Captain Kuro.8937
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
> > > > >
> > > > > The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
> > > >
> > > > People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
> > >
> > > Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.
> > >
> > > > Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
> > >
> > > What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.
> >
> > Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .
>
> Its *Staff*. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.
>
> > You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .
>
> Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves *600* in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.
>
> > As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow
>
> You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.
>
> > You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait
> >
>
> I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?
>
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > > > > > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
> > > > >
> > > > > You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > >
> > > > You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
> > > > And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
> > > > Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?
> >
> > Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always
>
> Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.
Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo
And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?
People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more
Your backstab did 7k + 2.5 from leach + 3,5k from auto attacks
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > > > >
> > > > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> > > >
> > > > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
> > >
> > > The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
> > >
> > > > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> > > >
> > >
> > > You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
> >
> > People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
>
> Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.
>
> > Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
>
> What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.
You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .
As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow
You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> > > >
> > > > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > > > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
> > >
> > > You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
> >
> > You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
> > And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
> > Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
> >
>
> You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?
Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > >
> > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > >
> > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > We didn't have in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > >
> > > Without sb5 thief still has superior disengage options in dash, shadowsteps and blinding fields combined with stealth, unless a reveal skikk is used of course.
> > > The fact is high sustain classes shouldn't have the disengage potential thief has just as thief shouldn't be able to withstand the pressure or damage the higher sustain class can endure. Yes if a high sustain class gets outnumbered it can't run away like a thief and will more than likely die to the out numbered but it sure as hell will endure the outnumbered and the damage far better than a squishy thief would hense why thieves were given the disengage potential. Yeah if a thief is far more skilled than the other players it can use jukes,evades and blinds to live longer by avoiding dps but the same scenario occurs when a higher sustain class does the same with smart use of all its defensive skills,higher hp/armor etc. I get the idea that it's not far a thief can just disengage but think if it couldn't and kept its rogue like squishyness lol I'd be by far least played class in roster for a good reason
> >
> > You can ask the devst hen , to remove the traits that offer damage reduction in the daredevil and instead replacece them to deal damage . Its pretty easily solution .
> > Rather than getting -30% damage in close combat , make it you can do +30% damage at close instead
> >
> >
>
> But dd already has enough damage traits, as I said it's more the sustain on some classes need lowered than thief needing more damage.
Yeah i agree with that , that bunkers need a hella shave
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > >
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > >
> > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > >
> > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > >
> > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> >
> > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
>
> You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > >
> > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > >
> > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > >
> > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > >
> > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > >
> > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > >
> > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > >
> > >
> > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> >
> > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
>
> The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
>
> > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> >
>
> You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > >
> > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > >
> > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > >
> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > >
> > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > >
> > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > >
> > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> >
> > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> >
>
> Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
>
> > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
>
> I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
Thief had also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > >
> > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > >
> > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > >
> > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> >
> > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
>
> Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
>
> > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
>
> You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
>
> > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> >
>
> Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > >
> > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > >
> > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> >
> > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > We didn't have in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
>
> Without sb5 thief still has superior disengage options in dash, shadowsteps and blinding fields combined with stealth, unless a reveal skikk is used of course.
> The fact is high sustain classes shouldn't have the disengage potential thief has just as thief shouldn't be able to withstand the pressure or damage the higher sustain class can endure. Yes if a high sustain class gets outnumbered it can't run away like a thief and will more than likely die to the out numbered but it sure as hell will endure the outnumbered and the damage far better than a squishy thief would hense why thieves were given the disengage potential. Yeah if a thief is far more skilled than the other players it can use jukes,evades and blinds to live longer by avoiding dps but the same scenario occurs when a higher sustain class does the same with smart use of all its defensive skills,higher hp/armor etc. I get the idea that it's not far a thief can just disengage but think if it couldn't and kept its rogue like squishyness lol I'd be by far least played class in roster for a good reason
You can ask the devst hen , to remove the traits that offer damage reduction in the daredevil and instead replacece them to deal damage . Its pretty easily solution .
Rather than getting -30% damage in close combat , make it you can do +30% damage at close instead
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > >
> > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > >
> > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > >
> > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> >
> > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
>
> Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > >
> > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > >
> > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > >
> > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> >
> > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
>
> Thief is still a burst spec by design as all of its damage is carried through skills based on a burst playstyle, it's just that currently with the current sustain levels its bursts damage numbers aren't significant enough to apply the pressure needed to do its job efficiently. U can see this as dps to low or sustain to high and I think that sustain being to high is the better outlook to have on the situation.
Thieves is not burst by design , thats why P/W + S/D+ stuff/stuff existed . They are not categorized as Burst only , but evade-bruisers or kiters also .
