Jski.6180

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? Maybe your confused with my suggestion? Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start (something that it has now but tempest also has making it sadly non unique mechanic) but you need to give it an added effect on-top of that and that would be letting atument trait lines have full effect one of the major balancing factors other core class have over there elite spec. I am not talking about moving heaven and earth here i do not think anet will or can do such complex ideal to truly make core ele equal to its elite spec but you can put core ele on part with other core classes and there elite spec with small but significantly changes.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele.

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > It needs to stop coving over movement speed effects. The endless means of immunity to cripal and chill is not good for the game. > > It doesn't cover over them. The superspeed buff itself boosts mobility to the in-combat movespeed cap by brute force due to how much it provides. > We don't actually see the effects a true 100% bonus would have because OOC is capped at what swiftness offers and the in-combat movespeed maximum is just a lower number threshold. > > Only way to make it less potent is hit the numbers, and I completely agree with OP that speed rune is also utterly broken and provides way too much for how easy it is to get permanent swiftness. > > Swiftness - or the 33% number it provides such as traited SotL and the likes, should be the best you can get for pure landspeed. > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > Guess who this will hurt the most? > > > > Hint: its not the zerg. > > Good. The disparity in smallscale that this effect and RoS produces is honestly way bigger than in zerg play where so much harass happens at range, anyways. Any build lacking a ton of mobility and swiftness uptime is absolutely crippled in viability as it stands because of these effects being so prominent in-combat. Does not grant any movement speed increase while backpedaling or strafing. Only provides the 100% increase to movement speed while in combat. Outside of combat it provides the same 33% increase to movement speed as Swiftness. Makes target ignore chill and cripple movement slowing effects. Superspeed does not stack duration and new application will remove the old one even if it is longer duration. Affects Siege Golem in World vs World. From wiki.

It needs to stop coving over movement speed effects. The endless means of immunity to cripal and chill is not good for the game.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > > I'll say it again, the nature of a classses weapons skills does not make it a class mechanic. That's just the style of it's weapon skills. > > > > > > It seemed to be more than enough of a mechanic pre HoT for elementalist to stand at the top. > > > > > > All in all, more than asking whether the profession have a mechanic or not, this is a very long thread about whether or not core elementalist need to be powercrept in order to stand up to it's e-specs. > > > - The thing with _tempest_ is that the devs were kind enough to give the players the choice to use overload or not, making some players confused about whether or not there is a drawback. Good grief there is since tempest traits tend to encourage the player to actually use it's overload and thus lengthen it's stay within an attunment, indirectly weakening quite a few core traits that rely on frequent attunment swaping. > > > - Weaver also have obvious drawbacks; Having all attunments sharing a 4s cool down drastically change the mechanic compared to core elementalist. Not even talking about the reduced flexibility due to the fact that swaping attunment is delayed for your off-hand skillset. > > > > > > Considering those points, I think it's fair to say that core elementalist's mechanic is unique enough to not need additional effects piled up on top of it. Maybe core elementalist is lacking balance wise, but that's another topic alltogether. > > > > ok, fair. But the inability of buffing core ele without buffing it's elite specs is near impossible because there is no actual tradeoff in accessability to core ele's skills or abilities or what have you. > > That's true, but I don't see why that's a concern though. > > That statement also assumes Anet needs a way to buff ele without affecting especs at the same time. I don't think that's a good assumption either. I mean, we haven't seen much evidence from Anet in the history of game changes that suggests they won't make a change to core if it affects especs or vice versa ... so where does that assumption you are making come from? > I mean core gurd is not bad due to its different set of F1-5 and there is a lot of room for it to update the class with out making DH and FB op (keep in mind gurd is there love child so it gets every thing first). You can kind of say the same for necro and mez even eng (all though just an f5 only is not that massive). That why ppl say core ele is lacking any thing of its own. When a tempest can just simply chose not to play as a tempest or went a weaver can simply chose to not play as a weaver (with a skill mind you). I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). That alone will not "fix" the problem but it would help by letting core ele get the effect of all of its atument all of the time (must like other core classes can where they can have 3 core classes trait lines working all of the time and not just during a state of the player has in that moment) would go a long way to making core ele a full class that it has lost after balance updates for tempest and weaver. This is a hidden balance for ele that not too many ppl talk about where atument lines do less out side of there given atument but other classes can get the full benefit of there core class trait line all of the time. I am just asking to carry that over to the core ele class but NOT tempest and weaver and what ever comes from EoD. An example it would be like wars ARMS mostly working when you have a sword but out side of holding a sword the ARMS trait line would only be 1/2 as effect. (keep in mind i do not know war just looking at it that it seems to be the "sword" line but it gives you effects outside of sword being your wepon chose.)

