Aomine.5012

I'd say Reaper for PVE. (Aside from raid, they're top tier in every PVE contents and they never die too due to insanely powerful down-state life leeching)

They're very powerful in fractal too. (INSANE breakbar potential and INSANE aoe cc, good aoe dm/ very tanky with full offensive gears/ /good sustain)

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> Power Rev and Necro, deep in the depths of Oblivion.

You say that, but they're pretty op in Fractal though...

(Very good cc/ aoe/ condi spam, very bulky, cheese through most encounters)

Even the power one is super good in fractal.

You don't need to be the highest dps to be good yknow..

As for PVP/ WVW, you have scourge still dominating in those areas..

So how the heck is Necro bad? Just because they're not top tier in raid, which is like 5% of the game content?

Easy way to avoid the issue is kick anyone whose AP is below 5k.

5k ap can easily be obtained by simply doing daily and some other easy achievements.

If someone doesn't even have that, it means they're new or they rarely play GW2.

It's by no mean an indication of whether how strong a player is, but a 5k requirement is an easy gap of whether the player is new or not.

It would save you alot of trouble in general.

Griffon is alot cheaper, so you should always go for Griffon first..

Plus it's hands down the best mount in existence.

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> Balance. Its easier to balance this way.

> And we dont need to see somekind of killing machine monster builds PvP like Mirage with chrono shield.

Gosh, it reminds me nightmare of mirage/ chrono in wvw being ridiculously op ...

Now imagine if those 2 combine (shrug)

In fact I think all the melee pet should have cleave 3 target as default.

Seriously almost all the none feline base game pets are UNUSABLE in PVE cuz they're just SO BAD...

We're pretty much stuck with Feline , HoT and PoF pets.

Nvm, you're talking about wvw..

Deleted the comment cuz the forum does not allow to delete post..

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > > > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> > > >

> > > > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > > > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> > > >

> > > > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

> > >

> > > This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

> > >

> > > Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

> > >

> > > After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> > > 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

> > >

> > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

> > >

> > > 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> > > This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

> > >

> > > From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

> > >

> > > So overall:

> > > Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> > > Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> > > Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

> > >

> > > As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

> >

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

> >

> > Check this post.

> >

> > Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

> > There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

>

> I've read @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s post (Good stuff!) but I retested in this case since raid builds don't normally use marksmanship or wilderness survival. Generally only Soulbeast builds use those traitlines, which are always perma merged with the pet.

>

> What exactly is wrong with my confusion DPS calculation? I've recorded Mirage gameplay across most bosses to get an idea for confusions current power and it is proccing (and hitting hard!). Just note that arcDPS isn't measuring it very accurately if you want to test (Use GW2Helper).

I'm literally testing on raid golem right now..

The confusion proc damage is so much lower than you claimed.

There's no-way it could be 5489 damage PER SECOND.

This is pet, not your mirage.

Most of the damage comes from AA.

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Aomine.5012" said:

> > You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

> >

> > The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

> > This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

> >

> > There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

>

> This is not true from my quick testing (For PvE raiding):

>

> Before 05/08/18 the Iboga was weaker than the Jacaranda at every raid encounter. It was (to my knowledge) not used anywhere. Primarily due to confusion being extremely weak.

>

> After 05/22/18 (Current build) I recorded the following pet DPS using the most common Druid raid build (NM/Skirmishing/Druid).

> 10 conditions on the target (Realistic) and the normal boons on the pet (Solid assumption given Fortifying Bond).

>

> Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> Iboga = 2348 DPS + About 10 confusion.

>

> 10 confusion at the 1750 condition damage of the Iboga results in a confusion proc of: 10x1.25x((0.195x1750)+95.5) = **5459 damage**

> This occurs every time the boss uses an ability, it also procs very often at fights like Mursaat Overseer despite him not physically doing anything.

>

> From my own observations most bosses proc confusion at a rate of once every ~3 seconds (MO) to once every second or more (Desmina). As a result, depending on the boss the confusion stacks are adding an extra **1820-5459 DPS** to the Iboga.

>

> So overall:

> Jacaranda = 2612 DPS

> Iboga = 4168 - 7807 DPS

> Making Iboga the best DPS pet to use at practically every situation (It even has CC).

>

> As always, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here. But it genuinely looks like the Iboga is still perfectly fine, and people are massively overreacting to the nerf.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7755/pet-dps-updated#latest

Check this post.

Also your confusion dps count is dubious at best.....

There're so many things to consider when you test confusion proc...

That 5459 definitely is not damage PER SECOND.

Also I like how you conveniently ignore the confusion proc damage BEFORE 5/08/18 patch.

I'm saying comparatively the new Iboga dm is lower than even before the bug fix of bonus damage on AA not applied.

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > > > It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

> > > >

> > > > Again, in PvE? What does that matter? And have you not been paying attention to everything that has been happening to this class? Any _more nerfs_, and ANet might as well delete the class. At this point, my only hope is that the next expansion brings us a better elite and better pets that makes this normalization have some kind of sense.

