Zola.6197

Gorrik has been in Icebrood Saga, just more in the background. Marjory was deeply affected by the spectre of her sister in episode 1 and took a break, but she's returned as of the Gendarran Fields DRM. Rox has been written out, more or less. She's left Charr society/the High Legions to live with the Olmakhan, as she clearly prefers the way of life they carved out for themselves. They don't really need to update us on her anymore because they've resolved her story. As far as I'm concerned she's no longer in Dragon's Watch, or is at most part of the "reserves" that will only be called upon when really needed. Taimi has been absent until Champions. She's featured heavily in the first story instance and DRM. Edit: Aside from players often complaining about her, her disease is also getting worse as of S4 (though we haven't heard an update on that since she's reappeared in the DRMs). I don't remember the dialogue exactly, but she's been up to stuff in Rata Sum since then, and the Charr conflict doesn't directly affect her or the Asura so it doesn't make as much sense for her to be there until the dragons get really involved. Canach we've yet to hear from, but like you say it's not strange for characters to disappear and resurface randomly. There's just no room for him in the current story. Rytlock, Crecia, Braham, Smodur, Malice, Bangar, Ryland are the main characters of the Saga. I guess you can throw Jormag and Jhavi in there. Everyone else is just tagging along narratively. I agree though, it would be nice for the devs to include small mentions/references to DW characters when they're absent (they did this with Kasmeer and Marjory during the Thunderhead Peaks episode, and it was nice to have an explanation for their absence). Canach never joined DW though because he wants to do his own thing for a while after being Anise's "slave." Edit: He adventures with us as an ally as he sees fit, but doesn't have any obligation to DW itself at this point. It does seem odd from the player perspective that the Commander wouldn't have knowledge of their allies, or at least inquire. But that's been a constant issue since the personal story ended. Zojja has been recovering from her injuries in HoTs for years, and the Commander has never once inquired about her health or whereabouts since then. And iirc, I don't think any (or at least very few) NPCs have brought her up either beyond some background dialogue in S3.

I really feel Joko should've been the focus of S4 entirely to let his power level and the threat he posed to the world really build to a satisfactory level. Honestly they *could've* made a whole expansion with Joko as the central antagonist. Elona and Joko as a character are rich enough sources of lore for that. I would not be one to advocate for rolling the story back though. The reasoning and writing for Joko to come back would have to be extremely well done, and I don't have that level of faith in the narrative team unfortunately. Joko is gone and should stay that way. I do think it would be cool to return to the unchained Risen and Orr though, and even take another look at what the Mordrem are doing with Mordy gone (and to wrap up the Sylvari storylines more satisfactorily to boot). I think that could be done in a living world season following EoDs at some point. S7 most likely if S6 expands Cantha much like S4 expanded Elona following PoF. If all the elder dragons are gone, replaced, or have allied with us, I would personally enjoy exploring in depth what happens to their surviving minions and territories now that they're gone. As far future expansions go, I would love to see (in no particular order): 1. Tyrian depths, heavily expanded Asuran and Dwarven lore. 2. Faaaaaaaar shiverpeaks, focusing on Norn and the Spirits of the Wild - perhaps returning to their ancestral homelands. 3. Charr focused expansion examining the cultural fallout of the civil war and societal changes accompanied by it, getting to see Blood and Ash citadels. 4. Aquatic expansion heavily focusing on Largos society (and krait, quaggans, and other ocean dwelling species returning to their homelands following the DSD's potential demise) 5. God-centric expansion that resolves the threads left by The Six, explores the mists and brings Xotecha lore to canon. Prime opportunity to get people to shut up about Lyssa and also reveal Balthazar's successor, and resolve the stories of Menzies and possibly Desmina (her sinister smile at the end of HoCs seemed like foreshadowing to me). Would also love to learn more about the origins of humanity and the gods that existed before the current pantheon (like Arachnia, though they're not technically canon yet). 6. Exploring new lands/continents - the world map we see in game is a fraction of the planet the game takes place on. There are far away kingdoms and continents we know nothing about. I would love to explore any of those, especially the Sunrise Crest or Oylmpia (I'm a sucker for ancient Greece). I would also like to see more Sylvari trees, however unlikely they exist, but I don't know if that would require a whole expansion. At least resolve Malyck's story, please.

Yes, it's clear that at some point after the announcement/trailer, there was a shift internally and plans changed. Perhaps the story would've headed in the same direction over all originally, but it's clear there was an internal decision to greatly accelerate the story (and cut planned content, most likely). A good number of the creative leads on Icebrood Saga also left the company shortly before/after the expansion was announced some months later. We will likely never know the specifics. There is no great reason for a carefully planned/constructed trailer to show scenes that would never come to fruition, so it is only logical to conclude content was cut as plans shifted in favor of an expansion given the surrounding context. And based on the past, we know ANet has cut a lot of content in past products -- we just didn't have such an obvious outward facing example of it. There were a lot of cuts to push out HoTs on time, and PoF had some heavy edits/changes in the story process if I remember correctly. We could get some small adaptions of these scenes in the trailer in the DRMs, but they'll be pretty brief if they're addressed at all.

> @"Smoosh.2718" said: > lest us never forget the original trailer for the game. If anything, it shows you the detachment of knowing what players actually want: Oh my, I have never seen that... What a batty trailer!!!

My goal is to play my alts more and learn different classes. I have a bad habit of only playing my main. I’ve only completed the personal story with one character aside from my main. I’d like to get into healbrand and condi renegade first. Have to gear them up though.

The Living World sub-forum was added more recently than the rest. Before people discussed LW stuff in Lore or the General sub-forum. I like Living World and I’d like to see it continue. I just want the quality to be consistent, which it isn’t.

I don’t really see the issue commenting on old threads if the topic/comment is relevant. People are always telling others to use the search feature, then get irritated when they actually do...

> @"Fipmip.7219" said: > i miss Trahearne because it was like he was the main character whose story we were a part of. with him gone, we become the main character and I cannot think of a flatter, more boring specimen than the commander. They are like the most immaculate, perfect statue of a person that always says exactly what is needed to move the story along, is perfectly witty whenever needed, is perfectly understanding whenever other characters have a problem, and is perfectly charismatic in the face of whatever dilemma is presented before them. How can the hero have any character development when they are supposed to be a blank canvas for the player to imprint themselves on? It would be better if some other character, perhaps logan, pushed the narrative and had ups and downs along the way. I don't know, whenever Braham or Taimi breathe 20 "please kill off x" threads pop up. I feel like that would get worse if the supporting cast was leading the flow entirely. These are the people who by and large dislike pretty much every major character and are perpetually unhappy though.

The last word as some mentioned was that they were looking for an appropriate place to insert Malyck’s story, and that they wanted to find a place for it, but nothing has come of that stated intention. Could cross your fingers for EoDs somehow, but the set up for Malyck clearly intended for him to be from the Maguuma (which was cut from HoTs). Either he managed to resist Mordremoth somehow, or his tree will be “retconned” elsewhere. Logistically though getting a sylvari tree outside the maguuma would be a bit of a stretch.

I enjoy the living story for the most part, but as some mention there are noticeable dips in quality at certain points. I'm always grateful for more story content, which has always been the main draw of games for me. There are definitely changes to the story I would make, but the game has entertained me since 2012 so I'm in it for the long haul. What is more disappointing is learning about cut content, cause usually that more than anything accents the weaker episodes in ls. Icebrood Saga felt pretty strong to me until now, and though I am disappointed how piecemeal the content drops will be for the remainder, I did like the character interactions in the DRMs. Interesting conflicts between characters. If there's more of that then I will enjoy that aspect of Champions. The things that really get to me happen when ANet gives us consequences or hard choices they immediately back away from, or give really sudden heel turns/reveals. Personally did not like S3 setting up Lazarus and then revealing it to be Balthazar, or recently when Jormag says the balance is fake and no one contests it (of course it remains to be seen if this is part of some bigger magical manipulation on Jormag's part).

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > One could flip that around and point out that Cantha has always had a special relationship with dragons (especially if the Celestial Dragon that is invoked during the Dragon Festival is _not_ simply Tahmu), and Aurene formed her bond with Caithe and the Commander before she became an Elder Dragon. So it's possible that the non-Elder Dragons of Cantha, particularly powerful named examples like Kuunavang and Albax, could have their own champions... This has been my thought since I saw the concept art of that woman. I think she might serve as a Champion to a elder dragon hopeful, as we did with Aurene. I have a hard time seeing the DSD seeking mortal connection based on the little we know. High dragons that might seek to replace the DSD, however, are another story. If we see any new Champion figures in EoDs, I think that's the version we'll see. "A Promised Future" could really mean anything though. Clearly something/someone is looking toward her future (for better or worse), or trying to point her future in a specific direction.

I started working on this. Got me excited and doing the festival events, but after looking up the cost of materials... I will might have to pass this up. I have enough coins on hand, but sacrificing 150 coins is pretty huge.

The prologue was definitely my favorite. Grothmar was a fun and pretty map. Solid concept and events. Story felt really strong too and showed a lot of promise for the Saga.

If you’re struggling you can open a party search in LFG stating you need some help. At least a few friendly people should join you!

I’ve seen this requested before, but it’s unlikely ANet would ever give players a run toggle option. If you wanna play non-hunched over cat people, there’s always ESO and FF14 lol.

Though it’s not quite the same Harathi Hinterlands has that vibe you’re seeking somewhat. It’s not gonna satisfy your modern warfare itch and it’s content from launch, but a lot of the environment has been destroyed from the on going war with the centaurs. As I understand the drizzlewood situation the fighting hasn’t been there for an incredibly long time, so perhaps less opportunity for a lot of natural devastation. Not exactly sure how long the centaurs have been messing up the wilderness in HH, but they were the main antagonist faction for humans at the start of the game so probably a much longer.

I’m still into my ranger e-spec concept where you basically summon a mega pet for a limited amount of time. I don’t think the mounted aspect would work, but a Final Fantasy type summoning following you around to dish out some extra damage, heals, or boons might be nice. **Ranger - Kirin Rider or Bell Summoner -** Main or off-hand focus, you befriend a kirin spirit and may summon it to your aid by its bell (the focus skin). Summoning the kirin is the transformation state similar to Celestial Avatar or Soulbeast's fusion mode. During this time the kirin either replaces your animal companion, or you actually mount it and ride it while fighting. Either way, the kirin gives you some powerful boons or abilities. Perhaps if they are really powerful, you can only summon the kirin for a limited window of time. But the idea is that you've made some sort of pact with the kirin and they come to your aid when you call. Definitely a bell tone when you summon it.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > Maybe she is the rumored other heir to the Krytan throne that could challenge Jennah. ;) > I dont think wearing the same outfits is a good basis for determining the royal succession. Ok bookah.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > That's an interesting thought - is 'war' the central concept of the domain (as 'Knowledge' was for Kormir and Abaddon), or simply the aspect that Balthazar chose to focus on and the core concept is actually something like 'Courage' or 'Competition'? It could be similar to an Ares and Athena thing where they're both related to war in different ways. But honestly I see Kormir as the 'Athena' figure in the human pantheon, though I don't know if war/warfare could be shuffled to her as a secondary domain. Courage, Competition, Conflict, Glory, Conquest, Strength. There are a few different ways they could spin it. But is there actual lore stating that Abbadon and Kormir share a 'knowledge' domain but focus on different aspects of it? I could likewise imagine a god of War being succeeded by a god/dess of Peace, if they wanted to fully invert Balthazar's schtick.

Maybe she is the rumored other heir to the Krytan throne that could challenge Jennah. ;)

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > Dunno, even Kalla had been mentioned previously in Charr lore document, the books, as well as in game. But a completely new and unheard-of Legend? I don't think even Anet would do that. In this instance I more imagine that it’s a new-to-us lore figure whose historical importance would be meaningful to the expansion, and whose exploits or deeds we’d learn of while exploring EoDs. But it would be a departure. Snaff is the only Asura that comes to mind immediately, but I don’t know if he’s famous enough to be a “legend” on par with Shiro, Glint, Kalla, Ventari, etc. Aesgir or Jora could make fitting Norn legends. Maybe even Eir? I could see Scarlet being infamous enough to become a Revenant legend. Legendary Mastermind Stance? Legendary Harbinger?

We also know there are six elder dragons because they were the six pillars that held up The All. There are likely many other 'high dragons' in the world - dragons like Glint, Vlast, and pre-ascension Aurene (and likely Kuunavang and the other Saltspray dragons), but as far as the lore has established there are only six elder dragons that presumably ascended to that status at some point in the past, unless they were born into it somehow. If 'mother' ever comes into play I believe she'll serve as an origin story for the elder dragons, but not actually appear in the story (or at least she won't serve as an antagonist). She might not have been that powerful if Kralkatorrik ascended to the position of elder dragon, since she would most likely have been a high dragon. And there's at least one more elder dragon we haven't seen yet, which is the deep sea dragon. For all we know the devs could decide they're 'mother' and explain the origins of the elder dragons through EoDs, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about that one. If we resolve the elder dragon threat at some point in the future, the next obvious step would be dealing with the human gods. We do know that Balthazar was 'stripped' of his divinity/magic/power by the other gods, and from established lore we know that power has to go into a new vessel immediately. The god that replaced Balthazar *should* already exist if the devs stick to those rules; they might not necessarily be a god/dess of war though. Sometimes the domains shift or invert as we've seen with Abbadon and Kormir. If we fight another god, and I don't have any desire to see that plot repeated, I imagine they would hail from the mists (maybe Xotecha). They could always bring back Desmina or Menzies as god-adjacent antagonists, but I doubt it. Other than that, there's plenty of factions and unresolved plotlines surrounding the five races and beyond. I wouldn't mind scaling the threat level back after elder dragons are done.

> @"Aerick Blackmoore.8167" said: > What about a Tengu hero, Talon Silverwing? Fits within Cantha. Weapon could be either Daggers or Greatsword,with Shout like abilities I do think a tengu legend is likely, probably one we haven’t heard of that could’ve gained fame in cantha or DoWs during the gap between games. Otherwise I’d think asura or norn are due for attention. Maybe a largos hero if there is a lot of underwater content but I doubt it.

Maybe no more mounts, but vehicles might be possible.

> @"anninke.7469" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"anninke.7469" said: > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said: > > > > > The way this is released, it doesn't make sense for the Ebon Vanguard to be here without the story and dragon response to be available. > > > > > > > > There is a number things in this episode that don't make sense. > > > > Everyone, except the on-the-way-to-be-redeemed boy Braham, being ok with suddenly siding with Jormag. > > > > The commander _not_ murdering Ryland on the spot for being responsible that Jormag is awake. > > > > The business decision behind releasing such minimalist content, which obviously had no chance to be liked by most players. > > > > The Destroyers reverting back to being fire-only, rather than making use of the dead Elder Dragons' magic. > > > > The new Destroyers being able to take damage from Burning. > > > > > > And Crecia being Blood Imperator just like that. > > > > Well Bangar went AWOL, so Crecia took over, her title went from acting imperator to the actual imperator. > > The problem (as I see it) is that it happened sneakily off-screen whith no official announcement, no ceremony, no explanation. And no one, including Bangar when she calls herself the imperator right in his face, has a word to say about it. With her camped in the Eye I hoped we would be able to at least ask her about it. But no, she only offers more blabbering about Ryland... Rytlock has a line in the first story instance that said Crecia faced some opposition (off-screen) when claiming the title for herself, but that she dealt with the naysayers. Not sure what the exact quote is, but they do briefly address it early on in truce. We just don't hear the details, and we don't hear it from Crecia. Based on what we've seen in Truce, the devs likely do not have the time to give this plot thread the development it deserves.