1>Push2>etc
Using the the Switch Weapon Mechanic or Utility skill 7(just like the sea Piano) , to progress the rotation .
**edit** : The F1 button can be enchanced/reset for the whole Raid , from a player with 100 KP(ahaaah) , where he wont benefit from Protection+ other defensive Boons +takes 20% more damage - 20% healing , in order the other team members to pick up the slack and use the mechanic (or he might die and will be shamed by the others , for being himself a dead weight)
1500 Raiders x 30 euros , i believe can cover the cost of 3-4 Raids (which regardless of how easy/hard they will be ,most people won't do them).
And a follow up thread saying : "We are sorry we tried" , at the start of next year
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also nope.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Still as clueless as your other account, huh? Sure, if they dodged twice they would take a lot less damage. But then they have no dodges left and any attack you throw at them ensures their demise. While you still know their location. Not good, is it? And that is the meta spec. The point youre missing, thanks to your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything thief-related, is that there is no point to go for any defenses on DE. If your enemy hits you back, you die. Might as well go all in on offense and hope you kill them before they kill you. Thats especially good when +1ing since youre ranged and dont have the need for survivability thief does.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You told me. So please, stick to the *one* time you said something right, and accept that in-combat stealth is underpowered. Learn what the community already knows.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Again , if you dodge the rapid fire , you would evade 70% of the damageand would had lost 2-4k HP . If he is near you use Death's Retreat >then stealth . You don't explode magically is someone touch you in the Back .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Repeating the same lie doesnt make it less of a lie. You only evade *60%*, and only if you dodge twice in a row. You still are screwed. We already explained why Deaths Retreat sucks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He wont know where you are if you are unpredictable . You simply lack some tips , how to become an upredictable Thief in stealth .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Being unpredictable doesnt save you, they can track you through stealth. Dont tell me you didnt realise that since the rapid fire projectiles keep hitting you in stealth, the Rangers know where you are?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now with the question :
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1)Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deadly Arts. Already explained it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2)Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > Give me a name plz and i will go away ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sure, ill give you a name. "Captain Kuro.8937". Now stop using your alt to try and trick people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You make me blush , having me in high regards:)
> > > > >
> > > > > The only thing I regard you as is a troll so sad and desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you could link me the Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization+ Deadly arts Rifle Thief metabuild spec that i am using , would make me feel fuzzy inside .
> > > > >
> > > > > Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all. It didnt even have the P/D or Renegade specs until after they won the MAT.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And when the Rapid Fire ends , and you evade most of the attacks , i wonder if he can track of you and what kind of aoes he will do while both of you originally fought 1200 yards from each other
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You still took 40% of the damage. At that point he doesnt really have to track you, youll drop out of stealth soon enough, and if youre in range, youre without any defenses. Easily killable. Though Barrage would work.
> > > >
> > > > I would tell you the same that you are desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
> > >
> > > Because you force me to. I repeat the same explanation for why you are wrong. You ignore it and continue being wrong.
> > >
> > > > While using circular arguments when you are in the corner defending yourself , thinking that the initial argument will go away and the victim get euxasted .
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thats what you do. I dont use circular arguments at all.
> > >
> > > > When i made a thread where i copied exactly the same metabuild S tier spec , but the only thing i changed was 2x utilities to maximize my damage , you weren't there to tell me : Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all.
> > >
> > > It not being the be-all end-all doesnt mean its never right. Besides, I explained why those utilities were bad. And why noone picks them.
> > >
> > > > But instead , you went full offensive , telling me that high end players have already have found the best-to-spec .
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, I just told you there was a reason noone plays those.
> > >
> > > > After the dodge you will take 3k from Rapid Fire , not get one shot . You have plently of HP left , while Barrage does miniscule damage
> > > >
> > >
> > > After *2* dodges. You also take much more than 3k (At least 4k, possibly 5k). You have some hp left, but no defenses. Then you get crippled, drop out of the 1 second stealth, and since you have no defenses left, get obliterated. Game over.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > >
> > > You said that when I give you a name, you would go away. I already told you who told me. "Captain Kuro.8937". So go ahead, bother him about it.
> >
> > I am too in the same boat :
> > ''Because you force me to. I repeat the same explanation for why you are wrong. You ignore it and continue being wrong.''
> > Thinking that stealth is underpowerd . Themajority in th streams + tournamnets are using it , while having the agenda to say otherwise
> > Who told you that you shouldn't use mid-combat steal ?
> >
>
> Youre not. You get proven wrong. And you repeat the same thing over and over. I prove you wrong. And then have to repeat that over and over. And you told me that. Dont forget.
>
> > You said my 2x utilities where bad , while a Rifle theif having : DeadlyArt+Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization is :
> > ''Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all'' , thats is a fallacy
> >
>
> You dont know what fallacy means. Not surprising. No. Your utilities were bad for a reaosn. DE CS and DA is good for another reason. I have explained both.
>
> > In that video the Ranger did 10k . Now that orpotutinity got nerfed 50>25% he would get closer to 8k . Evading ONCE you will take 3k .
> >
>
> He didnt even use Attack of Opportunity in the video. The damage didnt get nerfed at all. And no, evading once only reduces by 30%. Even if we assume its 8k (its not), thats still about 5k you take. Please learn how to do basic math.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> The community has already spoken. You have been told you were wrong by multiple people here and there, including yourself. *You* have told me that. Every good thief will tell you that. But you know that. You know youre wrong. Remember how you said "Give me a name plz and i will go away ..."? I gave you a name. Now hold up your end of the bargain and go away.
''Youre not. You get proven wrong. And you repeat the same thing over and over. I prove you wrong. And then have to repeat that over and over. And you told me that. Dont forget.''
I am surely that you will do the same baseless arguments (stealth is underpowered) in the future , so its better stretch this conversation over a period of time , rather both going sleepless for a week
Have a nice day:)
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
Can i have the name please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > > > > > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also nope.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > > > > > > > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Still as clueless as your other account, huh? Sure, if they dodged twice they would take a lot less damage. But then they have no dodges left and any attack you throw at them ensures their demise. While you still know their location. Not good, is it? And that is the meta spec. The point youre missing, thanks to your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything thief-related, is that there is no point to go for any defenses on DE. If your enemy hits you back, you die. Might as well go all in on offense and hope you kill them before they kill you. Thats especially good when +1ing since youre ranged and dont have the need for survivability thief does.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You told me. So please, stick to the *one* time you said something right, and accept that in-combat stealth is underpowered. Learn what the community already knows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again , if you dodge the rapid fire , you would evade 70% of the damageand would had lost 2-4k HP . If he is near you use Death's Retreat >then stealth . You don't explode magically is someone touch you in the Back .