Now if we see the tournaments resulst , they can be Condition Burst too
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > >
> > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > >
> > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > >
> > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> >
> > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
>
> Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
We didn't have Dash in Vanilia
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said : ''do not to use mid combat stealth'' to newer thieves
> > > > Or simply you are simply immagining things , and created false theories on your own all theses years
> > >
> > > Can you not read? I said "Far too much effort for someone who keeps ignoring the evidence that makes his lie patently obvious. Go look back and find it yourself, not like I have it bookmarked (why would I bookmark common knowledge being stated?).". But lets leave off with this, to end this nonsense and preserve my sanity. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that none of the top tier thieves use it? Answer this question, or you implicitely admit that youre wrong, that in truth it isnt great, its bad, and thats why they dont use it. Oh and dont bother trying to talk your way around it. Anything other than an answer too is admittal that youre wrong.
> >
> > So you are using the Sid and Tokier name , to blame them for something that they didnt say from the start:
> > ''new theives should not use stealth in-combat''
> > This false Defamation to their name
>
> Implicit admittal that you are wrong it is. So you finally admit that in-combat stealth is bad and that you were wrong all along. Good, good, nice to see that we are finally on the same page. There is no need to continue this then.
First of all these started , because you have the wrong impression that stealth is not used in any high-low lvl tiers . I simply i am pointing you to watch the Tournaments .
You are doing defamation to Sid and Tokkier name saying that they said : ''dont use ingame stealth'' . I am still waiting for a link to the thread or stream
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said : ''do not to use mid combat stealth'' to newer thieves
> > Or simply you are simply immagining things , and created false theories on your own all theses years
>
> Can you not read? I said "Far too much effort for someone who keeps ignoring the evidence that makes his lie patently obvious. Go look back and find it yourself, not like I have it bookmarked (why would I bookmark common knowledge being stated?).". But lets leave off with this, to end this nonsense and preserve my sanity. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that none of the top tier thieves use it? Answer this question, or you implicitely admit that youre wrong, that in truth it isnt great, its bad, and thats why they dont use it. Oh and dont bother trying to talk your way around it. Anything other than an answer too is admittal that youre wrong.
So you are using the Sid and Tokier name , to blame them for something that they didnt say from the start:
''new theives should not use stealth in-combat''
This is false defamation to their name
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Correct. They didnt do that.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sindrener ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I did. They still didnt do it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh plenty of people have said it. But its old knowledge. Not worth repeating if weve known it for 4+ years, is it? Just like you dont say "dodge the eviscerate". Or "use shadowstep for safe stomping". Almost none have used it in tournaments, and the few that did, didnt get far. And you *still* refuse to answer why Sindrener isnt using in-combat stealth. Maybe youre starting to doubt your lie. Keep thinking about that fact. If its so good, why does he not use it? In fact, Vallun doesnt either. None of the best thieves ever use in-combat stealth. *Why?*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > See the Tournament , i cannot help you to improve if you cant watch it . Theres some interested mechanics that i am trying to learn for my Mesmer .
> > > > > > > > Which people (plenty as you said) told you ''dont use in-game stealth''? In which thread ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How many times do I have to repeat myself. I. DID. WATCH. IT. It does not show what you want it to show. Also, which people have said "dont use in-combat stealth" (not in-game, you use out of combat stealth, just not in-combat stealth)? Well, every single good thief who has ever played the game after 2015. Prior to 2015 we hadnt figured that out yet. That includes Sindrener. That includes Toker. And even every thief that wasnt a top tier thief. Its common knowledge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Watch the video of the Vallun , its here in the PvP section
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The one where he uses in-combat stealth a grand total of *once*, and got lucky that the enemy Ranger was too slow to react because otherwise he wouldve died? That ... just further disproves your point. Not only does he not use in-combat stealth, the one time he did, if he didnt get lucky, it wouldve lead to his death.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First of all re-watch it . You had skipped a lot
> > > > >
> > > > > I skipped nothing. Stop with the lie.
> > > > >
> > > > > > What was the 2015 name that told you , not to use stealth mid-combat ?
> > > > >
> > > > > I already listed 2 names, who just happen to be the 2 best thieves in the world. But you keep ignoring the fact that the top tier thieves never use in-combat stealth. Why? Is that fact perhaps inconvenient to your lie? For the love of god, know when youre beaten. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence clearly proving that in-combat stealth is really bad. There is nothing, not even the single, smallest, *tiniest* thing that backs up your lie. Just accept that youre wrong. Accept the undeniable fact that in-combat stealth is bad, and good thieves dont use it. Dont waste my time, your time, and everyone elses time. Got it?
> > > >
> > > > Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said , not to use mid combat stealth
> > >
> > > Far too much effort for someone who keeps ignoring the evidence that makes his lie patently obvious. Go look back and find it yourself, not like I have it bookmarked (why would I bookmark common knowledge being stated?).
> >
> > Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said : ''do not to use mid combat stealth'' to newer thieves
>
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Correct. They didnt do that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > > > > > > > > > Sindrener ?
> > > > > > > > > > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did. They still didnt do it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh plenty of people have said it. But its old knowledge. Not worth repeating if weve known it for 4+ years, is it? Just like you dont say "dodge the eviscerate". Or "use shadowstep for safe stomping". Almost none have used it in tournaments, and the few that did, didnt get far. And you *still* refuse to answer why Sindrener isnt using in-combat stealth. Maybe youre starting to doubt your lie. Keep thinking about that fact. If its so good, why does he not use it? In fact, Vallun doesnt either. None of the best thieves ever use in-combat stealth. *Why?*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See the Tournament , i cannot help you to improve if you cant watch it . Theres some interested mechanics that i am trying to learn for my Mesmer .
