Zola.6197

For my two cents on S2, I think it's fine. It expands on the world and the lore, and it develops Caithe in an interesting way imo. GW2 has always been pretty experimental in how they tell stories and deliver content, so it might not match other mmos but I think it has entertainment value. I don't remember the story being "bad" or frustrating. It sets up HoTs pretty well and is longer than other seasons. It really is dependent on how invested you are in GW as a franchise and what you personally find appealing. But as someone who can be critical of the writing/implementation of the story in this game, I didn't have any personal issues with S2 as opposed to the qualms I have about story beats in S3, S4, and Icebrood Saga.

There's also a movie of Season 1 cobbled together by fans/youtubers: Not perfect, but it will fill in a lot of gaps if you wanna commit 3 hours to watching!

> @"deatine.2498" said: > Rytlock is also the reason why we had to chase after a rouge god of war (he freed Balthazar), and somehow the damage he cause with that is never addressed. In his defense, he didn’t know it was Balthazar. To him, it was a random old man chained up and abandoned in the mists (who reignited Sohothin’s flame for him to boot). I suppose he could still be blamed for unwittingly freeing Balthazar, but Rytlock didn’t know who the old man was till seeing him again in PoF.

I never had a strong connection to the DE characters. A lot of the personal story had writing (and by extension characters) that felt very flat to me, and the dungeon storyline was not implemented well as players could easily skip or miss them without it really affecting the personal story, as the dungeons weren’t tied to its progression. It wasn’t until years after I complete the personal story that I went through each dungeon story in chronological order and got the full picture (and even then it’s fragmented at best). I think time more than anything made me more fond of them. I liked Zojja, and post-core stories made Caithe into a much more compelling character. Rytlock was fine but I didn’t enjoy the overly aggressive personality. I’ve come to like him more through post-core content too, especially Icebrood Saga (S5). For me there wasn’t much to hate about Logan and Eir (but not much to like either). But as a game I’d devoted a considerable amount of time to, I want the characters to receive their due diligence. There’s a S4 plot line I wished DE had been honored in/part of, but alas... A couple DE characters have been mostly retired off screen in satisfying ways and do return in smaller roles, while others not so much. EDIT: I still think the personal story has value as it does a lot of world building for the rest of the franchise. It could really use some updating to bring it into the 2020s though. EDIT2: Eir also became more interesting after the fact due to her relationship (or lack there of) with Braham.

> @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > I think this is less ANet and more NCsoft tightening their leash. There were no plans for an expansion until, suddenly, there was (and I could be wrong, but I think their lead left around the same time). There’s been a lot of turn over it seems, plus a lot of senior staff having left over the years. And now they’re “all hands on deck” for EoDs, leading me to believe it’s a *very* small team working on champions (and they’re probably multitasking). So this all seems to be a product of understaffing and bad mismanagement. I think they’re being told “you have to deliver a big expansion in x amount of time, or else.” That’s the only way I can rationalize the sudden story acceleration. > > > > And I don’t think Champions is that bad. I like a lot of the ideas and concepts, but there’s definitely quality control issues. > > > > Edit: and I wish they were more communicative with their players, or clearer about what the release schedule of champions, cause a lot of people think this is all we’re getting for chapter 1. > > anet clearly had focus on LW only, a system that didnt satisfy the majority of players. we simply expect xpacs to be delivered at regular intervals. > look how much leeway ncsoft gave wildstar, they could had shut it down years before it actually happened. > i am playing another ncsoft title, champions online, and they have been hanging on the brink for years now. > this all reeks of bad leadership in anet. a position , that isnt even filled yet. > just remember the disaster, that was LW1. they actually PLANNED that. The team that worked on S1 and Icebrood Saga are totally different, though. They’re basically a different studio now. The Saga started off very strong and it’s fairly obvious it was meant to be much longer at this point, but has been panned in favor of the expansion. Which is why we’re seeing the current uproar regarding Champions, because they’re massively cutting corners to push out EoDs. I mourn the potential Icebrood Saga had. It could’ve easily been 12+ episodes with multiple maps dedicated to exploring lore for multiple races and building up Primordus as the climax. I think Novera King (narrative lead that left in October) had done a great job and gave us some of the most compelling character development/storytelling in years.

