Jski.6180

All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding. > > > > > > The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but **turned out to be justified**. > > > Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented. > > > > Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying. > > > > The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op. > > Yes, but by your own admission then, every single comment in this thread is off topic. :sweat_smile: > I know they think they should have never happened and are posting out of outrage. But that's not what OP asked, and you even siad it yourself, it's the opposite of what OP asked. Btw, OP isn't saying anythign, OP asked a question. OP asked if there is some nerf that, after the dust has settled, people thought it's a good nerf. No its not though having a different view on something dose not make it off topic its just the opposite. We do not want topic to just be yes i agree over and over. What the point of talking if you do nothing more then agree. The 2020 nerfs (that spilled over to 2021) where some of the worst nerfs in the game and most incomplete.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding. > > The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but **turned out to be justified**. > Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented. Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying. The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op.

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > Or how about we return ele to being a long range class seeing as it's the squishiest thing in the world and shouldn't have to rely on gimmicks to survive lol Everything would be cool If I wasn't forced in melee combat because Battle mage=1337 bro, even though a battle mage should wear heavy armor... Tempest overloads require close range, weaver is all close range because scepter and staff are really just lacking in what they provide. Scepter lacks usability outside its old "one-shot" builds, it used to be able to dual before powercreep, but its damage and survivability just can't keep up, and it's aoe skills are locked behind delayed skillshots (dragons tooth, pheonix, shatterstone). Staff has been gutted and suffers from 2012 balance in terms of rooted skills and having too many aoe's that require the enemy to stand still. I mean it works I guess for are denial in pvp modes, but like cmon, it sucks. it's too slow and doesn't hit hard until you get it going. Very bad design for quick, flowing and active combat that this game is designed around. The thing is weaver is also a long ranged class but simply stronger then core in both dmg and def as well as tempest being a long ranged class but some what stronger in def. The ability of staff being an wepon chose for every elite spec of ele makes every elite spec a long ranged class. Core ele is significantly glasseser then weaver and tempest yet it get nothing for it AND the weaver and tempest gets all of there skills from the core ele (you realty dont not see tempest of weaver use there weapons.)

Its the quickness and macro the thfs / mez run when they can land 3 hits in less then 1 sec. Anet needs to realty needs to ban ppl for using them. Or remove quickness its an over all abusable boon.

The last and realty only major update of 2020 was too blanket nerf with lots of place holders that effectively destroyed builds. CC dmg nerf for skills that where dmg aimed for the wepon and passive skill that where significantly weaker the others put on 300 sec cd. That and over all 10 target nerf to support skills that where on much longer cd and had less effect over all.

> @"skunkstank.6128" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > > Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s > > > > I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too. > > Yeah i don't think this is such a good idea considering we have weaver it would literally defeat the whole purpose of the elite spec because that is it's signature thing. It would be like giving core engi access to the function gyro or core necro the ability to pick which shroud they want. > Right but weaver is more about its dule skills and only needing to be partly in an atument to get the full atument benefit. We are talking about being in another atument and getting the benefit of another atuments line. That and core ele is widly weaker then weaver so much so you can even call weaver a pure power creep of the core ele more so then what tempest was. Weaver is more tankly and dose more dmg then core ele.

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

> @"lLobo.7960" said: > Tempest rewards you for staying in attunements longer, weaver rewards you for constantly swapping attunements and combining them. > A spec with only two attunements is really... meh. > Id rather see an elite spec that change how the attunements give you new skills (so skills are fixed per weapon) and gives you weapon swap. > This was the suggesntion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76602/new-elite-spec-disciple-weapon-swap-and-longbow > > > @"lLobo.7960" said: > > The disciple is an elementalist that focus more on martial prowess than raw magic channeling. > > Focusing on martial expertise and physical prowess, the disciple can swap weapons in combat but looses the ability to have different and unique skills in each attunment and magical attacks. > > Instead, the disciple uses the elemental magic of attunements to boost its attacks and defenses and uses its weapons in martial combat instead of conduits to magic. To compensate the lack of long range magic attacks, the disciple uses a longbow to deliver his attacks from distance and physical skills to be mobile and effective in combat. > > > > **New weapon:** longbow > > **New utility skills:** physical skills > > TL/DR: Martial focus elementalist with long range dps as longbow, weapon swap instead of individual attunement skills, mobility, new conditions (torment and poison), and even stealth with combos. Instead of one weapon with 20 new skills, gains one weapon with 5 new skills and new skills for each old weapon (staff 5, scepter 3, dagger 5, focus 2). Staff and dagger become melee versions, scepter becomes akin to mace and focus akin to shield. > > I think weaver rewards you more for staying in an atument then say tempest as you get more dmg for going doable atument meaning you have to stay in that atument longer then an tempest when waiting for overloads (sadly the overload it self is not a ture reward for staying in that atument just an added effect.) Core ele is the only version of ele that was true 2-3 atuments only though trait lines. Weaver and tempest both get use of the other atuments skill due to there added effects. Core ele got every thing from its trait line and trait lines alone.

