Another ranger nerf thread

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > Ok ok ok hold on, let me sum up the claims that we have so far from all of these threads within the past month:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Everything a Ranger Pet does deals anywhere between 6k and 12k damage. In rare events, autos only hit for 2k and 3k.

> > > > Bird autos on light armor crit for ~3800 on autos

> > > > >! 

> > > > >! I'm on knight amulet 1x1'd lrod weeber, noticed this 7000 swoop from bird?This 2200+1800 slash'es its 1 auto with both crits :)

> > > You stacked all possible modifiers on your owl. Now take a screenshot without any of them and compare. Also who runs berserker on a weaver?

> > > > > 2. Ranger Pets have raid boss like sustain values.

> > > > Contrary to shadow something bird armor isnt 1600 (as he said lowest armor in the game than anyone using bers amulet) (spoiler: its about ~2600+, smokescale and gazelle ~3300+)

> > > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet_attributes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet_attributes) Just look at this table. Birds have 1524 and smokescales have 2211 toughness. Add 150 for beastmastery. The only thing that is nearly correct is the rock gazelle with 2898.

> > > > > 3. Ranger Pets are impossible to kite and they are impossible to chase.

> > > > Bird lunge at you from 300 range, opening strike or w/e its called applies cripple on ranger/pet attacks + superspeed/quickness access for both ranger and pet :)

> > > They can't hit a moving target properly even after all improvements and can't condi cleanse. Add chill/cripple or weakness and keep moving and it does almost nothing.

> > > > > 6. The Core Ranger Greatsword is by far the superior weapon kit in the game because it has a block skill.

> > > > It has it all - mobility(packed with leap and evade)/block(with evade->cc flip)/spammable maul/stun(or daze that refresh maul).

> > > Except damage. The only thing that does anything is a modifer stacked maul. Everything else hits like a wet noodle.

> > > > > 7. A dozen Core Ranger complaint threads have been made within the past month, but not a single thread has been written about Protection Holosmith, despite almost an entirely unanimous agreement from all players that Protection Holosmith is equal to or greater in strength than the Core Ranger in all categories. Weird eh? Something to think about in the way of biased expectations.

> > > > While prot holo being stronger than core ranger, it doesnt have AI eviscarating you with insane damage and ranger can do w/e.

> > > > It doesnt mean ranger should be left alone because prot holo exist, both needs nerfs.

> > >

> > > Ranger needs a marksmenship and damage modifier rework. Then look at the damage that is left and adjust accordingly.

> > Toughness =/= armor. I had various amulets and my pet still took less damage than me which is why I say ARMOR.

>

> That's bologna. You can seriously heal through a full Trap DH spam on a Knight's Core Ranger with Troll Unguent and Protect Me.

>

No Odik is right, Bird and Tiger has around 2604 armor, Gazelle has around 3974.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > Ok ok ok hold on, let me sum up the claims that we have so far from all of these threads within the past month:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Everything a Ranger Pet does deals anywhere between 6k and 12k damage. In rare events, autos only hit for 2k and 3k.

> > > > > Bird autos on light armor crit for ~3800 on autos

> > > > > >! 

> > > > > >! I'm on knight amulet 1x1'd lrod weeber, noticed this 7000 swoop from bird?This 2200+1800 slash'es its 1 auto with both crits :)

> > > > You stacked all possible modifiers on your owl. Now take a screenshot without any of them and compare. Also who runs berserker on a weaver?

> > > > > > 2. Ranger Pets have raid boss like sustain values.

> > > > > Contrary to shadow something bird armor isnt 1600 (as he said lowest armor in the game than anyone using bers amulet) (spoiler: its about ~2600+, smokescale and gazelle ~3300+)

> > > > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet_attributes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet_attributes) Just look at this table. Birds have 1524 and smokescales have 2211 toughness. Add 150 for beastmastery. The only thing that is nearly correct is the rock gazelle with 2898.

> > > > > > 3. Ranger Pets are impossible to kite and they are impossible to chase.

> > > > > Bird lunge at you from 300 range, opening strike or w/e its called applies cripple on ranger/pet attacks + superspeed/quickness access for both ranger and pet :)

> > > > They can't hit a moving target properly even after all improvements and can't condi cleanse. Add chill/cripple or weakness and keep moving and it does almost nothing.

> > > > > > 6. The Core Ranger Greatsword is by far the superior weapon kit in the game because it has a block skill.