I think this is less ANet and more NCsoft tightening their leash. There were no plans for an expansion until, suddenly, there was (and I could be wrong, but I think their lead left around the same time). There’s been a lot of turn over it seems, plus a lot of senior staff having left over the years. And now they’re “all hands on deck” for EoDs, leading me to believe it’s a *very* small team working on champions (and they’re probably multitasking). So this all seems to be a product of understaffing and bad mismanagement. I think they’re being told “you have to deliver a big expansion in x amount of time, or else.” That’s the only way I can rationalize the sudden story acceleration. And I don’t think Champions is that bad. I like a lot of the ideas and concepts, but there’s definitely quality control issues. Edit: and I wish they were more communicative with their players, or clearer about what the release schedule of champions, cause a lot of people think this is all we’re getting for chapter 1.

That would be a lovely addition to DRMs. I know Drizzelwood included some content from the Charr personal story (your sparring partner greeting you) and then diaries of the potential Charr warband mates you can rebuild your warband with. This would lead me to believe it's not impossible to see more PS figures in DRMs, or the general future, but I'm sure they'll only pop up in *small* ways. I've been posting throughout the years that I'd love to see Deborah make an appearance again, or even just a letter in the mail... Makes me wonder if she's been kidnapped by centaurs again (which would've been funny if she'd been included in the speculated/"cut" centaur content hinted at in the IBS trailer). I've heard the coding from the core game called "spaghetti coding" over the years, though I've no idea if its true. But it seems hard in essence to account for the wide array of branching paths in the PS, and connecting that older code to the modern game might not be the simplest task. I think that's why ANet has mostly relegated PS content and characters to the past. Unfortunate, as many in these forums will say. I thought if they ever did a companion or heroes system, mining personal story characters might be a good way to have selectable companions that are meaningful without connecting much to the golden path of the story. Would never happen though.

I was fine with the character, but I really found the voice acting awful. He sounds like an Oblivion NPC. So flat and disconnected. It didn't read like a deliberate character choice to me, just an actor that wasn't very good. Otherwise I didn't really have an issue with him. Echoing the sentiments of a few people here, characters like Trahearne are necessary to give MMO stories some consistency and cohesion, though they could've better employed Trahearne as a figure in the other racial origins so he doesn't feel like a random addition to non-sylvari. I never understood the Kormir hate, but again I don't have issue with NPCs having important roles in the plot. Some people just lose it when they're not endlessly catered to.

They are quite obviously making Braham the Avatar, AKA bridge between the spirits and mortals. :p Based on his storyline in IBS about forging deeper connection and favor with the spirits of the Wild, it would be odd if Braham suddenly betrayed his redemption/growth arc and became a corrupted champion of Primordus (who doesn’t having any clear interest in mortals so far). Uber-shaman is the trajectory of the narrative they’ve given him this season. Edit: I could see Braham being killed by Jormag to fulfill the prophecy, only to be reborn as some sort of spiritual mouthpiece to the Spirits of the Wild/Norn Jesus figure.

> @"radda.8920" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > > The writing was great > > it's so funny, you're a hell of a joker Thanks, I’ll be here always.

