Shroud.2307

  They'll be okay.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- Marked does not only affect Stealth and Thieves. I agree however that the mechanic needs to be reworked, specifically Watch Tower. Strictly talking roaming/small scale- If I'm roaming on Warrior for example, I'm going to avoid getting Marked to the best of my ability. I can't Stealth so that doesn't matter, but I still don't want to be visible on the map. A Thief however doesn't care about being visible on the map. It's not about whether anyone knows where they are, it's that they can't Stealth to escape because they can pretty much ignore boundaries other classes wouldn't cross. No one wants to fight near a structure because they know; other players will show up and they'll get outnumbered, players can retreat inside, they can be hit by siege. Thieves don't care about that though because they have Stealth and enough mobility to leave before any of that happens. All Marked does to Thieves is force them to play by the same rules as the rest of the classes- don't get Marked unless you have enough back up to deal with what responds to it. I don't like Marked either because it makes roaming/small scale more punishing than fun. For people mad they can't Stealth when Marked it has nothing to do with people knowing where they are and getting outnumbered and everything to do with not being able to escape where if they were playing anything else they would die. And I want to add a disclaimer here that I hate Tactics, passive upgrades, and tower campers, so I'm not defending this mechanic. I'm just making the point that now you know what it's like for everyone else who has to avoid fighting around half the areas on the map because it's not worth the risk.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion. > And I'm saying that supply drop isnt as good as you're saying and thats not really an opinion either. Oh I've fought engies when they where using supply drop against me too. Its been utterly useless for them every single time because I just walk away - I literally ignore the turrets. Meanwhile, a tornado can knock people around like ragdolls allowing my group to pump in damage and get downs (cleanse may be common, multiple stunbreaks arent), while a berserker give me the hp and stab to stomp (and leap + stuns to set up for blowtorch). Both are for offensive and defense use, not just kiting or running away. Thats a ridicculous statement. > > Also if you *do* use it kite/run away... mobility is a roamers mantra. Turrets are, unsurprisingly, not. And this is why I said I didn't want to write a paragraph for it to be dismissed.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"schloumou.3982" said: > Yet I still do fine against meta roamers for some reason. Can I beat all players I meet? No, that would be ridiculous regardless of any skill or build they are purported to have. The point he and I are both making is that you are saying not taking Moa is a handicap when what it actually is is a gimmick. Like Gunflame Berserkers with Arms + Signets, it has potential to one shot but is otherwise very easily shut down because it has poor defenses. Most fights will not be in its favor whether team fight or 1v1. Same idea with core Engi and Moa. It isn't flexible. You're better off taking Supply Crate because it will give you; a Smoke field for Stealth, a Cleanse _(x3)_ on drop, a Water field on drop, it will stun your target(s), and F5 is a huge Cleanse. Elixir X gives you some mobility/CC which is usually reserved for running away/kiting, and Moa to meme people. I feel like you misunderstand me, or maybe I misunderstand the tone of your responses, but I'm not saying "don't play it" or that I don't believe you can beat people with it. I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.

Happening everywhere. Not sure why people are surprised, this is pretty common for patch days. I'm sure it'll be fixed within an hour or so.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > I guess you got what you wanted: > > Rune of the Golemancer: Adjusted the health of the summoned golem to be more in line with other rune summons. Still meat shields which absorbs initial damage that would otherwise be hitting players. They should have changed it such that player skills do not prioritize the Golems, meaning- a 5 target AOE on 5 Golems and 1 player will hit 4 Golems and 1 player. Or, a 5 target AOE on 5 players and 1 Golem will hit 5 players and 0 Golems. Or just remove them entirely because at least IMO runes shouldn't summon pets, period. EDIT: I stand corrected _(maybe?)_ AOE's already prioritize players, which I learned via a Reddit thread on today's patch. I'm not sure this is entirely true however, but because I don't know for certain I'll just say I still stand by my opinion that runes shouldn't summon things.