> > > > > > Which people (plenty as you said) told you ''dont use in-game stealth''? In which thread ?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How many times do I have to repeat myself. I. DID. WATCH. IT. It does not show what you want it to show. Also, which people have said "dont use in-combat stealth" (not in-game, you use out of combat stealth, just not in-combat stealth)? Well, every single good thief who has ever played the game after 2015. Prior to 2015 we hadnt figured that out yet. That includes Sindrener. That includes Toker. And even every thief that wasnt a top tier thief. Its common knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Watch the video of the Vallun , its here in the PvP section
> > > > >
> > > > > The one where he uses in-combat stealth a grand total of *once*, and got lucky that the enemy Ranger was too slow to react because otherwise he wouldve died? That ... just further disproves your point. Not only does he not use in-combat stealth, the one time he did, if he didnt get lucky, it wouldve lead to his death.
> > > >
> > > > First of all re-watch it . You had skipped a lot
> > >
> > > I skipped nothing. Stop with the lie.
> > >
> > > > What was the 2015 name that told you , not to use stealth mid-combat ?
> > >
> > > I already listed 2 names, who just happen to be the 2 best thieves in the world. But you keep ignoring the fact that the top tier thieves never use in-combat stealth. Why? Is that fact perhaps inconvenient to your lie? For the love of god, know when youre beaten. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence clearly proving that in-combat stealth is really bad. There is nothing, not even the single, smallest, *tiniest* thing that backs up your lie. Just accept that youre wrong. Accept the undeniable fact that in-combat stealth is bad, and good thieves dont use it. Dont waste my time, your time, and everyone elses time. Got it?
> >
> > Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said , not to use mid combat stealth
>
> Far too much effort for someone who keeps ignoring the evidence that makes his lie patently obvious. Go look back and find it yourself, not like I have it bookmarked (why would I bookmark common knowledge being stated?).
Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said : ''do not to use mid combat stealth'' to newer thieves
Or simply you are simply immagining things , and created false theories on your own all theses years
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
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> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Correct. They didnt do that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > > > > > > > Sindrener ?
> > > > > > > > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
> > > > >
> > > > > I did. They still didnt do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh plenty of people have said it. But its old knowledge. Not worth repeating if weve known it for 4+ years, is it? Just like you dont say "dodge the eviscerate". Or "use shadowstep for safe stomping". Almost none have used it in tournaments, and the few that did, didnt get far. And you *still* refuse to answer why Sindrener isnt using in-combat stealth. Maybe youre starting to doubt your lie. Keep thinking about that fact. If its so good, why does he not use it? In fact, Vallun doesnt either. None of the best thieves ever use in-combat stealth. *Why?*
> > > >
> > > > See the Tournament , i cannot help you to improve if you cant watch it . Theres some interested mechanics that i am trying to learn for my Mesmer .
> > > > Which people (plenty as you said) told you ''dont use in-game stealth''? In which thread ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > How many times do I have to repeat myself. I. DID. WATCH. IT. It does not show what you want it to show. Also, which people have said "dont use in-combat stealth" (not in-game, you use out of combat stealth, just not in-combat stealth)? Well, every single good thief who has ever played the game after 2015. Prior to 2015 we hadnt figured that out yet. That includes Sindrener. That includes Toker. And even every thief that wasnt a top tier thief. Its common knowledge.
> > >
> > > > Watch the video of the Vallun , its here in the PvP section
> > >
> > > The one where he uses in-combat stealth a grand total of *once*, and got lucky that the enemy Ranger was too slow to react because otherwise he wouldve died? That ... just further disproves your point. Not only does he not use in-combat stealth, the one time he did, if he didnt get lucky, it wouldve lead to his death.
> >
> > First of all re-watch it . You had skipped a lot
>
> I skipped nothing. Stop with the lie.
>
> > What was the 2015 name that told you , not to use stealth mid-combat ?
>
> I already listed 2 names, who just happen to be the 2 best thieves in the world. But you keep ignoring the fact that the top tier thieves never use in-combat stealth. Why? Is that fact perhaps inconvenient to your lie? For the love of god, know when youre beaten. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence clearly proving that in-combat stealth is really bad. There is nothing, not even the single, smallest, *tiniest* thing that backs up your lie. Just accept that youre wrong. Accept the undeniable fact that in-combat stealth is bad, and good thieves dont use it. Dont waste my time, your time, and everyone elses time. Got it?
Link me the thread or stream video , where Sid and Tokien said : ''do not to use mid combat stealth'' to newer thieves
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct. They didnt do that.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > > > > > Sindrener ?
> > > > > > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
> > > > >
> > > > > None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
> > >
> > > I did. They still didnt do it.