> @"Dondarrion.2748" said: > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > What do I think? It's all a bit boring, just those 3 near identical missions. I won't be contributing much to advance the progress bar. Here's hoping the next few weeks will be adding some more interesting and substantial stuff. > > But this was it though, wasn't it? Next up now will be Wintersday in December and next part of Champions isn't coming until January? It has been stated by the devs they will add more content between the ‘chapters’ of Champions. So we should get more additions and updates to this story content between now and Chapter 2 in January. It probably won’t be anything MAJOR, but they’re doing a steady/staggered release of content for Champions.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said: > > Norn got ignored in their own story. :( > > They took everything that could have been a Norn expansion and shoehorned Charr into it because people wanted a Charr focused story. > > Like hell, people are asking about Charr focused story/ expansion, travelling to Charr homelands, knowing more about Charr origins, but what we get is Charr in Norn Disneyland messing things up left and right because they pointed at Commander and Aurene and be like "I want that" I liked pulling on the stories of multiple races, but it’s clear IBS was meant to be longer. Likely that meant we would’ve gotten a slower burn with multiple episodes focusing on the norn (and Charr) versus the brief foray we got. I am pretty sad about it.

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said: > Kinda beyond caring if Braham gets corrupted at this point. He's still too angsty and maybe becoming a destroyer will actually make him less annoying. He hasn’t been angsty for a while now. He’s trying to atone for his past behavior and redeem his failure in the eyes of the Norn.

They are going to release more content as the weeks go by, similar to season 1 (which I might add a lot of people have been looking to that content format with rose colored glasses the last few years). So this first “chapter” isn’t complete. They are staggering content over time. How satisfying that content will be is anyone’s guess at this point. However, I did like the release as brief as it was. The writing was great as far as character development/dynamics were concerned, and it had really interesting world building with how pronounced the racial agenda of the asura was. This saga in general has done well showcasing the varying agendas and attitudes of the norn, Charr, and (now getting into) the asura. I just wish the writers had been able to take their proper time, but it seems clear to me the studio is in chaos to some degree and NCsoft is tightening the leash (and essentially forced the studio to rewrite for an expansion they had no plans to make at the start of IBS). I liked going back to old maps for fresh new instances. Lots of mmo use old maps for new stories and tell great stories doing so, such as FF14. I wouldn’t mind more of that in the future, cause it gives the studio room to focus more on characters, world building, and quality story content when they’re not crunched to pump out new maps. It was short, and there will be more story, but the sudden format change is a bit worrying and jarring. I really liked the IBS and it’s clear it has been cut short to push out EoDs. It’s unfortunate that the studio doesn’t feel stable, but they’ve dealt with a lot the past couple years. I found the DRMs mechanically boring, and frustrating to boot with all the knockdown effects (which only serves to punish casual players in unorganized parties). I think the DRMs will be cool to replay a few times, but long term, I don’t think they have much value as replayable content without some reworking (that I doubt will happen). My biggest gripe is the sudden shift in the plot. We can kill dragons now? What happened to the world ending if another dragon dies? Has the whole cast been dumbed down, or do they really believe Jormag? Are we being magically persuaded to go along with Jormag’s desire to kill Primordus, and that’s why no one is earnestly resistant to the notion of killing another dragon? It doesn’t feel like an intriguing or purposeful mystery, it just comes off as a sudden and gross retcon. It tainted the otherwise great character work of this episode, for me.

> @"Jilora.9524" said: > They need to make npcs get knocked out of the fight like braham or main npcs where they just dont att for a bit after defeated. These npc's just die over and over and you gotta rez them esp on bridge they just dead whole fight and you always got one party member rezzing them for w/e reason. Or make them invulnerable or something otherwise they just in the way in some of these instances I did find it frustrating how quickly NPCs died, though mostly because the field is then littered with ‘resurrect’ prompts while you’re fighting enemies and bosses. It’s certainly an issue when a party member is downed and you start resurrecting a dead villager because there are so many. Otherwise I enjoyed the story aspect and liked the reuse of old maps, but certain aspects felt frustrating. Like the endless knockdown effects, which really only serve to punish casual players who don’t get into organized groups.

