Jski.6180

> @"skunkstank.6128" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > > > > > @"Bleikopf.2491" said: > > > > > > However, its design is behind the current state of GW2: > > > > > > * The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point. > > > > > > * The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again. > > > > > There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank. > > > > > > > > > > Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff... > > > > > > > > Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec. > > > > > > > > Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master. > > > > > > That is not unique to ele. > > > > > > Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head. > > > > Well memer has different shatter effects eng has its F5 elite skill as for thf i do not know i know some ppl dislike the longer dodge time and well ele core gets nothing at all vs its elite spec. > > > > This IS unique to ele oddly the one class that lacks any other type of uniqueness. > > Yeah that is kind of the point of ele not to be unique but to be a jack-of-all-trades which ruines any form of uniqeness it could have. Every class is jack of all triads they have been for a long time. Oddly ele is now the least jack of all trades of all of the classes now too. You missed my point comply the core ele has nothing over tempest and its the only core class like this now after they reworked other classes and elite spec. My point is that anet is actively forgetting about the ele class at any level tempest and weaver for real reworks. I cant see this changing for any elite spec anet adds in. Its kind of over for the ele class it has been for some time. There is no hope. Every update is only proving this point.

Seeing how they treat other class talks on the WVW forms maybe Firebrand is more popular on the forms then in game lol. I think that what is going on the class is fun to think about and to talk about but no one in there right mind wants to play one they just want some one else to play one. My class is balanced because its being supported by an Firebrand mind set seems to be the overwhelming point of view of the player base AND anet. Sadly this makes Firebrand a super pigeonholed class for wvw and over all much more boring to play.

Dmg scaling seems to be all over the places in this game. It has a lot to do with boons being on and off switches for dmg and def i am not sure if that was a hax or not.

Anet needs to play every game type with every variation on each classes build (not every build but at least the glass dmg build vs the tankly build.) Having one dev play a tankly tempest or realty any class in wvw every now and then dose nothing to show the balancing of the class but the balancing of running more tankly in wvw. If any thing i think its caused the dev to think players want there classes to be more tankly in wvw so they nerfed dmg in wvw where this is NOT what the player base wants (but the only way the devs can play in wvw hehe.)

2 and i regret having the 2ed if you want to play a class only have that class geared up or lie about only have that one or you will be foced into playing meta classes / builds making the game type over all more toxic and boring for you.

> @"solemn.9608" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > >snip > > The "get gud" is what kills weaver from the meta and will always hold it back as an meta class vs the other ranged dmg classes in wvw. > > > > In a boon base meta thoughts who get the most out of the boons (classes who can be get them in normal combat as well as being able to translate boons into detect dmg boots to the other team) or who can counter the boons (classes who can strip boons or make boons less likely to be reapplied) are the meta. Ele is just not that class. > > It's not just about boons though, man. Can't tell you how many times I've fought as a pug without boons, joined the squad after the fight and seen that I still got top damage. Staff Weaver doesn't really need boons. People get tunnel vision when they talk about the WvW meta because they don't question things or desire to innovate, they just go off of what has always been known: hybrid damage/support, support, boons, strips, cleanses etc.. same old boring meta formula because we're afraid of the unknown. > > Those are just symptoms of a good meta comp in general, not the be-all-end-all meta formula. > > Add some staff weavers who know their stuff to your comps. See the improvements... It would not be called boon meta if the boons where not the massive power spike ppl where using to fight in wvw. The effects of having and not having a boon in wvw is the game atm. > @"God.2708" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > In a boon base meta thoughts who get the most out of the boons (classes who can be get them in normal combat as well as being able to translate boons into detect dmg boots to the other team) or who can counter the boons (classes who can strip boons or make boons less likely to be reapplied) are the meta. Ele is just not that class. > > It really isn't that hard to move with the squad on a weaver and get most of the boons. Sure there is a difference in how 'hard' a weaver is to play vs something like pre-nerf scourge. But that's getting technical over the definition of 'META' rather than answering the question posed by OP. > > And if quickness is your concern, I have this wonderful item that syncs really well with meteor shower: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Rage It is not a good silgi as the timing for the skill when you will use and its a time one use ever 20 sec quickness from this sigil is not worth it when other classes simply have it one button away. The power spike from this one boon alone is a make a brake for dps classes.