> > >
> > > > If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
> > >
> > > Oh plenty of people have said it. But its old knowledge. Not worth repeating if weve known it for 4+ years, is it? Just like you dont say "dodge the eviscerate". Or "use shadowstep for safe stomping". Almost none have used it in tournaments, and the few that did, didnt get far. And you *still* refuse to answer why Sindrener isnt using in-combat stealth. Maybe youre starting to doubt your lie. Keep thinking about that fact. If its so good, why does he not use it? In fact, Vallun doesnt either. None of the best thieves ever use in-combat stealth. *Why?*
> >
> > See the Tournament , i cannot help you to improve if you cant watch it . Theres some interested mechanics that i am trying to learn for my Mesmer .
> > Which people (plenty as you said) told you ''dont use in-game stealth''? In which thread ?
> >
>
> How many times do I have to repeat myself. I. DID. WATCH. IT. It does not show what you want it to show. Also, which people have said "dont use in-combat stealth" (not in-game, you use out of combat stealth, just not in-combat stealth)? Well, every single good thief who has ever played the game after 2015. Prior to 2015 we hadnt figured that out yet. That includes Sindrener. That includes Toker. And even every thief that wasnt a top tier thief. Its common knowledge.
>
> > Watch the video of the Vallun , its here in the PvP section
>
> The one where he uses in-combat stealth a grand total of *once*, and got lucky that the enemy Ranger was too slow to react because otherwise he wouldve died? That ... just further disproves your point. Not only does he not use in-combat stealth, the one time he did, if he didnt get lucky, it wouldve lead to his death.
First of all re-watch it . You had skipped a lot
What was the 2015 name that told you , not to use stealth mid-combat ?
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > > > >
> > > > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > > > >
> > > > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > > > >
> > > > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > > > >
> > > > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> > > >
> > > > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
> > >
> > > Correct. They didnt do that.
> > >
> > > > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> > > >
> > >
> > > I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
> > >
> > > > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > > > Sindrener ?
> > > > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
> > >
> > > None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
> > >
> > >
> > > But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
> >
> > I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
>
> I did. They still didnt do it.
>
> > If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
>
> Oh plenty of people have said it. But its old knowledge. Not worth repeating if weve known it for 4+ years, is it? Just like you dont say "dodge the eviscerate". Or "use shadowstep for safe stomping". Almost none have used it in tournaments, and the few that did, didnt get far. And you *still* refuse to answer why Sindrener isnt using in-combat stealth. Maybe youre starting to doubt your lie. Keep thinking about that fact. If its so good, why does he not use it? In fact, Vallun doesnt either. None of the best thieves ever use in-combat stealth. *Why?*
See the Tournament , i cannot help you to improve if you cant watch it . Theres some interested mechanics that i am trying to learn for my Mesmer .
Which people (plenty as you said) told you ''dont use in-game stealth''? In which thread ?
A streamer ? Low lvl players ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > > > >
> > > > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > > > >
> > > > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
> > >
> > > I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
> > >
> > > > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
> > >
> > > Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
> > >
> > > > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
> > >
> > > They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
> >
> > I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
>
> Correct. They didnt do that.
>
> > You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
> >
>
> I did. I saw that you lied. Hence why I called you out on it.
>
> > Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
> > Sindrener ?
> > Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
>
> None of them say it. Because they assume their viewers are good enough to understand themselves why in-combat stealth is bad. However, what they dont say, they show. As I said. Take any Sindrener video. See how often he stealths in-combat during the game. The answer is almost always **0**, rarely 1, *never* regularly. If in-combat stealth is so great, why is it that he never uses it? Oh I know the answer. Its not great. Its awful. And he doesnt use it because its awful.
>
>
> But Im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over, hoping that you accept the truth at any point. So I will leave it off here. Youre free to deny the undeniable truth that in-combat stealth is bad and not used by good thief players. Please, do use in-combat stealth. Your enemies will be very happy. And maybe Ill get lucky and have you as my enemy so I can abuse the fact that youre not good enough to understand why in-combat stealth is so useless.
I am sorry , but you have to watch the stream , even the team with those 2x thieves that went far + mid .
If none said that ''never use stealth mid-combat'' and many have used in the tournaments , maybe ...just maybe you are immagining things and created your own false theory that people should not stealth ?
Just PM me ingame . I might not be Sind , but i can help you as hard i can
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
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> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
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> > > > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
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> > > > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
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> > > > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
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> > > > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
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> > > > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
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> > > > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > > > >
> > > > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > > > >
> > > > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > > > >
> > > > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
> > >
> > > I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
> > >
> > > > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
> > >
> > > They are not. This too is a lie.
> > >
> > > > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
> > >
> > > I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
> >
> > I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
>
> I cant see what isnt there. Unless you call "exiting the fight, getting outside of the enemy range, and then stealthing up" in-combat stealth. Which it is not.
>
> > We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
>
> Something you should take to heart. You should watch good thieves. See how they dont use in-combat stealth. You could learn a lot from that.