Well it seems pointless to keep responding to that. Any core ele needs its own class mechanic so it can be balanced with in its elite spec. As long as the elite spec. simply get what ever the core class gets there is no way the core class can realty get buffed with out simply making the elite spec. a better chose. Think of it like a kind of red queen rule (its not the best way of using it but i think it fits) as long as core ele gets a +1 the elite spec gets a +1. When core ele gets a -1 the elite spec get a -1. If the elite spec get a +1 core ele gets +0. This would of been ok if anet did not nerf core ele to fix the elite spec over preforming but that is where we are now and maybe we will see the same thing for the other eleit spec to come. So the ideal is to give core ele its own thing that is lost when using an elite spec. Most of the core classes have something that there elite spec. (not all of them but the "best" core classes have them on some level). All core classes should come with something that there elite spec. do not have it is the only way to fix the current balancing of the game or your always going to have something over nerfed or over powered making every thing more complex then needed. I personally like the suggestion giving core ele its minor traits for atuments lines all of the time. I would also like to see the "doable when in atument effect" to always be on. This will not effect weaver dps at all nor will it make tempest support better (it will also not effect the EoD eleit spec too). If its too strong then it can be pulled back some but i realty do not see how this will make core ele stronger then weaver or tempest out side of letting it play more of an general roll as what core classes should.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > But it is and you do not want ppl to talk about it at all or realty any thing. > > > > > > OP was VERY clear what the topic of the thread is. This isn't up for debate that the topic is simply about OP claiming Ele not having a class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > It is though about core ele vs weaver vs tempest they even name this in there post about pve and doing dps. > > Ele not having some level of DPS isn't a problem and if it is, it's not necessarily fixed by 'giving' ele a class mechanic ... because they already have one. > > Again, your post is an example of the dishonesty here ... saying something not true to justify something you want. This whole thread is just a ruse to get more DPS on Ele. > But it dose have a dps problem as core ele dose less dps then tempest and weaver odds are less dps then what ever else is coming up. This cant be fix all due to no class mechanic.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > OK it's bad ... but swapping elements is STILL a class mechanic. This isn't up for debate. Any argument otherwise is absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's that bad and you don't like it ... hey, class choices, you got em. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well like i said earlier, what constitutes as a fully fledged out professon mechanic for EVERY other class is not present on ele. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, you can have that opinion. Clearly, it's not relevant to how the game works though. I mean, I'm just going to go back to my original point; if class mechanics are dissatisfying to you from a gameplay perspective, why aren't you choosing a different class? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's relevent enough for the developers to make the change for core revenant so I would disagree. > > > > > > See, this is the problem ... ele HAS a class mechanic so the premise it doesn't have a class mechanic to justify ANYTHING a person wants to suggest to change the class is just wrong. It's wrong. > > > > > > I get you think that the class mechanic is terrible ... but it exists. So if you want to make a thread that core ele class mechanic is garbage and needs to be fixed, that's awesome ... because it's not a lie. > > > > > > > > > > You are saying nothing every thing you are posting is to stop ppl from talking about things. > > I'm just asking people to base their class change suggestions on things that are true. No your not your just shooting down ideals and thoughts in a means to stop ppl from coming up with there own ideals.