Jski.6180

> @"Arcaneus.6931" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > It's difficult for any class in this game to suck at everything and ele is no exception. Especially if you're new, I'd give it a try for yourself before listening to the salt on the forums. > > I played ele to lvl 80 and leveled artificer to max. Eles lack decent long range damage. I don't really enjoy being put into the support category because I main staff. It would be nice if they gave us more long range options, like trident for example to me its the most fun to play around with. The main reason I choose ele is so I can play a long range damage dealer. > > I hate it when elites weapons on cloth classes are focused around melee range. Majority of the people I have seen opt for using melee weapons because its viable build and I do feel like I am forced to play melee because of those reasons. IMO the Elites also restrict weapon choices than add more to them. > > It would have been better if they just created weapons that can used without having to equip an elite trait. It just isn't fun to be forced into having to pick elites for weapon choices or better damage output. > > I have been playing Mage/Cloth classes in MMOs for along time now, the reason I play them is because I enjoy doing damage at long range, having so little options just kills the fun for me. I am not going to be forced into playing some weeb anime trait for better damage output to satisfy the min/maxers this game is plagued with. > > Ele is mostly a staff class OR an unkillable/cant kill tankly build. Your allways going to be left wanting for some other classes effect and build chose. Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class. Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > @"Henrik.7560" said: > > > > I hope anet realizes their mistake and we don't have to wait 6 months for the next balance update where they barely improve tempest. > > You mean wait till a year after expansion because they are too busy nerfing core Ele because of the next elite spec? I mean the improved tempest is core ele getting a tool tip update on dagger 2 air by no means is that an real update lol.

Ele tends to run into a def vs attk problem if you can live though the attk more then likely you cant hit the target hard enofe but if you can hit the target hard enofe you cant live though there attk. That is what it means to be a light armor low hp class in gw2. There simply no free riding for the ele class like say a war who gets the most of "free" hp / armor. Your best bet is to go weaver as it gets "free" hp with out giving up as much as say core ele or tempest.

> @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > You are probably confusing it with a "root soulbeast" which has some uses in zergs, but that's more of a dps build than (defensive) support. > And even root soulbeast can't hold a grain of salt to all of the cleansing and converting going on in large scale right now, those soulbeast builds exist for their coordinated pulls and damage more than roots. That might change if the big support nerf patch I keep hearing about actually becomes a reality, and then people will _really_ whine about the one-trick-pony that is Druid. > > ~ Kovu That how a lot of the "non-meta" classes work you have one major trick and or effect with a side of something else dmg or healing most of the time. The meta classes are meta because they CAN do 2 or more tricks well. That just what wvw has become you fill a roll and how well you fill that roll is how you get into groups. Druid is going to get more play after this update you may even seen root soulbeast as well.

> @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > > > > > Cant help to think that the Tempestious Aura trait now will get reworked further down the line. Maybe stab share instead of might, or quickness on aura share? Would be nice. > > > > > > > > I think that what it called toxic positivity. They went from an non use trait to a high used trait (giving it 10 target shouts) and now back to what is most likely a non use trait. Anet is actively going back on there own ideals and planes fully knowing what will happen as they have the info of what it was like before. > > > > > > > > That why i go on about bate and switch balancing of the ele class. Often anet updates an effect on ele both a buff and a nerf (most of the time the buff is stronger) but then the buff is taken away and only the nerf remains. > > > > > > You mean my post was Toxic Positivity? Or the balancing? > > > > > > Either way. What I mean is. That trait could use some overhaul now and adding a boon like quickness or some more stab uptime to Tempest would be a nice addition for elementalist. Eles need to be moved into the 2020s, in some way. A new boon could be one way. > > > > Your point of view is that something is better coming from the thing that was nerfed. It just dose not happen for the ele class. Even the buff dont go anywhere for the ele class see transmutation. Always being positivist about bad things often become a copping tool and not real forward thinking. > > What!? I express a gut feeling I got after seeing the patch notes, and you jump the gun to label it with psychology, why? Are you trying to undermine me? You have no idea of what my "point of view" is or isn't. Even better trying to sit on me by giving some kind of life lesson in "forward thinking"? I really hope it's just a misinterpretation of my post, and sorry if that's my fault. I had a feeling that the trait will get reworked further down the line. Then I added what I wanted of that rework, something that sadly was a positive change. All meant to further discuss the trait with other ele players. Didn't expect this to happen though... But by all means. Keep up the negativity. I'm out. Well the point is every one is saying this point of view over and over on these forms at one point transmutation was going to be the golden time for the ele class and it all turned out to just be one trait and nothing more. Anet has no big plane for any thing and coming from the point of view that they do means you will always be "ok" with any thing they do and nerf to the ele class. It means your an endless collaborator for any thing anet chose to do. This is what is know as toxic positivity. This is true for all of the 300 sec cd passive traits that where going to get reworked one day... as well as the hard cc effect that use to do the real dmg of the ele kit getting no updates other then a dmg nerf. Ele is full of "traits that are just turning the corner that why they where nerfed" effects and skills. Its very much an abusive relationship point of view and its not a good give and take chat with aent.

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Ranger got just a massive buff by not getting nerf its just going to get a lot worst. > > > > > > > > > > Really? We literally dodged one patch. It had to happen eventually. In the view of most players, elementalists still have more builds that are viable in large scale gameplay despite the shout nerf. (Heck, ranger shouts aren't even classified as shouts anymore.) When tempest is nerfed down to druid-levels of irrelevancy, we can have a chat. These days druids are just immob-bots, something that doesn't really stick in the scrapper-heavy meta. > > > > > > > > > > Unless you're talking about roaming, in which case yes rangers have some stupid builds -- but so do most professions. This patch didn't really touch that. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > > > edit - While not technically untrue, saying stuff like _rangers were buffed by proxy of not being nerfed_ is cynical and misleading. All of the stuff this patch addressed won't make rangers (noticeably) better at small skirmishes, nor worse at contributing more to a zerg. > > > > > > > > Duride got a massive buff from this update so yes. > > > > > > Care to elaborate on that? > > > > > > About the topic, it's simple. People play ranger as they expect a pet class to be good and/or mistakenly believe the pet will relieve some pressure and allow them to learn the game. The latter is only really true in PvE. People play thieves as they are essentially high damage glass cannons with about a million escape options. > > > > > > Neither class is particularly wanted in zerg play, and only slightly tolerated in small group play. If you are dying to a thief and weren't ganked, or dying to any ranger at all in general...you need to rethink how you play. > > > > As things stand tempest and druide where competing for a support root roll. Temepest allways had a step up on the support side as it had the ability to land 10 targets heals and clears. Now with this lost druide will be able to fill both the support roll and root roll (druide was better at rooting already). > > Druid was never competing with tempest in large scale combat, not for support and not for roots. It is subpar, not because of numbers but due to mechanics/design and that's still the same, so i doubt anything is going to change. Ancient Seeds is bad vs zergs, because you have little control over when and on whom it procs unless you never ever touch anyone, it will very rarely proc on more than one player, the roots get cleaved down fast and also only works vs targets without stab and those you might as well lock down with some hard cc. You are probably confusing it with a "root soulbeast" which has some uses in zergs, but that's more of a dps build than (defensive) support. > > > @"ASP.8093" said:What's the "correct" way to die in smallscale? > > Just don't die. Obviously :pensive: > > I stronger disagree with you.

They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in. Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

> @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > > > Cant help to think that the Tempestious Aura trait now will get reworked further down the line. Maybe stab share instead of might, or quickness on aura share? Would be nice. > > > > I think that what it called toxic positivity. They went from an non use trait to a high used trait (giving it 10 target shouts) and now back to what is most likely a non use trait. Anet is actively going back on there own ideals and planes fully knowing what will happen as they have the info of what it was like before. > > > > That why i go on about bate and switch balancing of the ele class. Often anet updates an effect on ele both a buff and a nerf (most of the time the buff is stronger) but then the buff is taken away and only the nerf remains. > > You mean my post was Toxic Positivity? Or the balancing? > > Either way. What I mean is. That trait could use some overhaul now and adding a boon like quickness or some more stab uptime to Tempest would be a nice addition for elementalist. Eles need to be moved into the 2020s, in some way. A new boon could be one way. Your point of view is that something is better coming from the thing that was nerfed. It just dose not happen for the ele class. Even the buff dont go anywhere for the ele class see transmutation. Always being positivist about bad things often become a copping tool and not real forward thinking.

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Ranger got just a massive buff by not getting nerf its just going to get a lot worst. > > > > > > Really? We literally dodged one patch. It had to happen eventually. In the view of most players, elementalists still have more builds that are viable in large scale gameplay despite the shout nerf. (Heck, ranger shouts aren't even classified as shouts anymore.) When tempest is nerfed down to druid-levels of irrelevancy, we can have a chat. These days druids are just immob-bots, something that doesn't really stick in the scrapper-heavy meta. > > > > > > Unless you're talking about roaming, in which case yes rangers have some stupid builds -- but so do most professions. This patch didn't really touch that. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > edit - While not technically untrue, saying stuff like _rangers were buffed by proxy of not being nerfed_ is cynical and misleading. All of the stuff this patch addressed won't make rangers (noticeably) better at small skirmishes, nor worse at contributing more to a zerg. > > > > Duride got a massive buff from this update so yes. > > Care to elaborate on that? > > About the topic, it's simple. People play ranger as they expect a pet class to be good and/or mistakenly believe the pet will relieve some pressure and allow them to learn the game. The latter is only really true in PvE. People play thieves as they are essentially high damage glass cannons with about a million escape options. > > Neither class is particularly wanted in zerg play, and only slightly tolerated in small group play. If you are dying to a thief and weren't ganked, or dying to any ranger at all in general...you need to rethink how you play. As things stand tempest and druide where competing for a support root roll. Temepest allways had a step up on the support side as it had the ability to land 10 targets heals and clears. Now with this lost druide will be able to fill both the support roll and root roll (druide was better at rooting already).

Another swing and miss on anet end how many times till they are called out?

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > Having skills affect 10 targets was a stupid idea to begin with. Its a shout they should high more targets then just 5 or you simply have other skill that simply support better. The ideal is to have big spells that dont apply that song effect but hit more targets vs smaller skills that only hit 5 or less but are siginfily stronger in effect. Now shouts are week support skills that only hit small numbers so they are now weaker then other support skills. More so on tempest then other classes as there no cdr effect for tempest and the 3 might is nothing for an "support" skill class. There are other 10 target skills in the game and they been 10 target for a long time.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > People here really can't complain.....**because you're still playing the class** as I said months ago : Stop playing elementalist! At this point people here are either loving the suffering that comes with the balance of this class or they simply lie to themselves. > > It's not an overly complex problem : **Stop using elementalist** , if nobody use it...they will ofc change it...as it would be pretty hard to sell a MMo product otherwise but for as long as people use the class regardless of the balance well.....I don't see anything every changing for elementalist Ya most ppl have stopped playing it. And groups have asked ppl to stop playing ele as well.

Massive rip indeed. I still think they are using bots to update there game more then humans at this point. The loop of buff nerf for the same effects over and over is getting silly. We may end up having a year (sadly year as they do not update often enofe) of each effect only to have it crushed to have another year of the other effect only to have it smashed out for the first effect agen the year after that. This is not balancing this is a form of bating actively from there player base in short burst.

> @"Lillbryschan.3281" said: > Cant help to think that the Tempestious Aura trait now will get reworked further down the line. Maybe stab share instead of might, or quickness on aura share? Would be nice. I think that what it called toxic positivity. They went from an non use trait to a high used trait (giving it 10 target shouts) and now back to what is most likely a non use trait. Anet is actively going back on there own ideals and planes fully knowing what will happen as they have the info of what it was like before. That why i go on about bate and switch balancing of the ele class. Often anet updates an effect on ele both a buff and a nerf (most of the time the buff is stronger) but then the buff is taken away and only the nerf remains.

Ele is a dead class in wvw out side of a "fun" play and this discussion being moved from the wvw forms to ele forms (to die) is a massive point that anet wants to hide the ele class and the ele players from any view of new players of gw2. Ele is the sham of anet.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > > > > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > > > > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > > > > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > > > > > > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > > > > > > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > > > > > > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis > > > > > > I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... > > > > > > All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. > > > > > > > > > > Core ele is not viable at any thing atm lol. > > > > It may of been easy vs random groups of players but in the "meta" set up of root ele vs other "meta" groups it was very hard and offten would cause more harm then good for your group. > > > > What you can do or other one player can do is not what we are talking about here as we are talking about the high number game play where one player skill dose not mader as much. An ele needs 10 targets to make the effect worth running in to land a root or your just better off running arcain wave and do it from far and over all much more harder to deal with. If all dmg skills hit just 5 targets and these dmg skills are mostly ranged what the point of ruining into a group to land a 10 target root? > > > > Your coming from a very bad mind set of 1v1 balancing and that not the game and never will be. Its a point of view that lets you be ok with any thing that dose not effect the 1v1 fights. > > Again, I haven't said anything about 1v1s. My experience is mostly in large zerg fights recently, which ele still does just fine in as a dps or support unless you can't play ele. > > Core ele picks up arcane over weaver, giving you access to similar damage with more immob. It's not ideal, but it can certainly still top the meter. Please enlighten me, how is ele doing more harm than good to your group? > > Aftershock still has 3x the immob duration of arcane and doesn't require a whole trait line to use. It still shares mag aura and protection, it's still a very strong utility to take. That you can't use it effectively speaks more to your lack of skill than a lack of balance. So... the thing is core ele only has a hand full of major dmg effect most of them are weeker because of swaping to earth to land the root. That and now the might on fire skills removes your might when you swap out of fire might generation on the fire line is nothing so you NEED to be a tempest or weaver to pull off good dmg. Core ele is in the worst shape its ever been. You realy should understand why duration dose not mean any thing in big groups but i will enplane. The point of root and any other soft cc is to land a burst dmg hit. Due to the high clear and counter soft cc in this game you cant count on a soft cc lasting any longer then in that movement of use (less then 1 sec maybe less then .1 sec). The longer duration is meaningless and if that is being put into account of the balancing of the skill aftershock then there is a massving miss understanding of balancing in gw2 from anet.

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > No one wants to spend real life money on this game any more. > > And you know this because you talked to everyone? That why gold to gems is getting worst if this was not true then the gems to gold would be getting worst.

Its not even close to meta any more. Rev out preforms it at all points.

No one wants to spend real life money on this game any more.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > > > > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > > > > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > > > > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. > > > > You should take notice of my "signature", that's coming from a world tournament winner not your average Joe so I believe there is "some" credibility to what he's saying. I am pretty sure there are plenty of very strong skills/traits for the profession you play and I am sure you'd be ready to list all the possible counterplay for all of them. > > > > I believe you play necro, not only this class hardcounter ele atm but it's also plenty strong in 1v1 scenario and devastating when supported in a teamfight...furthermore necro enjoys a healthy balance across the core class and the 2 elites...elementalist is not as lucky...and yet you are here "suggesting" that ele has stronger presence than necro? > > > > This is more personal bias than factual analysis > > I play everything but ranger. Why are you talking about 1v1? All 3 ele specs are viable right now as dps, tempest is still very much so viable as a support too. When did I say anything about ele having a stronger presence than necro?... > > All I've said is that aftershock was easy to land on 10 targets, support tempest should be able to get in melee range without problems, and that if you can't get in melee on a tempest there are a number of training wheel options to enable you. > > Core ele is not viable at any thing atm lol. It may of been easy vs random groups of players but in the "meta" set up of root ele vs other "meta" groups it was very hard and offten would cause more harm then good for your group. What you can do or other one player can do is not what we are talking about here as we are talking about the high number game play where one player skill dose not mader as much. An ele needs 10 targets to make the effect worth running in to land a root or your just better off running arcain wave and do it from far and over all much more harder to deal with. If all dmg skills hit just 5 targets and these dmg skills are mostly ranged what the point of ruining into a group to land a 10 target root? Your coming from a very bad mind set of 1v1 balancing and that not the game and never will be. Its a point of view that lets you be ok with any thing that dose not effect the 1v1 fights.

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said: > They don't hate ele, they just don't play it. They HATE the ele class as they do not even want the community of gw2 to talk about it in any room but this one but they let other classes chat about it all over the places see tempest wvw update chat. This is not a lack of understanding on anet part it is pure HATE.

At this point anet see tool tip as worthy calling a skill trait balanced. I am not sure if your going to ever seen any real updates that are needed with out a full expansion. So a real update ever 2+ years.

Wait wait why did the tempest talk in wvw channel get moved but war etc.. did not? It dose for sure make the meta more ranged you just have stealth warriros run in for a bubble and run out with out losing the counter boon reapply.

> @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Ranger got just a massive buff by not getting nerf its just going to get a lot worst. > > Really? We literally dodged one patch. It had to happen eventually. In the view of most players, elementalists still have more builds that are viable in large scale gameplay despite the shout nerf. (Heck, ranger shouts aren't even classified as shouts anymore.) When tempest is nerfed down to druid-levels of irrelevancy, we can have a chat. These days druids are just immob-bots, something that doesn't really stick in the scrapper-heavy meta. > > Unless you're talking about roaming, in which case yes rangers have some stupid builds -- but so do most professions. This patch didn't really touch that. > > ~ Kovu > > edit - While not technically untrue, saying stuff like _rangers were buffed by proxy of not being nerfed_ is cynical and misleading. All of the stuff this patch addressed won't make rangers (noticeably) better at small skirmishes, nor worse at contributing more to a zerg. Duride got a massive buff from this update so yes.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > You cant use skill during "you cant torch me". 600 with you at the center not a ground target effect like arcain wave. There was real counter play to it and it was not something you could land that well on 10 targets. Now there is no point for tempest to ever go into a fight there no reason to ever get into melee balls there just no reward for it. > > you don't need to use anything during the channel if your issue is getting locked down in melee, which shouldn't be the case on a support tempest in the first place. You can already melee dive on full glass dps toons, no reason you can't do it on a support tempest. If you're unable to do it currently on tempest, the issue is player skill or build. If the player has little positioning knowledge or skill on tempest, you have access to a plethora of escape skills: mist form, lightning flash, obsidian flesh, earth shield, earth overload, harmonious conduit, lucid singularity, stone heart, arcane shield, rebound.... > > Tempest is actually preferred for melee balls due to immob and shocking aura. idk what to tell you if you can't go into melee other than git gud =/ > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"lodjur.1284" said: > > > > > > > 10 target cap friendly skills were the dumbest thing introduced to this game since AoE caps on offensive skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also WET tempest is by far the strongest support in smallscale post february. Zerging could be done naked anyway so who cares... > > > > > > > > > > > > They did not nerf druid at all and Rev is not an support class why is tempest THE ele support class nerfed? > > > > > > > > > > Replying to the wrong person? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't think WET tempest being the strongest in smallscale is at all a bad thing. Since the reason is just that its the most well rounded support with the most consistent heals and not that it provides any blanket immunities. > > > > > > > > More talking about the 10 target cap as the shouts where less about def and more about aggsive over all this update was about remove aggsive effects then support effects and most tempest shouts where used as such. Auras and there applied effects are not that good support and now they are worst. > > > > > > > > Wvw is becoming an all boon only game play no one can be stun or rooted to land real dmg so all the dmg can come from pure burst you cant see making what dose kill players harder to deal with and less fun over all. This is the WORST way to balance this game. You know when a tempest runs on you to be ready for a aoe root shouts as its a massive risk reward but now you just have ele root 5 ppl from a skill that you cant see and from a range its just silly balancing. > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > tempest shouts were nerfed because 10 target 3s immob was too strong by a wide margin. > > > > > > > > If you let a tempest get that close to land a full 10 target root that more on you then the ele as the class is still an ele lacking a lot of effects that let ppl get in with out getting destroyed. > > > > > > > > Just a compel lack of understanding risk reward ele is the highest risk class to get in melee ranged in the game there should be a real reward for going in with that risk for the tempest class. > > > > > > Eles all have access to a 'you cant touch me but I can run away' utility. If you couldn't hit 10 targets with a 600 radius shout, thats on you champ > > > > What's the point of making professions undesirable and unfun to play? More and more people will start playing the less nerfed professions like necros atm, it's just a matter of time before the nerfs start rolling > > > > P.S What even is the point of throwing out **obsidian flesh** in every discussion involving eles? The skill is on a off hand weapon that lacks mobility and dmg and on a 50-60s CD and there are elites on a shorter CD than this skill , it's not like players can spam OF back to back within 10s span.... > > read above, obsidian flesh is far from the only escape skill available to ele. After shock has a cast time and a delay. You cant use it during a channel. Yet you can use arcain roots at a ranged and during a channel. The logic if super flawed that 10 targets where too much for the cost of use.