>
> > Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
>
> They didnt. What people found is that out of combat stealth is great. But for in-combat, they found that the best tactic is to _**NEVER**_ use it. The ultimate improvement any thief can obtain is to stop using stealth mid-combat like a complete idiot. Hence why, as I said, Sindrener doesnt ever use it. And once again you ignore the Sindrener question. At this point I have to assume that youre either trolling, or so invested in the lie you want to believe that the truth will never get through to you. Doesnt matter. The fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by high tier thieves is undeniable. People can check it themselves by watching Sindrener. Your refusal to accept the truth has no relevance.
I mean , using Black Powder +Heartseeker after they hit the enemy and they are near him and try to escape , it doesnt sound as out of combat .
You should watch the tournament , it will resolve and improve somewhat your skills .
Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
Sindrener ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > > > >
> > > > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> > > >
> > > > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > > > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> > > >
> > >
> > > Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
> > >
> > > > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
> > >
> > > I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
> > >
> > > > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
> > >
> > > It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
> > >
> > > But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
> >
> > I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
>
> I am not. I did watch it. I saw that you simply lied.
>
> > The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
>
> They are not. This too is a lie.
>
> > Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
>
> I did. The number 1 trick about stealth every thief learns is "never use stealth mid-combat". You should learn that too. And I see you avoided the Sindrener Question. Realising you have no answer? Of course you dont. Youre wrong, but clearly unwilling to accept it. But the fact that in-combat stealth is bad and never used by the highest tier players is undeniable and irrefutable. So lets leave it at that. That is fact, you deny that fact, making you no different from someone denying that the earth is round (or rather an ellipsoid).
I am sorry , but you really have to see that Thiefs use the in-combat stealth in those Tournaments .
We are started as noobs , but we got better with watching others
Give it a try .Other people found a way to use stealth as a tactic , dont be afraid to improve yourself
Btw : which streamer said ''never use stealth mid-combat'' ?
Sindrener ?
Is he the one currupting the youth , with his sexy body ?
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > > > >
> > > > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> > > >
> > > > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
> > >
> > > Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
> > >
> > > > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > > > Or meet me ingame
> > > >
> > >
> > > So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
> > >
> > > > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
> > >
> > > That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
> >
> > 450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
> > If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
> >
>
> Shortbow is 900 units, not 600. It also is much faster than Dash. There is indeed no contest on which to choose, the answer is Shortbow 5, *always*.
>
> > The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
>
> I did watch it. They didnt. They never used in-combat stealth to survive, because if would achieve the exact opposite. It would ensure their death.
>
> > Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
>
> It is ok if I dont know somethings. This is not one of them. I know it. You clearly do not, yet try to talk as if you have the faintest clue. People do not use in-combat stealth in high tiers (they do use out of combat stealth). Full stop. This is undeniable fact. You can deny this if you want, but know that it doesnt make the truth less true. It just makes you no different from a flat earther. So if you deny it once more despite the fact that its true, I will assume you indeed are one, and disregard you. It is underpowered, hence why its not used.
>
> But in the vain hope that this will finally get through to you, answer me this. If in-combat stealth is so great. If its supposedly used in higher tiers. How comes Sindrener, the best thief in the game (not that there is much competition nowadays) _**NEVER**_ uses it. Unless you can answer that question you need to accept that the premise, and your belief that stealth is good, is wrong. Oh and to save you the trouble, you cant answer it. The premise and your belief are just wrong.
I am sorry again , but you are wrong . You should give it a chance and see the Tournament .
People are actually using in combat stealth with the D/P combo to survive .
The majority of the classes and in the Meta are Bunkers , they don't have the firepower to 1-shot you in stealth .
Heh .. even you had said that in lower tier people don't know how to counter it . Give it a try , just watch the tournament or some youtube video about tricks of stealth
Everyone started as a noob . We improved over time
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > > > >
> > > > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
> > >
> > > The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
> > >
> > > > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
> > >
> > > Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
> > >
> > > > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
> > >
> > > Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
> >
> > First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
>
> Dash alone wont get you far. You need shortbow.
>
> > And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-game .
> > Or meet me ingame
> >
>
> So youre gonna make me repeat myself. In the combat, they didnt use stealth mid-combat. Full stop. They did not use it. Well, other than the exact one exception I have already listed and wont repeat. I dont need "ideas to stealth mid-combat", because unlike you, I know that its bad, and that good thieves dont use it. Well, not that I need it, I dont play thief.
>
> > If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premish that people avoiding stealth , its no true :)
>
> That is a lie. In higher tiers people _**NEVER**_ stealth mid-combat. Let me repeat myself so that it gets through to you finally. They. *Never*. Stealth. Mid. Combat. Again, just take a look at Sindrener. If you watch his videos and keep track, you will find that in the vast majority of games he plays, he stealths mid-combat exactly _**0**_ times. Thats right, not at all. In *rare* games he stealths once. Maybe twice. In _**NO**_ game whatsoever does he stealth mid-combat regularly. So, the premise that people avoid stealth is absolutely true, despite your insistence to disgregard the truth.
450 yards , 0 cost , vs 600 yards half resources , well there is no contest on which to choose
If you add them up , well you have more mobility that Vanilia i believe .
The thieves used ingame combat to survive , you should watch the Tournaments , rather than go in circles .
