Astralporing.1957

> @"Mortifera.6138" said: > The obvious solution is to make PoF maps more rewarding... but that would require a sub fee. ? Why? It's not like making HoT maps more rewarding required sub fee, so i don't see why PoF would be different.

> @"Mortifera.6138" said: > > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > > > Nothing wrong in wanting story? True, but why is it required to enter new map? I couldn't care less about WvW/PvP but the story is trash. I have no intrest in listening to NPCs vapid one-liners and the endless comic reliefs, and the "witty banter" replacing basically everything in the story. After all, there is nothing left but "witty banter". Yes, when i play games, i want gameplay. Big shock, i'm sure. > > I hope you never play one of those other MMOs, then. Guild Wars 2 is story-lite. Yeah, FF XIV, for example, locks _everything_ behind story. And you can't skip parts of the story like you can do in GW2. Want to do the most recent alliance raid instance? Sure, but you need to do the whole A Realm Reborn storyline, 2.x patches, level 50 alliance raid (crystal tower) storyline, Heavensward storyline, 3.x patches, Stormblood storyline, 4.x patches, and Shadowbringers storyline. And then you can start the Yorha questline and do the Copied factory alliance raid. And a few more quests after it. And only _then_ you will be allowed to enter the Puppet's Bunker. Easy, right? At the same time, in gw2, all you need is to have the specific expansion bought, go to aerodrome and enter correct portal. So, sure, GW2 locks a lot behind a story.

Notice, though, that you _don't_ need the tome for scrolls to work - it just saves inventory space.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > @"Astralporing.1957" See, now some people are stuck discussing if the tiering system is the same or not instead of discussing if it's even needed in the game in the first place. People were stuck on those points from the very beginning, instead of concentrating on specifics about what one would want a higher tier for. The only time i remember such a discussion had some sense was when people were debating on adding some qol options to the next tier - and this goal has already been realized by legendary rune introduction. I have been trying to change the direction of the discussion, but you're right that it seems it's mostly pointless. People are so invested into justifying why a new tier needs to be introduced that they don't seem to have time to consider what that tier might offer > @"kharmin.7683" said: > I'm too casual to understand perhaps. There is no significant difference between ascended and legendary gear, right? If that's so, then what purpose would ascended runes/sigils serve since there exists legendary ones? Sorry if I'm ignorant here. Yes, that's the point. People keep asking for a next tier, but almost noone says (or even considers) what this new tier should offer (and why might we want it) - and **that** is the key issue here. Adding a new tier for the simple purpose of adding a tier doesn't sound to me like a compelling argument at all.

> @"Swagger.1459" said: > Well, actually, there is indeed an “exotic” tier to both runes and sigils... > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune > > “Minor runes have no minimum level and have two bonuses, listed as (1) and (2). > > Major runes require armor at level 39 or above and provide four bonuses, (1) – (4). > > Superior runes can be applied to armor at level 60 or above and include six bonuses, (1) – (6). > > Legendary Runes have the power to take on the properties of any other rune” > > > And... > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil > > “Minor sigils have no minimum level. > > Major sigils require a level 39 weapon or above. > > Superior sigils require a level 60 weapon or above. > > Legendary Sigils have the power to take on the properties of any other sigil” > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Quality > > So yes, the item quality/rarity of “Exotic” does exist for runes and sigils, and the item quality/rarity of “Ascended” is missing for both runes and sigils. > > Ty! Ttyl! Yes, precisely, thank you. As you have just illustrated here, contrary to your claim, runes are **not** classified according to the gear tiers (basic, fine, masterwork, rare, exotic, ascended), but have their own tiering system (minor, major, superior). Moreover, unlike the gear tier system, which is open, and easily allows for adding new tiers on top of already existing ones, rune tiering system is a closed one (because, seeing as you have only 6 rune slots you can use at the same time, 6-rune set is the best you can have). Adding anything above Superior tier would require either reworking the whole rune system, or a change in paradigm between tiers. As they exist now, runes have no conceptual space whatsoever for adding any higher tiers. So, again, it's not like "ascended tier" is missing here. There's simply no space for it at all within the confines of the current system.

Considering how lackluster normal bounty rewards are, and that elegy mosaics are limited to legendary bounties only, it's not surprising.

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"BadHealer.3608" said: > > You can sell the legendary weapon in 5 seconds. So I do not understand your problem. > > They’re selling it to make a profit and not just to get rid of it. There’s a large difference from instant sell vs a sell listing. Yes, but that's a core issue behind why this question is hard to answer. Because the answer is "it depends on specific legendary and on the price".

