Let's talk about ranger GS

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > The only thing that didnt make sense from a balance perspective (and buffed GS) is that Attack of Opportunity used to be on Hilt Bash. They moved it to Maul and made Hilt Bash refresh Maul. Kinda strange, but was a solid buff.

> >

> > The block might be too long, I'd prefer it to be 1s shorter and have the cd be a little shorter. The 2nd knockback on GS is obviously a bug and needs a fix.

> >

> > But with CD nerfs all across it, damage nerfs, the removal of crippling throw, it has actually no chase potential on it's own you can actually just W key away from someone with GS and they cant hit you (unless they use superspeed) and its required to be traited to be playable now.

> >

> > GS has always been a good weapon. Hence why I have always used it. But it has been nerfed a few times recently. Although GS 4 is now easier to use It was arguably better before with crippling throw (although the evade was the strongest addition - also necessary given it roots you in place). The CDs also just got a long increase GS block went from 15s to 25s, swoop increased, etc. We also lost the evade frames on autos.

> >

> > Its really a shell of its former self.

> >

> > For the people complaining about GS and also other stuff on ranger. The balance of ranger revolves around WS being too busted.... just like every other complained about Ranger spec ever. Its 1 traitline that gives you access to two great low CD stunbreaks, sustain, and condi clear (the only way to get competitive condi clear, mind you). This allows for ranger to double down on dps lines and still maintain kill potential on things.

> >

> > I think we mostly see GS being used not because it's so strong but because sword was changed and is now too clunky to be good anymore. It provides too many opportunities during pre and after casts on the evades to find much success. And those are the only options for ranger. Sword or greatsword. You cant go double ranged weapons. And dagger main hand has no defense on it.

> >

> > But like this hate for GS seems very strangely placed.

>

> No chase potential wut? Swoop is pretty effective. Cant be perfect at everything lol plus swap to lb, with its damage and range it's great for punishing disengagers lol

 

If you keep pressing W, you're safe from GS. And that's why its often paired with LB.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > The only thing that didnt make sense from a balance perspective (and buffed GS) is that Attack of Opportunity used to be on Hilt Bash. They moved it to Maul and made Hilt Bash refresh Maul. Kinda strange, but was a solid buff.

> > >

> > > The block might be too long, I'd prefer it to be 1s shorter and have the cd be a little shorter. The 2nd knockback on GS is obviously a bug and needs a fix.

> > >

> > > But with CD nerfs all across it, damage nerfs, the removal of crippling throw, it has actually no chase potential on it's own you can actually just W key away from someone with GS and they cant hit you (unless they use superspeed) and its required to be traited to be playable now.

> > >

> > > GS has always been a good weapon. Hence why I have always used it. But it has been nerfed a few times recently. Although GS 4 is now easier to use It was arguably better before with crippling throw (although the evade was the strongest addition - also necessary given it roots you in place). The CDs also just got a long increase GS block went from 15s to 25s, swoop increased, etc. We also lost the evade frames on autos.

> > >

> > > Its really a shell of its former self.

> > >

> > > For the people complaining about GS and also other stuff on ranger. The balance of ranger revolves around WS being too busted.... just like every other complained about Ranger spec ever. Its 1 traitline that gives you access to two great low CD stunbreaks, sustain, and condi clear (the only way to get competitive condi clear, mind you). This allows for ranger to double down on dps lines and still maintain kill potential on things.

> > >

> > > I think we mostly see GS being used not because it's so strong but because sword was changed and is now too clunky to be good anymore. It provides too many opportunities during pre and after casts on the evades to find much success. And those are the only options for ranger. Sword or greatsword. You cant go double ranged weapons. And dagger main hand has no defense on it.

> > >

> > > But like this hate for GS seems very strangely placed.

> >

> > No chase potential wut? Swoop is pretty effective. Cant be perfect at everything lol plus swap to lb, with its damage and range it's great for punishing disengagers lol

>

> If you keep pressing W, you're safe from GS. And that's why its often paired with LB.

 

U serious? Swoop and auto while also pressing w? Or hilt or maul? U make zero sense. If they have a disengage skill after u use swoop ur pets can go a decent range at decent speed to cc them while u range them with lb lol if ur soulbeast have 2 swoops. Kits on weapons have to account for the tools and other weapons kits available to the class or the class would be so broken lol. Rangers chase potential is fine when combining its mobility and long ranged high damage potential. Its mobility definitely doesn't need buffed.

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > The only thing that didnt make sense from a balance perspective (and buffed GS) is that Attack of Opportunity used to be on Hilt Bash. They moved it to Maul and made Hilt Bash refresh Maul. Kinda strange, but was a solid buff.