Looks quite good to me. You definitely understand how to read traits and skills, so that's a good start. I'll share two builds of mine and give you a little description for them. **For zerging** * You can replace Well of Darkness or Well of Suffering with; Spectral Armor, Spectral Walk, Well of Power, or "You Are All Weaklings!", it's up to you. Having at least one stunbreak is always a good idea, and personally I prefer to do so as well. I find using 3 Wells to be a bit too risky, but it is preferred from many commanders that you do so to have maximum damage while your support provides you Stability to avoid the need for stunbreaks. * You can use Marauder over Berserker, but the more Berserker the better. You really don't need the additional crit chance, and you lose quite a bit of Power even if Might and being in Shroud provide plenty. If you're more comfortable with Marauder though, that's a good way to start, and you can work in more Berserker as you get more familiar with the class. * Strength or Scholar, which ever you prefer. Eagle could also work, but as with Marauder, the extra crit chance really isn't necessary. You're likely to always have Fury while with a zerg and when you enter Shroud you'll have over 100% crit chance in full Berserker. With Eagle runes you'd be even more over capped, but they do provide a nice damage boost. Personally I prefer Strength runes because they have the most consistent and easy to maintain modifier and it's easier to stay stacked at 25 Might. * You can take Axe/Focus over Staff if you prefer, it has an additional Boon rip that also deals heavy damage to low health targets, but you'll mostly be spamming 3 off cooldown if you do decide to take this _(and there's nothing wrong with that because I'd say objectively Axe is a slightly better choice than Staff strictly for the extra Boon hate)._ I feel Staff is also a good choice however because it's much safer to use at range, Putrid Mark is a great damage buffer to toss inside your Wells _(that can crit as high as 10k),_ and Reaper's Mark is great for Fearing backliners or tossing inside a Spellbreaker bubble. **For roaming** * You have a lot of flexibility with your utilities here and it's mostly up to you what you feel to work best. Personally, I think Spectral Walk is near mandatory and Flesh Wurm is very high value, but not as necessary. Both can allow for extremely clutch escape or kiting/juking and are important to your survival, but I wouldn't recommend taking Wurm over SWalk. Because there's so much CC in this game it is honestly not over doing it to take a full bar of stunbreaks. * You can replace Greatsword with Staff, or even Axe/Focus with Staff, but I think GS + Axe/Focus is the best choice for the Boon hate, ranged pressure, and area denial. Staff + Axe/Focus is much better in PvP than WvW roaming, where as the Boon corrupt, pull, and Vuln stack damage spike that GS provides are all very strong and not as niche as what Staff will give you. I highly recommend taking Axe/Focus with what ever you decide to take in the second slot. * Chill of Death is also a good choice over Awaken The Pain, but because it's single target I often prefer to take ATP. I think Chill of Death is objectively the better choice here though. You can also drop Soul Barbs for Fear of Death if you decide to take Spectral Ring and/or Staff as it will provide you with a bit more sustain, and Chilling Victory is also an okay choice, though I think Soul Eater is better in this case. **A little more about the roaming build:** I've been using that build for... Maybe nearly 2 years now? I haven't changed much about it other than swapping traits/utilities around from time to time depending on the situation, but the stat alignment has been the same this whole time. It has a good amount of armor and health to allow for trading, it's only slightly overcapped on crit chance _(which I don't mind because I won't always have Fury or be in Shroud when roaming),_ and basically zerker offensive stats while in Shroud without losing a whole lot while out of Shroud. It's well rounded, albeit not necessarily perfect, and doesn't waste too many stats. Some traits and utilities are more based on preference and circumstance while others are more mandatory, and the runes are pretty much necessary to stay roughly around 50% crit chance so I've never bothered to swap those out. Reaper is generally a very user friendly spec. It has an extremely low skill floor and is pretty forgiving against "average" players. That said, as with Necro in general, it is also _extremely_ punishing against better players and very demanding of resource management and positioning. It may take you some time to adjust to the difference between Ele and Necro in that regard because Ele can recover much faster and more consistently than Necro, where as Necro is pretty much boned if it takes a bad hit. **My rule of thumb with Necro is to always play as though the next hit will be the one that kills you, and to always be trying to make people commit to _you_ rather than you committing to _them._** Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps some.