> > > > >
> > > > > Repeating the same lie doesnt make it less of a lie. You only evade *60%*, and only if you dodge twice in a row. You still are screwed. We already explained why Deaths Retreat sucks.
> > > > >
> > > > > > He wont know where you are if you are unpredictable . You simply lack some tips , how to become an upredictable Thief in stealth .
> > > > >
> > > > > Being unpredictable doesnt save you, they can track you through stealth. Dont tell me you didnt realise that since the rapid fire projectiles keep hitting you in stealth, the Rangers know where you are?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Now with the question :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1)Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Deadly Arts. Already explained it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth)
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope
> > > > >
> > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2)Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > Give me a name plz and i will go away ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Sure, ill give you a name. "Captain Kuro.8937". Now stop using your alt to try and trick people.
> > > >
> > > > You make me blush , having me in high regards:)
> > >
> > > The only thing I regard you as is a troll so sad and desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
> > >
> > > > If you could link me the Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization+ Deadly arts Rifle Thief metabuild spec that i am using , would make me feel fuzzy inside .
> > >
> > > Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all. It didnt even have the P/D or Renegade specs until after they won the MAT.
> > >
> > > > And when the Rapid Fire ends , and you evade most of the attacks , i wonder if he can track of you and what kind of aoes he will do while both of you originally fought 1200 yards from each other
> > > >
> > >
> > > You still took 40% of the damage. At that point he doesnt really have to track you, youll drop out of stealth soon enough, and if youre in range, youre without any defenses. Easily killable. Though Barrage would work.
> >
> > I would tell you the same that you are desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
>
> Because you force me to. I repeat the same explanation for why you are wrong. You ignore it and continue being wrong.
>
> > While using circular arguments when you are in the corner defending yourself , thinking that the initial argument will go away and the victim get euxasted .
> >
>
> Thats what you do. I dont use circular arguments at all.
>
> > When i made a thread where i copied exactly the same metabuild S tier spec , but the only thing i changed was 2x utilities to maximize my damage , you weren't there to tell me : Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all.
>
> It not being the be-all end-all doesnt mean its never right. Besides, I explained why those utilities were bad. And why noone picks them.
>
> > But instead , you went full offensive , telling me that high end players have already have found the best-to-spec .
> >
>
> No, I just told you there was a reason noone plays those.
>
> > After the dodge you will take 3k from Rapid Fire , not get one shot . You have plently of HP left , while Barrage does miniscule damage
> >
>
> After *2* dodges. You also take much more than 3k (At least 4k, possibly 5k). You have some hp left, but no defenses. Then you get crippled, drop out of the 1 second stealth, and since you have no defenses left, get obliterated. Game over.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> You said that when I give you a name, you would go away. I already told you who told me. "Captain Kuro.8937". So go ahead, bother him about it.
I am too in the same boat :
''Because you force me to. I repeat the same explanation for why you are wrong. You ignore it and continue being wrong.''
Thinking that stealth is underpowerd . Themajority in th streams + tournamnets are using it , while having the agenda to say otherwise
Who told you that you shouldn't use mid-combat steal ?
You said my 2x utilities where bad , while a Rifle theif having : DeadlyArt+Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization is OK because : ''Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all''
... thats is a fallacy
Normally a Thgief would get SA and benefitfrom the 50% movement speed whilestealth , or Trickery and he can use Death's Retreat without running of resources
In that video the Ranger did 10k . Now that orpotutinity got nerfed 50>25% he would get closer to 8k . Evading ONCE you will take 3k .
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > > > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also nope.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > > > > > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Still as clueless as your other account, huh? Sure, if they dodged twice they would take a lot less damage. But then they have no dodges left and any attack you throw at them ensures their demise. While you still know their location. Not good, is it? And that is the meta spec. The point youre missing, thanks to your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything thief-related, is that there is no point to go for any defenses on DE. If your enemy hits you back, you die. Might as well go all in on offense and hope you kill them before they kill you. Thats especially good when +1ing since youre ranged and dont have the need for survivability thief does.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > >
> > > > > You told me. So please, stick to the *one* time you said something right, and accept that in-combat stealth is underpowered. Learn what the community already knows.
> > > >
> > > > Again , if you dodge the rapid fire , you would evade 70% of the damageand would had lost 2-4k HP . If he is near you use Death's Retreat >then stealth . You don't explode magically is someone touch you in the Back .
> > >
> > > Repeating the same lie doesnt make it less of a lie. You only evade *60%*, and only if you dodge twice in a row. You still are screwed. We already explained why Deaths Retreat sucks.
> > >
> > > > He wont know where you are if you are unpredictable . You simply lack some tips , how to become an upredictable Thief in stealth .
> > >
> > > Being unpredictable doesnt save you, they can track you through stealth. Dont tell me you didnt realise that since the rapid fire projectiles keep hitting you in stealth, the Rangers know where you are?
> > >
> > > > Now with the question :
> > > >
> > > > 1)Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > >
> > > Deadly Arts. Already explained it.
> > >
> > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth)
> > >
> > > Nope
> > >
> > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
> > >
> > > Nope
> > >
> > > > 2)Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > Give me a name plz and i will go away ...
> > >
> > > Sure, ill give you a name. "Captain Kuro.8937". Now stop using your alt to try and trick people.
> >
> > You make me blush , having me in high regards:)
>
> The only thing I regard you as is a troll so sad and desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
>
> > If you could link me the Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization+ Deadly arts Rifle Thief metabuild spec that i am using , would make me feel fuzzy inside .
>
> Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all. It didnt even have the P/D or Renegade specs until after they won the MAT.
>
> > And when the Rapid Fire ends , and you evade most of the attacks , i wonder if he can track of you and what kind of aoes he will do while both of you originally fought 1200 yards from each other
> >
>
> You still took 40% of the damage. At that point he doesnt really have to track you, youll drop out of stealth soon enough, and if youre in range, youre without any defenses. Easily killable. Though Barrage would work.
