Warrior sustain (wvw)

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

>

> >**there is little chance to win** against top rev and thief because on the contrary of warrior, those two classes have been designed with duels in mind

>

> Yes there are professions that duel better than others but I highly doubt they were designed for dueling.

>

> > Like there are top support and top condi classes by design...so they are top duellist classes and warrior it's not one of them, it's a more "grun do it all" sort of class, can have decent duelling capabilities but not more than that.

>

> War was indeed one of the strongest duelists before the nerfs though.

> No one can argue that Warrior didn't straight up overperform in most if not all 1 v 1 duels with no interruptions because their Spellbreaker spec not only gave them alot of defensive aspects, it also gave them damage through Burst resets.

>

> They were hurt extremely badly because they relied alot on their sustain to tough out fights, and as such, were basically more or less an attrition based profession/build.

> Like I mentioned above, Warrior got double nerfed.

> Not only are they unable to pull of high damage bursts like before, they are also unable to sustain well anymore, hence their drop in performance.

>

> > A thief cannot play banner in raids, neither can play shout SB during zerg fights and neither can CC a whole area, sorry to break your bubble but you can't be good at everything with a single class, **accept your limitations or learn to multiclass if you can't let go of your ego**

>

> Thing is, this is mainly a PvP/WvW thread and topic.

> There is literally no sense in bringing in unrelated aspects to measure a Profession's performance in competitive dueling, where sustain is the focus and an important part of winning a fight.

>

> True, there are no Professions that are able to do everything with a single build or setup, but there are Professions out there that are indeed able to perform better in all aspects.

>

> Take Thief for example.

>

> They excel in roaming, dueling and ganking.

> They can engage and disengage at will, with no actual way of stopping them from doing so because they are able to rotate skills essentially 10x faster than other professions due to how their resource mechanic works.

> They are also being played frontline very often now in zerg fights, contrary to past beliefs that Thieves are useless in zerg v zerg.

>

> I've been seeing alot of frontline Staff DDs these days that are able to use Vault for 100% safe pushes while doing absurd amounts of damage.

> Plus they have been employing Scorpion Wire to pick off stragglers.

>

> Where am I going with all this?

>

> **War was over nerfed.

> It used to be pretty good, and now it is less than decent.

> It could use some buffs for sure, even if Anet's goal is to cut out alot of powercreep and balance the game.**

 

Warrior was overperforming because of broken passive sustain + might generation through the roof which was amplifying this passive sustain even more. The warrior is already a class with inherent sustain by design : highest HP and armor, those are two stats you don't need to worry about compared to a class like ele or guardian or even thief .

 

I just want to make sure that **having the highest HP** doesn't get simply swiped under the rug as a frivolous object and with that said...how would you buff warrior sustain? Before the patch a warrior could have the burst and mobility of a thief, the sustain of a bunker healer ele and the tankiness of a scrapper...all with a single build; I was running something like : strength 3-2-2 / tactics 1-2-2 and defense 2-1-1 in PvP and WvW...the sustain was pretty absurd thx to **For great Justice** which was gives 25 might within a short time-span and that coupled with **Mending Might** would give me bonker sustain on top of burst dmg for zero healing power investment, it was a little more than 7k healing every 20s with that shout alone while I was bursting people for 6-7k arcing slices...oh and I had like 3k armor...c'mon.

 

Warrior is also easier to play than most other classes...if not just the easiest one to pick up, if to easiest you add top duellist..we may as well just delete other professions let's be realistic here.