The release is much better than people give credit for, imo. I have some definite issues with it, but as far as compelling world/character development goes, I am intrigued. Taimi and Braham’s argument, Caithe and Ryland’s conversation, tension between Jory and Jhavi. And seeming strain on Jory and Kasmeer’s relationship? On top of that, I really liked going to instances of old maps. I found the DRMs exciting for that reason, but I can certainly see how they’ll lose value overtime and become grindy and monotonous. I, for one, was getting extremely irritated by the constant knockdown effects from enemies, bosses, and the environment. That is pretty much the only aspect that makes the content “challenging.” I don’t need it be challenging personally, but I also don’t want to feel annoyed. So, in all, I really enjoyed the episode. It took a good look at a few characters and showed us some new/interesting sides to them. I am pretty eager to see what’s going to happen next. If we get more character development and story, I don’t mind going to old maps. Every other mmo does it, and they can tell great stories if they take that route (like the big story patches FF14 does between expansions). My only major concern is that everyone in the cast suddenly has amnesia and isn’t talking about the death of another elder dragon bringing about the end of the world. Surely one offhand comment about “the balance” being fake — by *Jormag*, of all beings — isn’t enough for our heroes to forego the theory the entire game has been built on the past several years? For me, it taints the otherwise excellent writing for this episode. I’m just... confused. And concerned. I’ll have to give the chapter another go this weekend, as well as work on DRMs. Might be more fun with guildmates.

> @"Slowpokeking.8720" said: > > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > > @"Slowpokeking.8720" said: > > > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > > > Personally, I never had any interest in Jormag *until* this season. I really like the way they've portrayed Jormag, and the voice acting has been spot on. > > > > > > > > I agree I would like more Norn content, but I don't think the mix with Charr stories is bad. I just wanted more. The saga announcement gave the impression this would be a sweeping epic that deep dives into Norn lore as well as Charr cultural issues. At this moment it seems we only got two episodes each for both races, and I certainly expected more than that. It still stands to see what Champions does. It could continue expanding on Norn lore, though I am doubtful as the shift seems to focus on Primordus as a threat. > > > > > > Then you didn't pay much attention to the previous plot of Jormag. Most of its personality was hinted before. > > > > No, they just didn’t seem that interesting until now. > > Everything was there, Jormag has always been the dragon with the most personality and one of the richest setup(beside Zhaitan and Mordremoth). Not really

> @"Slowpokeking.8720" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > Personally, I never had any interest in Jormag *until* this season. I really like the way they've portrayed Jormag, and the voice acting has been spot on. > > > > I agree I would like more Norn content, but I don't think the mix with Charr stories is bad. I just wanted more. The saga announcement gave the impression this would be a sweeping epic that deep dives into Norn lore as well as Charr cultural issues. At this moment it seems we only got two episodes each for both races, and I certainly expected more than that. It still stands to see what Champions does. It could continue expanding on Norn lore, though I am doubtful as the shift seems to focus on Primordus as a threat. > > Then you didn't pay much attention to the previous plot of Jormag. Most of its personality was hinted before. No, they just didn’t seem that interesting until now.

@"Ruadan.9301" I feel you. The only idea I can really put forth is the possibility Jormag is magically manipulating us to a greater extent than we realize, making us going along with things we should know better than to go along with. Psychologically influencing Aurene to feel like she shouldn’t intervene with their banter. Maybe something that will be revealed down the line, but I don’t know if they’re going to execute it well (if they’re not just hand waving). It’s sad to have so little faith right now.

I've only played the intro so far and will play more tonight by diving into the first DRM. My first impressions are; the dialogue and character works seems pretty great. So far it's the highlight. The first story instance in Rata Sum frustrated me because I kept dying, and would respawn at the lab and have to run through the whole environment to get back to the enemies. So it was frustrating for my squishy sb to die repeatedly, but okay I can accept that. But the trek back to the enemies made it even worse. Otherwise I am liking the *story* aspect, even if I am confused why it seems the incentive to not kill another elder dragon (i.e. avoiding the apocalypse) is being seemingly handwaved.