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > OK it's bad ... but swapping elements is STILL a class mechanic. This isn't up for debate. Any argument otherwise is absurd. > > > > > > > > > > If it's that bad and you don't like it ... hey, class choices, you got em. > > > > > > > > Well like i said earlier, what constitutes as a fully fledged out professon mechanic for EVERY other class is not present on ele. > > > > > > I mean, you can have that opinion. Clearly, it's not relevant to how the game works though. I mean, I'm just going to go back to my original point; if class mechanics are dissatisfying to you from a gameplay perspective, why aren't you choosing a different class? > > > > > > > > > > It's relevent enough for the developers to make the change for core revenant so I would disagree. > > See, this is the problem ... ele HAS a class mechanic so the premise it doesn't have a class mechanic to justify ANYTHING a person wants to suggest to change the class is just wrong. It's wrong. > > I get you think that the class mechanic is terrible ... but it exists. So if you want to make a thread that core ele class mechanic is garbage and needs to be fixed, that's awesome ... because it's not a lie. > > You are saying nothing every thing you are posting is to stop ppl from talking about things.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > But it is and you do not want ppl to talk about it at all or realty any thing. > > OP was VERY clear what the topic of the thread is. This isn't up for debate that the topic is simply about OP claiming Ele not having a class mechanic. > > It is though about core ele vs weaver vs tempest they even name this in there post about pve and doing dps. There suggestion is about core ele getting something more and how with out any thing done ele core has "Ele has no real profession mechanic meaning." If you cant see that your just trying to suppress ppl from saying bad things about ele. Is anet paying you any thing? You realty should come clean if they are.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > That is for sure what you did i am not sure how you see you self here. > > > > > > > > > > No, I did NOT tell someone to switch class because they suggested something. That is NOT the reason I said that. That's just your disaster of a misinterpretation of what I said. > > > > > > > > > > > That is balance for core ele if you buff ANY thing on core ele you buff tempest and weaver > > > > > > > > > > The complaint was NOT about balance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sry but WHAT did you think of there suggestion for adding to core ele then? > > > > > > I already answered that ... please try and follow the thread and read my posts if you want to have a discussion with me. > > > > > > > You dont think its a balance issues and you seem not to want to talk about it at all. > > because the topic of the thread isn't balance. Unlike you, I don't stray from the topics of people's threads to rant about whatever I want. But it is and you do not want ppl to talk about it at all or realty any thing. Is anet paying you for PR?

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > That is for sure what you did i am not sure how you see you self here. > > > > > > No, I did NOT tell someone to switch class because they suggested something. That is NOT the reason I said that. That's just your disaster of a misinterpretation of what I said. > > > > > > > That is balance for core ele if you buff ANY thing on core ele you buff tempest and weaver > > > > > > The complaint was NOT about balance. > > > > > > > I am sry but WHAT did you think of there suggestion for adding to core ele then? > > I already answered that ... please try and follow the thread and read my posts if you want to have a discussion with me. > You dont think its a balance issues and you seem not to want to talk about it at all. I realty do not know what you stand for with the ele class. As i said before you seems to just want ppl not to question anet at all and just live with it. Join that cult. Also its super hard to talk to more then one person at the same time on these forms i suggest not going full on with it.