I would tell you the same that you are desperate for attention, you just repeat yourself over and over.
While using circular arguments when you are in the corner defending yourself , thinking that the initial argument will go away and the victim get euxasted .
When i made a thread where i copied exactly the same metabuild S tier spec , but the only thing i changed was 2x utilities to maximize my damage , you weren't there to tell me : Metabattle isnt the be-all end-all.
But instead , you went full offensive , telling me that high end players have already have found the best-to-spec and mine was rubbish
After the dodge you will take 3k from Rapid Fire , not get one shot as you said to the other poster . You have plently of HP left , while Barrage does miniscule damage
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > > > >
> > > > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > > > >
> > > > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Also nope.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > >
> > > > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > > > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Still as clueless as your other account, huh? Sure, if they dodged twice they would take a lot less damage. But then they have no dodges left and any attack you throw at them ensures their demise. While you still know their location. Not good, is it? And that is the meta spec. The point youre missing, thanks to your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything thief-related, is that there is no point to go for any defenses on DE. If your enemy hits you back, you die. Might as well go all in on offense and hope you kill them before they kill you. Thats especially good when +1ing since youre ranged and dont have the need for survivability thief does.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > >
> > > You told me. So please, stick to the *one* time you said something right, and accept that in-combat stealth is underpowered. Learn what the community already knows.
> >
> > Again , if you dodge the rapid fire , you would evade 70% of the damageand would had lost 2-4k HP . If he is near you use Death's Retreat >then stealth . You don't explode magically is someone touch you in the Back .
>
> Repeating the same lie doesnt make it less of a lie. You only evade *60%*, and only if you dodge twice in a row. You still are screwed. We already explained why Deaths Retreat sucks.
>
> > He wont know where you are if you are unpredictable . You simply lack some tips , how to become an upredictable Thief in stealth .
>
> Being unpredictable doesnt save you, they can track you through stealth. Dont tell me you didnt realise that since the rapid fire projectiles keep hitting you in stealth, the Rangers know where you are?
>
> > Now with the question :
> >
> > 1)Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
>
> Deadly Arts. Already explained it.
>
> > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth)
>
> Nope
>
> > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
>
> Nope
>
> > 2)Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > Give me a name plz and i will go away ...
>
> Sure, ill give you a name. "Captain Kuro.8937". Now stop using your alt to try and trick people.
You make me blush , having me in high regards:)
If you could link me the Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization+ Deadly arts Rifle Thief metabuild spec that i am using , would make me feel even more happy .
And when the Rapid Fire ends , and you evade most of the attacks , i wonder if he can track of you and what kind of aoes he will do while both of you originally fought 1200 yards from each other
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > >
> > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > >
> > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > >
> > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > >
> > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > >
> > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > >
> > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > >
> > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > >
> > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > >
> > >
> > > Also nope.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > >
> > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> >
> > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> >
>
> Still as clueless as your other account, huh? Sure, if they dodged twice they would take a lot less damage. But then they have no dodges left and any attack you throw at them ensures their demise. While you still know their location. Not good, is it? And that is the meta spec. The point youre missing, thanks to your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything thief-related, is that there is no point to go for any defenses on DE. If your enemy hits you back, you die. Might as well go all in on offense and hope you kill them before they kill you. Thats especially good when +1ing since youre ranged and dont have the need for survivability thief does.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> You told me. So please, stick to the *one* time you said something right, and accept that in-combat stealth is underpowered. Learn what the community already knows.
Again , if you dodge the rapid fire , you would evade 70% of the damageand would had lost 2-4k HP . If he is near you use Death's Retreat >then stealth . You don't explode magically is someone touch you in the Back .
He wont know where you are if you are unpredictable . You simply lack some tips , how to become an upredictable Thief in stealth .
Now with the question :
1)Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
2)Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
Give me a name plz and i will go away ...
-
> @"darren.1064" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > > > >
> > > > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > > > >
> > > > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> > > >
> > > > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
> > >
> > > Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.> > >
> > > > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > > > Hmmmm ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
> > >
> > > > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > >
> > > Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
> > >
> > > > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> > > >
> > >
> > > Also nope.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > >
> > > You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
> >
> > Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
> > So the argument that can easily one-shot the thief is not true (only if he is afk) and still you can use Sniper cover , if you are afraid .
> >
> > I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
> > So again with the question :
> > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
> > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
> > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
> >
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> Every thief that plays deadeye? It's the norm. Look, we can tell you don't play thief but Jesus Christ.
His argument again is Rapid Fire (ONLY THIS SPELL) counters Rifle Thief . And the usual that stealth is underpowered
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> > > >
> > > > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
> > >
> > > Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
> > >
> > > > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
> > >
> > > Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
> > >
> > > > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
> > >
> > > Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
> > >
> > > > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
> > >
> > > > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> > > >
> > >
> > > As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
> > >
> > > Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
> >
> > So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
>
> Well, except for the fact that it does an absurd amount of damage and can "oneshot" the thief (stretching the meaning of the word here, but I digress). Just take a look at the damage in [this](
) video, which isnt even the max. Good luck surviving that as a thief.>
> > But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
> > Hmmmm ...
> >
>
> Oh my. Looks like I guessed correctly. You *are* a killer alt. No wonder you use the same rhetoric and are equally clueless about the same things.
>
> > Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
>
> Deadly Arts. Mug (which you get to use more because of how mark works), Revealed Training, usually Executioner.
>
> > SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
>
> Nope.
>
> > Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources
> >
>
> Also nope.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> You told me. Remember, you already admitted it. So please stop wasting my time with your alt.
Hmm . In that video people didn't dodge . Its easy to see . And if they dodged , they would get 3-4k damage . Oprotunity got nerfed , so the burst is -25% now .
So the argument that can easily one-shot the thief is not true (only if he is afk) and still you can use Sniper cover , if you are afraid .
I am sorry but we are talking about real meta spec , not silly specs . Whos in their right mind would take Critical Strikes + the Elite +Deadly Arts and no defences . You can link me that metabattle spec ?
So again with the question :
Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > > > >
> > > > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > > > >
> > > > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > > > >
> > > > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > > > >
> > > > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> > > >
> > > > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> > > >
> > >
> > > I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
> > >
> > > > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> > > >
> > >
> > > Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
> > >
> > > > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> > > >
> > >
> > > He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
> > >
> > > > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
> > >
> > > Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
> >
> > If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
>
> Thats so hilariously wrong Im assuming youre joking here.