> @"solemn.9608" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"God.2708" said: > > > Frankly, it feels like a lot of the complaints about weaver in this topic are solved by actually putti... > > > > So weaver and ele classes over all need to stay mobile due to the low hp / low def of the class. This means its harder to support an ele because of this so you cant count on shor... > > > > That is what holding weaver and realty all eles from wvw meta this need for mobile to stay alive and mobile alone. This is partly why classes like thf also are not in the meta you cant be in the melee ball when pushing nor can you be in the range ball when kiteing. > > I don't really understand the problem. If you're an experienced staff weaver & good with your hands/video games in general it's not hard to do top deeps while mobilizing around the tag in ways that make sense and keep you alive for the most part (save for the odd bad luck, mistake etc). Staff Weaver is not a casual build. Can't play it casually and expect it to feel meta. > > It's impossible to talk about this without sounding like I'm condescending/telling everyone to git gud. This is a video game on the internet, I have absolutely no ego in this game anymore but that being said -- this is really what the issue here is. It's just a L2P issue. Staff weaver is make it or break it. It won't be meta when you're just starting out on it. It won't be meta if you don't run full glass because you'll just do suboptimal dmg with all the weaknesses of ele. You're either at 110% effort and topping the meters nearly flawlessly or you're already downed or doing no significant damage. That's just what Staff Weaver is right now (and has been for awhile). > > Think of it like a Dark Souls speed run vs a 100% dark souls _playthrough_. You can speed-run the game with minimal armour/weapons - seemingly impossible but actually _very_ possible and _very_ effective ... or you can just do a casual playthrough and get casual playthrough results. That's just what Staff Weaver is right now (and has been for awhile). > > and to the inevitable question of "why bother putting in so much effort", I donno, why do people do dark souls speedruns? It's fun for them, and some people just have really fast fingers. Why do some people play chords on acoustic guitars, and other people shred at 160bpm doing 8-string sweeps? Because it's fun and some people can do that. But imagine trying to play 8 string sweeps as a beginner guitarist using a 6-string acoustic; yeah that's not gonna feel or sound very good! Lol! Likewise staff weaver will never feel meta unless you gain a passion for it, run the correct build (full glass), mobilize at the right times, dodge at the right times, predict everything with some degree of accuracy, heal up pre-emptively when you know a buttload of retal is coming, etc .. That the thing about staff weaver if you play it right you simply cant be supported in the same way as other classes. You always have to be in the right places and acting at the right time to the point of running in-frond of the main group and being able to land your effects before the other team can get there main support out and before they can blow you up with out real def support from your team. If you play weaver right your support will never be able to keep up so your missing out on a lot of support boons other classes give to you leaving an weaver needing to self support. Like your Dark souls your not getting support from any one your on your own and you must play in such a way to be on your own AND you lose out because your on your own. This is why weaver will never be truly meta with out the same effect given to other classes like rev whom can self quickness or an necro who has build in counter dmg mitigation (unblockalbes and boon strips). The "get gud" is what kills weaver from the meta and will always hold it back as an meta class vs the other ranged dmg classes in wvw. In a boon base meta thoughts who get the most out of the boons (classes who can be get them in normal combat as well as being able to translate boons into detect dmg boots to the other team) or who can counter the boons (classes who can strip boons or make boons less likely to be reapplied) are the meta. Ele is just not that class.