> @"javier.9786" said: > I think there are a lot of ways to fix the heavy, medium and light armor diference other than armor value diferences. > > For example: you can add some game related buff to the armor like 2 stacs of stability for heavy. Vigor, swiftness or might for light, medium armor with a middle point between heavy and light. > Maybe some number bonus like vitality for heavy and power, condi damage, healing, precision and/or ferocity for light armor, and again, some middle point for medium armor. > You can think about how it feels diferent when you wear light vs heavy clothes and try to bring that feel to the game throw numbers and buffs > > If you gonna make something about this issue, please, make something that make you feel rewarded (not punished like it is right now) about being forced to use a certain armor type. > > Other thing you can do is allow every class in the game use every type of armor. Sadly that not the way the game works heavy medium and light armor all act the same way for every thing they just simply have more or less def the same thing could be said for hp amounts. The only real fix would just have them give all the same def and open up skins for all classes.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > That is for sure what you did i am not sure how you see you self here. > > No, I did NOT tell someone to switch class because they suggested something. That is NOT the reason I said that. That's just your disaster of a misinterpretation of what I said. > > > That is balance for core ele if you buff ANY thing on core ele you buff tempest and weaver > > The complaint was NOT about balance. > I am sry but WHAT did you think of there suggestion for adding to core ele then? Also this IS about balance of core ele vs its elite spec. right now core ele is lacking and its only getting worst with each update for the elite spec.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. > > > > > > > > > > Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > Its logic > > > > > > > > > > Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. > > > > > > > > > > Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. > > > > > > > > Right that the point of making it its a joke at the person expenses who are not able to do what they want to do. > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... you can do what you want based on the criteria you have used to make choices. If your criteria are too restrictive, you need to reconsider them. Anet can't make the game cater to individual ideas for how the game works. > > > > > > See, the big problem here is that lots of people don't have a problem choosing ele and teaming and being successful. So the rhetoric you are making here about ele needing change because 'balance' is just one big _not true_ story you've invented to justify ele buffs. You're just not being honest in how player choice affects people playing how they want. You're also not being honest if you think that a buff to the class mechanic will make the class more desirable for people to team with. Anet can't make the game so that EVERYTHING you want conforms to your criteria and how you want to play OR who people want to team with. This is EXACTLY the reason we have all these options to choose from in the first place. > > > > > > > My view is to stick with something not to find something else. > > > > > > Right ... so if your primary criteria for choosing a class is 'to stick with it' ... then that's more important to you than anything else. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix for you. We've already covered this so clearly you're just ignoring me. That's OK, because saying things that aren't true or irrelevant doesn't change how choice affects player game satisfaction and neither does ignoring the truth of that statement. > > > > > > > so you must work with others and by doing so you MUST provide value to them. This cut your ability to play as you want. > > > > > > That's _not true_. If you team with people that tell you to bring a certain category or level of value ... that's a CHOICE you made; you have GIVEN UP playing how you want to get into that team. > > > > > > Funny, you don't have a problem making all these bad choices that negatively affect how you play ... but when someone suggests making good choices for yourself, you have massive issues with that. This is the dishonesty I'm talking about. You argue that you don't want to experience negative things ... then turn around and make choices where you expose yourself to them. > > > > So wait its ok to come to an class form and tell some one to play another class because of a suggestion? > > That's not an honest assessment. I'm not telling anyone to play another class because of a suggestion they are making. That's nonsense. > > > Your not dealing with the point of what anet had to do to core ele to bring balance to tempest and weaver > > That's true, I'm not, because the thread isn't about balance. The OP is VERY clear about what this thread is about: > > _This is mainly a complaint about core ele, as tempest has overloads and weaver skills 3 are on par with other classes skills (aka real skills), so the specializations have mechanics._ > > That's not about balance ... his complaint is LITERALLY that ele doesn't have a mechanic. That's not true ... and you have grasped onto that untruth to make this thread your soapbox to complain about ele balance because of changes over time you don't like. It certainly doesn't help that on top of all that, you continually make untrue statements to proceed in dishonest, perpetual argument. > > That is for sure what you did i am not sure how you see you self here. That is balance for core ele if you buff ANY thing on core ele you buff tempest and weaver but if they need to nerf any thing on tempest and weaver they need to and mostly have nerfed core ele. With out its own mechanic core ele will always get nerfed over and over which it has for the last 5 years. Lets say something silly is added in a elite spec that burns on weakness. If that elite spec has only a few weakness effect its never going to be that op so it can be a strong burn BUT because of lighting rod a core ele effect it can be a very op effect. So we could see anet nerf lighting rod over the new elite spec (as they want to promote that eleit spec). Now we have a weaker lighting rod for core ele and a balanced lighting rod for the elite spec. Core ele only loses from this and get nothing. Even if anet gave core ele something during this it would still be a stronger prostive for the elite spec then the core ele over all. That why it NEEDS its own effect that only core ele can get or your balance for the classes will always be a full on nerf vs what the elite spec get. I been on this soapbox for 6? years now i am not getting off of it any time soon. This is where i stand for the ele class and mostly for the core ele.