>
> > If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
>
> Why would they? Again, if you wanna catch out a thief, just use a raw rapid fire.
>
> > And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
>
> Doesnt exactly help the thief who has no real way to stop the damage from killing him, especially if he is entering stealth and has no way to even do anything.
>
> > Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
> >
>
> Its not. But you were able to tell a funny joke.
>
> > IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
> >
>
> As usual your lack of knowledge about thief hurts you. Nope. You use Critical Strikes, not SA. Pretty straightforward concept, lots of extra damage, and unlike regular thief, you can reliably re-obtain fury thanks to M7. So even if it gets boon-ripped, youre not screwed.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
>
> Again, *you* admitted that its underpowered. Dont try to ignore that. As I said, its case closed. You were wrong, its underpowered, simple end of story. Your insistence on continuing to lie doesnt help you here.
So you are gonna avoid the answer that you gave to @AliamRationem.5172 , that Rapid Fire can one-shot thief trying to stealth and you dont have anything to back it up.
Or you can reposition your self using Death's Retreat in stealth , or run away and then stealth .
But instead you resort to circular conversations , in order the original post to be forgoten .
Hmmmm ...
Except of Critical Strikes + the Elite specialization , what third trait they choose ?
SA for minot trait : Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) , or
Trickery 15% increase damage +3 more reources ?
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > > > >
> > > > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > > > >
> > > > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> > > >
> > > > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> > > >
> > >
> > > Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
> > >
> > > > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
> > >
> > > Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
> > >
> > > > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
> > >
> > > Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
> > >
> > > > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
> > >
> > > > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
> > >
> > > So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
> > >
> > > > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
> > >
> > > I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
> > >
> > > > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> > > >
> > >
> > > And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
> > >
> > > > Just ask the community for some tips
> > >
> > > No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
> >
> > If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
> >
>
> I shouldnt be surprised that you have no clue about Rapid Fire either. Rapid Fire channels for 2.5 seconds. A dodge covers 0.75 seconds. Even if you dodge twice, you only avoid 60%, and that leaves you completely defenseless afterwards. 40% will be quite a bit more than 2-3k. Remember, 2-3k is what Prot Holo does with a 1.0 scaling Mortar kit. 40% is 1.1 scaling, and you have multipliers like Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy and what have you.
>
> > Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
> > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
> >
>
> Actually, not all of them do. Trickery is rather redundant on the build since you use M7. You also only restore 1 initiative in the Silent Scope stealth, since youre in it for only 1 second. And no, its still correct, you wasted 6 initiative without building any malice. You will struggle to get the M7 chain going.
>
> > Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
> >
>
> He absolutely can track you in stealth, you absolutely cant avoid AoEs. Advanced thieves dont use deaths retreat in stealth. In fact, "advanced thieves" dont bother with staying in stealth on DE. You enter stealth to immediately fire DJ and drop stealth. Not that it helps much, its 1 second of stealth, it barely lasts at all.
>
> > Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ? It was Misha ?
>
> Im sorry, have you forgotten? You already admitted that in-combat stealth is underpowered. That case was closed with the undeniable fact that it is underpowered being enshrined.
If the rangers have Sic Em, Attack of Opportuntiy (which was nerfed 20 min ago) , they wont do more than 7k-8k in the PvP area .
If they have those 2x multipliers , they will surely have Quickness in their combo , which a single dodge will absorve all hits .
And remember Rapid Fire its 10 sec cd . You cannot be one-shoted , because its easy to see .
Thres goes the arguments that rapid fire can 1-shot 1 thief trying to stealth , is busted:)
IF they dont have trickery for 3 more resources , then they would get SA for Meld with Shadows (Movement Speed Increase: 50% while stealth) . Whelp there is a free mobility skill:)
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that ? Or someone told you ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
> > >
> > > You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
> > >
> > > > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
> > >
> > > Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
> >
> > Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
> >
>
> Silent Scope. You dodge to the left. I know youre on my left. I start cleaving towards that area. The second one of my cleave attacks fails to hit, I switch to the right and hit you with the cleave again. You die.
>
> > Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
>
> Still enough to kill a thief. More than enough.
>
> > Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
>
> Hold on, Ive heard this *exact* nonsense rhetoric before. ... youre an alt of that healer guy, arent you? Anyway, no, it cant be. For that matter, why would the Ranger use Quickness on this Rapid Fire? You use it without Rapid fire.
>
> > Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
> >
>
> No, you wont. You take the full brunt of the damage. Also you think *Rapid Fire* will do "2-3k"? Thats a good joke. I almost thought you were serious.
>
> > Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
>
> So you need to close a decent chunk of distance first. And hope the enemy doesnt notice the animation being played. Yeah thats not gonna work.
>
> > If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
>
> I can see that you used Deaths Retreat when youre stealthed. Im just gonna chuck the AoEs further back. Its easy.
>
> > If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
> >
>
> And leave yourself without initiative to do any real damage. While also still dying to every single thing that kills you because 600 units is not much.
>
> > Just ask the community for some tips
>
> No need, I know the class well, much better than you do. And the community will tell you the same thing. Only you, and other people who dont know anything about thief wont. I already told you, the only time anyone should listen to their advice is if they want to become the worst thief player.
If the enemy don't have quickness , with dodging you will avoid the 70% of the damage . The rest of 30% of the damage will be 2-3k in the pvp areas. So the argument that Rapid Fire Rangers will one shot you...its wrong !
Deadeyes take the Trickery tree for 15% increased damage , your your total resources are 15 . Using Death's Retreat cost 6 and you can restore 2 whilein stealth . So the argument that you run out of resources ...is wrong !
https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Marauder_Rifle
Also the argument that he can track you while in stealth and you cant avoid their aoes , because advanced thieves will use Death's Retreat , in stealth ...is again wrong !
Or they can change direction while in stealth , in an unpredictable pattern , forcing the enemy to loose your tracks for free
Ask the community and don't make your assumptions that in-combat stealth is underpowered , if none have told you that . Or someone told you ?
-
> @"Ryan.9387" said:
> Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.
>
> These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.
>
> We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.
prot holo used Knight amulet ?
