Warrior sustain (wvw)

[kiranslee.4829]

I was wondering, are everyone fine with current warrior sustain lack of it ? Im looking at this from perspective of roaming warrior and in compare to all other classes ?

For me personally warrior healing signet got destroyed while rest of options are in quite , well, bad. Should anet actually look into this or we are fine (play other class) ?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I think HS got over nerfed a tad and some cc skills need some damage back but other than that and dew weapon revamps warriors still in a ok place. I think the few outliers that have to high of sustain are more the issue. Once those classes have their sustain shaved a bit things will be better for war and the rest of the classes.

[eXruina.4956]

Honestly I don't like the current state that Warrior is in, there's always been so many things to address but honestly this previous balance patch killed it for me.

 

If there's anything I've learned in all the years I've been playing this game is that what you and me or any other player thinks won't change anything, best disillusion yourself as early as now and invest in another class if you think Warrior feels lacking.

 

Other classes can Teleport or have multiple Teleports or even spammable Teleports, pulse Stability, have abundant access to boons like Protection, Resistance, Aegis etc.. some even upgrading Protection to deal with Condition damage, spammable Stealth, Blinds, Chills, Dazes, Invulnerabilities and Defensive Mechanics on low cooldowns, multiple skills in their kit doing many things in the push of a button, (I thought the latter 2 was the reason why they supposedly gutted Full Counter and to an extent Stances and related traits, talk about hypocrisy). They also have little to no significant trade off or drawback..

 

That and many more so... yeah.. I advise you to invest in another class, there's almost nothing a Warrior can do that another class can't do better or with less risk.

 

Also that previous balance patch was half-assed, despite being promising on paper, majority of the bad stuff they promised they'd address ARE STILL THERE.. AMAZING.., I swear they shouldn't have hyped it as much as they did, it just f'd up their credibility even more.

 

Although the vision was in the right direction, the execution was horrible and open ended, with no follow through in sight, they again just left us with empty promises of addressing key issues and regular updates.

 

Edit: Grammar and Spellcheck

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

When they rework the stance traits I'm sure sustain won't feel so rough. Some things on warrior were definitely overnerfed. I suspect some of the numbers to creep up some once the Dev team has a chance to fix the balance team's overzealousness.

[Blocki.4931]

I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

 

Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

>

> Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

 

Take strength line. Unblockable attacks for days.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

> >

> > Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

>

> Take strength line. Unblockable attacks for days.

 

Yeah, I've been taking Strength ever since Defense was nerfed and I stopped relying on it so much (the heal on stunbreak is still nice though, so if I need reflects for pressure I still run it) and it's so much fun dodging and damaging everything hahaha

Bonus for getting Vigor from Warhorn 5 on top and running defensive runes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

> > >

> > > Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

> >

> > Take strength line. Unblockable attacks for days.

>

> Yeah, I've been taking Strength ever since Defense was nerfed and I stopped relying on it so much (the heal on stunbreak is still nice though, so if I need reflects for pressure I still run it) and it's so much fun dodging and damaging everything hahaha

> Bonus for getting Vigor from Warhorn 5 on top and running defensive runes.

 

Take the dodge food and stamina signet and skip the warhorn and just start dodging.

 

GS and BC for extra evade frames. Either stance heal or shout heal and go to town.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

> > > >

> > > > Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

> > >

> > > Take strength line. Unblockable attacks for days.

> >

> > Yeah, I've been taking Strength ever since Defense was nerfed and I stopped relying on it so much (the heal on stunbreak is still nice though, so if I need reflects for pressure I still run it) and it's so much fun dodging and damaging everything hahaha

> > Bonus for getting Vigor from Warhorn 5 on top and running defensive runes.

>

> Take the dodge food and stamina signet and skip the warhorn and just start dodging.

>

> GS and BC for extra evade frames. Either stance heal or shout heal and go to town.

 

I have ascended and now I clear Camps by dodging and using my bursts on cooldown so I get more dodges.

[Yasai.3549]

Warrior got double nerfed imo.

 

They were pretty stronk before due to good sustain + high Power damage.

Now that they have weaker Power damage, they really need the sustain they had before.

 

Would be nice if MMR and HS were buffed a little bit to compensate for general increase in TTK.

 

That or Anet just wants all Warriors to use actual activated heal skills which is sad.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > > I don't think Healing Signet has been good for many months now, the last nerf just made it pure garbage. Use the Shout or the Defiant Stance instead, maybe Mending because of the cleanses and low cooldown.

> > > > >

> > > > > Another fun thing to do is just running dodge food, Stamina Signet, Endurance Sigils and To the Limit. So many dodges, you can't even keep up with spamming the button. That's how I sustain through our zerg fights. Works pretty well.

> > > >

> > > > Take strength line. Unblockable attacks for days.