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > That said, I don't see how it changes anything :no_mouth: It changes things, because we're not debating specific suggestions but seem to be stuck on debating existence of some mythical tier that a lot of people think should exist "just because", without any justification for it. OP started this thread with the question why that "purple tier" for runes/sigils was not introduced _yet_. With the silent assumption that it was obvious it should be introduced, and that lack of it is somehow an omission that should be fixed. That assumption is wrong. Unlike with gear (where you can keep increasing stats till infinity, and adding new tiers is relatively easy, as long as you are okay with powe creep) the rune/gear system was designed around a specific number of tiers, and so adding to it is not trivial. And it's definitely not something that is "obvious" or supposed to happen. There is no "opportunity" for adding a tier. At the same time OP didn't present any suggestion of what adding that tier would mean. There have been other suggestions how to expand the rune system since then, but for the most part those have already been covered by Legendary tier. specifically, i am arguing against this kind of reasoning: > @"Orpheal.8263" said: > Runes follow exactly the same tier system, as like all other equipment, so its just logical, that also upgrades should have in their final form ascended quality versions We should not start with this kind of "logic", because it is based on assumption that is completely wrong. What we can do (if we want) is to present an idea about how rune system can be expanded, and debate this idea. But if we do that, we should be debating the suggestion based on its own merits alone. We should not be using the "ascended" argument as if it's worth anything - because it _isn't_. TL/DR version: "lack" of an ascended/purple tier is not an argument for introducing it, because the current system is designed in such a way that there's **no** lack of any tier. If someone suggests a new tier, then an argument for it would be it offfering something that would be considered _valuable enough to justify introducing it_. Mere introduction of another tier is _not_ such a justification. And having this tier be colored purple is even less of an argument than that.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Just MAYBE the answer to the OP's question is that Anet boxed themselves OUT of a solution for Ascended Runes and Sigils. > > That assumes that there should be an ascended version in the first place. My point was that, since ascended are something from normal gear progression, which runes/sigils _do not_ use, there needs not be a "solution" for ascended runes/sigils at all. > > So you don't think there is a 4th teir of runes/sigils because 'wording'? Um, OK. Maybe. I would think wording isn't really that significant a hang up if Anet were to add that 4th teir between exotic and legendary. Again, there's no "exotic" tier. It's not just a matter of wording, it's the whole tiering system for runes/sigils working differently than the one for gear. Where the gear has 6 tiers (plus Legendary), the runes/sigils have 3 tiers (plus legendary). You can't just draw any comparison between those based on the fact that some tiers have the same colors assigned. The whole tiering system is completely different. I mean, if you specifically want some runesets that are stronger than superior, then say so, but claiming there should be an ascended tier just because gear has one is an argument that is based on either conscious misdirection, or complete lack of understanding of differences between those systems.

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > Just MAYBE the answer to the OP's question is that Anet boxed themselves OUT of a solution for Ascended Runes and Sigils. That assumes that there should be an ascended version in the first place. My point was that, since ascended are something from normal gear progression, which runes/sigils _do not_ use, there needs not be a "solution" for ascended runes/sigils at all. I mean, there are _no_ exotic, rare or masterwork runes. Nor there are any basic or fine ones. The only common tier is the legendary one, which isn't really a tier at all, but more like a QoL/Vanity variation of the normal top tier (which, for runes/sigils is Superior). As such, there's no reason whatsoever for ascended runes. Well, beyond a desire for powercreep, of course.

Basically, the solution for this (and not only for this) would be wardrobe loadouts, with an option of using a "random loadout".

> @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > All this ascended and legendary stuff has been added, so I'm confused as to why runes and sigils have been stuck at the exotic level? > > Let's ask a different question. WHAT would be the step up from exotic to ascended runes/sigils? No, let's clarify something again first - runes/sigils are _not_ "stuck at the exotic level", because they don't use the gear tier levels at all. The real question is whether there should be anything in between **Superior** and Legendary.

> @"Joote.4081" said: > Yep. If they updated the graphics and performance which must be easy as the DX12 mod already does this It doesn't. First, it does _not_ update the graphics in any way. Second, the performance improvements are a bit of a mixed bag - the improvements are on a case-by case basis, and are very dependant on your system (on some rigs it can actually result in _worse_ performance). Third, it is not stable enough - even now, after many, many updates, it still very much can _make your game crash_ (or result in glitchy display). And that is a massive demerit - something that may be tolerated in a third party program, but is completely unacceptable in an official product. > then the game would probably draw in 10 times the player base. I honestly doubt that. For most players graphics engine is far on the list of deciding factors for MMORPG. It's almost never something that makes or breaks a game, unless it is in a far, far worse state than it is in GW2. >As it is most people will load up GW3, take one look at it and uninstall without even trying it out. > The game has everything most players want, everything is in place and it's a massive game, but this keeping the graphics back in the 18th centaury isn't going to cut it. Actually, as far as the graphics go, in an MMORPG market it still looks quite good. And engine efficiency is not something that one will see after "taking one look", unless they are playing on a potato, in which case it will be the same for every other MMORPG with decent graphics.