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--Q5k9wp4qgk/VZvDUgoOU_I/AAAAAAAAAqU/5gI5g2rb2Wc/s1600/huzzah-poster.jpg
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> > > >
> > > > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
> > >
> > > No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
> >
> > You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
>
> You cant. Anything that stealths you locks you in a direction you move in. You could try afterwards, but yo ustill get tracked by cleave. They will also just throw AoEs at you during or right after you stealthed, and you will be hit by it.
>
> > Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
>
> Theyre not. Use Rapid Fire on a stealthing thief, and watch as he drops dead. Your "suggestion" would make in-combat stealth go from underpowered to unusable. To call it one of the worst ideas ever conceived by anyone on these forums is to be *nice* about it.
Silent Scope can be used if you croutch or not . You stealth on the left and then change direction to the right . You should watch some streams for some tips . Or run backwards , while he is thinking you are going further right .
Rangers burst have been nerfed since February .
Rapid Fire + quickness , can be dodges with a simple dodge , that offer stealth at the end of it .
Without quickness you will take 30% of the damage , which after the nerf + lower stats of the pvp area , it will do 2-3k
Tip: Death's Retreat 4th skill : ''108 damage'' will be done if the enemy is 180 yards near you (130 yards is Warriors Greatsword auto attack)
If you are stealthed , and you are out of his meele swing , use Death's Retreat . You wont get revealed and you reloacate yourself to avoid aoes
If you are close , then use Death's Retreat to get some distance and then use dodge/stealth and then choose to go either left,right , or go backwards
Just ask the community for some tips
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:
> > > > > > > @"zyra.7860" said:
> > > > > > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:
> > > > > > > > You dying is worse than losing node if 1v1. My best advice to you is learn to kite with terrain and use line of sight. What are they gonna do? Perma stealth on node for a decap?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First they bang bang me from 1500 distance. I go chase. They disappear in stealth. Then i hear sound, BOOOOOOM i got hit from 10k Death Judgement. They are again completely different spot than last time. I go chase again, they dodge and disappear in stealth. BOOOOOOOOM, again 10k dmg. I manage stun them and they shadowstep 1200 range away and dodge stealth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just example why class is completely broken and needs emergency nerf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know that it needs an emergency nerf, but this ability to stealth at will combined with insane mobility is simply broken. You can nerf damage down to 1 and make the class completely irrelevant, but the fact is stealth should not work this way and certainly not on a class with the kind of mobility thief has. It needs to go.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you so much as breathe on a DE then they roll over and die. They're not broken nor is the ability for them to stealth. It's quite simply the only thing keeping them alive and if you aren't able to kill a profession that dies in 2 hits then that's a L2P issue right there. There's plentiful counters to a DE and you can even see if there's a DE in the PvP match tab. Use your resources like reflects or your own ranged attacks instead of just complaining. Not to mention any Forced Reveal and a DE is absolutely screwed.
> > > >
> > > > Reading is fundamental. My issue is with stealth, not deadeye. Poorly designed for competitive play.
> > >
> > > Stealth itself is fine, its out of combat stealth (i.e. being blown up by someone you never saw) thats an issue. DE doesnt really do that.
> >
> > I disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact. Strong openers are how stealth should work. In combat the ability to simply disappear whenever you want should be limited and class defenses/skills adjusted accordingly.
>
> No, thats how stealth exactly *shouldnt* work. It removes counterplay. You just get killed by a target you couldnt react to because you never were aware of their presence. Stealth in-combat is weak right now. Because its extremely unsafe and provides very little benefit. Thief doesnt "simply disappear whenever he wants", you still know its approximate location, and you often can hit them for a lot of damage when they attempt to enter stealth. You can track them using channeled skills, or cleave. You can hit them with AoE. In-combat stealth actually has a lot of counterplay (too much, right now, hence why the best way to use stealth in-combat ... is to not use stealth), and its perfectly fine.
You can change direction when you stealth and the opponents is looking for you and wasting aoes on the right side , while you run of the left .
Channeled skills , are too short . Normaly it should behaved like Urgot from LoL , where if you hit him once you marked him (regadles if he stealth ) and the same spell , is no longer needed to be aimed again . Or Chyron from Smite , after he uses any aoe/single target spell
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And that argument is wrong, see above.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > > > > > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You do. Well, if you want to use something as slow as Heartseeker and Dash.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You have not shown anything. Well other than critical lack of knowledge about thief. This just further proves. Here is the difference. 2 Infiltrators Arrows take less than a second. 3 times heartseeker + dash takes *over 4 seconds*. Its so much slower.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You didnt.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In-combat stealth. And its not just valid, I have already *proven* it. Proof by contradiction. So please, refrain from repeating the debunked lie that people use in-combat stealth, yes? Its getting annoying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The. Statement. Was. Retracted. You wont get it. And you are already proving my point as to why. Even after I have proven you wrong, and shown that your assumption that in-combat stealth is good to be worthless garbage, even in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to repeat it. No evidence will sway you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3x Heartseeker+ Dash takes 1,5 sec . In the long run , the cost is halfed than using 2x Iflitrators arrows , covering most distance and allows you to have 6 resources to spent toward attack .Avoiding the situation that you must wait 12 sec to restore resources and then attack the side bases .
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .... I keep getting surprised by how little you know about thief and how big you talk regardless. Heartseeker has a 0.75 cast time. Dash does too. So its 1.5 \* 3. Or 4.5. In the long run you move much, **much** slower. Thats why shortbow is mandatory and your "replacement" doesnt work.
> > > > >
> > > > > > People have used in-mid-side-combat stealth . In high and low elo they do stealth . Who told you that they dont ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sindrener doesnt ever use it. Proof by contradiction. They do not stealth in high elo. Not Sindrener, not Vallun, not any of the other ones. Please, learn to accept that you were proven wrong, and that you have no clue about thief and should never talk about it. And now, please do a favour to everyone here, and stop replying. Youre just embarassing yourself and wasting our time. Just to get it through to you. Do. NOT. Reply. Go waste someones elses time with your lack of thief knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > We are talking that shortbow is not mandatory , now that dash exist . You can use the Heartseeker + Dash combo for an alternate mobility skill .
> > > > Core thief is the one that need the Shortbow . Dont comfuse things .
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are saying that. But thats completely wrong. Shortbow is mandatory. Thats why every single thief uses it. Heartseeker + Dash is much too slow.
> > >
> > > > People in the tournament + Vallun had used combat stealth
> > >
> > > They didnt. This is the same lie you keep repeating over and over, hoping that it makes you less wrong. It doesnt. So please. Stop lying.