 

Now..let's do some math to prove you how warrior was not overnerfed but rather...**put in its place** :

 

Before patch ) core warrior tactics build = ["might makes me right" x "Mending might" x "For great Justice"]+"vigorous shouts" = 7k healing every 20s at 0 Healing power

After patch) same build = ["might makes me right" x "Mending might" x "For great Justice"]+"vigorous shouts" = 6k healing every 20s at 1200 Healing power

 

See what the devs did? If you want sustain...**you must invest in sustain** and if you want dmg you do the same...no more you get the cake and eat it too, if you want to do damage on warrior now is more risky , it's the high skill floor warrior mains always asked. People like @"VaAnSs.1567" still do well on warrior while those carried by overperforming state...can't keep up anymore but they still can if they're ready to make the right sacrifices

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly warrior sustain was nerfed to hard and it's easy to see how. Other than endure pain all warrior sustain came from heals and a block if using shield so almost all of its sustain options ate the nerf hammer. Other classes that are sustain tanks use barriers,shroud, aegis, have high amounts of shielding or block skills all of which did not see nerfs. All specs that were tanky that didn't rely heavy on rehealing as sustain got way less hit on their sustain compared to say warrior who got most its sustain from might gain=heal-sig of might heavy nerfed as well as mmr values=double nerd. Heal on HS and other heals heavy nerfed. Heal when tethered using magebane=heavy nerf lol.

War sustain got such a thorough beating along with power and dps on cc's the class does not even feel like a warrior class anymore. Gj team.

 

[kiranslee.4829]

I have feeling that half posters on war forums never played war at all in wvw scenario. 15k AD ? Where how much vulnerability stacks ? Or naming players who never streamed second of gameplay but present themself trough edited/bought outnumbered fights in wvw ?

War sustain is not problem if war had mobility in combat, skills that actually work ( rush , helloooo ) weapons that dont know are they power or condi (sword) slugish useless pve only (100b) and silly like mace. Lets talk shield on war in compare to chrono or engi ?

Can anyone give class (roaming build) that is currently worse in combat scenario or that is countered by warrior ? Outdated skills and mechanics from 2012 are the war sustain issue.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

>

>

> No offense but..I see no problems here except a higher skill cap required. Before the patch warrior had extremely high sustain/dmg ratio for a mediocre skill cap requirement, now the dmg is still pretty high by current sustain standards and without doubt warrior is harder to play now but ...as @"Psycoprophet.8107" explained, once a "couple" condi tank sustain get addressed, warrior will be in a good spot. HS if rebuffed **should come with a hefty healing power req** to ofset its passive nature and this to me sounds pretty normal

 

please don't link random editted video, u just get discredited and making a joke out of yourself.

also i full HP killed vaans 1v1 on my thief, why i never saw those in the videos

Oh wait, it's editted and gives massive illusion of something being too good, why i couldn't understand this concept at all, silly me.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> >

> >

> > No offense but..I see no problems here except a higher skill cap required. Before the patch warrior had extremely high sustain/dmg ratio for a mediocre skill cap requirement, now the dmg is still pretty high by current sustain standards and without doubt warrior is harder to play now but ...as @"Psycoprophet.8107" explained, once a "couple" condi tank sustain get addressed, warrior will be in a good spot. HS if rebuffed **should come with a hefty healing power req** to ofset its passive nature and this to me sounds pretty normal

>

> please don't link random editted video, u just get discredited and making a joke out of yourself.

> also i full HP killed vaans 1v1 on my thief, why i never saw those in the videos

> Oh wait, it's editted and gives massive illusion of something being too good, why i couldn't understand this concept at all, silly me.

 

This is so true, the vids are entertaining and I'm glad these players take the time to do it and in no way is saying their not great players but in the end shows little of anything but for entertainment value.

Like the recent vid of zerker I saw in wvw lol he be boned up jump into the blob and kill literally 10-15 people in zerk mode than walk out blob alive lol did this multiple times, wonder how many times they tried that and insta died or killed one or 2 people lol but from the vid looked like zerker was thee most op survivable spec haha.