> @"Donutdude.9582" said: > > @"Caro.2730" said: > > BUT what if I'd like to wear what Anise wears? It's not like I want to dress like Queen Jennah. Fashion Wars demands it! > > There is only one Master Exemplar ;) Sure, but it's not really a master exemplar uniform. It's just how Anise decided to dress up. And the "exemplar attire" is not how exemplars are supposed to dress either. There are _no_ "official" exemplar/master exemplar attires, because those roles are supposed to be _secret_. Thus, having specific design of wear attached to the rank, and worn when in public role, would be a weird choice.

There's a reason why i play a game where PvE and PvP are clearly separated. I definitely would not want for this to change.

> @"maddoctor.2738" said: > I'm sure they can't "spare" any resources to do a job similar to the one a simple modder is doing. Not like Anet doesn't already have an engine team (consisting of multiple people if I may add) right? They don't need to hire anyone or "allocate resources", they already have the resources, they are just misusing them. You don't know whether they are misusing them, because you don't know what exactly they are working on. Hint: we do know they actually _are_ working on engine optimization since even before HoT. There were many cases in the past when they have informed us about the result of that work even. It's just that "dx rework" sounds more impressive (even if we don;t know if it would actually have any better results than what they chose to work on). So, considering that you are not (as far as i know) someone that has - experience in working on a game engine - knowledge of GW2 engine - knowledge of what GW2 engine devs were actually working on, and why - knowledge of the effort required to do what they did vs the effort required to do a dx rework - knowledge of what their work did for the game vs what the dx rework would do I'd say that you really should not immediately start accusing them of misusing the resources. Not unless you have some inside knowledge you haven't shared with us. Optimization problems do not have to be caused by lack of competence of their developers. Nor do they need to be a result of a planned management policy. It can be as easily a result of something so simple as a lack of resources to do a major engine revamp project (and thus being limited only to making changes by the way of constant, but individually small tweaks). So far it seems it is exactly how their engine team operates - they do make changes, it's just that those are relatively small when taken individually, and thus don;t have comparable PR to something like dx rework. Even if those changes together might have had a comparable effect (which they might have - we don't really know). Ironically, saying all that, i need to admit that i do actually agree with you about misusing the resources and problems being caused at management level. It's just i am quite sure we're not talking about the same things here. If anyone remembers, when we saw the game during its first open beta events, it was completely unoptimized and was running practically purely on CPU. We've been told then that the engine optimization was something they left for last step before launch. And, during the last beta, they mentioned they were starting to work on it. Then, few days later, we were informed that the launch is what? Two weeks away? (i don't remember exactly, but it was something like that). The game got rushed to launch early (possibly due to certain pandas), and, as such, they had to play catch up with engine optimization on a game that was already running. And it was something that took them a lot of time - they were still doing it when HoT came. With HoT they did some upgrading to the engine - upgrading that almost certainly needed its own optimization. Then HoT was released before they finished doing all the stuff. Remember, how initially first raid wing and all gen 2 legendaries were supposed to be released alongside the expansion, but ultimately got delayed? I wouldn't be surprised if the engine optimization for HoT was also supposed to be done as the last step - and suffered for that. Then we got repeat of this with PoF. Imo, part of the problem we're dealing with now is the consequence of that initial early game launch (that made it so the engine, even in its orginal, old version, was never really optimized in the first place). The second part is probably because at no point in the game's history they had both time and resources to do a more major engine revamp project. All they could do is make small fixes and hope it will hold. Or, to be more precise, at the point when they _had_ those resources, they decided to sink them into non-gw2related projects that ultimately capsized. All this definitely can be called a misuse of resources, and something caused by management decisions. Still, i'm quite sure it was _not_ the same kind of "misuse" and "orders from above" you had in mind.