> > >
> > > > Sind didnt use the Condition P/D spec and here it won the tournament .
> > >
> > > Irrelevant. If in-combat stealth was good, he would use it. He doesnt use it, so its not good. End of story.
> > >
> > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > >
> > > Im going to assume youre either a troll, or you revel in your ignorance. Either way, I think were done here. Youre wrong, I have proven that youre wrong, and all youre doing is embarassing yourself by making more and more stupid arguments. So begone. Dont waste everyones time.
> >
> > Heartseeker +Dash can outrun any opponent and leave you with resources to counterattack . While 2x Iflitrators arrows cant .
>
> It cant outrun almost any opponent. It cant outrun Holo. It cant outrun Mirage. It cant outrun Warrior. It cant outrun Revenant. Not Guardian, not Ele, not Ranger. It can only outrun Necro, maybe.
>
> > Your initial post , is that the Shortbow is needed for mobility and many thieves would cry if they take it away .
> > I am arguing with you that is an alternate way of mobility .
> >
>
> Shortbow is needed to have the mobility edge that allows thief to be viable. If shortbow was gone and thief only had your alternative, thief would be unplayable.
>
> > I have seen other people stelthing mid-combat just fine . Sind dont stealth because it might eats too many resources
>
> You have only seen bad players stealth mid-combat. You have not seen good players do it. Sind doesnt do it for the same reason all good thieves dont do it. Its bad. Really bad. I will not repeat myself again. Your lies are ineffective. Cease wasting everyones time.
>
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> I have. RETRACTED. That statement. I knew I wasnt going to waste dozens of hours trying to find it. Just for you to ignore it like all the other evidence you have. It would be a waste. You are the worst kind of person. Someone who is wrong, but unwilling to ever admit it. Someone who will spin an ever-increasing web of lies instead of accepting the truth. You are wasting my patience, and everyones time. Go away. *Never* return. Be a clueless fool elsewhere.
I am sorry you cant outrun a centaur . Maybe should i propose to you some Thief guiide , or are you in need of assistance in game ? I would gladly eager to help you .
Shortbow is not need to be removed . You simply have an alternate combo for mobility , that demonstrated to you and free up the second weapon slot for P/P or S/D for example ?
I have see too bad players and pro use mid-combat stealth . I wonder where you have heard that people should not use stealth .
It was Sind ? Tokier ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And that argument is wrong, see above.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > > > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
> > > > >
> > > > > You do. Well, if you want to use something as slow as Heartseeker and Dash.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You have not shown anything. Well other than critical lack of knowledge about thief. This just further proves. Here is the difference. 2 Infiltrators Arrows take less than a second. 3 times heartseeker + dash takes *over 4 seconds*. Its so much slower.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > >
> > > > > You didnt.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
> > > > >
> > > > > In-combat stealth. And its not just valid, I have already *proven* it. Proof by contradiction. So please, refrain from repeating the debunked lie that people use in-combat stealth, yes? Its getting annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > > > >
> > > > > The. Statement. Was. Retracted. You wont get it. And you are already proving my point as to why. Even after I have proven you wrong, and shown that your assumption that in-combat stealth is good to be worthless garbage, even in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to repeat it. No evidence will sway you.
> > > >
> > > > 3x Heartseeker+ Dash takes 1,5 sec . In the long run , the cost is halfed than using 2x Iflitrators arrows , covering most distance and allows you to have 6 resources to spent toward attack .Avoiding the situation that you must wait 12 sec to restore resources and then attack the side bases .
> > > >
> > >
> > > .... I keep getting surprised by how little you know about thief and how big you talk regardless. Heartseeker has a 0.75 cast time. Dash does too. So its 1.5 \* 3. Or 4.5. In the long run you move much, **much** slower. Thats why shortbow is mandatory and your "replacement" doesnt work.
> > >
> > > > People have used in-mid-side-combat stealth . In high and low elo they do stealth . Who told you that they dont ?
> > >
> > > Sindrener doesnt ever use it. Proof by contradiction. They do not stealth in high elo. Not Sindrener, not Vallun, not any of the other ones. Please, learn to accept that you were proven wrong, and that you have no clue about thief and should never talk about it. And now, please do a favour to everyone here, and stop replying. Youre just embarassing yourself and wasting our time. Just to get it through to you. Do. NOT. Reply. Go waste someones elses time with your lack of thief knowledge.
> >
> > We are talking that shortbow is not mandatory , now that dash exist . You can use the Heartseeker + Dash combo for an alternate mobility skill .
> > Core thief is the one that need the Shortbow . Dont comfuse things .
> >
>
> You are saying that. But thats completely wrong. Shortbow is mandatory. Thats why every single thief uses it. Heartseeker + Dash is much too slow.
>
> > People in the tournament + Vallun had used combat stealth
>
> They didnt. This is the same lie you keep repeating over and over, hoping that it makes you less wrong. It doesnt. So please. Stop lying.
>
> > Sind didnt use the Condition P/D spec and here it won the tournament .
>
> Irrelevant. If in-combat stealth was good, he would use it. He doesnt use it, so its not good. End of story.
>
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> Im going to assume youre either a troll, or you revel in your ignorance. Either way, I think were done here. Youre wrong, I have proven that youre wrong, and all youre doing is embarassing yourself by making more and more stupid arguments. So begone. Dont waste everyones time.
Heartseeker +Dash can outrun any opponent and leave you with resources to counterattack . While 2x Iflitrators arrows cant .
Your initial post , is that the Shortbow is needed for mobility and many thieves would cry if they take it away .
I am arguing with you that is an alternate way of mobility and pros are using it
I have seen other people stelthing mid-combat just fine . Sind dont stealth because it might eats too many resources
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
> > > > >
> > > > > Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
> > > > >
> > > > > > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And that argument is wrong, see above.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
> > > >
> > > > You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
> > >
> > > You do. Well, if you want to use something as slow as Heartseeker and Dash.
> > >
> > > > Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
> > > >
> > >
> > > You have not shown anything. Well other than critical lack of knowledge about thief. This just further proves. Here is the difference. 2 Infiltrators Arrows take less than a second. 3 times heartseeker + dash takes *over 4 seconds*. Its so much slower.
> > >
> > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > >
> > > You didnt.
