For the love of God, Nerf Mesmer already!

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Fir.7932" said:

> I am sorry, but If you have problems with mesmers (And i believe you mean Mirages) then just admit that you are either bad or your build is =D Never had a single problem with one dodge man, the player must be really good to have any value with it whatsoever..

 

Invite you to take a look at hte video I posted further down. It's irefutable evidence Mesmer is OP. cheers~!

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Mirage doesnt need active dodge, they have mirrors.

[pninak.1069]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 thiefs don't need stealth they got backstabs.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Yes and Anet should remove the energy sigils.

Mirage is too op using it :+1:

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"pninak.1069" said:

> @Paradoxoglanis.1904 thiefs don't need stealth they got backstabs.

 

Need to be stealthed to use backstab though. Thieves dont need more than 5000 health, they have mobility.

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > @Paradoxoglanis.1904 thiefs don't need stealth they got backstabs.

>

> Need to be stealthed to use backstab though. Thieves dont need more than 5000 health, they have mobility.

 

Warriors don't need dodges, they have Heavy Armor

[pninak.1069]

yea pretty much these excuses. Fine you can remove dodges if you like, but I doubt anet will go that for+ they have to give us smth else as compensation. with 0 dodges mirage would be the spec with highest skill ceiling in the game. and a lot of people who whine about mirages propably don't play them

[Firebeard.1746]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET!

> > >

> > > @ArenaNet

> > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered?

> > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy:

>

> Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell.

 

This is a joke, right?

[James.1065]

This must be an old thread cause mesmers suck - i farm them all day on my reaper.

 

The only OP classes right now are core necro (can be fixed easy by matching it's shroud de-generation to the same rate as reaper shroud), and ranger (need to reduce thier survivalbilty - too much block, evade, invunerbility, invisibility, protection, regen mobility etc etc)

 

Everything else seems to be feeling like its in a good position right now from a balance perspective, but that's just my opinion

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET!

> > > >

> > > > @ArenaNet

> > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered?

> > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy:

> >

> > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell.

>

> This is a joke, right?

 

Why don't you take a look at the video I posted and decide for yourself if it's a joke or not? :smiley:

 

@"James.1065" No, I made it a few days ago. It's quite new.

[pninak.1069]

I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > @Paradoxoglanis.1904 thiefs don't need stealth they got backstabs.

>

> Need to be stealthed to use backstab though.

 

That is exactly the point, it just makes as much sense as a Mirage with only one dodge. But contradicting mechanics hard enough to make them useless and clunky is Anets new hobby. Stay tuned, your class might be the next.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"pninak.1069" said:

> I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

 

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

[Firebeard.1746]

> @"James.1065" said:

> This must be an old thread cause mesmers suck - i farm them all day on my reaper.

>

> The only OP classes right now are core necro (can be fixed easy by matching it's shroud de-generation to the same rate as reaper shroud), and ranger (need to reduce thier survivalbilty - too much block, evade, invunerbility, invisibility, protection, regen mobility etc etc)

>

> Everything else seems to be feeling like its in a good position right now from a balance perspective, but that's just my opinion

 

How does guardian spam block? I literally hit one with like 5 abilities and could never touch it. I think that sustain is crazy. Once I was up against one who could do that and could throw 10 burn stacks on me like it was nothing. I tried cleansing, hit me with it again. I think Guardian is in a crazy spot right now too.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> But contradicting mechanics hard enough to make them useless and clunky is Anets new hobby.

 

Mirrors are a nice and clunky dodge mechanic, seems only fair to have mirages and chronos clunk around together.

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > @"James.1065" said:

> > This must be an old thread cause mesmers suck - i farm them all day on my reaper.

> >

> > The only OP classes right now are core necro (can be fixed easy by matching it's shroud de-generation to the same rate as reaper shroud), and ranger (need to reduce thier survivalbilty - too much block, evade, invunerbility, invisibility, protection, regen mobility etc etc)

> >

> > Everything else seems to be feeling like its in a good position right now from a balance perspective, but that's just my opinion

>

> How does guardian spam block? I literally hit one with like 5 abilities and could never touch it. I think that sustain is crazy. Once I was up against one who could do that and could throw 10 burn stacks on me like it was nothing. I tried cleansing, hit me with it again. I think Guardian is in a crazy spot right now too.