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said: > This OP is a prime example that the stars next to a poster is how often/much the post, not a measure of quality. > > Stars really should be changed to measure # of helpfuls, so people don't take posts like this seriously. I stopped taking anything on these forums seriously years ago. And still should have started sooner than that. And I post here regularly, so I include myself as a part of that idiocy, I just like to talk.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take. > Lol it is nowhere near that percentage. The clips I posted obviously have *some bias* for moments I found fun. > > Much of the time I use moa just because I *can*, not because I need. Even then for every fight I use moa there is 10+ where I dont. > > Besides, its no difference from other skills. Are warriors gimping themselves using rampage? Are rangers gimping themselves using entagle? Are heralds gimping themselves using chaotic release? Are guardians gimping themselves using renewed focus? Etc and so on. I entirely disagree with that logic and I'm not going to write a paragraph about it to be dismissed when I already gave a valid reason. But again, if you enjoy it that's great. Judging by the video I'm assuming the quality of players you face isn't very high, so it makes sense that you have more success than what I say.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > hard countered by pretty much any Necro build. > Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that. I have 4 variants to the build I shared and still play with one of them also using Toolkit and X _(that I've linked below)._ Because your build is Condition it is more viable than mine as Power, but both have very low sustained damage and only a moderate burst. Half the fights you take will be determined by whether or not you land Moa which is why I reserve the Toolkit + X version for groups and trolling. I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take. Let's just say both of our builds are mediocre but have their strengths and call it even, lol. It took a long time before I found and settled on another core Engi build after the February patch. I tried a _lot_ of different things and I'm 110% confident that the one I'm using with mostly Elixirs is versatile enough to win most fights, whether it's by sheer attrition or by punishing aggression. I also have multiple variants of the same build for different purposes; * Version 2- roaming + team fight capable, higher burst, similar sustained damage. * Version 3- weak roamer/good for zerg surfing, high sustained damage but risky, worse cleanse. * Version 4- weak roamer/weak team fighter, good for memeing + hard sniping people in groups, good for general trolling. Please don't take offense to any of this though because I also enjoy playing highly custom builds, I just want them to be strong enough to "compete", meaning the build can either stalemate or win against meta builds even if it's an uphill battle. Having tried something near identical to what you use, I don't feel it quite fits that criteria because it is too reliant on 2 skills, Blowtorch and Moa, to win most of its fights. With that said, it can also completely delete people if you _do_ land Moa, and it can do so to pretty much anything you encounter if you do it properly.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > The 7th year birthday present is a cool eyecatcher and works even in wvw. I got mine a few months ago for my thief, which is from 2013. > > Unfortunately I deleted my first character (which was a necro) from 2012, as it was extremely bad in pve (and still is today), but created a new one right in the hot beta in 2015, as it was obvious that reaper would fix everything. Same, actually. My first character was an Engineer. My account was made early September the same year as my Necro, so my account itself is already a few months older than 7 years. Engi didn't click with me at first because it was too complicated. Some time down the road I made my Necro and have stuck with it ever since, although I did eventually remake my Engi which I consider my "secondary main". Do you still have a character(s) from 2012 for the Birthday Luminous armors and such?

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > Gratz, mine was created between october and december 2012, well... He should be 8 year old already. He helped me going through the time where the servers were so unstable that I couldn't even play in PvE (for someone that don't really enjoy PvP, that hurt, because Ironically, while other had issues in WvW and not in PvE, I faced the opposite). > > I can still remember: > - Shroud being paper thin. > - Downstate health not even being half of the other profession's. > - The blessed week where _Spectral walk_ and _Spectral armor_ had no ICD and could finally grant LF while in shroud. > - The shroud having only 4 skills. > I wasn't around to experience the 4 skill Shroud, but I've seen pictures, and it's so weird. It's strange to think how closely Shroud was modelled after downed state, and how apparent that is when seeing how it used to look with the bar being closer to the middle of the screen.