> > > > > It has it all - mobility(packed with leap and evade)/block(with evade->cc flip)/spammable maul/stun(or daze that refresh maul).

> > > > Except damage. The only thing that does anything is a modifer stacked maul. Everything else hits like a wet noodle.

> > > > > > 7. A dozen Core Ranger complaint threads have been made within the past month, but not a single thread has been written about Protection Holosmith, despite almost an entirely unanimous agreement from all players that Protection Holosmith is equal to or greater in strength than the Core Ranger in all categories. Weird eh? Something to think about in the way of biased expectations.

> > > > > While prot holo being stronger than core ranger, it doesnt have AI eviscarating you with insane damage and ranger can do w/e.

> > > > > It doesnt mean ranger should be left alone because prot holo exist, both needs nerfs.

> > > >

> > > > Ranger needs a marksmenship and damage modifier rework. Then look at the damage that is left and adjust accordingly.

> > > Toughness =/= armor. I had various amulets and my pet still took less damage than me which is why I say ARMOR.

> >

> > That's bologna. You can seriously heal through a full Trap DH spam on a Knight's Core Ranger with Troll Unguent and Protect Me.

> >

> No Odik is right, Bird and Tiger has around 2604 armor, Gazelle has around 3974.

 

When did I say they didn't?

 

I commented on him stating that "His pet tanks harder than his Core Ranger" which is such a ridiculous claim that I'm not even going to take the time to explain why that is a ridiculous claim.

 

Now you guys are creating arguments about things that I never argued. Turn it down a notch.

 

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> power mirage was somehow playble at NA by Zeromis. After 1 evade yoinked, ofc its ridiculously weak, like you dont need to be a Sherlock to figure it out.

 

Yeah yeah yeah, and I can still beat most people, even top players, in 1v1s with a Druid. But that doesn't make it viable now does it?

 

Besides that, how you gonna take the top Mesmer/Mirage player in NA and use him as a standard for comparison of Mirage balance, after all of the "We shouldn't balance around top play" comments. Make up your minds. Is top play performance a standard for balance or not? Kind of looks like people just change what they say to suit their agenda.

 

 

 

[memausz.7264]

The thing with ranger is its too rewarding for the limited amount of counterplay it has. It has access to two mauls with Greatsword, it's range is unparalleled on longbow (which also comes with a free CC, access to stealth, and a long-term AOE that covers an entire node).... at least Dragonhunter longbow has some range limits on some of its skills, including the auto, which makes counter play a lot more conceivable at all levels, top tier and lower tier. Shortbow is also pretty rewarding for not that much effort - a 3 second daze/stun, a 12-second bleeding stack w/ immobilization, which they then combine with binding roots and additional pet immob skills to make it impossible to dodge without a cleanse... it's way too rewarding for what it is. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think frame-perfect gameplay and micro-mangement should be necessary to do well in the competitive scene. To be top of leaderboard, yes. But to be a good player? No, with maybe a bit of an exception for some thief builds. Because then you're excluding rotation, engagement decisions, disengagement decisions, kiting decisions... it's more than just pure mechanics (outside of 2v2 deathmatch). And rangers right now have mechanics that excel beyond a reasonable threshold for balanced gameplay. Heck, even double axe gameplay is pretty strong because Quickness > Pull > Immob > Worldly Defense > Dead.

 

And Murshi, I once defended holosmith blindly - and then I realized... ya know what? My build was overtuned. Explosive entrance really could use a nerf... split it into two applications at 50% each maybe...

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

 

Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> How about some nerf threads about Main- and Offhand dagger while we are at it?

Well that is the only missing whining thread of the month. We already have threads whining about ranger downstate, lighting reflexes, pets have HP , mauls still hit, longbow range, ranger has heals, pets hit some targets, ranger has access to stunbreaks, ranger has access to heals, ranger can do some damage.

 

If we were lo listen to this salty kids we would need to transform the ranger into a warrior.

 

[Tayga.3192]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> longbow range,

 

Which has a bugged (1.8k-1.9k) range since who knows when

 

While mesmer has bugged (less damage than intended) mirror blade, double bugged power block (3s icd, doesn't increase maul's CD).

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > longbow range,

>

> Which has a bugged (1.8k-1.9k) range since who knows when

>

> While mesmer has bugged (less damage than intended) mirror blade, double bugged power block (3s icd, doesn't increase maul's CD).

 

Good thing mesmer is immune to projectile hate while ranger isnt then!