 

Guards arnt really what's overperforming it's the high burst that burn tics can do that are, add the constant replication that guards, weavers and to lesser degree zergers can achieve it makes classes like guards high burst and sustained damage at same time. Also don't let guards tell u they cant chain blocks and invulnerability skills as I'm sure most people that have played this game over few days in pvp has witnessed first hand how long a good guard can avoid damage using its sustain skills properly. With the damage drop in non condi builds and the lack of changes to class sustain at all the fact guard,rangers, necros and weavers etc can sustain as they do while reapplying burns or other high damage conditions with tics that resemble bursts on a continuous basis makes for some pretty oppressive playstyles currently.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> > >

> > > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

> >

> > i have a Thief staff build that easily output 8k-10k in PvP without using high gears. I don't know about the 23k damage output but it is still possible that Thief fully equipping with high gear+food can output 12k-18k easily.

> >

> > (also, my Toxic Bad Design Mesmer Profession can easily still +1 shot and its predecessor Thief Profession is right next to it) Yes, i said it...Mesmer design is Toxic....not only Thief.

> >

> > (F.Y.I, minimizing Thief damages doesn't help cover up their 8 years+ history of Broken Bad Design either)

> >

>

> Yeah a staff build that's gbage and easily shut down and no it does not always do 8k, god I wish posters would stop lying as is people cant go see for themselves. Thief dps burst doesnt necessarily need increasing but sustain among certain classes def do need the nerf hammer swatted at them

 

i'll look for the staff build and will follow up with you. During the meantime, let me start with this one- D/D Thief 15k+/+2 shotting with +1 shotting (**build included**)

 

(by the way, Yes it is current video- April 2020)

- a lot of deaths but its a showcase of Thief high burst damage output capability )

 

 

**'In the end, there it is....Truth!!'**

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> > > >

> > > > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

> > >

> > > i have a Thief staff build that easily output 8k-10k in PvP without using high gears. I don't know about the 23k damage output but it is still possible that Thief fully equipping with high gear+food can output 12k-18k easily.

> > >

> > > (also, my Toxic Bad Design Mesmer Profession can easily still +1 shot and its predecessor Thief Profession is right next to it) Yes, i said it...Mesmer design is Toxic....not only Thief.

> > >

> > > (F.Y.I, minimizing Thief damages doesn't help cover up their 8 years+ history of Broken Bad Design either)

> > >

> >

> > Yeah a staff build that's gbage and easily shut down and no it does not always do 8k, god I wish posters would stop lying as is people cant go see for themselves. Thief dps burst doesnt necessarily need increasing but sustain among certain classes def do need the nerf hammer swatted at them

>

> i'll look for the staff build and will follow up with you. During the meantime, let me start with this one- D/D Thief 15k+/+2 shotting with +1 shotting (**build included**)

>

> (by the way, Yes it is current video- April 2020)

> - a lot of deaths but its a showcase of Thief high burst damage output capability )

>

>

>

> **'In the end, there it is....Truth!!'**

>

 

Burn fall onto mist urself build a dp dardevil with as much power as u can and do a backstab, ull see for urself burst is pathetic now. No more other people vids see for urself man.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Any time I down a necro,ranger etc on thief I have to severely outplay and hit the reaper 100x more than it does me and sometimes no matter what cant get their hp down enough. I often how trash players have to be to still complain about a class that has to hit them continually for over a min to down them if there garbage enough not to use their sustain skills. And when u do 1v1 a necro or ranger as examples u hit them 30 times while evading their hits and they get a cc off and stun u and hit u twice and ur dead. Then next time when their not so lucky and thief badly out plays them the trash goes on forums to post how op they are and the team listens to this trash and nerfs them more so the hit with toothpicks while tanks go around with more burst then they have lol. Honestly in few months there be less players and prob like 6 people posting still in pvp section and with this community and team at the helm it won't be a community or much of a pvp game in a short time, hell pops so bad the matchmaking fails hard and at busy time there 6 or 7 people tops in arena lol.

Non of it suprising tho considering the garbage post recently as I dont blame players for not visiting the forums these days.

[Luthan.5236]

I'd like to see a "no pet" mode. With pet I actually mean - besides the ranger pet - all summonable stuff. Mesmer is the most annoying. Imagine having 2 enemy mesmers in a team. Then a necro that uses full set of minions (luckily not many do that) and ranger. Then maybe some guardian also summoning some (temporary) weapons flying around.

 

Sometimes it just feels too much. There should be a limit of 1 summoned thing per player in PvP (besides the ranger pet).

[rng.1024]

> @"Roarshack.4902" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > Step 1: Give them their dodge back

> >

> > Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

> >

> > Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

> >

> > Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

>

> Step 1: I agree

>

> Step 2: Mirrors are a kitten mechanic. You would have to give up all your utility slots to make this viable, at which point it wouldn't be viable. Not to mention mirage cloak last for 1 sec, where distort can protect to the mirage for 4 sec at the cost of 3 clones. This is also on a 50sec CD. The only way mirrors replace distort effectively is if they change how you generate a mirror.

>

> Step 3: This wouldn't work well, see the explanation to Step 2. The problem with IH is that the clones apply the damage, giving Mirage the ability to attack around corners and kite for days. IH should instead empower the Mirage ambush based on how many clones are up, similar to a shatter, but ONLY the Mirage ambush applies the damage. That would mean no more attacking around corners or doing damage while cc'd + Mirage Cloak, the Mirage would need LOS on the target for it to take effect. The clones should still do the animation, since that plays into the Mesmer fantasy of being confusing.

>

> Step 4: Vigor up time makes sense in the Mirage line since the whole spec relies on Ambush as a core mechanic. The issue is that Mirage needs dodge for both Offense and Defense, the whole design would need to change to justify reducing Vigor up time without crippling the spec. It's why giving them only one dodge was such a huge nerf. My suggestion for IH would probably solve this to a certain degree, being able to dodge defensively even while CC'd and still apply damage via IH clone ambush is too strong. Its essentially getting a two for one special.

 

I'm not sure you are getting the intent of the first 2 bullet points:

 

To take away Distortion as a **defensive** mechanic which can:

- Be cast while stunned

- Be cast while standing still

- Last for up to 4 seconds

- No counterplay

 

And replace it with Mirrors as an **offensive** mechanic which can:

- Be walked over

- Lasts longer than a dodge

- Can't be used when stunned

- Requires preparation

- Lots of counterplay.

 

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't increase ways to make mirrors, and god forbid you actually have to take an **elite spec skill** to improve your **elite spec mechanic**.

 

But if you still think a spec with 2 dodges (who can still use other traitlines for vigor uptime) and 4 mirrors (equivalent to 5,25 dodges, can have more) require more vigor AND a 4 second distort on top.. there's no point discussing balance with you.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> I'd like to see a "no pet" mode. With pet I actually mean - besides the ranger pet - all summonable stuff. Mesmer is the most annoying. Imagine having 2 enemy mesmers in a team. Then a necro that uses full set of minions (luckily not many do that) and ranger. Then maybe some guardian also summoning some (temporary) weapons flying around.

>

> Sometimes it just feels too much. There should be a limit of 1 summoned thing per player in PvP (besides the ranger pet).

 

Yeah why play a summoner class? It's easy to just summon stuff and /sleep on the ground.

Limit mesmer to 1 clones, necro and ele to 1 minions, ranger to 1 spirit, guardian to 1 spirit weapon, thief to 1 thieves guild member, renegade to 1 warband member and engineer to 1 turret.

 

Very high IQ

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"Roarshack.4902" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > Step 1: Give them their dodge back

> > >

> > > Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

> > >

> > > Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

> > >

> > > Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

> >

> > Step 1: I agree

> >

> > Step 2: Mirrors are a kitten mechanic. You would have to give up all your utility slots to make this viable, at which point it wouldn't be viable. Not to mention mirage cloak last for 1 sec, where distort can protect to the mirage for 4 sec at the cost of 3 clones. This is also on a 50sec CD. The only way mirrors replace distort effectively is if they change how you generate a mirror.

> >

> > Step 3: This wouldn't work well, see the explanation to Step 2. The problem with IH is that the clones apply the damage, giving Mirage the ability to attack around corners and kite for days. IH should instead empower the Mirage ambush based on how many clones are up, similar to a shatter, but ONLY the Mirage ambush applies the damage. That would mean no more attacking around corners or doing damage while cc'd + Mirage Cloak, the Mirage would need LOS on the target for it to take effect. The clones should still do the animation, since that plays into the Mesmer fantasy of being confusing.

> >

> > Step 4: Vigor up time makes sense in the Mirage line since the whole spec relies on Ambush as a core mechanic. The issue is that Mirage needs dodge for both Offense and Defense, the whole design would need to change to justify reducing Vigor up time without crippling the spec. It's why giving them only one dodge was such a huge nerf. My suggestion for IH would probably solve this to a certain degree, being able to dodge defensively even while CC'd and still apply damage via IH clone ambush is too strong. Its essentially getting a two for one special.

>

> I'm not sure you are getting the intent of the first 2 bullet points:

>

> To take away Distortion as a **defensive** mechanic which can:

> - Be cast while stunned

> - Be cast while standing still

> - Last for up to 4 seconds

> - No counterplay

>

> And replace it with Mirrors as an **offensive** mechanic which can:

> - Be walked over

> - Lasts longer than a dodge

> - Can't be used when stunned

> - Requires preparation

> - Lots of counterplay.

>

> Now I'm not saying we shouldn't increase ways to make mirrors, and god forbid you actually have to take an **elite spec skill** to improve your **elite spec mechanic**.

>

> But if you still think a spec with 2 dodges (who can still use other traitlines for vigor uptime) and 4 mirrors (equivalent to 5,25 dodges, can have more) require more vigor AND a 4 second distort on top.. there's no point discussing balance with you.