> > >
> > > > Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
> > >
> > > In-combat stealth. And its not just valid, I have already *proven* it. Proof by contradiction. So please, refrain from repeating the debunked lie that people use in-combat stealth, yes? Its getting annoying.
> > >
> > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > >
> > > The. Statement. Was. Retracted. You wont get it. And you are already proving my point as to why. Even after I have proven you wrong, and shown that your assumption that in-combat stealth is good to be worthless garbage, even in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to repeat it. No evidence will sway you.
> >
> > 3x Heartseeker+ Dash takes 1,5 sec . In the long run , the cost is halfed than using 2x Iflitrators arrows , covering most distance and allows you to have 6 resources to spent toward attack .Avoiding the situation that you must wait 12 sec to restore resources and then attack the side bases .
> >
>
> .... I keep getting surprised by how little you know about thief and how big you talk regardless. Heartseeker has a 0.75 cast time. Dash does too. So its 1.5 \* 3. Or 4.5. In the long run you move much, **much** slower. Thats why shortbow is mandatory and your "replacement" doesnt work.
>
> > People have used in-mid-side-combat stealth . In high and low elo they do stealth . Who told you that they dont ?
>
> Sindrener doesnt ever use it. Proof by contradiction. They do not stealth in high elo. Not Sindrener, not Vallun, not any of the other ones. Please, learn to accept that you were proven wrong, and that you have no clue about thief and should never talk about it. And now, please do a favour to everyone here, and stop replying. Youre just embarassing yourself and wasting our time. Just to get it through to you. Do. NOT. Reply. Go waste someones elses time with your lack of thief knowledge.
We are talking that shortbow is not mandatory , now that dash exist . You can use the Heartseeker + Dash combo for an alternate mobility skill .
Core thief is the one that need the Shortbow . Dont comfuse things .
People in the tournament + Vallun had used combat stealth
Sind didnt use the Condition P/D spec and here it won the tournament .
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
> > >
> > > Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
> > >
> > > > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
> > >
> > > Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
> > >
> > > > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> > > >
> > >
> > > And that argument is wrong, see above.
> > >
> > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > >
> > > Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
> > >
> > > Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
> >
> > You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
>
> You do. Well, if you want to use something as slow as Heartseeker and Dash.
>
> > Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
> >
>
> You have not shown anything. Well other than critical lack of knowledge about thief. This just further proves. Here is the difference. 2 Infiltrators Arrows take less than a second. 3 times heartseeker + dash takes *over 4 seconds*. Its so much slower.
>
> > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
>
> You didnt.
>
> > Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
>
> In-combat stealth. And its not just valid, I have already *proven* it. Proof by contradiction. So please, refrain from repeating the debunked lie that people use in-combat stealth, yes? Its getting annoying.
>
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> The. Statement. Was. Retracted. You wont get it. And you are already proving my point as to why. Even after I have proven you wrong, and shown that your assumption that in-combat stealth is good to be worthless garbage, even in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to repeat it. No evidence will sway you.
Heartseeker+ Dash takes 1 sec . In the long run , the cost is halfed than using 2x Iflitrators arrows , covering most distance and allows you to have 6 resources to spent toward attack .Avoiding the situation that you must wait 12 sec to restore resources and then attack the side bases .
People have used in-mid-side-combat stealth . In high and low elo they do stealth . Who told you that they dont ?
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"darren.1064" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
> > >
> > > Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
> > >
> > > > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
> > >
> > > Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
> > >
> > > > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> > > >
> > >
> > > And that argument is wrong, see above.
> > >
> > > > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > >
> > > Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
> > >
> > > Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
> >
> > You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
> > Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
> >
> > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you two are talking about, but he may be alluding to the fact that thieves really dont have any stealth or initiative to waste and so if they put everything on CD just going to a point, then they're completely screwed when they're confronted by somebody and have no: damage, stealth, or initiative (best stealth takes initiative mostly) to get out of said situation. So thieves should actually use stealth as frugal as possible so they are able to do something when the time is right.
>
> Remember: Most initiative isn't used for offensive reasons by thieves, but rather for defensive reasons.
If he uses 2x Inflatrator arrows, he would waste 12 resources , and he cannot no longer attack
If he uses 3x Dash+Heartseeker , he would waste 6 (after some are restored) and have 6 to attack .
We are kinda in an argument if Shortbow , is a MUST on not , now that Dash exist
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
>
> Not enough to keep it up for 15 seconds. Dash rans out after 3 dashes, and you dont regain one for 10 seconds. Heartseeker-wise, you run out of initiative after 7 heartseekers, at 6 seconds. Then you heartseeker once every 3 seconds. So total distance traveled is an average of 900/1.5 seconds for the first 6 seconds, then 2.25\*400 + 0.75 \*450 every 3 seconds, for lets say 9 seconds. Total distance: 3600 + 3712 = 7312. In 16 seconds. Comparision: Holo has a consistent 1.25\*400 + 0.75\*600 every 2 seconds, for a total of 8 times. Thats 7600. Faster, Im afraid. Oh and any more travel time makes the distance worse. Oh and it gets even worse, because Holo has other movement skills and tools they can use, like Radiant Arc. And Quickness which benefits you. The distance widens. And thats just Holo, which isnt exactly high on the mobility list.
>
> > You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
>
> Nope, on no map is that the case. I will also let you in on a little dark secret of sPvP. Its called "inclines". Have you ever tried moving from mid to far on Legacy using dashes, vs using shortbow? Its so much slower. Good luck.
>
> > So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
> >
>
> And that argument is wrong, see above.
>
> > I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> Congratulations, you failed to answer the question. As such, we will now procceed with eliminating the contradiction. Well, Sindrener not using in-combat stealth is easily verified. It is true. So, only one assumption remains. "In-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it". Since its the only one left, it has to be wrong. Ergo, in-combat stealth is bad and high tier thieves (such as Sindrener) do not use it. Proof through contradiction. Q.E.D. Nice, thats finished then. Please do not ever try to say that its good, you have already been proven wrong.
>
> Also you really dont understand what "retract a statement" means, do you? I already said that that statement is wrong, if it pleases you. Its not really important, after all. I can already prove you wrong through the contradiction, and the question you refuse to answer.