In WvW I still enjoy zerk core Necro with Staff + Axe/Focus, Flesh Wurm, Spectral Ring, Spectral Walk, Lich Form, Spite/Soul Reaping/Curses and Strength runes. Yes I understand some people consider such a build to be suicide, but I have plenty of fun and success with it and have been using it for so long that I'm very comfortable with it. Not a lot of things can survive my damage and I know how to kite well enough not to get immediately blown up even in outnumbered fights. Some fights just aren't doable depending on what I'm dealing with, like one shot-type Thieves, memebeasts, good Revenants, etc., but everything has a hard time with something, so I don't mind. I don't necessarily _recommend_ trying this build because it is highly punishing and has a lot of losing/difficult match ups, but it's something to consider as I very rarely see core Necros playing glassy. To be honest, I'm one of the only people I can think of that plays this way... Of all my hours in WvW I've met maybe 2 others. Every other core Necro is condi, Signet, super tanky, hybrid, or Minion Master.

I play between 4 and 8 hours a day, all of it in WvW. Occasionally I will do some open world PvE but it's so rare that I do I'd say it's only once a month or less.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > For me, I'd like to see terrormancer become a thing. Maybe not raid viable but at least threatening enough in PvP, wvw and open world PvE. It's too cute atm and strictly worse than both terror scourge and terror reaper which both under preform. > > It is already threatening enough in sPvP/WvW, we've already peoples complaining about the necromancer's fear all over the sPvP subforum. > > Personally, I don't like how fear work in GW2. It's useful and in line with what some other CC can do but I'm just not a fan of this mechanism. I think that among the games I know, the one that express "fear" the best is LOTRO and in GW2 it would be translated as a vitality debuff stackable in intensity (In GW it would not have been far from what the condition _Deep wound_ do, it's just that a %age would be a bit OP in the PvE of a game like GW2). If someone has frequent Stability access and you rotate your Corrupts and other Fears properly you can almost perma-Fear someone to death. I use Staff + Axe/Focus , Spectral Ring, and Path of Corruption when I play core power Necro, and under the right circumstances I can Fear someone between 3 and 6 times consecutively. I don't agree with people that complain about Necro's access to Fear because it only gets ridiculous if the target has Stability. If someone wants to counter this they just have to be more cautious about using it, otherwise it has pretty moderate Fear application. I think Terrormancer is still a viable build but is less so now than previously because of the added cast time to Doom.

> @"XenesisII.1540" said: > Lets stop beating around the bush after 8 years, just turn every structure into a camp and be done with it, cause obviously some people don't enjoy a challenge and just want to roll over everything. The only "challenge" involved in taking a fully upgraded and claimed structure is having the attention span to endure 10+ minutes of dodging trebuchets, arrowcarts, and ballistas while half a map Q of players sit on the walls pretending to do something. The most exciting thing about WvW is combat because it's something GW2 has done better than any MMO out there, but for some reason many players would prefer to avoid it at all cost. I would in fact support turning every objective in to a camp because it would do away with the waiting around for an objective to open and everyone would actually be forced to fight and engage each other. But I guess spamming 1 on an arrow cart while a few dozen people inside the structure do nothing, or spamming 2 on a catapult or ram while again a few dozen people stand around doing nothing, is a lot more exciting and "challenging".