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said: > Just a reminder that some games have an option to switch between different dx versions. Like POE which was released year later by (at the time) a indie company. How come small company could keep improving the game, performance and so on yet AAA title is stuck with dx9 in 2020, in fact 2021 (4 months away)? Perhaps it was exactly because it was indie company (and the engine was simpler, and thus easier to rework). Who knows. And switching between different dx versions may be indeed possible, but it would not be the dx version that would leave older rig players in the dust. It would be higher hardware requirements that would go along with the necessary rework.

> @"Donutdude.9582" said: > In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the product. The key is in the naming. It is not called "Countess Anise's Attire" but "Exemplar Attire". Whilst the description references the Countess' clothing, it does not explicitly state that it is a like-for-like copy. No, it states that _this is the very attire Countess Anise wears_. Which, clearly, is simply not true. > > For me, it would make sense for the outfit to be different from the Countess' outfit. She is the _Master Exemplar_, indicating that it is a rank _above_ Exemplar so subtle differences in clothing is natural. Then the desciption should not try to pass it as something Countess wears.

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Sure, why not. At the same time i'd guess OW should get its own legendary armor, and a source of ascended gear as good as magnetites are. > > Sure. And naturally raids will get 2 sets of unique legendary weapons, fair trade :) Okay, you win. Let's agree on OW getting the envoy set, not an unique one, and with Raiders being able to buy OW-specific gen 1/2 legendary weapon components with LI.

> @"Spook.5847" said: > I am very familiar with the MMO genre, having played them since the original EQ over 26 years ago. In this case, the "content" is WvW. I should not have to gain the opportunity to work to earn my rewards ONLY by being forced to participate in the school play. Then i have a good news for you: you don't have to. Most tracks are not locked behind LS content, and a number of them are even WvW-specific, with WvW being the only way to obtain rewards from them - even for PvE players.

Sure, why not. At the same time i'd guess OW should get its own legendary armor, and a source of ascended gear as good as magnetites are.

> @"Hoover.6394" said: > are the dragon ball annual count for this? The anwer was two posts above yours.

