Shroud.2307

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Shroud.2307" said: > > Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't? > > > > You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular. > > Obviously, it's always a matter of point of view but where does the disrespect start? When someone enter a group that look for a different profession or when a group refuse a profession based on prejudice? From my point of view it's disrespect only to narrowminded people, for broadminded people it's an opportunity to learn that there is more than what the rigid meta let you see. Experienced players can teach and can be taught, this is how you make progress. Refusing to teach or to be taught is how you end up roting. You're not allowed to wear shoes in my house. But I can show you the benefits of wearing shoes in the house. Then do it at your own house. But I want to show _you._ I understand the frustration of being excluded from groups just for the class you play, I've experienced it personally, but trying to force people to open their minds is like a Jehovah's Witness coming to your door. People are entitled to exclude you if they want because you have equal freedom to do the same. It would be different if as a Necro you were unable to start your own groups or to form a group, but that isn't the case. I just want to go on record and say that I always play what I find most fun. I don't care what the meta is. But if I'm not wanted in a group for what I'm playing, be it PvE, PvP or WvW, I will respect that not because I understand how my class/build fails to bring value to their group, but because of courtesy.

> @"silent killer.5732" said: > Man I've been helping people left and right from t1 to t4 who's struggling in any sort of fractals runs and there's the meta heads who thinks only a certain class can work and certain class can not be nothing but a player who wants to lay and pray to be carried. > My necro can go cdps pdps and hsc all at full capacity and I found myself carrying the party I'm in even though I mostly join parties who asked specifically a certain class not a necro. > I feel like the community needs to be little bit educated about what the necro can offer > They all think the necro is only good for pulling and surviving and aoe with epidemic Why are you joining parties that are specifically asking that you don't? You're not teaching anyone anything by disrespecting their requests. It's ignorant and borderline griefing. Start your own party and tell people you'll teach them how good Necro can be. I'll bet it'll be real popular.

If yall can't hit anything with it, it's not the Hammer that's bad. Keep singing that song of woes and why me's though, I'm sure it'll help. 99% of you on the Rene bandwagon cuz anything that uses more than 2 brain cells is too much effort. Bet.

> @"Buran.3796" said: > > @"Shroud.2307" said: > > > Shortbow and Mace can both work, so I'm not saying they're useless or won't do damage. Hammer is just flat out better for the spike and range it provides even if compared to Shortbow its DPS may be a bit less _(which I'm not certain of. Hammer may actually still be more)._ I don't think Mace is even a question unless you're full Condi and the zerg you're against is bad enough to let your Condi's tick. > > You think that an enemy zerg able to cleanse conditions can't see the telegraphed 1.75" cast of Drop the Hammer? Also, Phase Smash: one thing was spamming CoR when actually did damage and didn't cancel itself when you move beyond 30º while the animation, and another entirely diferent animal is try to land hammer #3 once each 12 seconds while the enemy farts aegis. And I'm not saying that the short bow is great (I think that there's better classes and weapons for the pirate ship meta), I'm just saying that currently the hammer feels to me as wielding 5 useless skill slots, at every game mode, with no exceptions. I've never experienced Phase Smash being blocked by every player when hitting a group of players. Maybe one or a few, but not all. 9 times out of 10 it will hit all of them, especially if I'm using Shiro instead of Jalis _(which brings less utility, but still has value)_ because I'll often use CoR and Phase Smash with Impossible Odds for the boost. I'm not disagreeing that Hammer isn't great. After all the nerfs it has gotten it is nothing compared to what it used to be, but it's still BIS for zerging and still capable of doing huge damage. The increased cooldown on CoR really hurt it because randomly using it or Phase Smash outside of a bomb is often a waste. Before you could use it more freely so long as you were aiming it properly. Now you may miss the opportunity to create a bomb because the cooldown is higher and you don't have any filler skills. You're basically left to spam reflectable autos and occasional Phase Smashes. With all the nerfs to CoR I think it would be fine to reduce the cooldown again to like, 5 or 6 seconds. It's a lot less reliable and does a lot less damage than it used to _(but it still does plenty of damage, don't get me wrong)_ so I don't think giving it back its old cooldown would be an issue.

