Zola.6197

> @"zityz.6089" said: > It has taken then 7-8 years for us to kill of 3 dragons. Now they're trying through rush 2 more within a fraction amount of time with a story that has been all over the place, all before the expansion. > We can’t really know if that’s true until it happens. That *appears* to be the inevitable conclusion at the moment, but that could end up a red herring. Judge the chapters that have released, and hold the verdict on forthcoming content until you can actually play it.

The reason is probably “something something The Dream,” like most everything else with the sylvari. If only HoTs hadn’t been cut to hjell, we might’ve got more answers about the nature of The Dream. Hopefully one day...

I really did not get the impression Ebonhawke was being portrayed as “backwards.” It makes sense in fiction for them to be wary of Charr given the long history of conflict between them. It’s not as simple as just getting over it when you still live *in* it every day. I’d imagine a place like Ebonhawke on average would be more prejudiced against Charr for that reason. Doesn’t make it “right” but it does make sense when your city/surrounding lands has domestic Charr terrorists lurking about (renegades). I imagine a lot of separatists hail from FoR over someplace like DR. Crecia isn’t wrong though, either. And yes, the interaction does highlight some cultural traits ingrained in her as a Charr. I feel like Kasmeer helped paint a pretty balanced picture, gently but firmly rejecting the notion that their fear was entirely unfounded. It didn’t feel one sided to me at all. But let’s face it, they’re gonna have to get over it eventually. This is another step toward that.

I liked the story in this chapter.

While I want an engine update and a retuning/remaster of core, I don’t think that makes much sense for EoDs. I think those things could massively improve the game, however. A new race works as a big expansion selling point, though I am doubtful we’ll see it.

Welp, I had a really thoughtful and in-depth comment but y’all got the first thread deleted apparently. ?

> @"Solvar.7953" said: > The post about GW1 (and each release having a full story) reminds me a problem with LS story, which is that with 2 months between installments, it is pretty easy to forget various details about what is going on. I know some folks re-play the previous episode shortly before the next release to refresh their memory. > But it also feels like a lot of the more recent stories have characters just running around the map doing mostly pointless stuff, just as a way to stretch out the release. GW2 has never been very good about side stories - it is pretty much the main story, or various map events which are things going on, but don't add much to the story. > They have developed weird/problematic habits as a studio. Their former endeavor to add a full map every living story release means they're spending less time on the story, as all the general map/event dialogue factors into their 'budgets' story content. In the end, we often get story releases that are fairly short wherein there's little time to develop characters and meaningfully explore their stories, motivations, and relationships. Adding to this, they often run out of time to complete all the content they want to create for the explorable map, so they have to cut things that have left certain living story releases feeling very bare bones (Kourna is the clearest example of this, imo). I was glad when they decided to slow down with Icebrood Saga and release maps in parts, but they weren't event allowed to develop a rhythm with that before EoDs suddenly materialized. One thing I like about Champions is the return to older maps for new stories. The dialogue/character conflicts were some of the most interesting I've witnessed in this game since 2012. If ANet could strike a balance between creating new content while still utilizing the older assets, I feel the story could be so much better. Honestly, the living story seasons would be so much stronger if they primarily took us back to older maps with longer/meatier story chapters. Maybe not *every* release, but the bulk of them. One or two new maps a season, with the rest of the drama taking place in familiar locations. The devs would have so much more time to really dig into their development process, and when it's time for truly 'new' content to drop in the form of maps or expansions, they've had freedom to fully realize their designs without sacrificing too much in the process. Of course I'm not working this industry, so everything I say/theorize has to be taken with a grain of salt. At this point I think it's too late to correct course, as the community is used to a certain format of content delivery. A lot of people have been upset since Champions was announced because they're not getting a new map for a while (in tandem with the extra short story content). I don't think Champions is a total failure personally, but I can't blame them for becoming accustomed to the system ANet designed.

I think it favors end game. You can pick it up whenever, but the base game + the trading post can easily provide you with what you need as you're leveling. I personally dislike crafting, so I never bothered with it until I wanted to craft a legendary and ascended armor.

I do wonder if chapter 4 will end the Icebrood saga, or if there’ll be a epilogue episode to resolve any major threads and properly set up for EoDs (similar to the prologue introduced some major characters and themes of Icebrood Saga).