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> Good thing mesmer is immune to projectile hate while ranger isnt then!

 

Irrelevant (not saying you are correct), but bugs are bugs.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > longbow range,

> >

> > Which has a bugged (1.8k-1.9k) range since who knows when

> >

> > While mesmer has bugged (less damage than intended) mirror blade, double bugged power block (3s icd, doesn't increase maul's CD).

>

> Good thing mesmer is immune to projectile hate while ranger isnt then!

 

there is a trade off for that.

better range + better dps against "aoe" + proj hate immunity, it just happens to be also bugged and go way over intended range.

not to mention obstructed bugs all beam weapons face, projectiles have it better in that aspect.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > longbow range,

>

> Which has a bugged (1.8k-1.9k) range since who knows when

>

> While mesmer has bugged (less damage than intended) mirror blade, double bugged power block (3s icd, doesn't increase maul's CD).

 

But the range is not bugged... It's a bow feature comfirmed from the devs.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> But the range is not bugged... It's a bow feature comfirmed from the devs.

 

Really? I want the source on that.

It's pretty dumb to be honest, then fix the tooltip range to 1800-1900 on flat ground.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > But the range is not bugged... It's a bow feature comfirmed from the devs.

>

> Really? I want the source on that.

> It's pretty dumb to be honest, then fix the tooltip range to 1800-1900 on flat ground.

 

It's the arching mechanic that is giving the lb projectiles the boost in range, it's a feature. Think of it as the documented range is when the arrow starts to drop.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> It's the arching mechanic that is giving the lb projectiles the boost in range, it's a feature. Think of it as the documented range is when the arrow starts to drop.

 

Why it doesn't say that on tooltip? Can I get a source on where/when do devs say this?

Is it the same with thief stolen skill from warriors (doesn't say reflects projectiles, but it does), bad tooltip?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Look up projectiles in gw2 wiki, states will fire increased distances when fired from heights. So what causes this to happen will also happen from flat ground to way lesser degree of course.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Look up projectiles in gw2 wiki, states will fire increased distances when fired from heights. So what causes this to happen will also happen from flat ground to way lesser degree of course.

 

its bull excuse not a feature, most other projectiles fizzle out, they just made it and forgot about it and are too lazy to fix it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Look up projectiles in gw2 wiki, states will fire increased distances when fired from heights. So what causes this to happen will also happen from flat ground to way lesser degree of course.

>

> its bull excuse not a feature, most other projectiles fizzle out, they just made it and forgot about it and are too lazy to fix it.

 

Ok ??? Makes sense arrows would arc no?

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Look up projectiles in gw2 wiki, states will fire increased distances when fired from heights. So what causes this to happen will also happen from flat ground to way lesser degree of course.

> >

> > its bull excuse not a feature, most other projectiles fizzle out, they just made it and forgot about it and are too lazy to fix it.

>

> Ok ??? Makes sense arrows would arc no?

 

makes sense for every projectile to arc and go over its intended range, there is no logical reason why LB can go over its intended range and other projectiles cant, expacially since LB has the longest range in the game already

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> gw2 wiki

You mean, the wiki that says Lightning Rod is 1.5 coefficient when in reality it is not?

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Ok ??? Makes sense arrows would arc no?

 

Sure, they can easily make the arc start earlier (shortening the base "non arcing" range) and end on 1500ish.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > gw2 wiki

> You mean, the wiki that says Lightning Rod is 1.5 coefficient when in reality it is not?

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Ok ??? Makes sense arrows would arc no?

>

> Sure, they can easily make the arc start earlier (shortening the base "non arcing" range) and end on 1500ish.

 

Hey not arguing, u asked and I answered. Says projectiles will have increased range when released from hight, just google gw2 projectiles and wiki should come up.

As to what u said about arcing earlier so full range is what's in tool top, sure that makes sense to, than maybe in wvw wall warrior rangers and npc's would f off from shotting me across the map with there arrows.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

>

> Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

 

No neither of them wins that MU in reality, just whoever has more knockback. Which if u arent playing bad is always Ranger so ranger slowly win if skill is very equal and in the case of ranger being more skilled the MU isn’t even close

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

> >

> > Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

>

> No neither of them wins that MU in reality, just whoever has more knockback. Which if u arent playing bad is always Ranger so ranger slowly win if skill is very equal and in the case of ranger being more skilled the MU isn’t even close

 

You're wrong. But ok.

[Rukia.4802]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > Ok ok ok hold on, let me sum up the claims that we have so far from all of these threads within the past month:

> >

> > 1. Everything a Ranger Pet does deals anywhere between 6k and 12k damage. In rare events, autos only hit for 2k and 3k.

> > 2. Ranger Pets have raid boss like sustain values.

> > 3. Ranger Pets are impossible to kite and they are impossible to chase.

> > 4. Apparently Core Rangers have no CD for dead pet swapping.

> > 5. Apparently Core Ranger has mobility & disengage that is equal to a D/P Shadow Arts Daredevil.

> > 6. The Core Ranger Greatsword is by far the superior weapon kit in the game because it has a block skill.

> > 7. A dozen Core Ranger complaint threads have been made within the past month, but not a single thread has been written about Protection Holosmith, despite almost an entirely unanimous agreement from all players that Protection Holosmith is equal to or greater in strength than the Core Ranger in all categories. Weird eh? Something to think about in the way of biased expectations.

>

> Ur last point is true and the reason is people find rangers more annoying to fight than holo regardless whether its more OP or not so they want it nerfed to uselessness. Happens to all classes with annoying mechanics. Thief cuz stealth and tele, mirage cuz obvious reasons and ranger cuz pets and lb range.

 

Really? Ranger isn't even that annoying, mesmer has held that torch for quite a while to the point of being toxic to play against until recently. Many builds have triggered me to the point of not playing in the past but I can't say that ranger has ever been toxic.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

> > >

> > > Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

> >

> > No neither of them wins that MU in reality, just whoever has more knockback. Which if u arent playing bad is always Ranger so ranger slowly win if skill is very equal and in the case of ranger being more skilled the MU isn’t even close

>

> You're wrong. But ok.

 

I highly doubt that unless all prot holos on NA are bad. Against naru I would decap and win in less than a min 10 times in a row, ckod I would win node every time and get kills, so far closest was drydude but I would still slowly get node and have way more hp. I’ve never seen a prot holo win that 1v1 though I’ll admit it has less counters

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > It's the arching mechanic that is giving the lb projectiles the boost in range, it's a feature. Think of it as the documented range is when the arrow starts to drop.

>

> Why it doesn't say that on tooltip? Can I get a source on where/when do devs say this?

> Is it the same with thief stolen skill from warriors (doesn't say reflects projectiles, but it does), bad tooltip?

Ok kids, i think we got the message:

* Ranger is super annoying because it can hit targets farther than average range and also have teh AI which i don't enjoy fighting against to.

 

Again, this is a game feature: Shortbow was also 1200 (1500 with traits) at the begining of the game. And then RP balance devs nerf it. Ranger is supposed to reach that range.

Pet is a ranger mechanic, learn to deal with it. Ranger is supposed to be highly mobile with throwable traps and mobile spirits. the continuous whining and a dev team scared to do a good job even if that meant show the community what their invision was made ranger what it is now. A kitten disgrace of a class.

 

Ranger has lower damage because of that, lower damage in power damage and condi durations.

 

It can not hit for 12K one hit from 1500 range like DE does or 15K for 480 like warrior with just one button stroke.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > It's the arching mechanic that is giving the lb projectiles the boost in range, it's a feature. Think of it as the documented range is when the arrow starts to drop.

> >

> > Why it doesn't say that on tooltip? Can I get a source on where/when do devs say this?

> > Is it the same with thief stolen skill from warriors (doesn't say reflects projectiles, but it does), bad tooltip?

> Ok kids, i think we got the message:

> * Ranger is super annoying because it can hit targets farther than average range and also have teh AI which i don't enjoy fighting against to.

>

> Again, this is a game feature: Shortbow was also 1200 (1500 with traits) at the begining of the game. And then RP balance devs nerf it. Ranger is supposed to reach that range.

> Pet is a ranger mechanic, learn to deal with it. Ranger is supposed to be highly mobile with throwable traps and mobile spirits. the continuous whining and a dev team scared to do a good job even if that meant show the community what their invision was made ranger what it is now. A kitten disgrace of a class.

>

> Ranger has lower damage because of that, lower damage in power damage and condi durations.

>

> It can not hit for 12K one hit from 1500 range like DE does or 15K for 480 like warrior with just one button stroke.

>

>

 

kids defending bugs, the classic :D

thats why many developers dont fix things, they dont have to. they have devoted sheep to defend them anyways