> @"Buran.3796" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > Hammer will be used until it is removed from the game : > > 1. Because it is the longest ranged Power based weapon. > > 2. Revenants have literally nothing else which can match it for its intended use of Ranged Power damage. > > > > Some people might go like "durr but Shortbow" but durrr Shortbow doesn't even come close to Hammer when it comes to zoning range and striking power for POWER damage. > > Disagree. In a train chain melee group, both mace and short bow are stronger, because mace is way faster and cleaves better, and shortbow with the piercing trait and brutality is way more effective than any cc from the hammer. And in a ranged group, chances are that you'll be running a Necro if you want AoE damage, not a hot garbage hammer Revenant. Also, if you're ganked while trying to reach your zerg and one of your weapons is a hammer, you're dead (even if ganked by an enemy healer; that kitten can't 1 v 1). Hammer is a joke at every game content (as much as it hurts: I started maining Guardian in 2012 with gs + hammer and swapped to Rev with hammer + sword & shield in HoT, and is depressing to look at the state of both hammers in both classes in 2020) . Shortbow is not going to spike for 10k+ damage in a single hit. It may have better DPS, but its only cleaving skill _(not including the #5 CC)_ is multi-hit meaning many times players won't be taking all that damage before they move. Mace is a short range melee weapon with moderate Power scaling. Even full glass it isn't going to do as much damage as... Well, I think every other weapon? If you're going to frontline melee with a bad melee weapon then all you're doing is giving some Boons, most of which can be provided by other classes. The purpose of Hammer Herald is ranged spike damage. It drops its' heavy hitters on clumps of players _(ideally when you use Hammer 5)_ when your group has locked them down. Shortbow and Mace can both work, so I'm not saying they're useless or won't do damage. Hammer is just flat out better for the spike and range it provides even if compared to Shortbow its DPS may be a bit less _(which I'm not certain of. Hammer may actually still be more)._ I don't think Mace is even a question unless you're full Condi and the zerg you're against is bad enough to let your Condi's tick.

> @"SunTzu.4513" said: > Another point is that a lot of necro players are just not good at playing the class. I notice this as well. Speaking from a PvP/WvW perspective, I encounter _far_ less Necros that actually know how to play the class in comparison to _literally every other class._ Necro, along with Warrior and Ranger, have the lowest skill floors. They're easy to pick up and do well with without learning much about the actual class, and against average players, to succeed with minimal effort. They can be played at a high skill level as can any other class, but these 3 in particular are very forgiving and/or simplistic for beginners. For that reason I think many people won't bother learning how to play the class at a higher skill level because the basics will often get them by. I'm not educated enough in general PvE, Raids, or high level Fractals to say how difficult Necro is in those areas, but because Necro has been unwanted and/or suboptimal for most of the games' life, I believe that's another reason many that play Necro in PvE won't bother to improve with it. With that said, a good Necro is usually pretty scary. Having as much Boonhate as it does, combined with high health and potential for heavy AOE pressure, experienced Necros make a huge difference in groups and can be very difficult to fight in 1 on 1's. Personally I feel that Necro is on the higher end of the skill ceiling _(albeit not the highest, I'd say that honor goes to Thief and Engineer)_ because it's so easy to tell a good Necro from a bad one. There are so many quirks and details that can make all the difference if you know how to take advantage of them, and so many ways to counter skills both pre-emptive and reactive.

You can still do things with a small group, it's just that there's a lot more effort involved and a lot less reward _(unless it's the challenge that rewards you)._ Many changes over the years, primarily that of passive upgrades and Mounts, have made small scale/solo game play a lot more difficult, but none of the changes made have made it impossible. The problem is that if you want to accomplish anything you need to be very knowledgeable and patient, which means for anyone who's new to doing this it will be extremely punishing and generally unenjoyable. Most people will conclude that playing without a large group isn't worth the hassle and thus the already small community of roamers/havoc groups continue to shrink. If you want to do things with a small group you just need to accept that the effort/reward ratio is heavily slanted toward effort, and if you don't know what you're doing there will be no reward.

> @"Jilora.9524" said: > That is you getting punished for engaging 1 v 3 then 1 v 5 and any class w/o stealth doesn't have that huge bailout. So they add this easy avoidable mechanic to hinder you or you would die get caught even less. You basically are complaining your kill death ratio drops from 50-1 to 40-1 and you have to be aware of your surroundings for an npc that might turn a 1 v 3 fight disregarding the fact that you fight all day 1 v 3 and get kills and run off all day and we can't do anything but waste our time and that's cool but dying once in a while to you isn't. Omg, fking _thank you._ I been saying this, lmao. I do agree with people that Watch Tower could use a rework, and I understand how it can be unenjoyable for a Thief to have to play around it... But having a basic sense of awareness is all you need to avoid it. You know, what everyone else needs to have if they don't want to get +1'd at a bad time.