> > > >

> > > > The block might be too long, I'd prefer it to be 1s shorter and have the cd be a little shorter. The 2nd knockback on GS is obviously a bug and needs a fix.

> > > >

> > > > But with CD nerfs all across it, damage nerfs, the removal of crippling throw, it has actually no chase potential on it's own you can actually just W key away from someone with GS and they cant hit you (unless they use superspeed) and its required to be traited to be playable now.

> > > >

> > > > GS has always been a good weapon. Hence why I have always used it. But it has been nerfed a few times recently. Although GS 4 is now easier to use It was arguably better before with crippling throw (although the evade was the strongest addition - also necessary given it roots you in place). The CDs also just got a long increase GS block went from 15s to 25s, swoop increased, etc. We also lost the evade frames on autos.

> > > >

> > > > Its really a shell of its former self.

> > > >

> > > > For the people complaining about GS and also other stuff on ranger. The balance of ranger revolves around WS being too busted.... just like every other complained about Ranger spec ever. Its 1 traitline that gives you access to two great low CD stunbreaks, sustain, and condi clear (the only way to get competitive condi clear, mind you). This allows for ranger to double down on dps lines and still maintain kill potential on things.

> > > >

> > > > I think we mostly see GS being used not because it's so strong but because sword was changed and is now too clunky to be good anymore. It provides too many opportunities during pre and after casts on the evades to find much success. And those are the only options for ranger. Sword or greatsword. You cant go double ranged weapons. And dagger main hand has no defense on it.

> > > >

> > > > But like this hate for GS seems very strangely placed.

> > >

> > > No chase potential wut? Swoop is pretty effective. Cant be perfect at everything lol plus swap to lb, with its damage and range it's great for punishing disengagers lol

> >

> > If you keep pressing W, you're safe from GS. And that's why its often paired with LB.

>

> U serious? Swoop and auto while also pressing w? Or hilt or maul? U make zero sense. If they have a disengage skill after u use swoop ur pets can go a decent range at decent speed to cc them while u range them with lb lol if ur soulbeast have 2 swoops. Kits on weapons have to account for the tools and other weapons kits available to the class or the class would be so broken lol. Rangers chase potential is fine when combining its mobility and long ranged high damage potential. Its mobility definitely doesn't need buffed.

 

Due to the aftercast of swoop and hilt bash rooting you when using it, you can't hit someone running away, you also lose ground making them often able to get away from your autos and even maul. But again, thats GS not having chase potential, which is why we use pets and LB and other things like traits to make up for that.

[Eurantien.4632]

I could understand the hate when (traited) swoop was 8s CD block was 12s CD, each of the bugged knockback hit for like 4k. And maul was doing like 40% more damage than it does now.

 

It feels much clunkier now and is honestly fine.

 

This is just another thread that wants to nerf rangers without understanding the root of the balance problems around ranger.

[Leonidrex.5649]

for every ranger main thinking rangers chase potential is bad I invite you to try and chase kill anything with mesmer staff :D

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> for every ranger main thinking rangers chase potential is bad I invite you to try and chase kill anything with mesmer staff :D

 

For every main out there thinking ranger chase potential is good, I invite you to try and chase kill anything with ranger daggers

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > for every ranger main thinking rangers chase potential is bad I invite you to try and chase kill anything with mesmer staff :D

>

> For every main out there thinking ranger chase potential is good, I invite you to try and chase kill anything with ranger daggers

 

That's the problem tho a lot of us have used swoop to gap close and lb to finish of fleeing opponents, often so..

Ranger daggers? So now were talking about ranger daggers? So many classes have weapon kits without mobility built into then. Rangers lucky he has such a versatile weapon with gs to pair with a high damage high ranged(highest in game) weapon in lb. Imagine how broken rangers chase ability would be with one weapon having great instead of good mobility on gs and the dps and range it has on swap to lb lol.

Really seems like u want ranger to be broken asf.

[shadowpass.4236]

Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

 

1. D/F LR Weaver

2. Demo Prot Holo

3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

4. D/P Daredevil

5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

6. Condi Mirage

7. Condi Herald

8. (insert most condi builds here)

9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

 

It also struggles if hit by Magebane Tether in the Spellbreaker matchup. That goes without saying that SPB should have relatively little issues killing and resustaining off of the pets.

 

However, Core Ranger will perform better against builds that don't have any sort of damage mitigation and against players that cannot consistently avoid the knockbacks and damage skills like Maul and specific pet attacks.

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > for every ranger main thinking rangers chase potential is bad I invite you to try and chase kill anything with mesmer staff :D

> >

> > For every main out there thinking ranger chase potential is good, I invite you to try and chase kill anything with ranger daggers

>

> That's the problem tho a lot of us have used swoop to gap close and lb to finish of fleeing opponents, often so..

> Ranger daggers? So now were talking about ranger daggers? So many classes have weapon kits without mobility built into then. Rangers lucky he has such a versatile weapon with gs to pair with a high damage high ranged(highest in game) weapon in lb. Imagine how broken rangers chase ability would be with one weapon having great instead of good mobility on gs and the dps and range it has on swap to lb lol.

> Really seems like u want ranger to be broken asf.

 

I was just pointing out to our friend Leonidrex that mesmer staff has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, or this conversation.

 

You're right, ranger gs and lb is a strong pair. Fortunately for everyone, LoS exists, and ranger doesn't have teleports or any meaningful way of dealing with projectile hate. Which means this combo does have counterplay.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > for every ranger main thinking rangers chase potential is bad I invite you to try and chase kill anything with mesmer staff :D

> > >

> > > For every main out there thinking ranger chase potential is good, I invite you to try and chase kill anything with ranger daggers

> >

> > That's the problem tho a lot of us have used swoop to gap close and lb to finish of fleeing opponents, often so..

> > Ranger daggers? So now were talking about ranger daggers? So many classes have weapon kits without mobility built into then. Rangers lucky he has such a versatile weapon with gs to pair with a high damage high ranged(highest in game) weapon in lb. Imagine how broken rangers chase ability would be with one weapon having great instead of good mobility on gs and the dps and range it has on swap to lb lol.

> > Really seems like u want ranger to be broken asf.

>

> I was just pointing out to our friend Leonidrex that mesmer staff has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, or this conversation.

>

> You're right, ranger gs and lb is a strong pair. Fortunately for everyone, LoS exists, and ranger doesn't have teleports or any meaningful way of dealing with projectile hate. Which means this combo does have counterplay.

 

Ahh sry. And ur right los is a counterplay, others exists as well. I personally think both lb and gs are in a great spot as they are and hope for no significant changes as I'd fear I'd be for the worse knowing anet. Neither weapons need buffs or nerfs. Pet damage on a few suspects is another story tho but that's thee only thing I feel is overperforming on ranger at the moment

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

>

> 1. D/F LR Weaver

> 2. Demo Prot Holo

> 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> 4. D/P Daredevil

> 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> 6. Condi Mirage

> 7. Condi Herald

> 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

 

So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

 

On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

 

Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

> >

> > 1. D/F LR Weaver

> > 2. Demo Prot Holo

> > 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> > 4. D/P Daredevil

> > 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> > 6. Condi Mirage

> > 7. Condi Herald

> > 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> > 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

>

> So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

>

> On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

>

> Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

 

I just 1v1'd Helio a day or two ago for a few hours on a few of those builds. Did not record but he used #1, 2, 3, and 7 and I was unable to hold the point or kill any of them. I was also lower on cooldowns than him at any given moment because all of those builds have way more sustained pressure and while ranger has a good amount of stunbreaks, our utilities aren't very impactful nor are our weapon skills since he was able to avoid PBS and Mauls consistently. Furthermore, any significant pressure on my pet forced me to go off node and we tested my demo + scholar/knights + dolyak Core Ranger on both Smokescale + Gazelle/Tiger.

 

For the rest of those, they either have a lot of node presence, ways to kill the pet quickly, and/or their kit is a direct counter and can reapply condis like blind and weakness faster than we can clear on ourselves (much less our pets who don't condi clear at all).

 

It doesn't matter how much you guys think ranger is OP. The class has a little bit of everything and can do o.k. in 1v1s when people don't avoid the bursts. Birds and tigers could do with a damage nerf and survivability buff. However, ranger is still trash competitively and will continue to be a poor option to pick against players that have a brain and know how to dodge, LoS, and can kill the pet without dying to it (lol) or the player. It does fine in ranked because most people are pretty bad or just never put it any effort into learning how rangers work.

 

If you want some quick examples:

 

>! Here's Naru's core necro vs. the build:

>!

>!

>! And here's me using my brain against another core ranger:

>!

>!

>! Me shutting Helio's ranger down for an entire match just by keeping his pets dead:

>!

 

etc. etc.

[Shuriken.6738]

ranger gs is like warrior gs, shield and hammer all in one weapon just no f1, but pets make up for that 4head

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Holy eff' is ranger still being complained about? Almost anyone nukes ranger in melee without the block. It's a hit-and-run -type of weapon. Claiming it's "outstandingly best" out of all Greatswords (or 2-handed weapons) is just plain silly. Everything it has it of long cast time, and easily dodgeable, interruptible and predictable.

 

This is an L2P-issue. Seriously.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

> > >

> > > 1. D/F LR Weaver

> > > 2. Demo Prot Holo

> > > 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> > > 4. D/P Daredevil

> > > 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> > > 6. Condi Mirage

> > > 7. Condi Herald

> > > 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> > > 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

> >

> > So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

> >

> > On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

> >

> > Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

>

> I just 1v1'd Helio a day or two ago for a few hours on a few of those builds. Did not record but he used #1, 2, 3, and 7 and I was unable to hold the point or kill any of them. I was also lower on cooldowns than him at any given moment because all of those builds have way more sustained pressure and while ranger has a good amount of stunbreaks, our utilities aren't very impactful nor are our weapon skills since he was able to avoid PBS and Mauls consistently. Furthermore, any significant pressure on my pet forced me to go off node and we tested my demo + scholar/knights + dolyak Core Ranger on both Smokescale + Gazelle/Tiger.

>

> For the rest of those, they either have a lot of node presence, ways to kill the pet quickly, and/or their kit is a direct counter and can reapply condis like blind and weakness faster than we can clear on ourselves (much less our pets who don't condi clear at all).

>

> It doesn't matter how much you guys think ranger is OP. The class has a little bit of everything and can do o.k. in 1v1s when people don't avoid the bursts. Birds and tigers could do with a damage nerf and survivability buff. However, ranger is still trash competitively and will continue to be a poor option to pick against players that have a brain and know how to dodge, LoS, and can kill the pet without dying to it (lol) or the player. It does fine in ranked because most people are pretty bad or just never put it any effort into learning how rangers work.

>

> If you want some quick examples:

>

> >! Here's Naru's core necro vs. the build:

> >!

> >!

> >! And here's me using my brain against another core ranger:

> >!

> >!

> >! Me shutting Helio's ranger down for an entire match just by keeping his pets dead:

> >!

>

> etc. etc.

 

Those clips... showing some low gold (Im basing these on EU, where I play) level gameplay from the rangers you beat, and then a Gof of PvP outplaying a dual bird meme ranger that doesn't know when to petswap or when to run(that's hardly falling into the category of "considering players of equal skill of conquest" which you started your post with).

The rangers(or any class for that matter) that give me trouble are leagues above all this. I can play better ranger than these folks (and I can't play ranger at all, I just know what the skills do).

So yeah, people who can't even reliably be plat 2/3 on ranger cannot play it well. Big surprise. Core ranger bad - confirmed.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Well I play slb very often and last night my gazelle hit someone for 11.5 I, was a ele but still that's a lot for a pet burst even on a light armor class. He commented in chat and I replied I don't disagree lol.

Gs on ranger is not the problem, leave it alone.

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

> > > >

> > > > 1. D/F LR Weaver

> > > > 2. Demo Prot Holo

> > > > 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> > > > 4. D/P Daredevil

> > > > 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> > > > 6. Condi Mirage

> > > > 7. Condi Herald

> > > > 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> > > > 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

> > >

> > > So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

> > >

> > > On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

> > >

> > > Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

> >

> > I just 1v1'd Helio a day or two ago for a few hours on a few of those builds. Did not record but he used #1, 2, 3, and 7 and I was unable to hold the point or kill any of them. I was also lower on cooldowns than him at any given moment because all of those builds have way more sustained pressure and while ranger has a good amount of stunbreaks, our utilities aren't very impactful nor are our weapon skills since he was able to avoid PBS and Mauls consistently. Furthermore, any significant pressure on my pet forced me to go off node and we tested my demo + scholar/knights + dolyak Core Ranger on both Smokescale + Gazelle/Tiger.

> >

> > For the rest of those, they either have a lot of node presence, ways to kill the pet quickly, and/or their kit is a direct counter and can reapply condis like blind and weakness faster than we can clear on ourselves (much less our pets who don't condi clear at all).

> >

> > It doesn't matter how much you guys think ranger is OP. The class has a little bit of everything and can do o.k. in 1v1s when people don't avoid the bursts. Birds and tigers could do with a damage nerf and survivability buff. However, ranger is still trash competitively and will continue to be a poor option to pick against players that have a brain and know how to dodge, LoS, and can kill the pet without dying to it (lol) or the player. It does fine in ranked because most people are pretty bad or just never put it any effort into learning how rangers work.

> >

> > If you want some quick examples:

> >

> > >! Here's Naru's core necro vs. the build:

> > >!

> > >!

> > >! And here's me using my brain against another core ranger:

> > >!

> > >!

> > >! Me shutting Helio's ranger down for an entire match just by keeping his pets dead:

> > >!

> >

> > etc. etc.

>

> Those clips... showing some low gold (Im basing these on EU, where I play) level gameplay from the rangers you beat, and then a Gof of PvP outplaying a dual bird meme ranger that doesn't know when to petswap or when to run(that's hardly falling into the category of "considering players of equal skill of conquest" which you started your post with).

> The rangers(or any class for that matter) that give me trouble are leagues above all this. I can play better ranger than these folks (and I can't play ranger at all, I just know what the skills do).

> So yeah, people who can't even reliably be plat 2/3 on ranger cannot play it well. Big surprise. Core ranger bad - confirmed.

>

 

The last one is me vs. the side noder for Team USA.

 

It's really not hard to fight against rangers and shut them down. Hence why ranger is rarely seen in tournaments. When people are intelligent, the class just doesn't do anything. It doesn't have enough sustained pressure, the burst and pets are telegraphed, the knockbacks are easy to bait out and dodge, it gets hard shut down in team fights by projectile denial, weakness, blind, and aegis, condis just destroy the pet because it can't clear and it either forces the ranger to leave node (aka you get free decap even if you don't have knockbacks) or blow their heal early, etc. etc. Not to mention that rangers are more effective in 1v1s and smaller fights but we lack support or value in team fights asides from some damage if mauls or rapid fires go through. That's also why ranger makes a better roamer than a team fighter in WvW. The only thing a ranger is really good for in tournies is decapping sides if the enemy doesn't dodge lb4/bait the GS4 out.

 

And these strategies work the same regardless of what level ranger you're facing. Kill the pet after pet swap, dodge/bait the knockbacks, if you get interrupted, stunbreak if you need to dodge a burst that's following it.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

> >

> > 1. D/F LR Weaver

> > 2. Demo Prot Holo

> > 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> > 4. D/P Daredevil

> > 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> > 6. Condi Mirage

> > 7. Condi Herald

> > 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> > 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

>

> So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

>

> On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

>

> Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

 

The last time someone made such a claim they decided to duel and indeed core necro couldn't do jack vs core ranger. You can find the thread easy enough and I think it's poor form to "rub someone's face in it" if they were willing to duel over the claim.

[Odik.4587]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > Considering players of equal skill in Conquest, Core Ranger will lose to:

> > >

> > > 1. D/F LR Weaver

> > > 2. Demo Prot Holo

> > > 3. Menders Symbol Core Guard

> > > 4. D/P Daredevil

> > > 5. Core Necro (realistically, all necro specializations could deal with ranger)

> > > 6. Condi Mirage

> > > 7. Condi Herald

> > > 8. (insert most condi builds here)

> > > 9. (insert any build that can kill the pets)

> >

> > So basicly ranger cannot win vs. anything. Not even scourge. Well I guess there is no balance problem then. All those rangers beating everything effortlessly on the sides are just figments of our imagination. Pets doing 6-10K damage attacks aren't a problem either. Why would they be. Just dodge. Point Blank Shot, Rapidfire, pet F2 command, Maul, Hiltbash, second pets F2, Maul again... to count all the skills you have to **absolutely** avoid I only need 2 hands, so if you get hit by any of them it's clearly an L2P problem.

> >

> > On a serious note, I'd love to see how you win against a core ranger on those builds you listed above. Especially on scourge, because I'm pretty sure core ranger hardcounters scourge.

> >

> > Core ranger as a whole is overtuned in this meta. Given how Longbow/GS kit gives extreme versatility, core ranger can be very slippery and survivable. It has mean pressure and oneshot worthy bursts. I don't mind it being hard to kill, but for something that can almost endlessly juke/outsustain you, turning back and instantly oneshotting you is a bit much. Druid and SB were neutered with some nasty tradeoffs and nerfs(maybe too much so, what is druid even good for at the moment?), but core feels like it's still pre-patch, stuck in the oneshot meta.

>

> The last time someone made such a claim they decided to duel and indeed core necro couldn't do jack vs core ranger. You can find the thread easy enough and I think it's poor form to "rub someone's face in it" if they were willing to duel over the claim.

Someone doesnt want to duel my ranger but I would say I win mesmers/ dp thieves lel/lrod eles/necromancers... (condi rev too after 5 minutes of chasing him kek)

I'm super gifted ranger player /s