> @"Mortifera.6138" said: > It makes perfect sense. Why would people do achievements if the reasons for it aren't worthwhile? That's what I wanted to know. Perhaps they disagree with you on what is worthwhile.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Ah yes, but those veteran players in the LFG in a world without KPs, are known by their names and from word of mouth of who is good, not from KPs. They had to go in several games with several people and prove they were good with their actual performance, not KPs. <- This way a player who does get a chance to prove himself and show he is good, can do so in a single night which will spread word of mouth, rather than it requiring years of grinding KPs. That works only in an extremely small community where everyone knows everyone else. Such a community would have been even smaller than what it is now. And yes, such a community would not use KPs, because there would be no point for them. They still would not "give a chance" to unknown new players in LFG unless there was literally noone else to pick from. > With a KP system, that good player will be ignored because he has very few KPs or none at all. And even if he is accepted into 1 group, he still has no KPs to show for a different group or to an LFG community. In a game without KPs of any kind, players would begin to lean again on word of mouth recommendation and memory, which is a much truer form of KPs, so to say. No, they would not, because the need to prefilter people you don't know would remain. Remember, that KPs apply only to players you _don't_ know - if you do know someone, you don't bother asking them about their qualifications, because those are already known to you. And no, in a world without KP, you will have no more chances to become known to others than you have now. > > **The problem here is that taking KPs for granted and placing all judgement in it and only that, replaces any & all rational common sense past it.** > That's because there's no better method that will rationally let you prefilter players _before_ you start doing the instance. If there was a batter method, it would have been already put to use. Oh wait, there is indeed a better one, the "rational and common sense" approach, that works exactly as you described. It's just applied to guild groups and statics only, it's not really applicable to LFG, where most players you meet are completely unknown to you. > What I am saying is that for general casual raid participation through LFG, where people get a chance to prove themselves and find each other, it would be better for KPs to disappear entirely. That would only push most of the veterans that are still running LFGs into desperately trying to find a guild/static and avoid LFG completely. That's the point you are missing: players do all they can in order to avoid the risk of being grouped with bad players. That desire would not disappear with KPs gone - it would only cause those players to think of other method to do that. In short: LFG is **not** a place where "people get a chance to prove themselves". It's a place where people look for players that have already proven themselves. If they won't be able to do that in LFG, they will go looking for them somewhere else. > For the slight annoyance it would cause the elites who already mostly recognize each other, to have to give people a chance again, which the elites represent a very very small % of the GW2 community, it would make the major bulk of the community interested enough to come back and try again. No. Major bulk of the community is not interested in the content _because they do not find the content to be interesting_. Not because veterans are using KPs. > > For those elites who STILL are not understanding what I am saying about this problem, imagine this: > > **Remember back to a time when you were relatively new to raids, but you knew that you were good. You knew that you were good enough to watch any video guide and very quickly adapt & learn any new raid thrown at you. You knew that if a squad gave you a chance, you wouldn't disappoint them. Back in those days you barely had any KP at all. I have never been in such a situation, to be honest. By the time i have felt so sure of myself, i've already had a ton of KPs. And i found out that the people that think they are good enough for raiding that they should be given a chance even though they have no KPs (and experience) yet almost always overestimate themselves, and turn out to be far less prepared for raids than they thought they were. > Now imagine yourself now with many KPs, in here defending KPs in this thread while telling me that I am wrong. Imagine yourself now as an ultimate peak level veteran, who had to put an LFG post with what would be considered a moderate to high expectation of KP today. Now imagine yourself again as when you were new and you knew you were good but had no KPs to show. Imagine that you look at that high KP LFG post made by your future self and realize that you aren't going to let yourself into the group because you don't have enough KPs. Oh, i would not let my past self with no KP into group because i **do** know exactly how "good" i was then. I was the very exact player i don't want to see in a group now. The difference between you and me is that i didn't assume i was good enough for LFG then (i _knew_ i wasn't), and had to try going at it the hard way, in a fully inexperienced group, training from zero to the top (and utilizing the help of veteran friends to show me the ropes when i could and they had the time). > Imagine that segregation & judgement being based on a KP number instead of knowing someone. And seriously ask yourself: Reeeeeally how much better are you now, than you were back then?** Far, far better, to a degree i would not even believe then. And i still would not call myself "good" at all. As far as raiders go i'm probably at best mediocre, low to mid tier at best. Hint: i have known a number of players that were actually truly good enough to start raiding from the get go. All of them managed to get into raiding within a very short timeframe from attemtping it for the first time, and KPs were not a problem for them at all - because for anyone truly talented there's hundreds ways of circumventing that barrier. It's possible to get past it even now. And even without that much talent it's still possible with enough dedication (or sometimes even on the basis of high level at socializing alone). People that get stopped by that barrier are those that are lacking in at least one of those categories (often two, or all three of them). And people like that would not become raiders anyway.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Yes it would. For every reason I already stated. I already explained how it differentiates between 2s and 3s, through raw natural organic evaluation, in the same way I would judge if guys were good or bad at basketball, only after I showed up on a court and played with them. This way everyone gets a chance to at least play. That works for a basketball team (in GW2 terms: a guild), where they can train and evaluate their members before a match. You can bet that if there was an LFG version of basketball, and that it was being played for real stakes, and not just for fun, most veterans would not be doing "evaluation through play" either, and only allow proven players to team with them. In fact, that's how it always worked in games we used to play as kids as well - the new kids were picked for teams only after all the "good players" (as well as friends and family) were already chosen. And those games were theoretically purely for fun, with no stakes associated with winning or losing beyond "mere" bragging rights. > > Some of you guys are still missing the point here. I'm not stating that this is a better system. I am stating that it would increase raid participation rates. It would not. It's not the lack of training that causes those low rates. It's caused by, on one side, most players having _no desire_ to train as much as it is necessary to clear this content, and, on the other side, by too low release rates (or, for some, content being too easy). Basically, content is already meant for a small number of players, and on top of it it's not supported enough to satisfy even that small community. > I'm stating that current population & participation rates are so low because players are waiting waaaay too long in line before getting to take a ride, and this is because of KPs. And my take on it is that you assign too much importance to KPs. They are not a cause, but merely a byproduct of the core issue. "Dealing" with KPs in any way is not going to remove the reason why they appeared in the first place. > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Psykewne.3025" said: > > You can't change people's behaviour, no matter what barriers you remove > > Are you sure though? In a way, yes. You can't change people's behaviour, unless you remove the _reason_ behind that behaviour. You can't make people not use KPs (or other forms of prefiltering, in case you would take KPs away) unless you remove the reason for why they want to prefilter in the first place. People want to play this content alongside other players that _are good enough to clear the content with_. Thus, prefiltering. The only way to get rid of that desire to ascertain other players will be good enough is to ensure that _all_ the players will be good enough. Which can be done only through either limiting access to the content only to the players that pass certain bar (so, basically, the game doing prefiltering for the players), or by lowering the difficulty of the content to the level where prefiltering is no longer important. Concenrating on KPs, or on veterans "not training new players enough" is just window dressing. It may look nice to someone looking at the situation from the outside, without really understanding the underlying issues, but it's just for show, and accomplishes nothing truly important to the issue at hand.