The vids are often brought up as a show of damage and the vids either out dated or showing some stars aligned situational damage from a burst that's in no way common in 90% of situations lol.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Honestly warrior sustain was nerfed to hard and it's easy to see how. Other than endure pain all warrior sustain came from heals and a block if using shield so almost all of its sustain options ate the nerf hammer. Other classes that are sustain tanks use barriers,shroud, aegis, have high amounts of shielding or block skills all of which did not see nerfs. All specs that were tanky that didn't rely heavy on rehealing as sustain got way less hit on their sustain compared to say warrior who got most its sustain from might gain=heal-sig of might heavy nerfed as well as mmr values=double nerd. Heal on HS and other heals heavy nerfed. Heal when tethered using magebane=heavy nerf lol.

> War sustain got such a thorough beating along with power and dps on cc's the class does not even feel like a warrior class anymore. Gj team.

>

 

I play warrior in wvw...all you say it's just your personal opinion, does not correspond to reality in my opinion

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Honestly warrior sustain was nerfed to hard and it's easy to see how. Other than endure pain all warrior sustain came from heals and a block if using shield so almost all of its sustain options ate the nerf hammer. Other classes that are sustain tanks use barriers,shroud, aegis, have high amounts of shielding or block skills all of which did not see nerfs. All specs that were tanky that didn't rely heavy on rehealing as sustain got way less hit on their sustain compared to say warrior who got most its sustain from might gain=heal-sig of might heavy nerfed as well as mmr values=double nerd. Heal on HS and other heals heavy nerfed. Heal when tethered using magebane=heavy nerf lol.

> > War sustain got such a thorough beating along with power and dps on cc's the class does not even feel like a warrior class anymore. Gj team.

> >

>

> I play warrior in wvw...all you say it's just your personal opinion, does not correspond to reality in my opinion

 

Yeah a opinion shared by many, also easy to just say u play a class as well.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Honestly warrior sustain was nerfed to hard and it's easy to see how. Other than endure pain all warrior sustain came from heals and a block if using shield so almost all of its sustain options ate the nerf hammer. Other classes that are sustain tanks use barriers,shroud, aegis, have high amounts of shielding or block skills all of which did not see nerfs. All specs that were tanky that didn't rely heavy on rehealing as sustain got way less hit on their sustain compared to say warrior who got most its sustain from might gain=heal-sig of might heavy nerfed as well as mmr values=double nerd. Heal on HS and other heals heavy nerfed. Heal when tethered using magebane=heavy nerf lol.

> > > War sustain got such a thorough beating along with power and dps on cc's the class does not even feel like a warrior class anymore. Gj team.

> > >

> >

> > I play warrior in wvw...all you say it's just your personal opinion, does not correspond to reality in my opinion

>

> Yeah a opinion shared by many, also easy to just say u play a class as well.

 

https://i.imgur.com/kQQCKoJ.jpg

 

[Rodrick.1942]

I can say this video is true, he probably have 100% critical chance and he followed up other skills in less than 2 sec really fast, to give burst damage from like gs F1 and 3, the base damage got nerf but because all of your attack are critical hit, it bring up total burst damage back to table.

 

He has no sustain, that's true(only comes from healing signet and MMR). All he did is keep dodging/Full counter and deal damage when people get daze/stun by F2/ dagger 3/shield bash or bull's charge , I suppose he has high quality of PC/Screen to allow him cast skills without lag/fps drop issue.

[Shroud.2307]

Thread getting a bit old now, but I wanted to chime in that I think core Warrior is flat out worse than Spellbreaker now. With the nerfs to passives in Defense it doesn't feel worth it to take anymore and Tactics doesn't do a great job at replacing it. Although Tactics also provides some nice damage boosts and the sustain is a lot more manual, which is good, it just isn't as potent in the long run.

 

You gain a low cooldown block with more utility options in Spellbreaker traits and don't lose any ( or very little ) damage. I think core needs a bit of a boost to bring it back in line because as of right now, Spellbreaker feels like a straight upgrade.