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > Boys drool and girls rule, sorry. > > > > Also, most of the player population greatly disliked Trahearne. It is a shame Vlast had such a sad life that ended as soon as we met him. > > > > There are lots of prominent male characters that are fine. And if the forums are to be believed, everyone hates the female characters too, so no one is really winning. Personally I think most of the cast is fine, we just need a more consistent writing team. > > Not disagreeing with you about the rest but Trahearne was great. It was a very interesting character, with a good story arc. He should come back as a dragon avatar and bring Vlast with him. And both together help us to defeat the dragons. 'Trahearne was great' has not been a popular opinion for the vast majority of the game's history. If the opinion is changing over time in an 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' sort of way, so be it. But leading up to Heart of Thorns, the community was *begging* for Trahearne to be executed for 'stealing the spotlight' (which is something the forum/reddit communities still do regarding... most main characters lol). Personally, I didn't mind the character. I thought the voice acting/direction was *horrendous*, and therefore hated having to listen to the character speak (a problem I also have with the female Sylvari PC - sorry Jennifer Hale, love you in everything else). While I wouldn't really mind the character returning in theory with a new voice actor or better direction, I am tired of death being a trifle in the game's setting. A lot of major deaths have lost impact because characters simply return as ghosts now. I personally did not like the Commander dying and coming back to life either. I would like death to be more final in this franchise, and characters only killed off when really necessary.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > I can only see two plausible ways for the story to go: > 1) Jormag outright "betrays" the truce (which never actually existed to begin with). > Everyone will be "surprised". > > 2) It'll be a situation where Jormag tells the Svanir to attack us and then tells use that they did it on their own volition. > And the brain-dead commander and followers will belief Jormag. > > At this point, I don't think Arenanet can salvage Season 5 into anything even resembling an almost-decent story. This is my fear. The current interactions with Jormag seem to require the Commander and Co. to be dumbed down. I *think* it'll come down to 'persuasion magic' in the end, so it's technically not our fault we were gullible because we, along with Aurene, were being subtly influenced by Jormag's magical domain. In the past we've usually had some indication people are being influenced by Jormag though, or at least Jormag via Drakkar. If the resolution is 'we made a mistake' it's going to have to be perfectly written and executed with all the proper reasoning and evidence, or else I'll be so disappointed and upset. I am still not over Jormag telling us the balance is fake and no one making a peep. The only excusable explanation is magical manipulation, and even that feels like a weak argument, though one I *could* accept with proper build-up and explanation. Something GW2 devs seem to do a lot is leave things vague in game, and then 'confirm' or explain things in dev talks, which is... bad. These things should be clear in the context of the game.

> @"coollizzylou.9387" said: > anyway,,,,,,,, i just want to say, as a story and lore nerd, Champions has be absolutely FEEDING me. > > like.... gosh i could go on and on about the character drama, the lore implications, the world building? EOTN is an absolutely incredible little hub of interest. we have all 5 races and the pact, along with all of the factions we're recruiting. it's so great! Logan telling you that the Pact is strained is so good because it's conformation of the pact's trajectory. the ambient dialogue and the npcs that are there are just so cool. it's so cool to see the orders and the governments and the factions intermingled as they prepare for the upcoming battles. we got an update on the pale tree! Sigfast is there! Phlunt! > > and the character drama? the fight between Braham and Taimi? the back and forth fishing for information between Caithe, the Commander, and Ryland? the friction between Jhavi and Jory? SO GOOD! they're both showing the stress of the current story and following through on story beats that were laid in advance (the asura and Primordus, what being a champion means, and how far is too far when it comes to war respectively) and i am so glad! > > the writers are pulling out all the stops for this and I am so, so excited to see where it leads. that is all While I do have some qualms with the Champions release, I do agree with the sentiments you express here. Though things feel like they've accelerated at a rate I'm not a fan of, I feel like the writers have done a good job with what they have to work with. I loved all the ambient dialogue in the Eye, old NPCs returning with new updates and information, as well as the character conflicts/interactions in the DRMs. Those aspects were really positive for me, and I hope that trend continues through Champions and beyond. Looking forward to seeing the EotN continue to expand in new ways. Edit: To add, I also enjoyed returning to old maps for new stories. I wouldn't mind more of that in the future. I wouldn't even need instances with new changes to the environments like the DRMs have done with all the dragon-related chaos (though that is fun too). I would enjoy returning to the open world map of Gendarran Fields for new/smaller scale stories as well.