> > >

> > > Yeah, I've been taking Strength ever since Defense was nerfed and I stopped relying on it so much (the heal on stunbreak is still nice though, so if I need reflects for pressure I still run it) and it's so much fun dodging and damaging everything hahaha

> > > Bonus for getting Vigor from Warhorn 5 on top and running defensive runes.

> >

> > Take the dodge food and stamina signet and skip the warhorn and just start dodging.

> >

> > GS and BC for extra evade frames. Either stance heal or shout heal and go to town.

>

> I have ascended and now I clear Camps by dodging and using my bursts on cooldown so I get more dodges.

 

Yep. Do you roll SpB or core?

 

(pun very much intended)

 

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Warrior got double nerfed imo.

>

> They were pretty stronk before due to good sustain + high Power damage.

> Now that they have weaker Power damage, they really need the sustain they had before.

>

> Would be nice if MMR and HS were buffed a little bit to compensate for general increase in TTK.

>

> That or Anet just wants all Warriors to use actual activated heal skills which is sad.

 

Which is sad considering Anet themselves once considered the Warrior a class that gets more dangerous the longer you fight them, almost like the Necro...

 

Warrior had some VERY strong passives though, honestly gutting DP and LS along with MMR, HS, and AH was a bit much. It's taking the Dev team some time it seems to roll out their changes... Would rather these traits not received the 300s CD while we wait forever for the Dev team to roll out the changes, but at this rate it will be when the ExPac comes out.

[Lighter.5631]

Of course, it's 2013 all over again.

 

When warrior's sustain is changed to an "overall acceptable" level.

teleports, evades, blind, block and AI attacks becomes superior sustain abilities

which warrior lacks, spellbreaker is the only warrior that's better at PvP for the extra stab/block aka full counter and has healing that's related to active gameplay aka tether+might makes right.

 

But back in 2013 when warrior were unplayable, so Anet, somehow, decided to straight up buff passive healing numbers with very little gameplay involved.

then warrior became unkillable noob carry, because it's straight up passive healing buff and not mechanics related.

 

and until the introduction of spellbreaker, warrior has always been unplayable or unkillable, ofc unplayable reminded longer before PoF.

what's so good about spellbreaker compared to other warriors, it's that it has amazing healing, but it's related to active gameplay.

 

another thing to note is, forum's complain is never about the most OP class if played at max level, but often about which class puts out the most results with the least effort

 

 

[Moradorin.6217]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Warrior got double nerfed imo.

>

> They were pretty stronk before due to good sustain + high Power damage.

> Now that they have weaker Power damage, they really need the sustain they had before.

>

> Would be nice if MMR and HS were buffed a little bit to compensate for general increase in TTK.

>

> That or Anet just wants all Warriors to use actual activated heal skills which is sad.

Until you remember all the warriors constantly complaining the forums about how other classes have too many passives while ignoring that War gets so many passives. Not saying its OP still. Just saying people should be careful what they assert is the problem before stirring up the hornets nest. Meaning, maybe they got what they deserved.

 

Just to be clear. I think Warrior was over performing for a long time and people who play warrior got very used to the mindset that Warrior was balanced when it had as much mobility as thief as much burst as 1-shot mes and as much sustain as bunker ele. LOL. I think they had has a distorted view of what was balanced.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Warrior may need more active sustain sources. But that should be rolled into Core not an E-Spec.

 

Defy Pain and Last Stand are supposedly being reworked. What sort of active sustain can go into their place?

 

I would say let Defy Pain cast Lesser Endure pain when a stance ends as an active version, 1-2s perhaps, 3-4 for PvE, excluding Lesser Endure Pain itself. I'm sure that the Forum QQers would cry too hard over that though, and it would be strong, but not like certain especs that can perma evade or perma stealth, and would still be susceptible to condi and CC.

 

Last Stand could instead grant extra benefits while having stability, and grant stability when certain actions are taken, like evading or blocking. Extra benefits could be gaining protection, retaliation, or healing if it is stripped.

 

Soldier's Focus could get its ICD removed, or shortened to 5s. That would let a player actually use their bursts as a way to generate active sustain via healing without taking an E-Spec as well.

[kiranslee.4829]

Today i went for roaming on condi rev. Made it tb stats malix and dwarf. I found some really cool war guy was high rank and obviously skilled player, if u roam u know if other guy is good quite fast. Anyway it was a joke fights i could facetank him and no matter what build he try he would be losing while i didnt go below 70% hp. And worst part my skill level on condi rev is from 1to 10 , maybe 3, while he is prolly 8 or even 9.

I was quite honestly so upset i closed game after this. To me , watching skilled player like he was lose to broken shit class and bad play was too much.