Lmao, I stand by my comment. And I still play core too :P. Loved that intro. Not sure how I feel about Carrion, but it gives me some ideas for a WvW build. Good stuff, I enjoyed!

Borderland Hills is also my favorite spot to do this. If you jump far enough sometimes you can pull people from the cliff opposite the keep.

I may have spoken too soon. Seems I didn't give the build enough of an honest try because I had a lot more success with it recently. As I'd said in the OP, you basically have to play it as core Engineer until the right time to burst presents itself. I found the best percentage of Heat to be at before combat is 90% as it is enough to get off a Corona Burst and/or Holographic Shockwave before Overheating which you can follow up with Jump Shot. If you combine Jump Shot, Corona Burst's second attack, and the Overheat all in one it will be a multi-hit of well over 30k. There may be better ways to build it for better damage, but I think what I've made offers enough utility to consider it an actual _(non-meme)_ build. I'm going to keep playing with this for a while to see what it can do because as of right now I feel it has a lot of potential. If anyone else has played/is playing something similar please chime in with your experiences and thoughts. I'm really enjoying this and would like to brain storm with others.

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > Let's just ignore entire traitline, as well as stealth attacks like backstab and utilities and pretend stealth is not thief mechanic. Show me another class that has entire traitline and mechanics that are focused on stealth. What, none? Yeah. Thought so. > > "Stealth is a tool that Thief has an abundance of to compensate for its low base HP and low access to blocks and invulnerability. It isn't needed for a Thief to survive or to fight, it just improves their ability to do so" - you just contradicted yourself withing 2 sentences. Did you even read what you wrote? So it is ok that thief has way lower chance to survive due to debuff but other classes don't suffer from it? Interesting. > > Stealth attack is not only reason why you want stealth. As you stated yourself, thief does nearly no invulnerability or blocks. If i wanted to survive some hard hitting attack or combo on guard i would just use block or invul heal - i cannot do it on thief. I have to sit in stealth to mitigate that damage. Also, you forget that ini regen and health regen is also bound to stealth. > > If you are so bothered by 1 shot thieves then stealth is not issue but rather between chair and monitor. I can do one shot on a lot of classes, just need to build for just as much as thief does. Really. Once again, you guys run zerg builds and complain that you die to thief builds built around solo roaming. That is like bringing pvp build to raid and complaining that you get kicked for doing nearly no damage. Nope, it ain't. Engi, Mesmer, and Ranger have had access to Stealth for just as long as Thief. Crazy that Thief has so many mechanics though, almost like they have other ways to survive. "Way lower" is not what I said. You are projecting. Yes it's okay, because it has the mobility to escape being Marked at a seconds' notice. Literally no one else is going to want to, or in most cases be able to, fight right in front of objective gates or while Marked for more than a few seconds because they'll get overwhelmed by +1's. Thief on the other hand can choose to leave when ever it pleases with few things that can stop it. Mobility and Stealth are things that make Thief a favored roaming class because it has the ability to choose when/where it wants to fight over the vast majority of things it will encounter. You may not camp Stealth and wait for the right time to engage while Marked, but you still have the option to disengage until you're out of Marked range. > All Marked does to Thieves is force them to play by the same rules as the rest of the classes- don't get Marked unless you have enough back up to deal with what responds to it. Stealth does not mitigate damage or regenerate health. These are things that Shadow Arts provides, a tree heavily geared toward survival. It is not mandatory and is not the only thing that provides defensive options. It cushions your game play by allowing you to sit in Stealth when you've made a mistake or if you want to avoid a fight, the latter of which can be done with mobility. I'm not bothered by Thieves at all. Most threads complaining about them I defend them and I'm probably one of the few who isn't bothered by Deadeye. Marked is a different story however because I'm sick of Thieves acting like it only effects _them_ when it actually it effects everyone. No one wants to fight while Marked because it's too easy to get overwhelmed while you're visible on the map but Thief doesn't need to care about this. It has the mobility to get away if it needs to so it can overstay its welcome. You can ignore your surroundings and play like a complete ignoramus because you can just Stealth and run away if you got too greedy.