An accelerated story is to be expected, but I did not anticipate Jormag becoming hostile toward us this soon. I figured the ruse of a 'truce' would be drawn out till chapter 3 or 4, but I suppose we don't have that kind of time. Do Svanir sometimes cover themselves in ice, or is that only for those corrupted into Icebrood? I thought for a moment perhaps these are a rogue faction of Svanir going against our truce, but that seems unlikely. I could see them being upset about Jormag selecting a charr champion instead of someone from the Sons of Svanir, but I don't think corrupted Icebrood would be able to go against Jormag's wishes. There is a prominent Svanir in the trailer not covered in ice though. I wonder if this could be another champion of Jormag gifted with more freedom than the average Icebrood.

Are any of you surprised we're getting more DRMs? You didn't think they were suddenly giving us fully fleshed out maps, right? I don't remember if the devs confirmed 10 DRMs, but the data miners at least pointed us toward that reality. The third part will be a few more DRMs, and the fourth part, the finale, will likely be more instanced story content. Data miners revealed the EotN map will get a small expansion before Icebrood Saga comes to a close. We'll be able to explore the zone immediately outside the structure, but it won't be a *big* area. Still, a welcome development from me. The devs have made it pretty clear by now that Icebrood Saga is coming to a rapid close as they focus on the expansion, so expect the least from these story updates. Of note, they are trying to get the finale out in April now instead of May. It's good to hear they are (seemingly) ahead of schedule. Hopefully that means good things for the expansion. I don't hate the concept of DRMs or using those as a format for delivering story content, but they do need to make some improvements to the format. Hopefully they have adjusted for some of the major complaints, but I will anticipate otherwise. It does feel jarring how quickly Jormag's "friendship" seems to have evaporated. It seemed inevitable, but it's annoying to see it happen so rapidly. I suppose it could be rogue Svanir that are up to something separate from Jormag, but that seems unlikely. I could see them feeling angry and betrayed by Jormag selecting a Charr champion over one of their own, however. Edit: I believe there are Icebrood in the trailer though. I can't remember if the non-corrupted Svanir cover themselves in ice too though, or if only the Svanir turned to Icebrood have that aesthetic.

> @"Fenom.9457" said: > Dwarves were a race anet wanted to write out, I know. But in my opinion turning them to stone backfired on anet for that, because it made them super interesting. Also, jut because something is a stereotype doesn't mean it's bad or needs to be avoided. Who doesn't love dwarves? I would be fine with the addition of dwarves, but I'd rather other races take priority. We've seen dwarves done time and again, but there aren't a lot of games with playable bird or bear people.

There are endless threads about this lol. Doesn't make the most sense for lore, either. Most everyone (me included) would say: Tengu Largos Kodan Those are the three most popular with Tengu likely in first place, and Largos and Kodan battling it out for second place. I think it would be fun/ny to play as a Quaggan though, but Tengu would be my first choice. Centaurs would be cool too, but the armor design would be too weird/cumbersome for ANet to ever do that.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > > > > @"Zychuu.7294" said: > > > > The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad. > > > > > > Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said. > > > > > > If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish. > > > > GW2 uses unreliable narrators frequently though. What we heard from those NPCs in S3 is, in essence, just a rumor. We have no verifiable statements about Zojja's health -- just gossip. That could easily be proved or disproved based on the writers whims, so for now Zojja is just in limbo. She might as well be a vegetable at this point, though. The devs have stated they intended to use her in S4, but that plot got scrapped (for good reason). So for now I'll believe they're intending to bring her back eventually, but they need to right story beat for it (similar to Malyck lol). > > At this point, I think they have completely forgotten about Malyck. > > The developers themselves admited they do sometimes forget characters exists which is why Laranthir was forgotten about after Heart of Thorns until recent events of Icebrood Saga. I'd be interested to see where they admit to forgetting specific characters. But in their defense, I can't keep track of most anyone outside Destiny's Edge and Dragon's Watch.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > > @"Zychuu.7294" said: > > The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad. > > Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said. > > If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish. GW2 uses unreliable narrators frequently though. What we heard from those NPCs in S3 is, in essence, just a rumor. We have no verifiable statements about Zojja's health -- just gossip. That could easily be proved or disproved based on the writers whims, so for now Zojja is just in limbo. She might as well be a vegetable at this point, though. The devs have stated they intended to use her in S4, but that plot got scrapped (for good reason). So for now I'll believe they're intending to bring her back eventually, but they need to right story beat for it (similar to Malyck lol).