Now that was rev, i could have go for de with awesome hide > daze>10k dmg port rotation or pew pew kite ranger or reaper carpace, core necro, condi fb, i bet result would be quite similar to same.

Anyway long rant but in general war is in crap place and i just wish community actually stand up once and say it.

 

Ps.

Rush should have skill note : chance to hit , similar to drop rates of chak infusion.

[Antipode.7830]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> Today i went for roaming on condi rev. Made it tb stats malix and dwarf. I found some really cool war guy was high rank and obviously skilled player, if u roam u know if other guy is good quite fast. Anyway it was a joke fights i could facetank him and no matter what build he try he would be losing while i didnt go below 70% hp. And worst part my skill level on condi rev is from 1to 10 , maybe 3, while he is prolly 8 or even 9.

> I was quite honestly so upset i closed game after this. To me , watching skilled player like he was lose to broken kitten class and bad play was too much.

> Now that was rev, i could have go for de with awesome hide > daze>10k dmg port rotation or pew pew kite ranger or reaper carpace, core necro, condi fb, i bet result would be quite similar to same.

> Anyway long rant but in general war is in kitten place and i just wish community actually stand up once and say it.

>

> Ps.

> Rush should have skill note : chance to hit , similar to drop rates of chak infusion.

 

I've had this happen against every condi bunker I've come across while learning. Power builds I can actually fight with, even if takes forever to reach a conclusion. My damage is so low that it feels like I just shouldn't fight condition builds.

 

Honestly, I've only been trying it a few days, and I'm already tempted to put it down because it just feels pointless. Compared to other classes, it feels like it can't do enough at once to be useful.

[Henry.5713]

Nothing new. We seem to have gone full circle and actually returned to the old warrior. You are able to win fights if you outplay your enemies while using every little bit of movement possible. Minus those brick wall builds that you just can't win against when you face anyone even half decent.

 

Also, this is the 5th nerf to the healing part of Healing Signet (with one small buff in between).

[kiranslee.4829]

What we can do is report report and report. Warrior community was always back on heals hardly ever we join to talk to anet. I hope anet ppl can take proper skilled tester and notice in how bad state warrior in wvw is .

[Mighty Cole.7849]

This is pretty much how I feel every time I step out of spawn on my warrior now...

https://i.imgur.com/R5yPYK7.gif

[Arheundel.6451]

 

No offense but..I see no problems here except a higher skill cap required. Before the patch warrior had extremely high sustain/dmg ratio for a mediocre skill cap requirement, now the dmg is still pretty high by current sustain standards and without doubt warrior is harder to play now but ...as @"Psycoprophet.8107" explained, once a "couple" condi tank sustain get addressed, warrior will be in a good spot. HS if rebuffed **should come with a hefty healing power req** to ofset its passive nature and this to me sounds pretty normal

[Xperia.9482]

> @"eXruina.4956" said:

> Honestly I don't like the current state that Warrior is in, there's always been so many things to address but honestly this previous balance patch killed it for me.

>

> If there's anything I've learned in all the years I've been playing this game is that what you and me or any other player thinks won't change anything, best disillusion yourself as early as now and invest in another class if you think Warrior feels lacking.

>

> Other classes can Teleport or have multiple Teleports or even spammable Teleports, pulse Stability, have abundant access to boons like Protection, Resistance, Aegis etc.. some even upgrading Protection to deal with Condition damage, spammable Stealth, Blinds, Chills, Dazes, Invulnerabilities and Defensive Mechanics on low cooldowns, multiple skills in their kit doing many things in the push of a button, (I thought the latter 2 was the reason why they supposedly gutted Full Counter and to an extent Stances and related traits, talk about hypocrisy). They also have little to no significant trade off or drawback..

>

> That and many more so... yeah.. I advise you to invest in another class, there's almost nothing a Warrior can do that another class can't do better or with less risk.

>

> Also that previous balance patch was kitten, despite being promising on paper, majority of the bad stuff they promised they'd address ARE STILL THERE.. AMAZING.., I swear they shouldn't have hyped it as much as they did, it just f'd up their credibility even more.

>

> Although the vision was in the right direction, the execution was horrible and open ended, with no follow through in sight, they again just left us with empty promises of addressing key issues and regular updates.

>

> Edit: Grammar and Spellcheck

 

This is exactly how I feel. I get stunlocked or feard for 10s and literally can't do anything and then I die to 20k condi dmg. It's not fun. It's rather pathetic.