You dont need 15 sec to cover 2 bases , you need 6
Your initial argument is that Thiefs needshortbow , which i have shown you they don't . Doing 2 Infritrators arrows ,12 resources , for 1800 range , while 3x Hertsseker+Dash can cover 2700 distance + cost 6resources . (if you arelockedin those animation and restorre resouces)
I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
Your initial argument that people dont use steal , is not valid
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Its *Staff*. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves *600* in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > > > > > > > > > > > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
> > > > > > > > > > And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
> > > > > > > > > > Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo
> > > > >
> > > > > And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.
> > > > >
> > > > > > People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more
> > > > >
> > > > > Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.
> > > >
> > > > Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yards
> > > > Holo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still *walk*. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.
> > >
> > > > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> > >
> > > Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.
> >
> > I calcualated the walk path (just refresh it) 9.000 vs 7000 yards in 15 sec .
> > Still those 2x spell will outclass the Holo Leap , so the theory of that thief is in dire need of the shortbow , is debunked
> >
>
> You forgot to calculate the fact that Dash and Heartseeker have cooldowns. Back to the drawing board with you, do the math properly this time.
>
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
> >
>
> Which part of "that statement was retracted" do you not understand? You still continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. Oh and since this is getting tiresome and repetitive, this is your last chance. If you fail to answer the question this time, I am forced to assume you have no answer. Meaning, as explained, we resolve the contradiction the way we resolve any contradictions, by figuring out which assumption is incorrect. There is only one assumption here, namely "in-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it", so that will be deemed incorrect. You will admit that you were wrong. Got it? Good, then go ahead, answer the question.
When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .
You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to Far
So thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument
I saw people use stealth on the tournaments
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .
> > > > >
> > > > > Its *Staff*. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .
> > > > >
> > > > > Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves *600* in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.
> > > > >
> > > > > > As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow
> > > > >
> > > > > You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > > > > > > > > > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
> > > > > > > > And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
> > > > > > > > Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.
> > > >
> > > > Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo
> > >
> > > And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.
> > >
> > > > And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.
> > >
> > > > People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more
> > >
> > > Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.
> >
> > Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yards
> > Holo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec
> >
>
> Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still *walk*. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.
>
> > Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
>
> Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.
I calcualated the walk path (just refresh it) 9.000 vs 7000 yards in 15 sec .
Still those 2x spell will outclass the Holo Leap , so the theory of that thief is in dire need of the shortbow , is debunked
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
Because in the Tournaments , i saw thieves stealth mid-combat
Why does nobody join for whisper of jormag?
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"Asum.4960" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:
> > > > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:
> > > > > > @"MattDu.7123" said:
> > > > > > Didn't the raid community want strikes as a way to encourage more people to raid, increase the player base so they could could justify needing more content. Seems that by making it a closed loop it will end up having the opposite effect.
> > > > > The raiding community did not ask for Strikes.
> > > > > They asked for more raids.
> > > >
> > > > I'll repeat it because obviously you must of missed it, in your haste to reply. Raids needed a bigger player base and an entry point to help it to grow, so they could could justify needing more content. If you don't have an easy way for new players to join then, your just cutting off your own nose.
> > >
> > > Raids needed a bigger player base because they were neglected for years at a time. In fact most players who raid disliked strikes from the get go, since those resources even in diminished form could have been used in new raids instead. You enjoy story and open world and are disheartened by the latest Icebrood Saga releases? Imagine having NO released content for over a year, regularly. That's what diminished raids. Raids were fine population wise before that.
> > >
> > > Some of us actively argued against this type of content (similar to the constant recurring "easy mode raids" demands), knowing that it would not work because having actually experienced the transition from baseline to challenging GW2 content and in some cases actively training the next generation of raiders gave us enough insight. Lo and behold, that turned out to be true.
> > >
> > > So again, no. Players who enjoy raiding did not "ask" for strikes. We hoped for the continued minimum developer resources be put into raids as in the past. The game got strikes instead.
> >
> > Ereyone got hurt at those 9 months, while they where making the expansion.
> > I don't see raiders in Wow, having the same issue with every expansion.
> > .
> > The simply do other stuff, than Raids in the meanwhile
>
>
> A quick google search tells me that WoW has about 50 Raids, with some single expansions launching with up to 9 Raids.
> GW2, over it's entire life cycle of 8+ years, added 7 Raids, at a pace of a little bit over one a year, after the initial 3.
>
> The Raiding community was hurting since 4 years, not 9 months. Not to any fault of the content or those playing it, but because there simply weren't enough of them to sustain a healthy playerbase.
> Even as highly repeatable as they are, 30 minutes of content every 9 months just isn't enough, neither for people to stick around, nor for people to see it as a healthy content avenue to get invested in, strive towards and join in alongside others (in turn keeping the community fresh and varied).
>
> As for doing other stuff meanwhile?
> The Shattered Observatory CM released in mid 2017, the next piece of Hardcore content came with the Sunqua Peak CM in late 2020. That's well over 3 years wait for another piece of ~15 minute challenging group content.
>
> What else was added over that time to keep these communities of highly proficient players engaged and playing together while waiting for those sporadic Raid releases?
> Any Dungeons? Tough.. or any new Guild Missions to rally around, anything?
> In fact, the only thing Anet did over recent times is taking features, such as proper, unlimited, Templates, essentially out of the game, in favour of a monetization scheme.
>
> I get confirmation bias and all that, if you never liked or played content such as this, to want to believe it just failed, didn't have interest or simply didn't work.
> But let's not bend over backwards just to not have to admit that Anet drastically mismanaged resources, siphoning talent and funding away from GW2 since years to their other (since failed) projects, while scaling GW2 down to nothing but the bare minimum, aka LW, to retain some periodic Gemstore engagement to fund their other products.
>
> With them now scrambling for an Expansion after revenue plummeted massively over the time they focused on LW and most of their new game projects they intended to transition to falling through.
>
> That's what happened to Raids, and just about any other form of content in the game, aside from LW.
When casual where coming to the thread to whine , not for the dificulty/nor for the rewards of the Raids , but for the KP + damage meters , it wasnt the company telling them to suck it up , and do it the proper way .
And now people are trying to wash their hands from the responsibility
"Some" took them casuals as granted , as sheeps :)
Try to create a thread in Reddit , so they will Release "Next Expansion - Raid Enchance"
By playing 10 more dollars , you get 3+2 Raids in a year (for 1500 Raider ... if morepeople buy it ...you get more Raids)