 

lol

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"Roarshack.4902" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > Step 1: Give them their dodge back

> > >

> > > Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

> > >

> > > Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

> > >

> > > Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

> >

> > Step 1: I agree

> >

> > Step 2: Mirrors are a kitten mechanic. You would have to give up all your utility slots to make this viable, at which point it wouldn't be viable. Not to mention mirage cloak last for 1 sec, where distort can protect to the mirage for 4 sec at the cost of 3 clones. This is also on a 50sec CD. The only way mirrors replace distort effectively is if they change how you generate a mirror.

> >

> > Step 3: This wouldn't work well, see the explanation to Step 2. The problem with IH is that the clones apply the damage, giving Mirage the ability to attack around corners and kite for days. IH should instead empower the Mirage ambush based on how many clones are up, similar to a shatter, but ONLY the Mirage ambush applies the damage. That would mean no more attacking around corners or doing damage while cc'd + Mirage Cloak, the Mirage would need LOS on the target for it to take effect. The clones should still do the animation, since that plays into the Mesmer fantasy of being confusing.

> >

> > Step 4: Vigor up time makes sense in the Mirage line since the whole spec relies on Ambush as a core mechanic. The issue is that Mirage needs dodge for both Offense and Defense, the whole design would need to change to justify reducing Vigor up time without crippling the spec. It's why giving them only one dodge was such a huge nerf. My suggestion for IH would probably solve this to a certain degree, being able to dodge defensively even while CC'd and still apply damage via IH clone ambush is too strong. Its essentially getting a two for one special.

>

> I'm not sure you are getting the intent of the first 2 bullet points:

>

> To take away Distortion as a **defensive** mechanic which can:

> - Be cast while stunned

> - Be cast while standing still

> - Last for up to 4 seconds

> - No counterplay

>

> And replace it with Mirrors as an **offensive** mechanic which can:

> - Be walked over

> - Lasts longer than a dodge

> - Can't be used when stunned

> - Requires preparation

> - Lots of counterplay.

>

> Now I'm not saying we shouldn't increase ways to make mirrors, and god forbid you actually have to take an **elite spec skill** to improve your **elite spec mechanic**.

>

> But if you still think a spec with 2 dodges (who can still use other traitlines for vigor uptime) and 4 mirrors (equivalent to 5,25 dodges, can have more) require more vigor AND a 4 second distort on top.. there's no point discussing balance with you.

 

For starters Mirrors last as long as a dodge. Not longer. 0.75 seconds.

 

So even with Desert Distortion and 3 clones that provides 2.25 seconds of evasion. Not 5.25s.

 

Second if you replaced Distortion with a skill that spawns a mirror it would need to have a cooldown below 12 seconds to equal the defensive up time of Distortion. And that doesn't even cover the loss of invulnerability protecting you from conditions, the lost of your instant emergency defensive skill, the fact that you actually run over to the mirror. Mirrors are often a nice bonus to a skill, but they're a weak mechanic on their own. There's a reason dragon hunters never ran the trap that gives them pick ups that grant aegis, it doesn't matter how much pick ups anet shove into it. At the end of the day Mirrors are a less good and efficient way certain healing / utility skills immediately put you into evade like Withdraw, Roll For Initiative, Bulls Charge, and Lightning Reflexes do.

 

Third none of the ambushes are even good offensively anymore. At all. Even with Infinite Horizon. Oh boy I did a 3 Clone Axe Ambush for 600 damage oh boy.

 

Third does anyone actually care about mesmer/mirage as this really noxious thing ruining the game mode? The best mesmer build right now is the Misha Mirage build. A build which has basically no winning 1v1s and is strong entirely as a +1 build and portal. It's damage is also very, very low compared to almost everything else out there.

[viquing.8254]

Did he know that since the one dodge, nearly everyone take Signet of illusions to compensate the dodge loss by doubling distortion ?

 

Now to complete about distortion :

* It's clone dependant (hello chrono) and it consumes your clones.

* It disable point contribution. Which in conquest is weaker than other class who block/evade/blind/aoe pressure to sustain.

* It has a good base 50 CD.

 

About desert distortion, if you use melee clone (axe/sword) chances are high the 3 mirrors get insta used because they proc directly on you, which totally nullify this concept. But you need to used this one time to figure it out.

Considering the very low health regeneration (because mesmer isn't supposed to be hit lul, look at misha playing game with perma 20% hp.) and the investment into vigor to be on the bottom side of the evade uptime, I join the lol @"Leonidrex.5649".

Can people actually play a class before doing "mind" suggestions please.

 

The only point which I agree is upgrading back core vigor to be on par with other similar traits.