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. > > > > > > > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL > > > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage > > > > > > > > I have played rogue in wow, also above 2200 rating in arena and rbgs. WoW rogues were miles stronger than thieves in GW2. Rogues in wow could stunlock you to death and had actual teleports that worked and not GW2 version of "hey let's use long Cds or entire ini just get no valid path message". On top of it they had absolute long lasting evades and condi immunity which thief could only dream about. I spent a lot of time jumping into whole mob of enemies (high rated at that), murder someone quickly and get away. Every time. Unthinkable in GW2 even with suicide thief. You guys really don't know how good you have it with thief in this game compared to WoW and some other games. > > > > > > This 100%^ > > > I could only imagine the qq's if the thief in gw2 was designed similar to nightblade in eso, rogue in wow, ninja in bdo or dark runner in AAU lol. I donno something about gw2 attracts players that qq about everything that beats them a few times. There are no better players in gw2 just op builds so eventually every good build on every class gets gutted with 0 compensation leading to a game with all crappy dumbed down builds and playstyle and the few thst slip through the cracks that yr become fotm choice lol. > > > > You do get that this thread was a QQ by a thief and agreed with mostly by other thieves who also are qq'ing about it right? Not to say gw2 players don't qq about thieves or everything in general. > > Well, point is this debuff locks out the class out of their main mechanic. People justify it with thief having supposedly too much stealth and bring in other games (which is stupid at best, imo). > I personally would love if just for 1 day mesmers would be locked out of clones, guards out of heals/blocks, necros out of life force etc. by this this debuff in WvW. Maybe then people would understand the issue. Once again, the community should really blame themselves for having so many thieves ruining their roaming experience - you guys are the one who kick thieves from zergs thus forcing them into roaming solo existence. Some thieves switched to something zerg friendly, other perfected their roaming builds and skills. There are plenty of classes and builds that can easily deal with builds BUT most people don't run them because they prefer to zerg. And then they complain about thieves. Find the error here. You guys are so thick you don't understand that Stealth is not Thief's mechanic. It's Steal and Initiative. Stealth is a tool that Thief has an abundance of to compensate for its low base HP and low access to blocks and invulnerability. It isn't needed for a Thief to survive or to fight, it just improves their ability to do so. Marked also does not completely negate Stealth, it just limits the time you can be in it. There is enough time to land Stealth attacks while Marked so you really aren't locked out of anything. All Marked does to Thieves in particular is force them to not Stealth stack/camp and wait to one shot spike people which is something no one enjoys experiencing. It does not prevent Thieves from using Stealth attacks and it does not completely disallow them from Stealthing all together, it just limits the time they can camp it. If you want to compare Marked to how it effects Stealth you should be saying Marked does not allow Barrier because that is not a class specific mechanic but rather something two of them are dependent on and many others have access to. In this case however it would be a lot more harsh on a Scourge because they already lack mobility so this would literally take all form of defense from them.

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > @"Shroud.2307" said: > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > > Can we have watchtower and the revealed/mark debuff affect something from every classes trait/mechanic and call it a day? :) > > > > Alright, that means Thief doesn't get to use Steal while Marked then. Because that's their class mechanic, not Stealth. > > Cool, that means necro can't use shroud xd So Scourge then

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > Can we have watchtower and the revealed/mark debuff affect something from every classes trait/mechanic and call it a day? :) Alright, that means Thief doesn't get to use Steal while Marked then. Because that's their class mechanic, not Stealth.

* Mijo is my personal favorite. Although he no longer streams, and seemingly no longer uploads to Youtube, I've seen him play live and he is often in other streamer's matches _(like Boyce, Sindrener, Azza, etc.)_ where you can see him in action. I rarely see other Necros doing things I can't do myself, but Mijo manages to pull things off that make the class look like something else entirely. **I don't think he is objectively the best Necro** but I do think he is one of the most impressive ones. [ PvP division: Legendary + rank 3 winner] * Holts is another very good Necro and long time content creator + streamer. Although I feel he is a little less "flashy", he is undoubtedly very skilled and one of the most frequent and articulate Reaper players. [ PvP division: Legendary ] * Hobo is a multi-classer and former Necro main. I don't know if he still considers himself a Necro main, but he does still play it, and plays it very well. He is extremely good at area denial, something I find a lot of Necros fail to do properly, and knows the optimal times to be defensive or aggressive. [ PvP division: unknown _(my best guess would be Platinum 2/3)_ ] * Wingmon Cherry is a member of [rawr], [Zen], and the Necro that Sindrener considers the best _(as he has said more than once in his streams)._ I _think_ he streams, but I don't know his channel, and he doesn't seem to have a Youtube. But having seen him play both with and against Sindrener, I certainly agree that he is very good. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any first person play so I can't really tell. I just take Sind's word for it because he is very knowledgeable and skilled himself, so I don't doubt that Wing is extremely good. [ PvP division: Legendary + rank 1 winner ] I think calling anyone the "best" at any class isn't a totally fair thing to say. Everyone brings something a little different to their class and some people are more consistent than others. There are absolutely players that could be considered better than others, but it gets to a point where the skill ceiling can't climb much higher and it starts becoming more about their decision making and what they bring as a teammate. As has also been said already by @"KrHome.1920" many content creators cherry pick their content to make themselves look better than they are.