> @"God.2708" said: > Frankly, it feels like a lot of the complaints about weaver in this topic are solved by actually putting weaver in a party with support. Meteor shower's channel isn't so bad when you have quickness, no? And if there's a bit of alacrity oh boy howdy. The only struggle weaver has is that it gets redundant really quickly (there's no reason to have more than 1 per 20 opponents) and that it thrives off game mode knowledge a lot more than class knowledge, as you have to interpret commander calls or zerg movements into weaver language rather than taking them at face value. So weaver and ele classes over all need to stay mobile due to the low hp / low def of the class. This means its harder to support an ele because of this so you cant count on short lasting effects like quickness from other classes. If weaver or ele had a self quickness you would have a point but because of the "one" class quickness ele has from lighting hammer conja wepon its not a real boon to count on in a real fight. That is what holding weaver and realty all eles from wvw meta this need for mobile to stay alive and mobile alone. This is partly why classes like thf also are not in the meta you cant be in the melee ball when pushing nor can you be in the range ball when kiteing. Think of it this way if necro had to stop to cast there well even for 1/2 of a sec how bad they would be as a class or if necro had ele level hp with no barriers to fall back on. If gurds had to stop for all of there stab support or even rev not being able to move when landing there cor or had low hp / armor it would comply mess up there game play and THAT is what the ele class have to live with to play there roll as a dps making them less then meta in wvw.

> @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > > > @"Bleikopf.2491" said: > > > > However, its design is behind the current state of GW2: > > > > * The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point. > > > > * The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again. > > > There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank. > > > > > > Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff... > > > > Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec. > > > > Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master. > > That is not unique to ele. > > Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head. Well memer has different shatter effects eng has its F5 elite skill as for thf i do not know i know some ppl dislike the longer dodge time and well ele core gets nothing at all vs its elite spec. This IS unique to ele oddly the one class that lacks any other type of uniqueness.

> @"Opopanax.1803" said: > > @"Bleikopf.2491" said: > > However, its design is behind the current state of GW2: > > * The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point. > > * The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again. > There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank. > > Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff... Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec. Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > Alright, how about this? You lose up to 10 stacks of might to produce flame expulsion, but gain 3 seconds of quickness. The timing is just bad even with quickness. It would be nice to get a quickness on ele for real but having it after you leave fire and after you lose might is a massive hit to dps. A lot of ele skills have bad timing for there effects after a skill use or after a dodge and in this causes after getting out of an atument makes the effects much weaker then they realty are.

Till classes are fixed for wvw with wvw in mind both over stacking and understacking of classes there no way new content will fix things.

Its a boring class truth be told if it was any weaker then it is now no one would play it. As its effect the more op supporter in the game you have group make ppl play it or live with the lost vs groups who do.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > I think they should just shuffle it around. > > If left in Master tier, it is never gonna compete with Raging Storm which is so much better. > They could swap it with Adept's One With Air and I can still see many builds not picking it, but LR builds now aren't forced to pick between "More damage" and "Alot more damage" for Master tier traits. What anet likes to do when they "shuffle" things on the trait line they tend to nerf the effect. Its not important if they move it up or down in some way they nerf it. There needs to be a hard line drawn that non used effects needs to be removed from the game or anet will only "limp" alone with updates never fixing the problem.

> @"volca.7234" said: > People who say it should be like engie kits are insane... > Engie got only 5 weapon skills that's why they get immediate access to weapon kits **BECAUSE THEY NEED IT** , Ele got 20 weapon skill more if u weaver it would be broken to get the same treatment. > My solution would be this pic i made i feel its balanced because it still favor weapon sharers, and allow you to be selfish just at the cost of longer ammo recharge > As for step 2, instead of dropping weapon if devs want to put more effort they can force action cam and make us aim for our friend target that we want to share with, that would be cool but doubt they will do it > >  > > You need to play eng more if you think the class has only 5 skills for its wepon set as i think you miss the point of eng comply. Right now ele is LOCKED to its wepon harder then say a "wepon master classs" then any thing else in gw2. Ele may not seem like it but it is the wepon master class of gw2 (most of the time you see this with war classes or melee class). If you run melee wepon you are melee and there is no other chose for you as the ele. This has a lot to do with anet error of making most of the different atument skills the same with just simply a variation of added effect burning in fire healing in water etc.. less of a atument swap and more of temp enchantment chose. Ele could of been a better class if they simply keeped the 1 to 5 skills the same name but with slightly different animations and added effects to make ele class over all more accessible to new players. But that would be less fun the player bass likes to be lied to at some level. There is a real need for ele to have kits much like eng as its locked to this wepon master type of game play but with out ANY real wepon master bounciness. Ele use to have them moving faster with daggers bigger aoe with staffs more endurance reg with scepters (oddly foces never had an effect) but all of that was removed. So now we have a wepon master class with out the befits of being a master of that wepon but still with the lock out of only being able to use that wepon.

> @"volca.7234" said: > > @"Bleikopf.2491" said: > > > @"volca.7234" said: > > It's.. pretty neat at might stacking though. > Most of your might come from outside fire sources there is only 2 fire skills that give might focus 5 and scepter3 blast, for might fire is just there for the fields > and even focus5 and scepter3 are better with this trait overall esp in a scepter3 fresh air burst > > > It contributes to overstacking. > It only overstack if you campfire which you'd prob won't do > > > The tradeoff just doesn't feel fair. Flame Expulsion isn't worth 10 stacks of might. > It safeguards you against corruption "weakness" and boon stealing "much like spellbreaker's healing skill" > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > >ele is subpar but it also has no means to stack large amounts of might for extended periods of time apart from fire fields. > And fire overload, and warhorn 4, and feel the burn, and tempestuous aria, and the weaver's super fastcombos esp with unravel, and glyphs with inscription trait etc... > you have so many ways to might up fam as any elite spec or even core > Your only getting might from one class set up of tempest in a meaningful amount of your simply a core ele who uses this and only gets might in a meaningful way in fire and ONLY in fire as you lose it when you drop out of fire atument. Ele is an off meta class and often it cant be supported in the same way other classes are due to its low hp / def making it need to be over all more evasive during combat. This means your might from other classes realy any support from other classes will simply miss making the ele class a self support only class. Its not a good trade off and its very "odd" for the ele class type to have such an effect as its a non boon control class at all points but this one. Ele is not giving up its boons to deal with other classes or to reset all boons and condis effects. Now anet has added in a give up effects for the ele class and that is fine as long as this give up effect comes with a meaningful trade off. The class already had this trade off before aura transmutation and now this give up might in its atuments it self. You have to chose to give up all your other atuments effects to be in any other given atument (not healing in fire and not burning in water) but there was a trade off that you could see and play with in mind. There simply a full lose for giving up might with Flame expulsion in its current form. You can make the argument for transmutation as well as there only one trait that effects them and the size of the aoe of the transmutation them self often nerfs there over all effect for a MAGES class whom is made to stay away from dangers targets. Fire line dose not give enofe might over all to make the new pyromancer's puissance a viable chose for dps. In a way anet has removed might from the ele class so much so that you can only get it from tempest both fire overload and might shouts both wich core ele nor weaver can do anywhere at the same level all due to the lost of might with out a BIG effect. I will also say Transmutation also dose not give off a strong enofe effect for the lost of the aura.

> @"Hesione.9412" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > I am still waiting for main crit dmg combo set they talked about years ago. > > > > They let trailblazer in the game there is NO combo that would be more broken lol. > > Trailblazer was meta before PoF came in. > > The problem more seems to be releasing stat combinations that are viable (setting aside some of the initial ones - does anything use Sentinel?) and then introducing "balance" which removes the stat combination as meta/viable. > > I have light celestial ascended gear in the bank from when celestial tempest was a meta build for wvw (depending on squad comp). Again, that was before PoF came out. Its a question of witch is better to be able to do high power dmg or tankly condi dmg. There already the worst condi tankly condi dmg in the game so why not add more in AND let ppl play the true high in power dmg as well. Skills should be balanced your gear should only amplify what that skill is doing not become the point of that skill.