 

More on topic though, Warrior has always been pretty durable, and still is. Although I definitely agree that the changes to Defense have reduced that durability a great deal, I still think Warrior has a lot of ways to endure a fight via evades, cleanses, mobility and immunity. You just have to be a lot more active now where as before you could get away with being sloppy because passives could carry you through mistakes.

 

I play Strength/Discipline/Spellbreaker with GS + Sword/x, full Berserker ( + 2 pieces of Assassin for a little extra crit chance ) and Strength runes in WvW. I feel a bit more vulnerable now that I've stopped using Defense but I also feel a lot more dangerous. I _regularly_ land 10 - 15k crits with Arcing Slice and all my attacks in between are pretty nasty as well. Passive sustain may not be as good as it used to be but Warrior's damage is still definitely there and enough to keep people on the fence.

[Lighter.5631]

funny enough it's 2012 all over again, warrior getting killed by pets, except this time warrior doesnt have damage either, atleast you were able to one shot people with bullcharge frenzy hb.

i wonder what anet will do, if just buff by numbers in sustain again like they did in 2013. it would completely nullify the nerf patch.

[Warlord.9074]

Vaans is a really good player. Ya all his videos are edited and most of the time killing easy players, but he can beat equally skilled players as well that are also good at the game.

 

It's not a fair comparison to compare a really good player playing a any class who is making a edited video to what the average or even above average player can do with the same class in real world.

 

I think warrior sustain would be fine if the dammage of the CC wasn't nerfed. But with the lower dammage and no dammage of the CC the sustain is a little low. I don't think the anwser is to buff the sustain but to put the dammage back in all of the skills that got nerfed honestly. Maybe need to tone down some other classes specs sustain.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Thread getting a bit old now, but I wanted to chime in that I think core Warrior is flat out worse than Spellbreaker now. With the nerfs to passives in Defense it doesn't feel worth it to take anymore and Tactics doesn't do a great job at replacing it. Although Tactics also provides some nice damage boosts and the sustain is a lot more manual, which is good, it just isn't as potent in the long run.

>

> You gain a low cooldown block with more utility options in Spellbreaker traits and don't lose any ( or very little ) damage. I think core needs a bit of a boost to bring it back in line because as of right now, Spellbreaker feels like a straight upgrade.

>

> More on topic though, Warrior has always been pretty durable, and still is. Although I definitely agree that the changes to Defense have reduced that durability a great deal, I still think Warrior has a lot of ways to endure a fight via evades, cleanses, mobility and immunity. You just have to be a lot more active now where as before you could get away with being sloppy because passives could carry you through mistakes.

>

> I play Strength/Discipline/Spellbreaker with GS + Sword/x, full Berserker ( + 2 pieces of Assassin for a little extra crit chance ) and Strength runes in WvW. I feel a bit more vulnerable now that I've stopped using Defense but I also feel a lot more dangerous. I _regularly_ land 10 - 15k crits with Arcing Slice and all my attacks in between are pretty nasty as well. Passive sustain may not be as good as it used to be but Warrior's damage is still definitely there and enough to keep people on the fence.

 

I've been running Core lately in WvW and have been having an easier time versus Spellbreakers since the patch.

 

I swapped from running full YOLO offense to almost full turtle:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEdflZwSYXMMGKOWPqJdA-zVZYBRM6SLKYiBhWIhVBtmAVECOPNCYGA-w

 

Purely for kicks and giggles, but I've been stomping some classes that have given me trouble in the past, and a great deal more stomps than usual.

 

The Sanctuary runes are a small amount of barrier, but its a lot of frequent small bits of barrier, usually floating between 500-1000 barrier during a fight even while taking damage, with more during teamfights. It is essentially an easy way to bump your 'healing' by 20% without using healing power. The higher health pool will let an ally with barrier give you a large amount without overflowing. The damage is lower, but still high enough to secure a kill, Rampage to secure stomps in 1vX fights.

 

Again, this was purely for kicks and giggles, but it's been working well surprisingly.