Acolyte of Malice This is my hybrid Mace/Sword build that I've been using for some time now. A little bit about the build; * Low base Condition Damage but plenty high once a fight gets going. Most times you'll be between 1k and 1.5k which is more than enough for your Conditions to do some serious damage. You also have Yearning Empowerment and the runes which will give you 20% Condition Duration. * Because the auto attacks on Mace are so quick you can very rapidly build Torment while also spiking people with high Power damage. Mace/Sword combo together very well and there are a lot of good set ups you can do. The one I most commonly use is- Shackling Wave-> Searing Fissure-> Legend Swap for Invoking Torment proc-> Echoing Eruption-> Death Strike. * This build is all about aggression. You can stack a lot of Conditions quickly while still pressuring with Power damage, but you lose the evade from Unrelenting Assault and need to auto attack spam a little more frequently. Because it has base armor this also means you will need to be cautious about trading hits and will not have the defensive utility of Sword 3. Making people panic is what it is best at. You only have moderate damage on engage but will ramp up very quickly. You also have enough area pressure to force people in to expending defensive skills early. Just remember to boost your autos with Impossible Odds as often as you can and keep people stacked with Conditions so you can surprise them with Power spikes. I literally never see anyone using Mace/Sword yet it feels so natural. Axe is a great hybrid weapon and I understand why it is the preferred pick, but with this particular set up I think Sword is objectively better. It has higher spike damage and a better Shadow Step that also grants Fury. It compliments Mace very nicely by allowing you to lock people down and stay in their faces where as Axe is more about a single hit Condition + Power spike that requires a set range. I find it to handle all build types very well for some of the reasons I've outlined. It has so much hybrid pressure, area denial, and chase potential that often times people just straight up panic. Although it does suffer the usual weakness to Conditions that a Sword/Sword Herald might, it tends to also force said Condition builds in to being more defensive which means they won't be pressuring _you_ as much. As long as you stay aggressive most things won't be able to handle you.

> @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said: > > > > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades. > > > > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth. > > > > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. > > > > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;) > > > > > > Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding. > > > > Why is it that when ever there's a discussion about Stealth it's either- Stealth doesn't help to survive at all, everything can still hit you so it's useless! Or, Stealth is the only defense Thief has! > > > > Mind you, I suppose now that they can't run away as readily as before, the second argument is a bit more relevant. > > > > And as @"Gorani.7205" said, > > > if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. > > > > No one's forcing you to fight there. So don't, lol. > > > > Also I'm glad someone agrees with my perspective on it @"Gorani.7205" > > Thats the entire point,you know how large the radius is from those towers that takes away a large area where a thief doesnt wanna fight,where everyone else has no issue fighting in those spots because it doesnt hurt their core gameplay. > > I mean overall, i dont give a kitten because i know thief inside out since im playing it for years,i avoid fighting in those areas. Still doesnt take away the fact thats aimed to shut down 2 specs mainly,thief/mesm. I just think its an unfair mechanic. If aegis/invulns would be negated in those areas people would cry. Boon rips/corrupts exist, as do Unblockables which are aplenty. And those things can be used anywhere. I understand that Watch Tower is a crappy mechanic, and I hate it probably as much as you. I just plain disagree when Thieves complain about it _(and it seems to only ever be Thieves)_ because Stealth is not their only defense and Marked does not only effect them. As I'd said in my other comment, I have played Thief and recently did. Being Marked was never an issue for me because I didn't play a Shadow Arts build or Deadeye, I played Critical Strikes/Deadly Arts/Trickery with Marauder/Valkyrie. The only time I needed to Stealth was to use Stealth attacks, and Marked allows you to do so for long enough to access those skills. So the rare times I was fighting while Marked, which did happen at least a few times, it wasn't an issue. I still had vertical mobility and instant teleports which was plenty enough to survive. I suppose one could argue that it's different if you're playing a build that _does_ rely on Stealth, like a Shadow Arts build, but because said build(s) are such low risk in the first place I think it's pretty okay that there are areas on the map they'll be disadvantaged to fight in. The only reason this complaint has any more validity now than it did before last week is because of the Shortbow nerf. Now your mobility is worse and if you're fighting while Marked you also can't use Stealth defensively. Still, my point stands that it does not only effect Thieves so players of the class just need to learn to respect the mechanic. About me- I often roam on full zerk core Necro which is about as stupid and risky as it gets. I rely on "Stealth" too, the need to not be seen. Because if I get Marked at a bad time I'm going to get overwhelmed and I don't have the virtue of high mobility or additional evades like Thief does. I always take routes around objectives that won't Mark me and I only take Sentry's if I want a fight or if I know I'm unlikely to get ganked. Sentry's near keeps like the one at Lang, Bravost, Veloka, etc. I rarely try to take because I'll probably get attacked before I can flip it and I'll stay Marked for too long drawing too much attention. See how that effects other classes too?

