Jski.6180

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > > > > > > > > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > Number are not subjective. > > > > > > > > > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) > > > > > > > > You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. > > > > > > I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted > > > > > > > > There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? > > > > > > So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's _not true_. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it. > > > > > > > > "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" > > > > > > > > From the op. > > > > > > .. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be _not true_. > > > > > > Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. > > > > You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol. > > There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game. > > You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth. Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one. But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed. I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > > > > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > > > > > Number are not subjective. > > > > > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) > > > > You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. > > I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted > > > > There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? > > So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's _not true_. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it. > > > > "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" > > > > From the op. > > .. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be _not true_. > > Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol. This is a question of you being ok with core ele being weaker then elite spec because ppl pay money for the elite spec.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > Number are not subjective. > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" From the op.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. Number are not subjective.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. Bad chooses is to not buy an expansion?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. This is a game for fun and by adding in such requirements takes a lot of that fun away from the player base. Ele has it worst then the other classes as its already atument lock for its trait line effects (other core classes do not need to be in a wepon for a full effect of an trait line like ele atuments). Its just bad planing on anet end and realty all there fault for forcing bad content on there player base because they simply cant work on any thing old and can only work on new things. That realty the balance and what ele has no true mechanic because anet never fixes old content or even finishes old content. Its and always burning bridges before they comply cross them.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" continually posts: > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > Yes, this is true ... thanks for continually posting it. That is know as power creep and p2w. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. > > > > > > > > > > You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it. > > > > > > > > You said it was ok a few post back do i need to post it over and over? > > > > > > You seem to have a massive comprehension problem. Nothing I have said in what you quoted from me contradicts what I am saying here. > > > > > > > > > > You said it was ok for core to be weaker then espec. I am sry that not going away. There is a set of logic that comes with that point of view and you cant apologized it away. > > Yeah I did, and that doesn't change what I'm saying and I'm NOT apologetic for it because it's true and it's how this game is designed and works. > > > Core ele was fine till they added in "REQUIREMENT" class that most ppl would call massive power creep and P2W. > > And that's the dishonesty of this thread ... it's still fine because performance differences don't eliminate those choices as meaningful so people can choose them and be successful. The dishonesty is your name calling ppl down there point of view. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > > > > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. > > > > > > You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it. > > > > You said it was ok a few post back do i need to post it over and over? > > You seem to have a massive comprehension problem. Nothing I have said in what you quoted from me contradicts what I am saying here. > > You said it was ok for core to be weaker then espec. I am sry that not going away. There is a set of logic that comes with that point of view and you cant apologized it away. You may really need to rethink about posting here most of the ele base wants core ele to be on par with the elite spec. Your only added to the insult by saying its ok because of these "NO REQUIREMENT." Core ele was fine till they added in "REQUIREMENT" class that most ppl would call massive power creep and P2W. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. > > You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it. You said it was ok a few post back do i need to post it over and over? > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > Yes and there are big problem with your points of view and your unwilling to deal with them. There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. That is why ppl are such the way with you on these forms. The player base who have the core game are just as importance as ppl with expansion. To make a split between these player base is just wrong and harmful to the over all game. We all play this game and we all should be on equal footing core vs espec.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. Especs cost money. So your ok with classes being stronger due to costing money.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > No, I never said that either. What are you saying?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > > > > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > > > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > > > > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. > > > > Your saying its p2w. This is my point. > > I never said that ... and that's why I'm calling you out for being dishonest. > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. That requirement is an expansion that cost money. Your actively saying its ok for anet to put in content that cost money and is stronger then "free" content.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. Your saying its p2w. This is my point. Well that is just YOUR criteria right?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > Not weaker. > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." Not weaker.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > > > > > Why not? > > > > (need to add more to post) > > > > > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. > > > > You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. > > That doesn't make sense ... classes and especs exist for variety, not performance differences. > > > Variety is what you make of it and you can even call gear builds with in classes a means of performance differences. Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > Why not? > > (need to add more to post) > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. Why is it ok for core ele to be weaker then tempest and weaver?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. Why not? (need to add more to post)

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? I am confused you seem to of forgot in the moment the suggestion and was looking at it as a real fix but now your see it part of big over all suggestion its no longer needed? If i believe swaping as is was its own mechanic for core ele then why would i ask tempest to have a cd between swap? Your talking in circles and forgetting part of all of this when it fits your convenient.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > There is no confusion. > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? Your just making statements with out backing them up at this point. That why most ppl think your saying nothing with your post because you are effectively saying "i disagree" and nothing more.