Its ok , if you don't know some things , you don't to insist something that is not true . People are using stealth in high and low tiers . Its not underpowered beyond redemption as you are saying . You haven't simply don't know some high level tricks
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously. Why do people fixate on stealth? Outside of *exactly* bursting through out of combat stealth, stealth is bad. Really bad. There is a reason thief for most of GW2s lifespan didnt use stealth in-combat, and most builds just dropped stealth entirely.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i not sure about that .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the metabattle people are using the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace , for the extra survibility that trait offer .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If stealth was so useless , they should have taken Hidden Thief (stealth on Steal , so you dont have to waste 9 resources casting Black Powder + Heartseeker + 20% reduction cd on Shadowstep+Blinding Powder and generaly any Deception spells)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It gives your healing skill an extra condi cleanse. Thats why its being run. Well, that and the fact that hidden thief is pretty redundant. You engage out of stealth anyway, and mid-combat youre not gonna get much use out of stealth.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority are taking Channeled Vigor , so they dont benefit from the extra condtion cleance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I beleive its is that people are using stealth (heartseeker +Powder) and that trait , otherwise they should had taken Hiden Thief , that does way more things to the mobility + cost resources
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. Concealing Restoration. Whenever you use a healing skill, you gain stealth. So your healing skill gets a condi cleanse (Shadows Embrace triggers once instantly). People are not going for stealth mid-combat (that would be suicidal). Hidden Thief does close to nothing, so a single condi cleanse is better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are going to use only for the 20 sec heal , it will remove only 1 condition . Its better to take Stealth on Steal + 20% reduction of Deception .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure about stealth being suicidal . I saw Thieves even the from the 55 rank to use stealth and avoid the enemies .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even on Vallun video a while back
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not. The stealth on steal conflicts with mug (if youre already stealthed up and use steal, you get revealed) and is generally not useful at all. The cooldown reduction on Deceptions is alright, but not impactful enough. Being able to remove a burn in a clutch situation is just better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It behaves like Cloack And Dagger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cloak and Dagger when youre already stealthed you also get revealed.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mug its on Deadly spec .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are talking about meta builds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is just redundant. Why would you want stealth on steal? You steal backstab when engaging. Youre not gonna steal for stealth mid-combat, and out of combat you have stealth anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cannot remove a clutch Burn , because they are overbearing conditions. So 1x condtion removal is worthless .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardly. Shadows Embrace is nice in that it only removes *damaging* conditions. So if they have burn cripple and so on, you remove the burn. Even 1 condi cleanse is quite valuable, especially on a class that generally lacks them.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that Thief actually use stealth to benefit from it much more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. If you try to stealth mid-combat, you just get hit for a ton more damage than you would remove from the 1 condi cleanse. Youre also not gonna be able to just stay in stealth and wait for another tick, you die before that. Its legitimately just for the healing skill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than wasting 9 resources on Heartseeker + Powder and then steal , you can instead simply Steal without a cost and gain stealth , also reduce the Shadowsteap from 50>40 sec and Blinding Powder 40>32 sec
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going to "waste" those 9 resources anyway, because you want to stack up Leeching Venoms, and you want to engage on them without them ever knowing you were there. Oh and since you use steal on the opening burst, that also means you wont be able to use it later. Reducing the CD of Shadowstep is nice, but not significant enough. You dont use Blinding Powder right now anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burns can be re-applied , so remove one is kinda worthless . If Thieves stealth more (which i believe they do) they benefit from it much more . The stealth from the healing spell lasts 2 sec (1s from PvP + Melds) , you will only benefit from 1 condtion removal from the start and not a second
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can be, but its still great. They stack the burst on you, and you negate it. And then you run away, so they cant just keep reapplying it. Thats why its great. Thieves do _**NOT**_ stealth more. Because its actively suicidal and just about the only way a thief can get himself killed. It also doesnt benefit more at all. Youre not gonna survive waiting 3 seconds for the second condi removal. And yes, you only get the 1 condi removal at the start. Thats how the trait works.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you are going to waste 9 resources and stealth for 3 sec , or waste those 9 resources and use Hidden Thief for 6 sec stealth . Reggardles of what stealth method you choose the Leeching Venoms poison will still come up .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And in that case, you burn the steal before you can use it to engage. A complete waste. Both of a trait, and of steal. A terrible idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you use the 20 sec heal that the trait does offer stealth in combat , is a defensive option that most thieves do . Its not suicidal , its called ''tactical get the hell away'' . And still Shadow Embrace is kinda worthless for a 2 sec stealth only . Maybe the majority of the stealth + streamers have a different tactics and use itmore than us ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth in combat is not a defensive option. Its suicidal. Here is what happens. You plop down a smoke field, try to heartseeker and whoops, your opponent decided to abuse the fact that youre stuck in 1.25 seconds worth of animation, threw some damage youre way, and youre suddenly downed. Why, that doesnt seem useful at all. Thats why you dont do it. Its why top tier streamers dont use it. And no, shadows embrace is still good for Concealing Restoration. Youre right, its not terribly much, but the alternatives are both *worse*. Merciful Ambush doesnt come into play often enough, and Hidden Thief is just not useful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather than having 1 condition removal every 20 sec (on heal>stealth) . Its better to have :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know why you think repeating the same wrong thing maakes it true. No, Hidden Thief is *much* worse. End of story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the other hand if poeple use stealth a lot more , like Vallun it makes sense that they benefit from it more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > He doesnt. Look at Vallun. Look at Sindrener. See how often they use in-combat stealth. Unless its to finish off a target (usually when theyre 3 or 4v1) the answer is *never*. And in that situation, shadows embrace isnt doing anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Concealing Restoration is more suicidal , because you must wait before the channel ends and then you stealth .
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Completely, utterly 100% wrong. When you use channeled vigor, you regain health. You still might take damage, but youre not even locked in an animation, you can move. Its 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times less suicidal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > While doing Black Powder offer some Blind and the Heartseeker some mobility (just like Dash)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get the blind unless you target an enemy then drop targetting, which is clunky. And the mobility doesnt help you because your opponent knows exactly where you will move. Neither of those will save you from the grenade barrage Im aiming at you that will down you instantly. Which is why _**EVERY**_ good thief avoids in-combat stealth. Please, for future reference, dont talk about thief if you dont know thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No i am sorry , but you are kinda wrong here .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I am absolutely correct. You are the one who is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If the majority of the streamers + metabattle have that traits ,it mean that they stealth more and benefit from that trait . Otherwise they would take that Hidden Thief .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. Hidden Thief is worse. Even if you just use concealing restoration (Which yes, is what they do), it is so much worse. But if you dont believe me, just go ahead and watch Sindrener. He is using Shadows Embrace. See how often he goes for in-combat stealth (Or let me spoil you: Almost never).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > They know more than you and me .You could look at the Vallun Video , where he stealth and use Dash to get away from danger . If you some problems with stealthing up , we can meet inside and give you some tips
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They do. Thats why they _**DONT**_ stealth mid-combat. They know its suicidal and the worst thing a thief can do by far. Watch [this](
) most recent games on sinds youtube channel. Pop Quiz: During the entire 15 minute match, how many times does he stealth mid combat? The answer is *once*. Against a prot holo that cant punish him. Didnt clear any condis doing it though. And still he runs shadows embrace. Why? Because its much better than hidden thief, even if you just use concealing restoration like the good thieves do. Why? Well I already explained.> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I saw multiply thieves from the tournament and Vallun use stealth .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Out of combat stealth. Yes. In-combat stealth? No. Well, other than maybe the condi thieves using Shadow Refuge to immediately leave stealth and just proc shadow bolts on the stealth attack. That appears to be how it was used.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And Sind uses the Embrace trait vs heavy condition opponents , while the enemy waste aoes , he hides and uses the trait to cleanse conditions
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, he uses them against *all* opponents. He does not do what you describe _**EVER**_. Because that doesnt work. You do not stealth mid-combat (unless its to finish off an outnumbered enemy, maybe, and *maybe* if youre facing a low-damage bunker and wanna prepare to switch targets to someone a bit further way. But even in that case, it makes more sense to get out first, then stealth). If you stealth mid-combat, you die unless your opponent is playing a low-damage bunker. And even then you sometimes die. Thats why you dont use it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am hopping to see a Grenade Barrage Enginner on the Tournaments on July . Maybe we can see that spec to be used vs stealth Mesmer also
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why? Grenade Engineer isnt particularly good. Its just an example because I play it. Any class can punish thief for trying to stealth mid-combat. Thats why every single good thief doesnt use mid-combat stealth. And yet they use Shadows Embrace, because its still much better. It is that simple. Accept the fact, or be quiet.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ehm ...other specs too exept the 2x French . The majority of the enemies are Bunkers and while you having the damage reduction from the Daredevil traits , they cannot huke you high enought
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And they too didnt use it, other than *exactly* with shadow Refuge and dropping it *exactly* instantly just to get the stealth attack with the shadow projectile finishers. The damage reduction traits wont be active when you try to stealth up (you move out of range and the enemy wont be weak). Right now even bunkers can do a lot of damage, and far from everyone is playing bunkers. You will get nuked.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought for a sec that Grenade Engineer , was death incarnate with all these '''if you stealth , you will get nuked by it'' .
> > > > > > > > In lower levels everything works and everything punish each other
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The point is that *even* Grenade Engineer can nuke you when you try to stealth. Any build can. Its funny that you bring up lower levels, because its _**ONLY**_ in lower levels that thieves use stealth mid-combat. Because they arent good, and their opponents arent good. In high level, you will almost never see a thief use stealth mid-combat. If they want to run, they shortbow 5. If they want to fight, they use shadow shot, heartseekr or swap to shortbow. But never, ever, under any circumstances, do they go for stealth. And still Shadows Embrace is run. Because its better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There where other teams that they used D/P and use it to stealth . For example there was a team with 2 Thieves that made it to the top 8 and lost from the 1 French , that their job was to go far and take turns attacking/stealthing up to win matches vs Mesmers + other other Bunkers .
> > > > >
> > > > > They use *out of combat* stealth. Yes, that is true. However, there Shadows Embrace doesnt matter. Youre out of combat. You didnt have any conditions. They did not use in-combat stealth at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > > At the final 6 , Cheese vs 55rank i believe you could see some stealth ingame action too . If you are near the target >hit> try to stealth up the damage reduction traits will be working fine
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Out of combat stealth, yes. In combat stealth, no. And no, they wont, your heartseeker will move you too far away. Sorry.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I hope we can see the Grenade Enginner in the tournament , its sound preety fun for 1-shot aoes burst
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesnt oneshot anything but the squishy thieves that already took damage from sticking in a fight. Again, you fixate on the wrong things. But let me just reiterate once more. Good thieves do not use in-combat stealth. If they are activaly fighting an enemy, under (almost) no circumstances will they ever stealth, because its suicidal. They will ONLY stealth out of combat. As a result, Shadows Embrace is ONLY used for concealing restoration, a single condi clear on your healing skill. And its still used over hidden thief, because its much better than hidden thief, even then.
> > > >
> > > > Those 2 D/P thiefs took turns . If some1 was low on hp he would stealth up in combta , heal and then come back . The same tactic they used in mid in teamfights .
> > >
> > > Im gonna assume that he did not stealth up in combat, but out of combat. A quick look over the game I assume youre describing confirms that assumption. They used out of combat stealth, not in-combat stealth.
> > >
> > > > Heartseeker is not effected by out of combat stealth or in combat stealth .It travels the same distance , just like Dash . Its ok if you have some questions about how things works
> > > >
> > >
> > > I know, youre missing the point. The point is that when you use in-combat stealth, youre locked into your animation. Your heartseeker will take you a set distance away in a set direction. The enemy will punish and down you. Hence why good thieves do not ever use in-combat stealth. Did you finally understand that? Yes? Good. Lets leave the fact that thief doesnt use in-combat stealth as that, as well as the fact that shadows embrace is used only for concealing restoration and is still better than hidden thief.
> > >
> > > > Could you post some pic with the burst of Barrage ? So i wont underestimate it on my que ?
> > >
> > > Too much effort, cant be bothered.
> >
> > I am sure 100% that that team with the those 2x Thieves that made it to the final 8 , they used Heartseeker+ Powder for stealth , when they where 50% hp . While the other maintain the pressure . Or like other thieves from other teams .
>
> The only one I saw did not use it in-combat. When they wanted to get out, they did like any good thief does, and shortbow 5 out. If they tried to BP + Heartseeker for stealth when they were at 50%, they wouldve just died.
>
> > Not all classes punish you while you do the stealth combo , and the 90% of the majority are Bunkers . In lower tiers where everyone is wearing Berseker amulets , they might punish the thief for trying to stealth up . But the current meta is Bunker-Condition
>
> Incorrect. All classes punish you when doing the stealth combo. Most arent bunkers. Condi isnt meta (hence why condi thief was such an upset). In lower tiers, people use stealth, because the thieves are bad and dont know its bad, and the enemies are bad and dont punish it. In high level, they do not ever use stealth mid-combat.
>
> > Hence they stealth up and use the Shadow Embrace trait
>
> Incorrect. They do not stealth up, and shadows embrace is used exclusively for concealing restoration. As I have explained, both of these are undeniable facts. You can look at all of Sindreners games, you will see he does not ever stealth up mid-combat. For this exact same reason. And he still uses Shadows Embrace. Because its still better than hidden thief. Is the fact that these are undeniable facts finally clear to you? Because I would like to not have to repeat myself just because you want to believe that thieves use in-combat stealth, despite it being undeniable fact that they do not.
First of all thieves have Dash also , which is free if they are going to escape .
And secondary you should watch the Tournament stream , you might take some ideas about the tricks on stealthing in-combat .
Or meet me ingame
If in lower levels , the people dont know how to punish a person stealthing , while in higher tiers people using D/P combo to stealth in combat . So the premise that people avoiding stealth , holds no true :)
The Death of Thief
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They *do* have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .
> > > > > > > > > > > > We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by *Holosmith*, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a *much* worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The point is that until recently, the meta build *was* core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P
> > > > >
> > > > > Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn
> > > > >
> > > > > What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > >
> > > > Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .
> > >
> > > Its *Staff*. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.
> > >
> > > > You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .
> > >
> > > Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves *600* in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.
> > >
> > > > As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow
> > >
> > > You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.
> > >
> > > > You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait
> > > >
> > >
> > > I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?
> > >
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W> @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just l2p!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh I dunno, **we** certainly get instakilled. Why only us?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **You** certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you **don't** play thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .
> > > > > > > > Or re-stealth and do that again or run away
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.
> > > > > > And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?
> > > > > > Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?
> > > >
> > > > Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always
> > >
> > > Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.
> >
> > Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo
>
> And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.
>
> > And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?
> >
>
> Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.
>
> > People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more
>
> Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.
Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 15 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yards
Holo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.600 yards in 15 sec + 480 on foot x 7 = 3360
Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?