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > I don't see why it's difficult for you to grasp the idea they likely had a different plan before this update that involved a longer story for Icebrood Saga and didn't lead into an expansion, which caused several creative leads to leave the company within a short time frame. > Because we have direct evidence that it isn't true, and any argument that it is amounts to a conspiracy theory. None of what you bring up is 'evidence' they couldn't have altered course at some point between the announcement and February 3rd.

> @"TeeracK.3601" said: > i was expecting the spirits of the wild to get powered up after we killed jormag and them having been so diminished before hand explaining why norn dont transform as much in gw2. Yeah, it's a shame the game couldn't implement that properly. I forget norn are shapeshifters because it almost never comes up, and there's very little reason to shapeshift for gameplay reasons. It would be neat if the norn could just do it aesthetically whenever. Maybe a norn focused expansion could find a new way to adapt the shapeshifting to be more visible. The norn as they are just seem like a human sub-race.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility. > > When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still _reasonably_ close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not _consciously_ thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them. I wish we could actually witness their dynamic. They have barely been in the same room together since season 3, years ago. I honestly never noticed any turbulence in their relationship, but people mention they’ve been on the rocks for a while. My memory isn’t the best when it comes to the test of time, though. If they’re going to break up or stay together, I would like to actually see the development there. Personally, I’d like them to thrive as a couple. I am tentatively expecting some relationship drama in EoDs with Marjory and Kasmeer featuring as prominent companions for that expansion. Kasmeer as a diplomatic representative of Kryta, and Marjory coming along to explore her ancestral homeland/act as a potential cultural lens for us. I imagine Kasmeer would be more of a secondary or tertiary character in EoDs working as a diplomat in the background but popping up for relevant scenes with Marjory. They’re long overdue for content/development as a couple one way or another.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > 2. Faaaaaaaar shiverpeaks, focusing on Norn and the Spirits of the Wild - perhaps returning to their ancestral homelands. > We did that with Bjora Marches, and Drizzlewood. the northern edge of Bjora is just south of the furthest known northward Norn settlement from GW1. It's what they tried to do, but two maps is hardly on the same level as what a fully developed expansion could provide.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > They planned for the Grindbrood Saga to be bigger and more popular than it actually turned out. > > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > Yes, it's clear that at some point after the announcement/trailer, there was a shift internally and plans changed. Perhaps the story would've headed in the same direction over all originally, but it's clear there was an internal decision to greatly accelerate the story (and cut planned content, most likely). A good number of the creative leads on Icebrood Saga also left the company shortly before/after the expansion was announced some months later. We will likely never know the specifics. > > As far as we know this is untrue. > > Way back on Feb 3rd 2020, just after episode 2 released, and before the pandemic hit, Anet put out a post on the forums stating that, after episode 4, they planned to go back to more LWS1 style content for future releases, and that is exactly what we got. They even specially mentioned things like the Boss Rush event style content, which we got with the faction donation drives. The number of Champions releases also matches the number of releases the portal tome suggested IBS would have, further confirming that notion. I don't see why it's difficult for you to grasp the idea they likely had a different plan before this update that involved a longer story for Icebrood Saga and didn't lead into an expansion, which caused several creative leads to leave the company within a short time frame.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Zojja gets a very brief mention in Champions, which implies that she's still... not well, to say the least. I can’t remember any mention of her. Any quotes you can provide?

Kralk's torment is eons old. It was not caused by the events of the game, but rather something he's been suffering from since at least the previous dragonrise 10,000 years prior. We don't know if torment was unique to his situation, or if it's something all dragons contend with. From Kralk's case it seems his level of greed/magic consumption is what made him go mad with torment. For all we know, the other dragons just haven't consumed the same level of magic/conflicting magics. As far as we know, no elder dragon has died before to allow other dragons to consume whatever magic they release until now. This phenomenon is relatively new and began with Zhaitan in the personal story. We have yet to see how this affects elder dragon's long term beyond some superficial changes to their minions or abilities (like mist-walking with divine magic demonstrated by Kralk and Jormag, or Aurene's resurrection magic gained from Joko). In Champions, Councillor Phlunt hypothesizes Primordus may have evolved/adapted during slumber to better process Mordremoth and Zhaitan's magic, which he believes may account for the absence of death and vine touched destroyers we're seeing now. In the end, you can probably chalk it up to an inconsistent narrative team that changes the rules as new members/leads cycle in and out.