> @"LetoII.3782" said: > An award for trying would be a participation award, simply being present isnt an accomplishment and merits no reward. This ^ I get that the reward system isn't the best, and I'm not against the idea of improving it. I just find the sentiment that people are paying enough attention to their participation decay to leave fights, or likely to not engage in them at all if it isn't going to award any, to be funny. Everyone plays for different reasons and different ways. But we can't have rewards being much easier than what they already are, or like you said, it will further encourage afk farming. And exactly why I cite mobile games because many seem to want exactly that, "participation reward". Minimal effort for maximum gain.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > I'm amazed at how many people play WvW like this. I just don't get it. I understand for some that having a goal to work toward is necessary to keep them playing. But it's amazing to me how many people will just drop what they're doing and quit, or not bother at all if it isn't giving them loot or participation. Why not just play a mobile game or something if combat isn't what you're there for? > Uh, are you talking about my post or something else? Because you seem to have missed the part where I spent 15 minutes fighting them with the futile hope of actually stopping them. > > Yeah I'm not going to continue trying after that when I get zero participation for it. I can easily find combat elsewhere that actually gives me participation - especially since it was the spawntower and spawncamp that was what I was trying to hold onto, everything else was enemy held and I could have gone and killed a sentry, or a guard, or capped a camp, whatever. > > But I guess I quit to easily. Quitting when it's a lost cause because you can't win a 1vX is reasonable. Quitting because you don't get participation is what I'm talking about that I don't get. So how often are you avoiding fights when it's in an open field then? Because you're only getting anything from it if you're near an objective.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum. > > If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that, **participate** . > I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer **participated** in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum. > > Anet does not consider that participating in WvW. > > You dont either? > > Should I have whispered them and taken the 1v5 to Obsidian? I'm amazed at how many people play WvW like this. I just don't get it. I understand for some that having a goal to work toward is necessary to keep them playing. But it's amazing to me how many people will just drop what they're doing and quit, or not bother at all if it isn't giving them loot or participation. Why not just play a mobile game or something if combat isn't what you're there for? Of all the years and hours I've been playing WvW, I still invested myself in it when I lost gold doing so. Of course I thought it was as stupid as everyone else that I had to pay to upgrade things, and I'm glad they changed that, but it was never about participation or items... Fighting is fun and plenty rewarding as an experience. But I guess it explains why so many avoid it entirely or will spend more time repairing a wall that's being attacked than trying to stop it from being hit.

Unfortunately, the laziness and entitlement of GW2's community is a limitless void of victims and hypocrites. All most people want is reward for minimal effort and a pat on the back. The scene of small groups and roamers are a fraction of what they used to be for a variety of reasons, but automatic upgrades, Tactivators, Mounts, and buffs to objective defenses are some of the primary reasons this scale of WvW continues to shrink. There's too much of a discrepancy between effort to reward ratio and people just aren't interested if they know they could do the same thing much faster and safer with a zerg. I understand ANet's struggle to appease both large and small scale players in WvW, but I'm also not certain they care to cater to the latter. I often feel to them that WvW is strictly large scale with the _option_ to play small scale but with no concern for what balance changes might do to it. I see it like this- * It can't be too easy for a couple players, or even one player, to get inside and possibly capture an objective, especially if it's upgraded. If it's during a time of low activity or it's a low population server then there simply won't be coverage to protect said objectives and it becomes too easy for small groups to dominate. * ANet understands that rewarding scouting isn't realistically possible because there are so many ways it could be exploited and scouting is a very broad responsibility. They added Watch Tower and Marked to make scouting less necessary and to promote more activity, but it also has the side effect of rewarding passive game play, and in tandem with Mounts, makes it significantly harder to do anything in small groups/solo without getting overwhelmed. * They also added automatic upgrades to prevent players from stalling upgrades, trolling, having to spend coin, and ensuring objectives progress in tier during low activity. Although this promotes more activity like Watch Tower and Marked, it again also rewards passive game play and punishes small groups. Roaming and small scale has always been risky and not about reward, but about challenge and being a pest to the enemy. Unfortunately, even the most stubborn players can be broken by constant failures to accomplish anything and so either quit entirely or resort to safer means. I think people just need to accept that unless ANet is willing to start considering these things the rare times they make changes to WvW, it's going to take tenfold the effort and knowledge to do anything meaningful without a zerg, and the challenge is the only reward it can provide. I still float around myself from time to time, but a whole lot less so than I used to, and I often do so as discreetly as possible because I'm not skilled enough to consistently win outnumbered fights. Although that has always been a part of roaming, it is pretty well a guarantee at this point because of Mounts and Marked. It can still be fun, and I enjoy sneaking around damaging towers, contesting Waypoints, and having some good fights, but generally it's too frustrating to invest myself in for long.