> @"Fenom.9457" said: > Say what you will about this episode, it does have flaws, but I really liked the story (thus far, whether it's good in the end will depend on how the whole saga goes), and especially how we got to touch up on subjects and characters we haven't seen in a long, long time. An update on the Pale Tree, for example. I really like them playing up the Asura and Norn racial hatred and bias against certain dragons, they're both right in a lot of ways and it'll be interesting to watch unfold, I could see the two races come into direct conflict as we have to decide ultimately whether to kill Primordus and let Jormag continue with whatever they're plotting, or kill Jormag before it can do anything irreversible, and face Primordus without help from Jormag. This is an interesting thought. Way back the devs mentioned they might bring back player-driven plot choices, such as electing Evon or Ellen Kiel back in Season 1. What if there's a similar vote on whether Primordus or Jormag dies? Not sure how I'd feel about that. I've only just played through the initial story leading up to DRMs, but thus far it seems like everyone is VERY conveniently accepting the notion that the 'balance' of The All is fake. A LOT of talk about killing Primordus without any push back that another elder dragon death (without a replacement) would doom the world. I will honestly be upset if the writers handwave the last several years of plot building the notion that we NEED multiple beings to maintain The All so flippantly. Sure, I could *maybe* see Jormag lying to get their way (especially if they've got a secret scion that could ascend in Primordus' place), but for Aurene, the Commander, and Taimi to just... not bring up the impending apocalypse if Primordus *is* killed? It makes me very worried the narrative team thinks we're complete imbeciles that wouldn't notice or wouldn't care about this dramatic departure from the status quo built up for the past several years. Like these notions of killing Primordus are entirely uncontested. The notion that the balance is fake is entirely uncontested. What???????

This is an interesting theory and for once I don't think it's implausible. I could see the writers taking this direction. As far as Primordus has been established, however, we've never seen them take an interest in mortals. I don't see why that would change now. Why Braham? We know Primordus is capable of creating incredibly powerful minions of their own. I don't see why Primordus' 'Champion' wouldn't be one of its own creations. That being said, the episode hints that Primordus may have evolved, as Phlunt comments that while we aren't seeing Mordremoth and Zhaitan's magic in Primordus' minions (like we did in the Ember Bay map, etc), the slumber we induced may have given the fire dragon time to properly absorb that magic. Practically, it could account for any future models of Primordus that we see looking different from what we witnessed in S3. Story-wise, they could use this proposed adaption to account for a personality/tactical shift. So maybe the Plant/Mind and Death/Shadow magic, once fully blended with Primordus' Fire/Conflagration domains, will give us a more overtly intelligent and nuanced Primordus that would see potential benefit in a mortal Champion. Maybe we'll hear Primordus speak after all.

> @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > The idea of a boat voyage is fun. Skimmering all the way from central Tyria or Elona just seems... beyond bad haha. Travel by ocean/sea seems like a bad idea with a deep sea dragon on the loose, but I suppose Zhaitan was always the one really interrupting travel by ship. > > At this point, we don’t know where the DSD is. We could potentially witness its minions on a boat ride. Which is why, logically, I don't see why the Commander/DW would choose to go that route if travel by air (or mists) is an option.

The idea of a boat voyage is fun. Skimmering all the way from central Tyria or Elona just seems... beyond bad haha. Travel by ocean/sea seems like a bad idea with a deep sea dragon on the loose, but I suppose Zhaitan was always the one really interrupting travel by ship.

I think you’re reading into it too much. The dialogue in context of the episode is pretty straightforward, as Smodur had become a minor antagonist to the Commander and Rytlock by repeatedly undermining and disrespecting them. Plus, as Rytlock says, their chance at a resolution with Ryland was ruined by Smodur killing the last of his warband (her name slips my mind). With the dead guards, it just seems to be a subtle nod to what’s about to happen. Ryland killed them to get in position to assassinate Smodur, and we just didn’t notice in time to prevent it. I haven’t actually seen the dead guards myself, so I’m just going off what you say.