> @"Loboling.5293" said: > Prob blocks and blinds next. > ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ I do not think anet likes to give ele blocks as ele can do things during blocked and most of the ele def up to now are lock out def. Unless they do give ele a channel shield. Every thing the shield dose is channel and some what def aimed. But if they make another elite spec. that simply dose the same thing as the core tempest and weaver (they all do the same thing) then its another wait of time.

I am still of the mind conja weapons need to work like there own atument with a 10 sec cd and swap cd (4 sec if your a weaver or tempest).

Its kind of how the Core ele should of been with latent atument where you have the effect of the atument lines you trained into all of the time but your still able to use the 4 or 3 atuments you had not trained into. Say your Fire air arcain core ele you would be effectively a Fire air ele all of the time but you still can go into water and earth with out losing your fire air effects. As for a new elite spec ele needs boon control badly i am not sure if a 2 only atument would fit.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has. > > Because unless you're called ele...you get to be OP/broken for years.....oh by the way @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" plays an engi too so.... I still do not understand this mind set why is it "ok" for classes to have karma tide to them when its the dev who make these choese not the player base.

> @"Zee.1294" said: > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > I just find it funny how people think the next balance patch will fix all of the problems where it will just create other problems, for me.. there is no point to talk about balance, just move to whatever class is best for whatever game mode you play > > See... that is exactly why the bar is set so low....Yep... just pick another class....end you call that balance?....ok have fun! The game was more balanced with out elite spec then with them. So even if you cant say things being balanced ever you can say things are less balanced then they have been. Every new ideal anet seems to have only seems to make things worst if your playing the wrong class or not spending the money to get the right class.

As long as the elite spec can use all of the core weapons, traits and utility the elite spec will simply always be stronger then the core. Anet messed up by not removing equivalent effects and weapons from elites spec vs what the core class has. The best thing is make the core classes more fixable then the elite spec though F1-F5 accessibility. Best example is your tempest and weaver using staff only most of the time and not there elite weapons.

A lot of the big balance patch (the only one we got) was done in one big update then a few small ones the 10 target update from the last update was only part of the major update. So we only got 1 big update this year. We are still waiting for the place holder 300 sec cd on passive skills update and for CC re-balancing to be finished as all cc still are on there same unbalanced cd with there dmg update nerfs. So its even worst we did not get a full balance update last year.

Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has.

The buffs on it are nice though i wish there was a quickness buff on it over say the out going heal and boon duration buff. The active is not that good though its all about maxing the duration of the buffs.

We are down to 1 major balance patches a year then... The last update was NOT a balance patches.

Only self these days there just no point in working as a team with them out side of highly consecrated stealth blasting which has a blast cap. Combos for the most part are a dead tool for gw2.

Tempest can play just like a core staff build in wvw maybe better then a core ele it self as it gets a few added strun brakes and a few boon generation that core ele lacks in burst. You just simply lose the ability to arcain root and realy that not as big of a deal. This is true for weaver vs core as well. Sadly core ele is lacking for no good reason at this point. Fire aura transmutation and burning speed will be your best burst dmg you have.

Scraper also is one of the strongest boon strip in the game atm due to throw mine there relay is no other reason to play tempest atm.

Bit of an random ideal why not let core ele keep passive effects from atument trait lines regress of what atument they are in from moment to moment. The Minor traits.

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > Well, this thread seems awfully familiar. > > Like I said in the last one: though it is theoretically possible to have a healer with lower overall healing modifiers overwrite the regeneration of a healer with higher healing modifiers, in practice this isn't going to happen much. The only people who build up enough healing power to compete in regen priority with a dedicated healer is... another dedicated healer. In any practical sense, you're going to be comparing the regen output of a 1300 heal build with 180% modifiers to a 1250 heal build with 190% modifiers. Yes, there is a difference, but the overall impact in gameplay is negligible. > > Your idea to change regen into granting barrier.... doesn't solve much. For one, it will make regen about half as effective overall. Dedicated healing builds can get regen between 500 to 600 per tick, which is quite substantial. I.E. regen from my heal tempest build ticks at 549 per second, but 285 without modifiers. Second, Barrier only lasts for 5 seconds. This changes the problem of suppressed regeneration stacks from an odd fluke to a baked-in feature. Continuously applied regeneration will still override the weaker regeneration. This also makes regen overall weaker, because now its effect isn't permanent. > > Your suggestion would fix nothing at all. > > EDIT: Also, I think you still misunderstand how regeneration works. New sources of regen don't "negate" old ones. They just take priority. For your scrapper example, if the scrapper applies 1 second of regen with 250 healing power, that will tick for one second, then immediately after the ele's regen will begin ticking away. The only time that a regeneration boon can be suppressed is if you apply enough individual stacks of regen to exceed the boon stacking limit. Again, while this is theoretically possible, in any practical sense you won't see this happen. You seem to not understand you have more then one way to stack up healing though out going healing where your less tankly as a support but your heals to others are stronger and the healing power set up where your heals are not as strong but your ability to self heal and out put barrier is stronger. Scraper 1 sec reg that apply ever condi they clear often caps out the reg duration eating up all of the ticks. Scraper or realy eng simply has a higher healing base because of passive healing power + this means the eng reg will always hit a group over an healer whom is going all in for support healing and not the tankly support. As for fixing reg it self this gives anet an easy out to fixing this massive outdated effect that never was balanced for out going healing. It also gives reg an effect out side of only reacting to a hit but letting ppl all have the ability to put up some type of def for an incoming hit making the over all combat more active.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Lonami.2987" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Lonami.2987" said: > > > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > > > # Introduction > > > > > The current state of conjured weapons is a subject that is frequently touched on in this sub-forum. Some say that conjures should have the ammo mechanic, while others want them to fully become like engineer kits. Whatever the case, it is almost universally agreed that conjure skills are currently lacking as a utility skill category and that they need serious work. Not only are they a failure in the elementalist community's eyes, but they are also a failure in regards to their original purpose. It is obvious that the developers at ArenaNet intended these to be supportive skills that help your allies get access to new weapon skills and do fun things with those. However, the optimal use of conjures has been to plug up the holes in an elementalist's rotation instead. You just cast a conjure and you fire the 1-2 good skills and then you drop it. The second conjure is picked up later so you can use the skills again, instead of giving it to your ally who usually doesn't have much use for it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Conjures are currently a redundant and outdated skill type for several reasons: > > > > > 1. They do not serve their original purpose. Supporting allies with them is pointless and not optimal. > > > > > 2. They add needless complexity to weaver rotations that are already complex enough. > > > > > 3. Due to weaver DPS, conjured skills contribute to core weapon skills remaining worse than they should be, which can affect all game modes. > > > > > 4. Conjures are very clunky, with a needless cast time and an annoying pickup time. > > > > > 5. Most skills from conjures are useless, which makes conjures "fire and forget". You never want to keep a conjure for more than a couple of seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Frequently Suggested Solutions > > > > > The most commonly proposed solution is to revamp conjured weapon skills so that they have the ammo mechanic instead of being dropped. This can also involve the removal of the cast time, since there is no conjure that is placed for your allies to take. This is a pretty good solution that solves some of the problems that conjure skills have. It removes the clunkiness and gets rid of the annoying pickups, which are arguably the biggest problems that conjures currently have. However, with this change it would be impossible to share conjures, like it was originally intended. They would still contribute to the complexity of weaver rotations, while also holding back much needed buffs to weapon skills. This solution would also do nothing to fix all the useless skills that the conjures have and you would still fire a couple of skills and drop the conjure. Theses useless skills could be buffed as well, but the problem with that is that Anet obviously doesn't want ele DPS to become even higher, so this is unlikely to happen. > > > > > > > > > > Another solution that is proposed a lot is to turn conjures into kits. Similarly to the ammo suggestion this gets rid of the cast times and it removes the clunkiness of having to pick up second conjures. In addition, this solution makes it so that conjures can function as viable alternatives to different weapon ranges since they can always be summoned. However, once again kits would contribute the complexity of weavers rotation, but in this case they would arguably make weaver rotations even more complex than before. This would introduce a rotation complexity that has never been seen before in this game, due to weaver attunement mechanics combined with engineer kits. With these new rotations it is possible that ele weapon skills would get further nerfed, which nobody here wants. This also doesn't motivate the balance team to fix the useless skills of the conjured weapons, because that would come with a major risk of power-creeping ele DPS. The biggest issue with this is that it will likely never happen due to kits being an engineer-only niche that is supposed to make up for their lack of weapon skills. > > > > > > > > > > From the above solutions I'd obviously go with the ammo mechanic, since it seems to be the easiest to implement and with the smallest amount of risk. But even that solution does not truly satisfy me. My proposal is to completely remove all of the conjured weapon skills and replace them with a new utility skill type. The new utility skill type could be anything really. Almost anything would be better than conjures at this point. However, just like with guardian tomes that were removed and then became an elite spec 2 expansions later, the same could happen with conjured weapons. So what would a conjurer elite spec look like? I haven't determined specific traits, utilities or even the weapon. The main purpose of this post was to determine what can be done about conjures, so I've only thought about the profession mechanic so far. > > > > > > > > > > ### Conjurer Elite Specialization > > > > > There are many ways to implement conjures as a profession mechanic of an elite spec, but this is the best version that I came up with so far. This elite spec would add access to 4 conjured weapons as a profession mechanic. These would be conjured fiery greatsword, conjured frost bow, conjured lightning hammer, and conjured earth shield. Flame axe would not return since it is redundant. Only 1 conjure of each element is truly necessary. Above the F1-F4 attunements there would be arrows just like with revenant's F1 and F2 legends. These arrows would allow the conjurer to replace any given attunement with any conjured weapon outside of combat. This way the conjurer would retain 20 weapon skills, but they would get to choose to replace as many attunements as they want with conjures. Builds could be made with full conjures, or with only 1 conjure to replace that attunement that you never want to use in your build. Swapping into a conjure would be exactly the same as swapping attunements. This basically solves all the problems with conjures, except for them not serving their original purpose as support skills. However, even that could possibly be addressed. Perhaps the conjure could be pressed again while you are wielding it so you can drop a copy with a 30 second cooldown, or maybe dropping a copy of your wielded conjure could be part of a utility skill. This copy would be useless to you as you already have the conjured weapon permanently, but it could be useful to allies, especially if the skills of the conjures were better. The skills of the conjures could easily be better with an elite spec, because they **replace** weapon skills instead of adding more skills to the pool. They also cannot be used with weaver to increase DPS more. > > > > > > > > > > I welcome feedback and more suggestions for what can be done with conjures instead of these ideas. While I currently think that my idea is solid, it is possible that there are some flaws that I have not noticed. Pointing these out if you can find them would be appreciated, so I can work on this concept a bit more. Also, if anyone would like to add weapon, utility and trait ideas for a conjurer specialization, I'd love to read those ideas as well. > > > > > > > > I think removing conjures would be the best solution. Turn the interesting ones (Shortbow and Greatsword) into weapons, and give elementalists weapon swap. Then replace them by a new set of slot skills, maybe minions, splitting them from glyphs. > > > > > > > > I know it sounds pretty drastic, but I don't think there's any way to make them work properly. I hold the same idea for [all transformation/bundle slot skills](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transform), I'm fine when those transformations are part of a profession mechanic (Celestial Avatar, Reaper's Shroud, Tomes, etc) but absolutely despise them when they're slot skills (Lich Form, Rampage, etc). > > > > > > > > And yes, this includes engineer kits. I think those should be turned into a profession mechanic, replacing the tool belt. Equip two kits in F1 and F2, just like ranget pets and revenant legends. > > > > > > > > Transformation/bundle profession mechanics are fine, because they will always be there, making it easy to account for balance. Once they become something you can equip or not, the whole thing becomes a mess, which leads to said transformations/bundles being overpowered, or just terrible. There's never a middle ground. > > > > > > Ya most ppl find that conjure weapons where so badly made and updated that the best chose is to delete them and comply rework them as kits or as some type of attk much like Spirit Weapon where given massive reworks from being pets to being real skills. Keep in mine there no way ele will get the same treatment as a guardian (anet favorite son). > > > > That's an interesting solution too, most people only use conjures to cast the one useful skill and then drop them anyway. > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > I'll throw my 2 copper in. Conjures should function more like Engineer Kits. By that I mean there should not be a CD on them. Balance that out by not having a duplicate summoned. > > > > > > So no more ground targeted 1200 range conjures. Instead it just falls into your hand, and with no CDs to them you could juggle between them as well as your regular attunements. > > > > > > Just my thoughts on it, so take them for what they are worth. > > > > At that point, just turn them into weapons, and give elementalists weapon swap. > > At that point they are like Engineer kits and ele's would still be denied weapon swap. Its just my opinion that the 30s Duration and 60s CD is dumb. They would be better and more used if they functioned more like Engineer kits. Conja weapons would of always been better as a wepon swap for a given time with its old charge system. You could be in normal ele or you could have the conja wepon out. So more like a manta but with a lot more charges and a lot longer cd and maybe cast time if they ever wanted to do it right. I guess you could make other classes get a 3ed wepon swap with conja weapons if they pick one up.