Reverting it would be acceptable, increasing the range as it is would not. It's unblockable and an instant cast, remember. I hate to pull the victim card, but I'm still mad core Necro had Doom nerfed because it was an instant ranged CC even though it always had a tell _(an image of a Reaper appears above the Necro)._ Steal is 1200 range, instant, and can be traited to Daze... ? Don't get me wrong though, they're different classes so it isn't totally fair to make this comparison. I just get frustrated that things like this exist when Doom had plenty of counterplay as it was pre-nerf, but other things are allowed to keep their instant ranged CC's. I do agree that Swipe is a very short range though and would support a very small increase, but I think even 900 is too much. 750 should be the absolute max for an instant cast unblockable skill.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > Group utility is the last remaining thing soulbeast needs to be 100% broken. So why not. > > It's already a better melee spec than warrior, a better bunker spec than core necro, a better sniper than deadeye. Unfortunately to be the best cc spec, a ranger has to play druid. What a shame. Poor Ranger mains... It must be terrible to have some of the most build diversity, to be one of the strongest roamers/small scalers, and with the common boonbeast build to be more durable than someone in full Soldiers while still doing loads of damage thanks to heaps of Protection, damage reduction, and regen. Imagine only having a niche in zergs though? There should be a trait that gives 10 stacks of every boon in a 600 radius and a utility that gives 10k barrier in a radius to compensate. Oh wait, you can already do that to a lesser extreme with things like Nature Magic and "Protect Me!", and can even give people what is essentially Rev's Impossible Odds with One Wolf Pack.

Experiment. Some classes are objectively better roamers than others for a variety of reasons. Mobility is one of the most significant advantages in roaming because it allows you to get in and out of fights that are unfavorable and to control the flow of ones you can. There are a lot of other factors to consider when deciding on a class to roam with, but ultimately any class is capable if you're comfortable with it and play intelligently. Thief, Ranger, Warrior, Mesmer and Engineer are some of the best roaming classes. Revenant is also good, but has a more narrow selection of suitable builds and more unfavorable matches. Necromancer and Guardian are mostly agreed upon by others to be two of the worst classes to roam with for their lack of mobility, but there are still plenty of people who enjoy roaming on these classes. And of course there is also Elementalist which has some very strong and sustainable builds as well as ones with extremely high burst. Ele however tends to have a hard time finding a middle ground between killing power and sustainability. Either it can live forever and do moderate/low damage or it will die if you spit at it and can one shot almost anything. All classes have their pros and cons. So long as you can respect what your weaknesses are and exploit your strengths you can succeed with anything. I know that isn't the exact answer you're looking for, but it's the truth. Anyone who says "you can't roam with ____" just doesn't have the patience to discipline themselves to learn it because some classes will be more punishing to learn than others, but that doesn't make it impossible.

This reward track has a Leather Cache that gives 10 - 15 of all Leather types. That doesn't sound like much, but considering the value of Leather I think it's not bad. I have it on repeat just because reward tracks go pretty quick at higher ranks so I can get that Leather Cache a lot.

> @"Excursion.9752" said: > I personally think that weapons should not be tied to specializations at all. I would like to see all weapons available for all classes without needing a trait equip. Then every now an then add new trait lines to add to build diversity. I would also allow both scourge and Reaper trait lines to be used concurrently along with any new lines we see in the future. For example if you select both scourge and reaper at the same time your F skill abilities would be something totally new. Restrictions do not promote build diversity and I wanna blow up the whole idea of traits and weapons up entirely. I like the idea of not needing elite specs to use elite spec weapons, but just like the idea of being able to slot 2 elite specs, it would create huge imbalances and require some significant overhauling. I don't think it's a thing that would ever work in GW2 unless ANet was willing to dedicate a massive amount of effort to making it work. If you've ever heard of the game Ashes of Creation, a MMORPG that's currently in development, it has the kind of system you're wanting. Any combination of classes can be used to create entirely new classes. There's something like 64 different possibilities.