DH and FB get different F1-5 effects that SOME WHAT of an tradeoff but a very week on. I have always been of the mind that elite spec should lose a wepon equal to the one they get and a utility line equal to the one they get. The lack of a real trade off for all elite spec hold balancing back by a lot for both the core and the elite spec them self.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. > > > > > > Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > > > > > > > Its logic > > > > > > Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > > > > > > > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. > > > > > > Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. > > > > Right that the point of making it its a joke at the person expenses who are not able to do what they want to do. > > That's _not true_ ... you can do what you want based on the criteria you have used to make choices. If your criteria are too restrictive, you need to reconsider them. Anet can't make the game cater to individual ideas for how the game works. > > See, the big problem here is that lots of people don't have a problem choosing ele and teaming and being successful. So the rhetoric you are making here about ele needing change because 'balance' is just one big _not true_ story you've invented to justify ele buffs. You're just not being honest in how player choice affects people playing how they want. You're also not being honest if you think that a buff to the class mechanic will make the class more desirable for people to team with. Anet can't make the game so that EVERYTHING you want conforms to your criteria and how you want to play OR who people want to team with. This is EXACTLY the reason we have all these options to choose from in the first place. > > > My view is to stick with something not to find something else. > > Right ... so if your primary criteria for choosing a class is 'to stick with it' ... then that's more important to you than anything else. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix for you. We've already covered this so clearly you're just ignoring me. That's OK, because saying things that aren't true or irrelevant doesn't change how choice affects player game satisfaction and neither does ignoring the truth of that statement. > > > so you must work with others and by doing so you MUST provide value to them. This cut your ability to play as you want. > > That's _not true_. If you team with people that tell you to bring a certain category or level of value ... that's a CHOICE you made; you have GIVEN UP playing how you want to get into that team. > > Funny, you don't have a problem making all these bad choices that negatively affect how you play ... but when someone suggests making good choices for yourself, you have massive issues with that. This is the dishonesty I'm talking about. You argue that you don't want to experience negative things ... then turn around and make choices where you expose yourself to them. So wait its ok to come to an class form and tell some one to play another class because of a suggestion? Your not dealing with the point of what anet had to do to core ele to bring balance to tempest and weaver its not like core ele was giving ppl too much earth auras but they still nerfed the duration of it core ele was not doing too much dmg vs npc but they nerf staff hard. If core ele never get its own mechanic then it will always get nerf not because of what core ele is doing but because of what its elite spec are doing that very least you must admit.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. > > Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > > > Its logic > > Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > > > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. > > Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. Right that the point of making it its a joke at the person expenses who are not able to do what they want to do. Ele players who want ele to be better cant realy do any thing about it out side posting on these forms its up to anet. By asking them to just play another class your telling them you have no chose in how the class is balanced and its up to anet alone so get over it. The logic is if your willing to just jump to another class then you endlessly posting here talking on my points of view in very much the same point of view i am holding to and saying is ok and your saying is not ok. My view is to stick with something not to find something else. Asking some one to move on to another class is the opposite of what your doing here. Sadly you cant do every thing solo in this game so you must work with others and by doing so you MUST provide value to them. This cut your ability to play as you want.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > > > > You went after the op. > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > > > > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. > > > > > > ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. That kind of thinking is absurd. > > > > > > > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. > > > > > > Right ... but saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > > > > > > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked them to play another class... for ele player is that realty a bad thing to suggest to them. > > No, that's not a bad suggestion. That's the INTENTION behind giving players options to choose from. > > > I am not saying it need to be the meta but that it can fit some what into what ppl want. > > And you don't speak for the whole playerbase when you say ele doesn't fit somewhat into what people want. It's _not true_ to claim ele doesn't give some of the people what they want to enjoy the game. It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. But i live in reality and i understand space limitation for all game types. Its logic. I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > > You went after the op. > > > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. > > ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. That kind of thinking is absurd. > > > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. > > Right ... but saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. > > No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. > > > > > > You