> @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Higher target caps but they just nerfed 10 targets caps for most classes. DH can still hit 10 with its traps but i guess that why there are more DH. > > I don't think this will solve it > Zerg is usually a train > > You still gonna get rekt by that 70 man train. > They can hit more people too now. Its not just you hitting everybody. Now 70 every single person in the 70 man train hits everybody. > > Need to make solo and small groups more effective > > Game needs to start its SCALING process at 1 person. > Not 10 people or whatever its at now. > > Can you solo a wasteland keep lord in 2 minutes or less? > What about EoTM keeps? Can you do them solo? > > Thats why those modes are abandoned and not played much anymore. > Scaling starts at 10 people or so. > > Scaling at 1 person, means more opportunties to do things. No longer RELIANT on zerg commander OR randoms (if lucky) that think same way and work with you > > Randoms (if lucky in GW2, COMMON in ESO) that think same way and work with you, VERY COMMON in ESO. > GW2, someone sees you attempting to build siege at tower, scoffs and proceeds running to commander they are RELIANT on, because thats how its designed right now. > STACK ON THAT COMMANDER BABY > > This is ZERG vs ZERG this aint WvW, go play ESO if you want WvW. (GW2 WvW aka Zerg vs Zerg ONLY. current state) > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Higher target caps but they just nerfed 10 targets caps for most classes. DH can still hit 10 with its traps but i guess that why there are more DH. > > I don't think this will solve it > Zerg is usually a train > > You still gonna get rekt by that 70 man train. > They can hit more people too now. Its not just you hitting everybody. Now 70 every single person in the 70 man train hits everybody. > > Need to make solo and small groups more effective > > Game needs to start its SCALING process at 1 person. > Not 10 people or whatever its at now. > > Can you solo a wasteland keep lord in 2 minutes or less? > What about EoTM keeps? Can you do them solo? > > Thats why those modes are abandoned and not played much anymore. > Scaling starts at 10 people or so. > > Scaling at 1 person, means more opportunties to do things. No longer RELIANT on zerg commander OR randoms (if lucky) that think same way and work with you > > Randoms (if lucky in GW2, COMMON in ESO) that think same way and work with you, VERY COMMON in ESO. > GW2, someone sees you attempting to build siege at tower, scoffs and proceeds running to commander they are RELIANT on, because thats how its designed right now. > STACK ON THAT COMMANDER BABY > > This is ZERG vs ZERG this aint WvW, go play ESO if you want WvW. (GW2 WvW aka Zerg vs Zerg ONLY. current state) You realy dont have 70 most of the time. If you have skill that hit 10 target it lets you take out chunks of big groups with out being a major threat by the size. There even a point to make that no cap would be better as your big groups can stack and make a dmg skill that could do 20 k over time and down ppl but make the skill hit so many ppl over that time 5 each time where it now only is doing 1k per person wich is well with in the abitly for self support to deal with. Fatalism is not a good thing and make every chose and point of view pointless. GW2 wvw can be fixed like any thing else but it takes real word from anet.

I am still waiting for main crit dmg combo set they talked about years ago. They let trailblazer in the game there is NO combo that would be more broken lol.

Higher target caps but they just nerfed 10 targets caps for most classes. DH can still hit 10 with its traps but i guess that why there are more DH.

The main thing holding weaver back from being true meta for dps is that most of its dule skills are projectiles. They are able to be both blocked and reflected by counter projectiles. There just simply a lot of it in wvw making a lot of these slow moving skills worthless or even danger for your team. Like using Shock Wave and rooting your team because of a reflection.

KITS! It would fix the class at all points as there too much lock melee and ranged with out wepon swaps on the ele class.

> @"SlitheSlivier.1908" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"LadyHawk.5319" said: > > > ... meanwhile, the scourge huddles in the dark corner, watching everything out of the corner of their eyes, and sinisterly grins .... > > > > Wait wait wait... are you saying a SUPPORT class scourge should be doing the same dmg as a weaver left alone a rev? I think that is where the balancing problem mind set is right now and is the very def of why things are messed up as much as they are. > > Ive never seen that be the case in large scale fights. Don't worry. They do well on single/low target counts or when pugs are clouding and you can only hit 1 at a time. They still have wells so... there will never be a time where necro any thing cant to large scale fights.

> @"WindBlade.8749" said: > Stormsoul is what make the ele good in Fractals, without it, you can say goodbye to ele in CMs, so no.... ele already got deleted from wvw, don't delete it from another gamemode, if you want to delete an usless trait, inscription and lighting rod are here for you. 10% dmg not that massive to remove you from pve how often do you cc a mob vs having +12% crit dmg when you have fury up?

Dont play ele. The only guide i can help you with for the ele class its never worth the risk reward to play the class in wvw.