> @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said: > > > > > > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades. > > > > > > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth. > > > > > > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. > > > > > > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;) > > > > > > > > > > Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding. > > > > > > > > Yeah, Thief's don't complain about watchtowers and sentry's because they keep getting marked and killed. Both are easily avoidable by anyone paying attention. They complain because they can't get a kill right up to the tower door or couldn't chase someone because they were running towards a sentry. It is the biggest pointless complaint I have ever heard. Half the time if i'm looking for fights I get marked on purpose so they show up but yeah if you are dying because of a sentry and watchtower as a thief we can't help you. > > > > > > Where do you even see me complain or making a statement that i'm dying to it ? > > > > > > This forum,lmao. > > > > > > > I didn't because no one does so the complaint is pointless. I said if you as in any thief not you personally. So when you personally say Not everyone relies on stealth to survive it infers that because of marked you don't survive because if you do survive then marked isn't a problem now is it? > > The complaint isnt pointless but its something you only understand if you actually Play the class yourself,which you dont. I played Thief for 2 weeks recently. I was terrible with it, but I also got a folder full of big damage screen caps and never once died to or had any kind of problems with being Marked. It actually never crossed my mind that a lot of players complain about it because I'm just used to picking the right times to take Sentries and taking the proper routes to avoid being Marked if I can't handle what responds to it. You know, the logical thing to do.

> @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > @"Gorani.7205" said: > > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades. > > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth. > > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. > > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;) > > Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding. Why is it that when ever there's a discussion about Stealth it's either- Stealth doesn't help to survive at all, everything can still hit you so it's useless! Or, Stealth is the only defense Thief has! Mind you, I suppose now that they can't run away as readily as before, the second argument is a bit more relevant. And as @"Gorani.7205" said, > if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants. No one's forcing you to fight there. So don't, lol. Also I'm glad someone agrees with my perspective on it @"Gorani.7205"

> @"KarlKael.1786" said: > ok, I have to ask, what's on your "Antisocial" chat channel? XD All channels turned off. Only thing I can see is Contacts signing in or out.

> @"FalconRN.6219" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > Oh great you just made 150 WSR transfer again so another double full w/e link they chose inc again. An YB and DB is the biggest assemblage of bags in history. Hopefully they never get mag or 3.1 K/d ratio history will be made > > as a YB player and comander. i feel sad about that, because this link will put us t3/t2 or even t1 because of the numbers (PPT), but we will need to put other metric for our K/D mayve we will hit 0,000001 hahha. > I'm going to make some predictions; DB/YB- T2/1 Mag/DR- T3/2 BG/ET- T1 DH/BP- T2/3 AR/FC- T1/2

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon. > > > > Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else. > > > > I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews. > > For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize _only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC._ Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid. > > > > Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it. > > Warrior main here. What is a condi spellbreaker? Pls enlighten me. I've heard of condi berserker but spb? Some new build? I don't know the exact build, but I've fought quite a few. DB and BG have more than a couple of them and they're extremely obnoxious. Longbow + Sword/X. Very, very good sustain and moderate damage. They don't hurt a whole lot, similar to Signet Necro, but they just have so much armor, health, and regen that they're very difficult to pressure down. I imagine it's something similar to this.

I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon. Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else. I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews. For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize _only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC._ Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid. Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

As long as Well of Corruption is still stripping the same amount of Boons, I'm content.