> > > >

> > > > Otherwise, arguing that somehow ranger will damage 'balance' as a whole is so ridiculous it's almost comical. Any ranger who has played this game for any length of time knows ranger has never gotten a fair shake at this game. That isn't going to suddenly change in PvE because of one pet.

> > > >

> > > > And, again, as far as PvP? ANet can gut the class to the bone. Already has. So this huge nerf won't make a hill of beans of difference again in PvP. In PvE? It's grossly unfair to fix a 'bug' and then make the pet even worse a week after the bug fix.

> > > >

> > > > Completely ridiculous.

> > >

> > > Are you sure we're playing the same game? From my perspective Ranger has consistently been one of the strongest PvE classes since Heart of Thorns launched. Even with all of the recent nerfs it's _still_ far ahead of everything else as a healer, and has a very solid DPS spec on the side (Not that the Iboga nerf even affected any of our DPS builds).

> >

> > Yes, we are all playing the same game. PvE stuff you can bring anything, except for those raid and fractal groups looking for specific comps. Druids are mostly in raids comps for might stacking and part time heals. My heal specced Ele can pump out far more healing than any druid in any mode, and can be specced for damage as well.

> >

> > Do you wvw and/or spvp? I ask because your comments clearly lean toward pve.

>

> I try to make it clear, but I only ever talk about PvE, specifically raiding. I don't play enough ranger in spvp/wvw to comment on that.

>

> Also just to be clear, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I main ranger, so of course having a strong pet is desirable, but sometimes being objective and realising that something was clearly broken and likely a mistake/lack of testing on Arenanets part is beneficial. I love @"Wondrouswall.7169"'s suggestion to revert the pet back to it's prebugged state and change twice-as-vicious.

>

> Regarding healing ele, it's completely overshadowed by Druid in PvE. We just bring so much offensive support, more than enough healing and reasonably high personal damage that absolutely no serious raid group would ever consider a ele healer over a Druid. The bugged Iboga made that imbalance even worse. I'm laughing everytime I read how "dead" Druid is on these forums.

>

> If nothing changes, then the current Iboga is still fine in PvE. It's still going to be the primary pet at nearly every raid boss (especially those that need CC).

You seem to misunderstand the issue here.

The issue is not the nerfing in Iboga, but the nerfing in Iboga that makes it WORSE than when the bug still applies because Anet data testers have no idea what they're doing. Now against target with EVERY CONDITIONS on them , the dps is lower than even before the bug fix when hitting foes with no condition on at all.

This is a joke right? Then why fix bug to begin with and then find excuse to gut ranger?

There's another unnecessary nerf which is making support pets' f3 useless to self, making the sustain of SB much worse in many other modes, since Jacaranda are some of the very few viable pets now in PVE. Other pets pretty much have garbage dps and garbage cleave potential or die too fast with no utility (felynes)

For PVE I'd go for Power now after the huge nerf in pve Scourge dps in one patch (Making the bursting potential of condi much lower)

The newly buffed power Necro is really enjoyable to play, strong, with lots of CC too.

You can even synergize with MM since it doesn't take too many traits to complete the power setup (Just reaper and Spite), and MM is very very durable in the current version of game, with very good CC potential. (One MM line pretty much covers the survivability and condi cleanse in one go)

It is probably single handedly the best solo build in open world, able to solo many Champs that're near impossible to solo by other classes.

It is also useful in fractal too due to free meat shield that'd reduce the painful level of adds in higher fractal, plus like I said, very good aoe cc potential = making mobs alot easier. The build also has excellent cleaving potential for adds (GS/ shroud), and excellent single target range damage for boss. (axe)

Condi Scourge is nice and all, but it is really not as strong as previously anymore, plus sustain is much worse in my opinion.

(If you play Scourge at launch you'd know how crazy it was lolz..)

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" There is no way on God's green Earth this nerf is justified in PvE. Are the mobs now complaining the pet is hitting them too hard? Are players complaining that the added damage is killing mobs too quick? Are rangers suddenly taking over with certain events?

> >

> > Come on. We all know why this happened, and it wasn't because of complaints in PvE. Yes, please revert this change in PvE or at least bring other pets to the same standard in PvE.

> >

> > Again, ANet can do whatever it wants in PvP.

>

> There are many complaints from PvE players about Druid being overpowered (rightfully so) and basically always having 1-2 fixed spots in a group.

>

> The Iboga made it so that Druid was once again, *the* healer, since it could suddenly heal, do 10k DPS _and_ buff the team, all in Minstrel's gear. Or how about a condi druid suddenly doing 30k DPS. Nothing else can compete with that.

>

> It's damaging for balance as a whole to have one class so far ahead of the rest for a given role. Ranger is by far my favorite class overall but I don't want it to be overpowered, then it just attracts more nerfs.

The problem being once again, Anet overnerfed it cuz their balance team testers are totally clueless at what they're doing.

The new Iboga dps is even worse than pre-bug fix when the bonus doesn't applied .

Now using Iboga against target with every conditions resulting in even less dps than back when the bonus doesn't even applied...

Wth Anet? What's the point of fixing that bug to begin with? To find a reason to gut ranger once again with petty excuses, and lied to us it's just bug fix?

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Ryrok.1302" said:

> > Rangers have so many cool off-hand weapon options that it's a shame they're so limited in main-hand weapons.

>

> Yeah but ranger has so many ranged options i rather want a weapon that hits an area in front of you in melee range instead of a onehanded LB/SB replacement.

> Idk what rifle and pistol want to cover ranger hasnt got yet.

>

Tbf. ranger's highest dps still comes from pretty much melee range condition..

Also we have as much melee as range.

Dagger main/offhand, torch, sword, GS are all melee range.

Axe is range, but to utilize #2 skill, people pretty much fight point blank too..

What ranger lacks right now is actually an aoe oriented range weapon that focus on area damage and area denial, which ranger so far has none.

(LB can barely count as one since only #5 skill hits aoe range. The damage is also pretty bad)

Since I made HOPE already, I really wish they release P/P for ranger. (5 skills, much like how warrior gets both daggers)

So far ranger has very few main-hand option, and only ONE range main-hand option, which is kind of hyber/ condition oriented too.

So it'd be very nice if we get P/P that uses power for ranger.

To differentiate from thief's P/P, maybe makes it focus more on the aoe aspect, 1200 range.

PS: I have no idea why people want Rifle since it'd pretty much be exactly the same as LB when you think about how Rifle works.

P/P at least would be vastly different from axe. P/P also gains another off-hand for ranger , increasing versatility.

> @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> Well anybody here more proficient at the games math on the fly, what would this come out to:

> * Full Ascended Zerk

> * Scholar Runes - 10%

> * Force Sigil - 5%

> * Marksmanship with Farsighted - 15%

> * Furious Strength - 7%

> * Twice as Vicious - 5%

> * Oppressive Superiority - 10%

> * Signet of the Wild - 250 Ferocity

> * Vicious Quarry - 250 Ferocity

> * Sic' Em - 25%

> * Ferocious Pet - 200 Power, 100 Ferocity

> * 25 might

>

> Not to say it's going to achieve 14k hits, but a setup like this has to be hitting like a truck.

Sotw is 180 ferocity.

Ikr...

I feel like I get alot less healing post patch, and I was right.

Like seriously, wth Anet? How is this op in any way?

You want to make supportive pet even worse than before?

I have Jacaranda as my stable pet due to good dps, but now the merging with him is next to useless...

(I often merge just to pop a heal skill)

That dps also has to be considered if the target is not wearing legit armors...

If they're not wearing anything, that damage is legit.

Thanks for the chart.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous Anet overnerf Iboga to the degree that it's WORSE than before the bug fix of its AA...

So what's the point of fixing that bug if they're gonna be lower than pre-bug fix?

That dps is using the dps of target having every condition, so why is it lower than the pre-patch version when the modifier doesn't apply?

Get your dps number right Anet!

Bleh, guess I'd stick with the old boring Jacaranda and Electric Wyvern (for CC and more aoe)

Well, Iboga used to be bugged because his damage modifier does not work.

Now they patched it and find that the damage value is so op, they nerfed it by 60%...

Duhhh, Smoke Assault all over again amirite?

Best spec to counter Scourge atm is actually P/P deadeye.

2nd best being Mirage in 1 v 1 situation.

3rd best probably goes to spellbreaker because of that sustain and anti-condi.

Ranger is NOT the one cuz the range damage is not enough to melt down scourge.

Ranger is NOT in a good place in pvp atm.

Better play Druid bunker and pick a big node map to annoyed the enemies.

If you want semi range power spec, Holosmith is a much better choice for its insane amount of aoe cc and high burst.

Usually just the LB+ GS old pair.

Don't even bother with axe cuz it's terrible not because of dps, but actually because of the atrocious projectile speed that will never hit anyone who's swiftnly moving..

Seriously they need to increase the projectile speed of this thing already like they did to LB.

I don't think it's really bad with triple spirits + nature spirit trait.

Been running a power druid with triple spirits , nature spirit trait, and high boon duration through rune of leadership + fractal tonic.

Able to keep up perma vigor, protection, might while granting bonus burning and bonus dm through the whole party.

It also maintain permanent fury/ swiftness / regen to the whole party through warhorn.

It doesn't has the highest dps but it has alot of utility.

(I use axe/ wh + sword / axe. Sword axe has the highest burst in ranger build and some fractal actually benefit from burst more)

One advantage of power ranger is the slot is not really locked to traps because utility slots not the main part of dps unlike condi ranger.

The trait choice is alot more free too compare to condi ranger. (Pretty much locked in certain trait line)

Able to maintain 12+ might to the whole party (more might in celestial form), perma protection, fury, swiftness, regen, vigor, bonus dm, burning , and occasionally more regen/ stability from Nature Spirit , and some quick healing/ cleanse is the advantage of this build

My test result in around 23k dps with realistic buffs.

Donnu how 46k happens.

PS: I feel like pressing F1 F2 is a dps lost since the most buffed attack from GS is GS 3rd chain attack and you just interrupted it.

Greatsword buff is truly appreciated.

I tested out on Golem and the dps is ALOT closer to sword axe now!

(Still worse, but it's only like 2k dps difference instead of 7k~8k difference)