[kiranslee.4829]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

>

>

> No offense but..I see no problems here except a higher skill cap required. Before the patch warrior had extremely high sustain/dmg ratio for a mediocre skill cap requirement, now the dmg is still pretty high by current sustain standards and without doubt warrior is harder to play now but ...as @"Psycoprophet.8107" explained, once a "couple" condi tank sustain get addressed, warrior will be in a good spot. HS if rebuffed **should come with a hefty healing power req** to ofset its passive nature and this to me sounds pretty normal

Please dont link Vaanss here. He is far from skilled or any good war. All of cake vids are highly edited and pathetic. I dare u to show me Vaanss running wvw alone and beating any skilled players. Ppl who believe in cake vids are fanboys or clueless players believing in edited vids. I highly suggest u trust only streamers and that to with grain of salt.

Take any skilled necro, thief, rev , ranger and no warrior in wvw scenario have chance in 1v1.

 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> >

> >

> > No offense but..I see no problems here except a higher skill cap required. Before the patch warrior had extremely high sustain/dmg ratio for a mediocre skill cap requirement, now the dmg is still pretty high by current sustain standards and without doubt warrior is harder to play now but ...as @"Psycoprophet.8107" explained, once a "couple" condi tank sustain get addressed, warrior will be in a good spot. HS if rebuffed **should come with a hefty healing power req** to ofset its passive nature and this to me sounds pretty normal

> Please dont link Vaanss here. He is far from skilled or any good war. All of cake vids are highly edited and pathetic. I dare u to show me Vaanss running wvw alone and beating any skilled players. Ppl who believe in cake vids are fanboys or clueless players believing in edited vids. I highly suggest u trust only streamers and that to with grain of salt.

> Take any skilled necro, thief, rev , ranger and no warrior in wvw scenario have chance in 1v1.

>

>

 

You need to understand the nature of each class my friend....leaving aside necro ( it has got nerfs incoming for their core version being just too tanky ) and ranger ( birds and tiger pet will have dmg shaves soon, while the ranger itself doesn't deal enough dmg to be an insta death unwinnable duel for warriors ).....**there is little chance to win** against top rev and thief because on the contrary of warrior, those two classes have been designed with duels in mind

 

Like there are top support and top condi classes by design...so they are top duellist classes and warrior it's not one of them, it's a more "grun do it all" sort of class, can have decent duelling capabilities but not more than that.

 

A thief cannot play banner in raids, neither can play shout SB during zerg fights and neither can CC a whole area, sorry to break your bubble but you can't be good at everything with a single class, **accept your limitations or learn to multiclass if you can't let go of your ego**

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

 

>**there is little chance to win** against top rev and thief because on the contrary of warrior, those two classes have been designed with duels in mind

 

Yes there are professions that duel better than others but I highly doubt they were designed for dueling.

 

> Like there are top support and top condi classes by design...so they are top duellist classes and warrior it's not one of them, it's a more "grun do it all" sort of class, can have decent duelling capabilities but not more than that.

 

War was indeed one of the strongest duelists before the nerfs though.

No one can argue that Warrior didn't straight up overperform in most if not all 1 v 1 duels with no interruptions because their Spellbreaker spec not only gave them alot of defensive aspects, it also gave them damage through Burst resets.

 

They were hurt extremely badly because they relied alot on their sustain to tough out fights, and as such, were basically more or less an attrition based profession/build.

Like I mentioned above, Warrior got double nerfed.

Not only are they unable to pull of high damage bursts like before, they are also unable to sustain well anymore, hence their drop in performance.

 

> A thief cannot play banner in raids, neither can play shout SB during zerg fights and neither can CC a whole area, sorry to break your bubble but you can't be good at everything with a single class, **accept your limitations or learn to multiclass if you can't let go of your ego**

 

Thing is, this is mainly a PvP/WvW thread and topic.

There is literally no sense in bringing in unrelated aspects to measure a Profession's performance in competitive dueling, where sustain is the focus and an important part of winning a fight.

 

True, there are no Professions that are able to do everything with a single build or setup, but there are Professions out there that are indeed able to perform better in all aspects.

 

Take Thief for example.

 

They excel in roaming, dueling and ganking.

They can engage and disengage at will, with no actual way of stopping them from doing so because they are able to rotate skills essentially 10x faster than other professions due to how their resource mechanic works.

They are also being played frontline very often now in zerg fights, contrary to past beliefs that Thieves are useless in zerg v zerg.

 

I've been seeing alot of frontline Staff DDs these days that are able to use Vault for 100% safe pushes while doing absurd amounts of damage.

Plus they have been employing Scorpion Wire to pick off stragglers.

 

Where am I going with all this?

 

**War was over nerfed.

It used to be pretty good, and now it is less than decent.

It could use some buffs for sure, even if Anet's goal is to cut out alot of powercreep and balance the game.**

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anduriell.6280]

Warrior sustain is fine. If you need more sustain use shield or dodge.

It has more damage than other classes, 15K arc divider in something like commander.

It melts against conditions, but in the actual state of the game anybody melts against them. The other day i had an encounter with a perma stealth rifle Deadeye which applied constant 2k tick poison.