asked them to play another class... for ele player is that realty a bad thing to suggest to them. I am not saying it need to be the meta but that it can fit some what into what ppl want. Like being 10% of the dmg vs (max min) 14% (just examples). Yes the 4% is important but not so much to stop ppl from content but the amount of distances between core ele and weaver dps even tempest dps is much bigger to where you cant run core ele with groups. This is true for support roll as well. The big problem is every thing your going to add to core ele to fix this will buff weaver and tempest making it an endless problem (red queen in a way but not comply) so you need to have core ele its very own mechanic that can be buffed or nerf with out effect its elite spec. This is not just true for ele but true for all of the classes. The classes who have split of effects from there core to there elite spec are better balanced and you do see there core classes often as they have there own effect.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > You went after the op. > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. Yes there always going to be max min players but you still can push out something in that environment that is not min max but if you cant even do that there is something wrong. Its not about being the best class with best numbers but its being able to show up at a reasonable level and core ele simply dose not.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. You went after the op. Mechanic like swapping a wepon on say war but most ppl would not call that an class only mechanic when the elite spec have it as well. The point that i keep making core ele is in a bad places and will always be in a bad place because it lost its only mechanic to the elite spec. and it cant be fixed till it has its own effect. We may get another elite spec in EoD and we may see core ele get nerf hard because of it like they did for HoT and PoF. This is just wrong to do for the class and ppl who play it and can never truly be fixed. When ppl have such a wrong point of view on things it is important to point out why. Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2. This is not a chose issues this is a balance and mechanic issues any thing beyond that point of view is a detraction from what anet is doing and nothing more.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > > > > > > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... > > > > > > OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. > > > > > > >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. > > > > > > I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. > > > > > > > > > > But your amusing your point of view is the player base these forms are NOT the over all player base or we would have more post per day and realty this is one of the least places where ppl go. Anet is sadly not the player base and over all they do not seem to interact with there player base in any meaningful way now. > > This has nothing to do with the topic: _irrelevant_ > > > > If you tell some one to play another class because of there suggestion on something you are looking down on them a lot. > > This is _not true_; I've explained why several times. I'm _not_ telling someone to go play another class because they made a suggestion. > > > > By no means will i comment on other post in a meaningful way as i am talking to one person at a time not to the 3 or so ppl who post on these forms. > > Good, because frankly, we shouldn't have to continually filter _not true_ or _irrelevant_ statements to have a discussion. > > > > But i must say most of your guys points of views seem to be base off the ideal that as long as you can use an elite spec you should and some how that is not p2w is borderline madness. Core ele is lacking and it was made lacking because of the elite spec. and how anet did not make the elite spec give up any thing meaningful. So every nerf to staff weaver is a hard nerf to core ele staff. Any support nerf to auras during is a hard nerf to core ele. > > Again, that's _irrelevant_ speculation. I get you want to paint this picture that especs are evil p2w things, but it's STILL not a reason to buff ele. > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base so i had to point out the very importance fact the forms are not the player base of gw2 at this point lol. It is your the attker here i am the defer sry. Telling some one to play another class IS the worst thing to tell to an ele player. So if you update core ele in any way you effect the elite spec because every thing ele core has as a class the elite spec get. So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. This is what all of this was about.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... > > OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. > > >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. > > I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. > > But your amusing your point of view is the player base these forms are NOT the over all player base or we would have more post per day and realty this is one of the least places where ppl go. Anet is sadly not the player base and over all they do not seem to interact with there player base in any meaningful way now. If you tell some one to play another class because of there suggestion on something you are looking down on them a lot. By no means will i comment on other post in a meaningful way as i am talking to one person at a time not to the 3 or so ppl who post on these forms. But i must say most of your guys points of views seem to be base off the ideal that as long as you can use an elite spec you should and some how that is not p2w is borderline madness. Core ele is lacking and it was made lacking because of the elite spec. and how anet did not make the elite spec give up any thing meaningful. So every nerf to staff weaver is a hard nerf to core ele staff. Any support nerf to auras during is a hard nerf to core ele.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. What we say often is what we are if you go after what i am saying in such a way you are calling me in such a way. I am part of that player base and i know what i know and i am free to point this out as well as others. Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet.